Midterm Elections

Water John

All legitimate votes should be counted. That is the priority not some arbitrary counting deadline. Democracy cannot be shortchanged by bungling or inept bureaucrats.

2 Scoops

Water John wrote: »

All legitimate votes should be counted. That is the priority not some arbitrary counting deadline. Democracy cannot be shortchanged by bungling or inept bureaucrats.

Who said anything differently?

mcmoustache

2 Scoops wrote: »

The Democrat lawyers own words at their press conference "We're not here to count every vote, we're here to win".

Oh, and there's plenty of evidence of corruption with Brenda Snipes and Broward county. You know full well if the shoe was on the other foot you'd be questioning what's going on there too if a bunch of Republican lawyers showed up saying similar things.

Edit: Some Links not available outside of the US, I'll try find alternative ones.

Convicted for illegally destroying ballots - https://www.nationalreview.com/news/woman-overseeing-broward-vote-count-illegally-destroyed-ballots-in-previous-race/

"A judge ruled in 2016 that Snipes violated federal election law by prematurely destroying ballots from a congressional race that were relevant to an outstanding lawsuit against her office. As a result, the Florida Department of State said elections experts would be dispatched to monitor Snipes’s office in future elections to “ensure that all laws are followed.”

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2018/08/13/judge-sides-with-florida-gop-in-absentee-ballot-dispute-with-broward-county-555553 - A judge has ordered the election supervisor in Florida’s second-most populous county to change the way she handles vote-by-mail absentee ballots after the Republican Party sued her for not following the law.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article3563324.html - Fellow Democrats accused her precinct of individual and systemic breakdowns that made it difficult for voters to cast regular ballots

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article220841135.html - Posted election results half an hour before polls closed – a very clear violation of election law.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article109574732.html - Sued for leaving amendments off of ballots

https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/election-fraud-nonpartisan-issue-these-cases-florida-prove-it Accusations of ballot stuffing

http://www.wlrn.org/post/election-transparency-activists-ask-what-has-gone-wrong-broward-county - Opening ballots in private, breaking Florida law

That's all interesting but why stop counting before all the votes are in?

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mcmoustache wrote: »

That's all interesting but why stop counting before all the votes are in?

The election was Tuesday, it's now Saturday. Florida law requires counties report early voting & vote-by-mail within 30 minutes after polls close. They are still refusing to give even a rough estimate of how many ballots are left to count.

You can brush over Broward's history of corruption all you want. It's relevant. For transparency, what should happen is a bi-partisan count or investigation when stakes are this high and margins razer thin, not some Clinton lackey lawyer holding a press conference stating he's "there to win" working with a Democratic overseer who has a history of corruption.

Rjd2

mcmoustache wrote: »

That's all interesting but why stop counting before all the votes are in?

I don't think anybody wants them to stop counting, its just anger at Broword county who was not abiding by its responsibility to provide ballot information under the public records act. It also does not help when the women in charge of this seems pretty incompetent also.

Again the danger is people online seem to be unable to tell what is happening in Florida and Arizona apart including Trump.

Florida just reeks of incompetence (not suggesting its some masterplan by the dems to steal the seat as some conspiracy people are saying) while in Arizona nothing strange is happening just a slow count which might be annoying for the GOP, but is clearly aboveboard and from all accounts in keeping with this state.

Rjd2

Judge finds Broward SOE violated public records act and Florida constitution. SOE must provide public records requested by Scott and NRSC.

https://twitter.com/SchmitzMedia/status/1060995694742396928

I know for many understandably this is boy cried wolf and its even more difficult to have any sympathy for the GOP (and you shouldn't in the first place:pac:) especially when you see the bollocks been spouted about a perfectly fair count in Arizona, but this does stink somewhat.

It will be interesting to see how this develops.

markodaly

Blue wave was more of a blue ripple. Trump all things considered did OK. He is definitely in with a shout of being re-elected, more so if the economy keeps going.
Dems are in a bit of a pickle now, run a moderate or run a progressive. They could, of course, go with Oprah...lol.

One thing that struck me, I watched some of ABC and MSNBC and Christ the level of reporting is disgraceful. How are these people able to get away with their partisan bull?

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markodaly wrote: »

One thing that struck me, I watched some of ABC and MSNBC and Christ the level of reporting is disgraceful. How are these people able to get away with their partisan bull?

MSNBC is the leftwing version of Fox news. CNN used to be the most neutral cable station but for whatever reason in recent years they changed and went down a highly partisan path. ABC CBS aren't too bad but do lean liberal, NBC much more so. Fox is literally the only conservative "leaning" TV station if you exclude small operations like newsmax and OAN. They're killing the cable ratings as a result.

https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/october-2018-ratings-fox-news-channel-averaged-more-viewers-than-cnn-and-msnbc-combined/382598

October 2018 Ratings: Fox News Channel Averaged More Total Viewers Than CNN and MSNBC Combined

Harika

markodaly wrote: »

Blue wave was more of a blue ripple. Trump all things considered did OK. He is definitely in with a shout of being re-elected, more so if the economy keeps going.
Dems are in a bit of a pickle now, run a moderate or run a progressive. They could, of course, go with Oprah...lol.

