Reloading

DogfoxCork

Surely changing the SI is within the realms of possibility given it's legal on the other side of the border, how does one go about changing an SI?!🤔

civdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120138227#Comment_120138227

That S.I. applies to a store (licenced by local authority), which is for pretty large amounts of explosives (up to 2000Kg). Normally for industrial use (e.g. Irish rail detonator storage).

A registered premises (registered with local authority) would be the more appropriate route for the amounts used in reloading, a registered premises has two sub-types Mode A (up to 90.72Kg) and Mode B (up to 22.68Kg). Most gun-shops are Mode A registered premises.

This is where we need to be up to speed with the appropriate legislation. There's no point telling ourselves it can't be done if we are working off the wrong rules.

Grizzly 45

Having a bunch of sympathetic politicians to your cause would be a great start...Preferably one who is /minister for Justice and has a pair between the legs to want to do this and not be influenced by panicky civil servants whispering about "political consequences" in their ears.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120139356#Comment_120139356

ANNNDDD That's where they kick you with the 1872 act! You as a gun dealer also have to modify your premises to make it also a powder storage facility and register it with the local council and all the paperwork that goes with it. Name me an Irish gun dealer who will spend in today's market a few thousand in going thru this rigamarole for a very questionable market return.

Also, you need to read that act a lot more. As it lays out the conditions under which your ammo must be made.As I said,its fine for industrial purposes,not hobby reloading.But the Govts are not going to change this unless we lobby for change, and I can't see this happening with our customary apathy.

civdef

The paperwork for registering a premises with the local authority is a one page form. Generally speaking, it doesn't involve an inspection from the fire officer.

https://assets.gov.ie/213074/cf925dc6-26eb-4efd-87ff-9a86dec4ffc8.doc

The DoJ look for all gun dealers to have their premises registered as a pre requisite for dealer licencing - but the same doesn't hold in reverse. You don't have to be a dealer to be a registered premises.

I'm fairly familiar with the legislation on this one. That's what's making me wonder why it's seen as such a hurdle.

Grizzly 45

Civ,

if this was easy and not such a hurdle...WHY are we not reloading here??? Simply put it becomes so expensive to do the game isn't worth the candle.

A few years back, I made it a project to see how far I,as a nobody, could get with reloading in Ireland as a private citizen. I reported it here on boards,and after having a chat with the then assistant fire chief of CCC and the DOJ chief range inspector. The technical and financial hurdles of both those acts are impossible for a normal human being with normal means. The building was fine by the fire chief.A disused milking parlour in the middle of nowhere, far away from any of the things mentioned in the 2007 SI.

The first thing he wanted was a fire alarm in the place I was going to reload ammo...Cost 3 thousand Euros!!! Premises modifications to be with both acts compliant appx 10 thousand euros doing the bare minimum!!!

13 K before I even got to even figuring out as Mr G of the DOJ pointed out getting the raw materials into Ireland by ferry and road from NI or then,the UK or mainland Europe legally.THAT is the biggest problem that even Midlands faced on their pilot programme.The shifting of the powder from mainland EU to Ireland. So imagine how much trouble this would be for an individual /or small-time gun dealer.

Think anyone would agree that 13thousand euros buys you a lot of already-made ammo.

Maybe I'm missing something here in this equation.But I think if it was just something simple to get this rolling again here. It would be done a long time ago by people with more money and better connections than I have.

CplCurley

Sorry lads,

Nuts and bolts questions, can I buy primers, powder, bullets and brass in a rfd in Ireland using my gun licence and reload from home? I'm sure the answer is no.

So it seems we need a body to advocate for us. Who is that body and how do we get it represented with membership numbers or signatures.

This thread was started in 2018 and I think we're all aligned bring it in!

Grizzly 45

Nuts and bolts questions, can I buy primers, powder, bullets and brass in a rfd in Ireland using my gun licence and reload from home? I'm sure the answer is no.

Correct answer ...No!

Munsterlad102

More of a theoretical question than a practical one, if you disassembled a round into its component parts, would you need an explosives license for the powder and primer or would they be covered under your firearms certificate? Afterall, the definition of ammunition includes "any ingredient or component part of any such ammunition or missile". If you don't, then surely you could buy powder and primers, provided you stay under your maximum round limit. If you do, then surely you'd need an explosives license for the assembled ammunition.

Another hypothetical, is it legal to disassemble one round and use the powder and primer to assemble another round? IMO you're not manufacturing ammunition because the component parts, are themselves, ammunition. Open to correction though as I'm not that familiar with the provisions and definitions for manufacturing ammunition.

Grizzly 45

Another hypothetical, is it legal to disassemble one round and use the powder and primer to assemble another round? IMO you're not manufacturing ammunition because the component parts, are themselves, ammunition. Open to correction though as I'm not that familiar with the provisions and definitions for manufacturing ammunition.

This is a good one.

As there was a case like this up in the NW[Donegal?] back in the late 1980s that ended up in the district court, about a stalker who was if I remember correctly importing heavier bullets from NI for his then-only legal deer calibre of 22/250 and changing them over on commercially bought rounds. The States argument was it was "manufacturing ammunition",but was dismissed by the judge on the grounds that he was "modifying" the ammo and not creating a fresh round out of brass, powder, primer and a new bullet head.

So as they say there is a "marker" in law on this situation. If I'm right it was I covered in the old Irish Press newspaper.So if anyone knows where those are archived,it would be handy to be able to refer to this as a precedent in the future?

DogfoxCork

I wonder would a petition spark something being brought further for a change.

Bosco105

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120136784#Comment_120136784

Firstly, you can't reload in Ireland, if you belong to the Midlands Shooting Range you can, but since Brexit and UK now none EU, there's a problem getting the componenets. I'm waiting 3 years. We don't reload shotgun shells or 22lr in Ireland.

Regards.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120136517#Comment_120136517

If you are being honest and not in this to fleece fellow shooters. Your course will consist of the following;

A day/ weekend/online course of 90% EU/Irish and UN law on storage, movement and types of explosives and propellants and about 2 hours on how to reload a rifle, pistol, and shotgun shell!!! That's literally the German reloading of ammunition course. And the only country in the Union that seems to have a separate license for this activity.[Ja !Ve love our licensing und der paperwork must be in ze ORDER!]

civdef

That’s exactly what I’d have in mind.

Yep- 100% thinking non- profit on this.

A society of this sort could provide knowledge for beginners of some of the more esoteric subjects too, e.g. case annealing, seating depths etc, etc.

DogfoxCork

That would be amazing, how does one go about setting that up and getting it ok'd by DOJ. I wouldn't think importing components would be a problem from France/Germany with eu licencing once it was ok'd on the Irish side🤔

cosieman

The gunshop in finglas village sportsman.ie applied to be able to reload and got refused despite being a gunshop so i would not hold your breath as a regular bloke.

tonysopprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120154126#Comment_120154126

Falls at the first hurdle by being in a residential/commercial are and not being far enough from a thoroughfare

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120153114#Comment_120153114

The DOJ couldn't care less about the training of the people of this proposed group, as there is no pre-requirements in Irish law for a training course .It would be a self-regulating situation. The only thing they want to know is the who, what, when, where, and how of this organisation bringing in explosive substances[technically nitro powder is a propellant,not an explosive.] and primers into the Irish state, and who will have access to them and where will it be used.

bTW you can own as much reloading equipment as you want here.presses,dies,etc.It's the "raw materials" that will be the problem to get.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120154654#Comment_120154654

Which comes from the 2007 SI manufacture of munitions about location.