James mc Clean

thebaz

Berserker wrote: »

No, he is the only Irish player I''ve heard of who is getting abuse at the moment. Same old, same old with him.


He's a sub for a second tier side now and his international performances have been very poor over the past 18 months or so. Time to knuckle down and leave the politics to one side. Gets a very easy ride in an Irish jersey as a result of the fact that he is an Irish republican from NI, if you ask me.

Neil Lennon got whacked on the head last week , by Hearts fans, with murals of hangings , if this happened to a black player , ther would be uproar , and rightly so.

mcLean is not the only sub-performing player wearing the Irish jersey these days at a lowly club , in fact he always seams to give 100% for the jersey , when i watch.

Liam O

Liam O wrote: »

Yet again it stems from the meathead elements of the English public's complete ignorance of the atrocities they've committed in Ireland, hardly something they're taught in school.

Which makes it even more amusing when some Irish people do their "I hate the Brits...but I love ManU/Liverpool and I use the word 'we' when I talk about them" shtick.

If the poppy serves any useful purpose, it should remind all of us that they're English clubs in an English league and there really is no "we" about it.

UrbanFret

Berserker wrote: »

Wrong, it commemorates military personnel who have died in all wars.

Yeah Whatever.

Berserker

Liam O wrote: »

Actually you do...

He might become a bit less professional if he got even a tenth of the abuse McClean gets.

Yet again it stems from the meathead elements of the English public's complete ignorance of the atrocities they've committed in Ireland, hardly something they're taught in school.

It doesn't. Stop playing that card. No other Irish born player has a problem in the UK, that I'm aware of. Duffy was born in the same city as him. Doesn't have a problem over there. Brighton fans adore him from what I've read on their forums.

citytillidie wrote: »

McClean is in a no win situation wear it and get death threats at home don't wear it and get death threats in England

Nail on the head and that's the reason why I haven't got a problem with him not wearing it. I don't know why but I have a feeling in my gut that he may be "under pressure" from certain quarters back home. I still don't get why he's so vocal about it online though. If he just went about his busy quietly, it'd make it an awful lot easier. People in England pay no attention to politics in NI, so I', not buying that.

~Rebel~

Berserker wrote: »

Wrong, it commemorates military personnel who have died in all wars.

Oh, I didn't think i needed to clarify that it was for deaths... I thought that was implied as being the point.

I was pointing out that its all British forces past and present, as opposed to those involved in one specific conflict as the other chap above was suggesting.

(edit. side note, i've always wondered why people respond that way on the internet - "wrong"... is it something anyone ever does in the real world really? always just seems a weird way to interact with other human people...)

citytillidie

Berserker wrote: »

It doesn't. Stop playing that card. No other Irish born player has a problem in the UK, that I'm aware of. Duffy was born in the same city as him. Doesn't have a problem over there. Brighton fans adore him from what I've read on their forums.



Nail on the head and that's the reason why I haven't got a problem with him not wearing it. I don't know why but I have a feeling in my gut that he may be "under pressure" from certain quarters back home. I still don't get why he's so vocal about it online though. If he just went about his busy quietly, it'd make it an awful lot easier. People in England pay no attention to politics in NI, so I', not buying that.

Most people would not care but when you have politicians push their view on it online it will be picked up by news stations here and go across to England with blinkered views

Stephen15

While I don't mind that he doesn't wear a poppy. It appears year after year this non story is brought up over and over again. It comes across to me that James McClean himself is the one who brings it up he releases the same statement at this time of year over and over again seriously James we get it you don't want to wear a poppy on your jersey.

It's almost as if he's just attention seeking at this point as he would be a fairly unknown player otherwise other than to Ireland fans and fans of the club he plays for. Btw this whole wearing poppy on jerseys is a bit riddiculous only something that was started about ten years ago I don't get it.

citytillidie

Stephen15 wrote: »

While I don't mind that he doesn't wear a poppy. It appears year after year this non story is brought up over and over again. It comes across to me that James McClean himself is the one who brings it up he releases the same statement at this time of year over and over again seriously James we get it you don't want to wear a poppy on your jersey.