You would think with all this economy going he would not have lost the house, and from his twitter endorsements he only achieved to win 56%

prawnsambo

markodaly wrote: »

Blue wave was more of a blue ripple. Trump all things considered did OK. He is definitely in with a shout of being re-elected, more so if the economy keeps going.
Dems are in a bit of a pickle now, run a moderate or run a progressive. They could, of course, go with Oprah...lol.

You do know that the loss of seats in Congress is the highest a Republican president has suffered in any midterm election since Watergate?

mcmoustache

Rjd2 wrote: »

I don't think anybody wants them to stop counting, its just anger at Broword county who was not abiding by its responsibility to provide ballot information under the public records act. It also does not help when the women in charge of this seems pretty incompetent also.

Again the danger is people online seem to be unable to tell what is happening in Florida and Arizona apart including Trump.

Florida just reeks of incompetence (not suggesting its some masterplan by the dems to steal the seat as some conspiracy people are saying) while in Arizona nothing strange is happening just a slow count which might be annoying for the GOP, but is clearly aboveboard and from all accounts in keeping with this state.

Count me in there. Broward is notorious but all of the various electoral fúckery that happens in the US can be confusing.

mcmoustache

2 Scoops wrote: »

MSNBC is the leftwing version of Fox news. CNN used to be the most neutral cable station but for whatever reason in recent years they changed and went down a highly partisan path. ABC CBS aren't too bad but do lean liberal, NBC much more so. Fox is literally the only conservative "leaning" TV station if you exclude small operations like newsmax and OAN. They're killing the cable ratings as a result.

https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/october-2018-ratings-fox-news-channel-averaged-more-viewers-than-cnn-and-msnbc-combined/382598

October 2018 Ratings: Fox News Channel Averaged More Total Viewers Than CNN and MSNBC Combined

For all MSNBC's biases, they're in no way the left wing version of Fox. You're thinking of Jimmy Dore or some obscure commy disinfo organisation. MSNBC has no version of Hannity, Carlson, Pirro or the other lying "totally not journalists but "talent" people" that they have on. To say that they are equivalent shows an inability to distinguish reality from nonsense.

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mcmoustache wrote: »

For all MSNBC's biases, they're in no way the left wing version of Fox. You're thinking of Jimmy Dore or some obscure commy disinfo organisation. MSNBC has no version of Hannity, Carlson, Pirro or the other lying "totally not journalists but "talent" people" that they have on. To say that they are equivalent shows an inability to distinguish reality from nonsense.

That's your opinion. I've seen plenty of conspiracies theories floated on msnbc.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/04/11/msnbc_hosts_theory_putin_masterminded_chemical_attack_to_distract_from_trump-russia_connection_it_is_perfect.html

mcmoustache

2 Scoops wrote: »

That's your opinion. I've seen plenty of conspiracies theories floated on msnbc.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/04/11/msnbc_Again the danger is people online seem to be unable to tell what is happening in Florida and Arizona apart including Trump. hosts_theory_putin_masterminded_chemical_attack_to_distract_from_trump-russia_connection_it_is_perfect.html

Like nightly? Quantity, regularity and level aren't comparable at all. Sure you can find one, but for any one of those, you know that I can find tens that are far worse.


If we went by your logic, Fox, BBC, Al Jazeera, Reuters and AP would be equally crazy but their not so you should take a look at how you evaluate news orgs.


And as an aside, there are a lot of shows on MSNBS hosted by conservatives (Nichole Wallace for example). It's just that you've started to equate Trump with conservatism and think that anyone who opposes Him is a lib.

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mcmoustache wrote: »

And as an aside, there are a lot of shows on MSNBS hosted by conservatives (Nichole Wallace for example). It's just that you've started to equate Trump with conservatism and think that anyone who opposes Him is a lib.

Fox has good neutral reporters too, Chris Wallace, Shepard Smith, Brett Baier etc. The opinion shows, Tucker, Hannity, Ingraham are hyper partisan but are they really that different than Maddow, Chris Hayes and Lawrence. I dunno about that.

mcmoustache

2 Scoops wrote: »

Fox has good neutral reporters too, Chris Wallace, Shepard Smith, Brett Baier etc. The opinion shows, Tucker, Hannity, Ingraham are hyper partisan but are they really that different than Maddow, Chris Hayes and Lawrence. I dunno about that.

Can't speak for lawrence because I don't like his style but Maddow and Hayes don't just make stuff up. Sure, Maddow once hyped up some tax returns from an uneventful year but her target market doesn't like being misinformed. She and Hayes are nowhere near the scale of what Hannity, Dobbs, Pirro and Carlson spew and you know it.

I'll also add that their three news people are very good. I particularly like that Smith has to debunk Hannity every day.

