Legal ramifications of Dooring

riemann

I've seen a few close calls over the past while,and it is one of my great fears while cycling around Dublin.

My question is who is liable for damage potentially caused to either ones bike or God forbid potential physical injuries?

Is it the car owner? Driver? Individual who opened the door?

If someone was getting out of a taxi for example, it would be harsh to blame the taxi driver for someone else's oversight?

Stay safe out there folks.

Lumen

It's the driver.

They have mirrors. They have a license obtained by formal training. They're operating the vehicle of which the door is a part. They decided to pull over. They have insurance to cover it. In the taxi case, they're a professional who deals with these hazards routinely.

Maybe the insurance company in turn would pursue the passenger (who perhaps had legal cover on their house insurance), but probably not. Since this is Ireland it'd probably be the same company underwriting both policies. :pac:

11 pages if you're interested....

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057459274

Wishbone Ash

The driver.

I was hospitalised after being brought down by a passenger suddenly opening a taxi door in stopped traffic. The passenger stepped over me and continued on his way while the driver accepted liability on the spot.

eagle eye

The driver will always be legally at fault but the cyclist is a fool for being that close to the car.

Captain Red Beard

eagle eye wrote: »

The driver will always be legally at fault but the cyclist is a fool for being that close to the car.

Try harder.

Wishbone Ash

eagle eye wrote: »

The driver will always be legally at fault but the cyclist is a fool for being that close to the car.

So where there is a long line of stopped vehicles, you think cyclists shouldn't utilise an empty cycle track to the left of those vehicles but wait with all the motor vehicles?

I take it you don't cycle.

eagle eye

Wishbone Ash wrote:

So where there is a long line of stopped vehicles, you think cyclists shouldn't utilise an empty cycle track to the left of those vehicles but wait with all the motor vehicles?

Stop like everybody else.

Lumen

Nobody said which side the passenger is getting out.

Wheety

eagle eye wrote: »

Stop like everybody else.

Thanks for confirming you're trolling.

Amirani

skrrob wrote: »

Genuine question:

Not winding up anyone.

If driving a car or motorbike, you are expected to pass parked vehicles with a doors width.

Why is the same not expected of cyclists? Why are they not held to the same rule?

I cycle 10 km to and from work everyday btw, and I'm bolloxed. (New cyclist).

Doesn't apply to cycle lanes, would be completely impractical.

gctest50

Why don't slc do the Dutch Reach ?

Samuel T. Cogley

It's the driver/passenger but there can be contributory negligence on the side of the cyclist depending on various factors which might reduce the award.

RobertFoster

eagle eye wrote: »

Stop like everybody else.

I've often wondered what city traffic would be like if filtering was banned for (motor)bikes. I'm sure roads without segregated cycle lanes would be interesting. Reports of RLJ would probably go down, but sketchy overtakes would increase too.

Weepsie

An awful lot of on road cycle lanes are unfortunately well within a doors width. So when in urban traffic and your passing on the left as expected, you'd occassionally get a passenger leaping out from the left side of a car without checking the lane is clear.

skrrob

skrrob wrote: »

How so? Again, new cyclist here. No different to a motorcyclist?

Similarly, if a cyclist passed too closely and clipped a mirror what would happpen?

I'm nervous as **** cycling, there's awful maniacs out there. People driving on their phones etc.

On a cycle lane you are on the left of the car and may have a kerb on your left , you wouldn't have the space to stay a doors width away from them.

EDIT: Weepsie ninja'd me

Weepsie

skrrob wrote: »

OK. But if I am passing on the right of the car, why should I not be obliged to move out the same way a motorbiker would?

It's complete common sense to do so, but most doorings I hear of are on the left side, or happen on cycle lanes that for some poor design choice have parked cars to the left

Chips Lovell

I don’t think there’s any law obliging cyclists or any other vechicle to pass a certain distance away from parked cars. It’s just good practice to cycle more than door’s width out.

the_pen_turner

i think it has to be on a case by case basis. who hit who. was the door open and the cyclist hit it or did the door hit the passing cyclist .
and balance up whether the cyclist had the right to pass on that side versus the vehicles right to pull in and open its door to elight its passenger.


its very hard to put blame all one way in all cases

Fighting Tao

skrrob wrote: »

Genuine question:

Not winding up anyone.

If driving a car or motorbike, you are expected to pass parked vehicles with a doors width.

Why is the same not expected of cyclists? Why are they not held to the same rule?