It's almost as if he's just attention seeking at this point as he would be a fairly unknown player otherwise other than to Ireland fans and fans of the club he plays for. Btw this whole wearing poppy on jerseys is a bit riddiculous only something that was started about ten years ago I don't get it.

It started when the Middle East war was going bad after 9/11 and they needed to drum up support

Owl.

The only part of poppy season I enjoy is this

TheCitizen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I actually have to say, I never heard about the Boro fans abusing McClean until he started posting about "c**ts".

And I bet you didn't either.

The whole online abuse thing is a red herring. He called a section of Boro fans cavemen and c**ts, not people on the www. Are you actual saying he is entitled to call Boro fans c**ts because he got online abuse from unspecified people some other time?

Either way, he's being asked for an explanation, what's so wrong with that?

Yes he is entitled to call them that if they abuse him for simply not wearing a poppy. He’s been getting abuse for 7 years because he doesn’t want to wear a poppy, where have you been for the past 7 years. Now Matic is getting it and others like one or two newsreaders on British TV who stuck their necks out and didn’t wear it also got abuse for not wearing it. Are you seriously suggesting that it’s ok for those bigots to abuse people who don’t wear poppies?

TheCitizen

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I respect McClean's right not to wear the poppy. He just doesn't help matters by describing the opposition fans as uneducated cavemen. I don't doubt for one moment that he gets horrendous abuse but he is giving his detractors exactly what they want. A reaction.

He’s right though, that’s what they are

Broxi_Bear_Eire

thebaz wrote: »

Neil Lennon got whacked on the head last week , by Hearts fans, with murals of hangings , if this happened to a black player , ther would be uproar , and rightly so.

mcLean is not the only sub-performing player wearing the Irish jersey these days at a lowly club , in fact he always seams to give 100% for the jersey , when i watch.

It did happen to a player who is Black on Saturday funilly enough there was a lot less made of it than was made of NL getting hit. Both of which were criminal and the people responsible should be punished

On the the thread matter wear one don’t wear one personal choice

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yes he is entitled to call them that if they abuse him for simply not wearing a poppy. He’s been getting abuse for 7 years because he doesn’t want to wear a poppy, where have you been for the past 7 years. Now Matic is getting it and others like one or two newsreaders on British TV who stuck their necks out and didn’t wear it also got abuse for not wearing it. Are you seriously suggesting that it’s ok for those bigots to abuse people who don’t wear poppies?

Sure look, now that you're the expert on all this abuse he is getting and how obvious it was to the FA and everyone, we can simply look back on your posts on the issue when it was so obvious after the match.

Go on, link the one about the Boro fans.

Thanks.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

It did happen to a player who is Black on Saturday funilly enough there was a lot less made of it than was made of NL getting hit.

Wait...there's a player who is only black on Saturdays?

TheCitizen

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sure look, now that you're the expert on all this abuse he is getting and how obvious it was to the FA and everyone, we can simply look back on your posts on the issue when it was so obvious after the match.

Go on, link the one about the Boro fans.

Thanks.

The annual poppy fascism fest and the abuse of those who don’t partake in it isn’t a new story. It happens every year. You’re well aware of it, if you’re not you’re either living in a bubble, or you’re in total denial, or you just like arguing for the sake of it.

Enzokk

This seems very much like the Colin Kaepernick drama in the USA. It is silly but in the age we live in today us white men have a right to be offended and when we choose to be offended it will be the worst offence ever recorded in the history of the world...

At least Paddypower made me smile about this whole thing.

https://twitter.com/paddypower/status/1059468378836996097

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Deleted User wrote: »

Wait...there's a player who is only black on Saturdays?

Yeah didn’t you know he also changes his religion so he can play for us

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

The annual poppy fascism fest and the abuse of those who don’t partake in it isn’t a new story. It happens every year. You’re well aware of it, if you’re not you’re either living in a bubble, or you’re in total denial, or you just like arguing for the sake of it.

Ha!

You neither knew nor cared that Boro fans allegedly abused McClean until you needed it as ex post facto rationalisation for his stupidity.

And we still get back to the same issue. He was asked for an explanation. Why all the whinging? If it was all their fault, he can give the explanation.

Ursus Horribilis

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I respect McClean's right not to wear the poppy. He just doesn't help matters by describing the opposition fans as uneducated cavemen. I don't doubt for one moment that he gets horrendous abuse but he is giving his detractors exactly what they want. A reaction.

He's right though.

I think he gets a kick out of the abuse. Distracts from his football perhaps which is average enough.

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

Ha!

You neither knew nor cared that Boro fans allegedly abused McClean until you needed it as ex post facto rationalisation for his stupidity.

And we still get back to the same issue. He was asked for an explanation. Why all the whinging? If it was all their fault, he can give the explanation.

What stupidity? Why should he have to explain himself? He's hitting back at those who abused him for simply not wearing a poppy. He's calling them out for what they are.

He's not attacking those who wear a poppy, but he gets abuse for not wearing one, and you don't see what's wrong with that? Are you for real?

Tom Mann Centuria

He probably would get cut more slack if he were a better footballer, but Stoke isn't the centre of enlightened thinking at the best of times, so maybe not.

He's right not to wear a poppy if he doesn't want to, as was Matic (after wearing it in previous years), farcical what the poppy has become, and that the Royal British Legion have allowed it to become is a disgrace.

citytillidie

citytillidie wrote: »

McClean is in a no win situation wear it and get death threats at home don't wear it and get death threats in England

The whole thing is becoming almost self perpetuating now. The pro poppy fascists get outraged by someone not wearing the poppy, then the anti poppy fascists get outraged by the pro poppy fascists outrage, this leads to the pro lot getting more outraged and the anti getting further outraged and so on and so on

Meanwhile, the remaining 90% of the population get on with life as normal.

murpho999

Aegir wrote: »

As we’re discussing a Stoke City player, let’s use them as an example shall we?

Ten of their then team were called up in the First World War, six of whom didn’t come home. In addition, a further four former players were killed.

Is the death of ten players a good enough reason to commemorate? This, of course, is ignoring the fact that scores, if not hundreds of Stoke City fans would also have been killed.

There is nothing unique or exceptional about Stoke, so we can presume similar figures would apply to every other football team in England, Scotland and Wales.

This is what fans who pick a team based on how trendy their kit is, or how many European cups they have won just don’t get. Football clubs are at the heart of a lot of local communities, working class working communities that had an entire generation destroyed 100 years ago.

These have been dead for over a hundred years and it's only in the last few years that it has become compulsory to commemorate them and poppies have been worn on players' jerseys.
I don't believe the club and community are still in mourning about this.

McClean has gotten abuse over this for years now and it has nothing to do with players being killed in the war.

It's become a jingoistic ceremony and there is a complete lack of will by many to understand why many would not want to wear it.

Everybody should be granted the right of choice and that choice should be respected and accepted not abused.

TheCitizen

Aegir wrote: »

The whole thing is becoming almost self perpetuating now. The pro poppy fascists get outraged by someone not wearing the poppy, then the anti poppy fascists get outraged by the pro poppy fascists outrage, this leads to the pro lot getting more outraged and the anti getting further outraged and so on and so on

Meanwhile, the remaining 90% of the population get on with life as normal.

The reality is those in public life who appear on TV in Britain who decide not to wear a poppy get abused for that reason. There would be no issue if that wasn't happening.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

What stupidity? Why should he have to explain himself? He's hitting back at those who abused him for simply not wearing a poppy. He's calling them out for what they are.

He's not attacking those who wear a poppy, but he gets abuse for not wearing one, and you don't see what's wrong with that? Are you for real?

As I said, for all your spluttering and mock outrage now, you actually didn't know nor care about the alleged behaviour by Boro fans.

I fully appreciate why you are so annoyed and reach for the "are you for real" stuff, you follow a British club...