I cycle 10 km to and from work everyday btw, and I'm bolloxed. (New cyclist).

If a parked car door is opened when another car is passing and it’s hit then it is the driver of the parked car that is at fault and their insurance pays up. Being expected to do something is not the law.

gctest50

The slc need to open the car door like a normal person :

some attack the inside of the door like a badger

wench

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i think it has to be on a case by case basis. who hit who. was the door open and the cyclist hit it or did the door hit the passing cyclist .
and balance up whether the cyclist had the right to pass on that side versus the vehicles right to pull in and open its door to elight its passenger.


its very hard to put blame all one way in all cases

The ones who pull in properly aren't the problem.
It is when the passenger just hops out while stopped in traffic that you can't anticipate.

riemann

Can anybody quote any official source, or even refer to a particular incident in the news?

Opinions and anecdotes, while amusing, aren't what I was hoping for.

It does appear logical for the fault to lie with the driver, although it's not something I was personally aware of as a driver until now. Im almost certain it wasnt covered when I was taking the driving test.

Weepsie

riemann wrote: »

Can anybody quote any official source, or even refer to a particular incident in the news?

Opinions and anecdotes, while amusing, aren't what I was hoping for.

It does appear logical for the fault to lie with the driver, although it's not something I was personally aware of as a driver until now. Im almost certain it wasnt covered when I was taking the driving test.

Can't find any court cases or rulings, but I doubt very many cases have actually gone to court. I know of one for sure that the insurance company paid out.

It's also one of the very first things your told when learning to drive is to be checking around you, including when getting out of the car. If the way isn't clear, don't open the door and exit.

archer22

A few weeks ago I saw an extremely obese driver kick open the door of his car which narrowly missed a passing cyclist who was lucky to be about an inch or two out of it's range.

There would have been no way in hell of ever avoiding that door the speed it shot out into the road at.

riemann

Weepsie wrote: »

Can't find any court cases or rulings, but I doubt very many cases have actually gone to court. I know of one for sure that the insurance company paid out.

It's also one of the very first things your told when learning to drive is to be checking around you, including when getting out of the car. If the way isn't clear, don't open the door and exit.

Yes being told to look around sounds like something that was covered.

What wasn't covered was complete responsibility for any passenger's behaviour regarding doors.

Weepsie

riemann wrote: »

Yes being told to look around sounds like something that was covered.

What wasn't covered was complete responsibility for any passenger's behaviour regarding doors.

Might be worth looking at what some insurance agreements say. There's stuff on passengers and Large PSVs in the Road Trafffc Act and how they can only get out at designated spots etc etc.

If you're going down the route of thinking you shouldn't be liable for the passengers in your car, then you are going down the route of asking everyone to have public liability insurance.


If you stop somewhere and allow a passenger to blindly get out, you are being negligent as they are. The driver has blind spots alright, but they also have the mirrors and such.


Either way, the Dutch reach should be thought as standard for all motorists/passengers

kirving

I'm honestly not trying to wind anyone up here, but is the parked car with door open always liable?

If the door has been open for 2 minutes for example, who is at fault?

Weepsie

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I'm honestly not trying to wind anyone up here, but is the parked car with door open always liable?

If the door has been open for 2 minutes for example, who is at fault?

That's probably a good question. Could go either way. No cycling with due care and attention to see the open door already and cyclist at fault.

On the other hand, someone could argue that why is the door open for 2 mins and causing an obstruction in the lane.

Wishbone Ash

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I'm honestly not trying to wind anyone up here, but is the parked car with door open always liable?

If the door has been open for 2 minutes for example, who is at fault?

That's a totally different scenario and the onus would be on a cyclist or any other road user to read the road ahead. Same where a driver has indicated their intention to pull in (regardless if it's on a cycle track).

We're talking about a scenario where the door is suddenly opened in a line of traffic at point blank range.

ravima

Maybe the insurance company in turn would pursue the passenger (who perhaps had legal cover on their house insurance), but probably not. Since this is Ireland it'd probably be the same company underwriting both policies.

Home insurance policies EXCLUDE liability arising from motor vehicles. In your case, the passenger and owner are liable and perhaps also the driver. The motor insurance policy covers passenger negligence as well as driver negligence.

kirving

I guess I'm just wondering what counts as "suddenly". You'd really need witnesses for a solid claim I'd think.

Here's a dashcam video I took of a close call.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTwjKgRwV10

Interesting too, on some new Hyundais and Audis, the rear facing radar will keep the door locked if it senses a car or bike coming.