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

As I said, for all your spluttering and mock outrage now, you actually didn't know nor care about the alleged behaviour by Boro fans.

I fully appreciate why you are so annoyed and reach for the "are you for real" stuff, you follow a British club...

You have a great talent for sidestepping any question put to you.

I support Celtic, so what? What has that to do with the reality that the annual poppy appeal has been hijacked and turned into a fascist like phenomenon year after year for a month where those who don't wish to partake in it are the subject of abuse? It looks like those involved in organising the appeal are quite happy with how it has turned into a fascist like annual festival because almost everyone that appears on British TV during that month is advertising their appeal by wearing the poppies.

McClean is not attacking anyone who wears a poppy, so why should he get abused for not wearing one? He is reacting to those who are abusing him for not wearing a poppy and he's right. You seem to have a problem with that, why would that be? What gives them the right to abuse him for not wearing a poppy? Do you actually think it's ok for supporters of other clubs to abuse him (and others) for not wearing a poppy?

Any chance you might answer the questions put to you?

Turtyturd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which makes it even more amusing when some Irish people do their "I hate the Brits...but I love ManU/Liverpool and I use the word 'we' when I talk about them" shtick.

If the poppy serves any useful purpose, it should remind all of us that they're English clubs in an English league and there really is no "we" about it.

Love the way this gets shoehorned in at every opportunity, no matter what the discussion is by a few posters with a chip on their shoulder.

Throw in a comment about everything descending into Liverpool v united to wrap things up.

Fr Tod Umptious

I see Matic does not want to wear the poppy because it reminds him of the NATO bombing of his home village.

What were NATO doing, dropping flowers on them ?

Get over it man, wear the f**king poppy.

pjohnson

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I see Matic does not want to wear the poppy because it reminds him of the NATO bombing of his home village.

What were NATO doing, dropping flowers on them ?

Get over it man, wear the f**king poppy.

Or dont if he doesn't want to.

Arghus

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I see Matic does not want to wear the poppy because it reminds him of the NATO bombing of his home village.

What were NATO doing, dropping flowers on them ?

Get over it man, wear the f**king poppy.

Bizarre post.

murpho999

murpho999 wrote: »

These have been dead for over a hundred years and it's only in the last few years that it has become compulsory to commemorate them and poppies have been worn on players' jerseys.
I don't believe the club and community are still in mourning about this.

it has gotten out of hand over the last few years, but I remember two minutes silence has been held at remembrance weekend games from when i was a kid and used to go every Saturday.

murpho999 wrote: »

McClean has gotten abuse over this for years now and it has nothing to do with players being killed in the war.

the abuse he gets via twitter started when he switched to the RoI. Just like Jack Grealish did.

Jack Grealish didn't then decide to mock Ireland for not qualifying for the next tournament though, which James did, alongside a picture of himself stood next to the "Welcome to free Derry" sign.

murpho999 wrote: »

It's become a jingoistic ceremony and there is a complete lack of will by many to understand why many would not want to wear it.

Everybody should be granted the right of choice and that choice should be respected and accepted not abused.

Absolutely. They should. And to be honest, the ones who don't think that are a very small minority.

The abuse of James McLean goes beyond that though. At worst he looks for it and seems to love the attention, at best he is a keyboard warrior who hasn't realised that if you post the things he does, then it is going to come back and haunt you.

Taking to Twitter and claiming he only gets the abuse because he is an Irish Catholic and then quoting Bobby Sands? Every other Irishman playing, managing or coaching in the English leagues must be cringing at that one. He's gone full blown Ali Gee.

Berserker

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yes he is entitled to call them that if they abuse him for simply not wearing a poppy. He’s been getting abuse for 7 years because he doesn’t want to wear a poppy, where have you been for the past 7 years. Now Matic is getting it and others like one or two newsreaders on British TV who stuck their necks out and didn’t wear it also got abuse for not wearing it. Are you seriously suggesting that it’s ok for those bigots to abuse people who don’t wear poppies?

Why is it always him though? You have to ask that question. He's not the only person who doesn't wear one. It's not a NI nationalist thing either because other NI Nationalists wear a poppy. Would be great if the media ignored him. The reaction thereafter would answer an awful lot of questions. He needs to stay off social media. Some of the stuff he posts is plain crazy for a lad who wants the quiet life. Read it list night and he comes across as a keyboard warrior. Do these clubs not train these young lads in relation to online media? The company I work for sent us all on courses and have clauses in our contracts relating to social media.

lawred2

thebaz wrote: »

cretainly has a point - the FA crack down on any form of racism or sexism in the modern game - but seams ok to abuse certain Irish players in Britain today, without any consequences - in fact James received a warning himself. double standards , I admire him for standing by his principles.

https://www.instagram.com/jimmymac_11/

Of course he has a point. But the poor lad is like an island amidst a sea of hate filled bigotry, group think and jingoism dressed up as a pretty little red flower.

The absolute hate filled vitriol he has to endure 52 weeks a year is a scourge. But anti Irish activities are not something UK people or authorities are too bothered about.

lawred2

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I see Matic does not want to wear the poppy because it reminds him of the NATO bombing of his home village.

What were NATO doing, dropping flowers on them ?

Get over it man, wear the f**king poppy.

What?

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

Of course he has a point. But the poor lad is like an island amidst a sea of hate filled bigotry, group think and jingoism dressed up as a pretty little red flower.

The absolute hate filled vitriol he has to endure 52 weeks a year is a scourge. But anti Irish activities are not something UK authorities are too bothered about.

that post says a lot more about you than it does the UK to be honest.

lawred2

Aegir wrote: »

that post says a lot more about you than it does the UK to be honest.

Does it really? I'm all ears. Eager to see your analysis.

Berserker

Berserker wrote: »

Why is it always him though? You have to ask that question. He's not the only person who doesn't wear one. It's not a NI nationalist thing either because other NI Nationalists wear a poppy. Would be great if the media ignored him. The reaction thereafter would answer an awful lot of questions. He needs to stay off social media. Some of the stuff he posts is plain crazy for a lad who wants the quiet life. Read it list night and he comes across as a keyboard warrior. Do these clubs not train these young lads in relation to online media? The company I work for sent us all on courses and have clauses in our contracts relating to social media.

O'Neill has told him several times to reign in the social media after he took to twitter to call the Belfast a "Bitter sectarian paper" and call their journalists "Bigots".

Berserker

lawred2 wrote: »

Of course he has a point. But the poor lad is like an island amidst a sea of hate filled bigotry, group think and jingoism dressed up as a pretty little red flower.

The absolute hate filled vitriol he has to endure 52 weeks a year is a scourge. But anti Irish activities are not something UK people or authorities are too bothered about.

You should write for the Irish Sun with lines like that! From talking to West Brom fans, he gets abuse around this time of year due to his stance on the poppy and his need to publicise it. Nothing much is said for the rest of the year and he certainly doesn't get anywhere near the level of abuse that other players have received down the years. Robbie Savage, for example, got abused every other week.

People used the lines above when he got abuse from Huddersfield fans but he got that as a result of a horrible challenge that he put in on one of their players.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

Does it really? I'm all ears. Eager to see your analysis.

an analysis would get me banned to be honest.

Berserker

Berserker wrote: »

People used the line above when he got abuse from Huddersfield fans but he got that as a result of a horrible challenge that he put in on one of their players.

and there were people on here claiming that abuse was racist because it was directed at an irishman.

The fact he nearly broke a black player's leg was fine, nothing dirty or racist in that. Similarly the fact he went to the crowd to goad them was fine, no problem with that either.

lawred2

Aegir wrote: »

an analysis would get me banned to be honest.

That's the written man equivalent of the hard man "hold me back" act..

Pity. I'd have liked to seen your carefully considered and insightful analysis.

Berserker

topmanamillion wrote: »

Any player that doesn't wear a poppy is getting dogs abuse on social media.

They don't see Matic as an example. Shane Long didn't wear one a few years back. No problem there. Bet you didn't even know that.

topmanamillion wrote: »

McClean has political beliefs that he is entitled to express.
The poppy should be booted out of football immediately. It's gone well past ridiculous now. See Pep getting fined for wearing a Catalonia solidarity ribbon and right under neath he has a poppy (a war propoganda symbol).

Totally agree about his political beliefs but like you and I, he needs to conduct himself in a professional manner when he is working.

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

That's the written man equivalent of the hard man "hold me back" act..

Pity. I'd have liked to seen your carefully considered and insightful analysis.

as i would yours to be honest.

OldMrBrennan83

Aegir wrote: »

O'Neill has told him several times to reign in the social media after he took to twitter to call the Belfast a "Bitter sectarian paper" and call their journalists "Bigots".

O'Neill has never been one to upset the British media.

topmanamillion

Berserker wrote: »

They don't see Matic as an example. Shane Long didn't wear one a few years back. No problem there. Bet you didn't even know that.

Who doesn't see Matic as an example?
Shane Long actually did wear a poppy. He changed his shirt in the second half of a match and there was no poppy on it and Twitter predictably went into meltdown.

citytillidie

Aegir wrote: »

it has gotten out of hand over the last few years, but I remember two minutes silence has been held at remembrance weekend games from when i was a kid and used to go every Saturday.



the abuse he gets via twitter started when he switched to the RoI. Just like Jack Grealish did.

Jack Grealish didn't then decide to mock Ireland for not qualifying for the next tournament though, which James did, alongside a picture of himself stood next to the "Welcome to free Derry" sign.



Absolutely. They should. And to be honest, the ones who don't think that are a very small minority.

The abuse of James McLean goes beyond that though. At worst he looks for it and seems to love the attention, at best he is a keyboard warrior who hasn't realised that if you post the things he does, then it is going to come back and haunt you.

Taking to Twitter and claiming he only gets the abuse because he is an Irish Catholic and then quoting Bobby Sands? Every other Irishman playing, managing or coaching in the English leagues must be cringing at that one. He's gone full blown Ali Gee.

Underage football on the island is done by schools, so going to a school in Derry will mean he has to represent Northern Ireland school boys, maybe then when still at school going to Belfast was easier than going to Dublin so you can understand now why until he finished school he was with Northern Ireland.

Same as Giggs he went to school in England so had to represent England at school boys then he went to Wales when he was old enough

citytillidie

Aegir wrote: »

and there were people on here claiming that abuse was racist because it was directed at an irishman.

The fact he nearly broke a black player's leg was fine, nothing dirty or racist in that. Similarly the fact he went to the crowd to goad them was fine, no problem with that either.

You mean going to the tunnel to the dressing room goaded the crowd now

There seemed to be some confusion in this thread about McClean being asked to explain his stance on the poppy. As I said, it was for calling a section of fans "cavemen" and "c***s". The FA has, quite correctly, warned him about offensive language, so surely that clarifies the matter. He was not in trouble for the poppy, much and all as he seems determined to stir the issue every year and draw attention to himself. He was in trouble for using foul language on social media. It's not a big deal, he wasn't fined or suspended.

citytillidie

citytillidie wrote: »

Underage football on the island is done by schools, so going to a school in Derry will mean he has to represent Northern Ireland school boys, maybe then when still at school going to Belfast was easier than going to Dublin so you can understand now why until he finished school he was with Northern Ireland.

Same as Giggs he went to school in England so had to represent England at school boys then he went to Wales when he was old enough

I know why he switched and i have no problem with it. Unfortunately he comes from a fairly toxic area where this kind of decision is always going to be met with aggression.

Rory McIlroy faced derision for choosing GB over Ireland at the world cup. Admittedly not as bad, but probably because golf doesn't attract the same amount of knuckle draggers.

citytillidie

citytillidie wrote: »

You mean going to the tunnel to the dressing room goaded the crowd now

no, I was quite clearly talking about when he scythed down a Tom Ince, got called a dirty **** by the crowd and decided to approach them, which resulted in him getting things thrown at him.