2 Scoops

mcmoustache wrote: »

Can't speak for lawrence because I don't like his style but Maddow and Hayes don't just make stuff up. Sure, Maddow once hyped up some tax returns from an uneventful year but she her target market doesn't like being misinformed. She and Hayes are nowhere near the scale of what Hannity, Dobbs, Pirro and Carlson spew and you know it.

You're really pushing me to quote videos of conspiracies from the likes of Maddow but it's going to draw the thread off topic. We won't agree so I won't reply about it anymore, but for all intents and purposes here's a snippet of her Niger conspiracy theory being called out even by hyper partisan outlets like Huffpo.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rachel-maddow-niger-travel-ban_us_59ea060fe4b05b4f1c3ad52f

"It was a vintage Rachel Maddow stemwinder. A deft, 25-minute weaving of carefully curated sound bites, screenshots of news reports, slick maps and graphics, all strung together to make the case that something fishy is afoot. It’s a style Maddow has perfected, and it has propelled her to the top of the ratings heap.

There was just one problem. Maddow’s theory was so flimsy that it could be debunked by a quick glance at a map, let alone a phone call with an expert.

Janet Malcolm of The New Yorker recently described Maddow’s show as “a piece of sleight of hand presented as a cable news show. It is TV entertainment at its finest. It permits liberals to enjoy themselves during what may be the most thoroughly unenjoyable time of their political lives.”

mcmoustache

2 Scoops wrote: »

You're really pushing me to quote videos of conspiracies from the likes of Maddow but it's going to draw the thread off topic. We won't agree so I won't reply about it anymore, but for all intents and purposes here's a snippet of her Niger conspiracy theory being called out even by hyper partisan outlets like Huffpo.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rachel-maddow-niger-travel-ban_us_59ea060fe4b05b4f1c3ad52f

"It was a vintage Rachel Maddow stemwinder. A deft, 25-minute weaving of carefully curated sound bites, screenshots of news reports, slick maps and graphics, all strung together to make the case that something fishy is afoot. It’s a style Maddow has perfected, and it has propelled her to the top of the ratings heap.

There was just one problem. Maddow’s theory was so flimsy that it could be debunked by a quick glance at a map, let alone a phone call with an expert.

Janet Malcolm of The New Yorker recently described Maddow’s show as “a piece of sleight of hand presented as a cable news show. It is TV entertainment at its finest. It permits liberals to enjoy themselves during what may be the most thoroughly unenjoyable time of their political lives.”

If you think that that's comparable with Hannity (regularly, not a once off thing) we'll have to disagree. And that's fine but you won't fool anyone into thinking that MSNBC and FOX are comparable. FOX don't even hide it anymore and let's not forget Cohen's other client.

2 Scoops

mcmoustache wrote: »

If you think that that's comparable with Hannity (regularly, not a once off thing) we'll have to disagree. And that's fine but you won't fool anyone into thinking that MSNBC and FOX are comparable. FOX don't even hide it anymore and let's not forget Cohen's other client.

Like I said, that's your opinion. Mine is different. All is fine in the world, I'm not trying to fool anyone.

ClanofLams

2 Scoops wrote: »

Fox has good neutral reporters too, Chris Wallace, Shepard Smith, Brett Baier etc. The opinion shows, Tucker, Hannity, Ingraham are hyper partisan but are they really that different than Maddow, Chris Hayes and Lawrence. I dunno about that.

They are extremely different. Fox News propagates outright batsh*t conspiracy theories, obama birtherism, death panels in relation to obamacare (where a govt committee was apparently going to decide if you deserved healthcare or should die) , Seth rich the Clinton campaign aide whom Fox News reported may have been murdered on orders of Democratic Party officials before eventually retracting and apologising, Hannity campaigning with the president this week and calling other journos 'fake news',etc.

That's just off the top of my head and obviously doesn't include the smaller lies they on a daily basis. MSNBC and the likes may engage in 'spin' from time to time but it's nothing compared to the utter lies and garbage on fox.

2 Scoops

ClanofLams wrote: »

They are extremely different.

Whatever you say..

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1050219760808591361?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fentertainment%2Fmsnbc-star-chris-hayes-floats-conspiracy-theory-that-saudis-pay-trump-massive-bribes

mcmoustache

2 Scoops wrote: »

Whatever you say..

https://twitter.com/chrislhayes/status/1050219760808591361?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fentertainment%2Fmsnbc-star-chris-hayes-floats-conspiracy-theory-that-saudis-pay-trump-massive-bribes

It's public information that they're renting his properties for no good reason. There are lawsuits and everything.

Not to mention the journalistic end of Murdoch's WSJ reporting MBS asking Kushner "why is this a big deal".

Rjd2

https://twitter.com/NickRiccardi/status/1061046501672022016

https://twitter.com/SeanTrende/status/1061050201811701761

Pretty close to game over for Mc Sally in Arizona. With Florida looking a basketcase and the Dems finishing strongly in the house races, may not have been as good as result as Trump said it was a few days ago.

2 Scoops

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's public information that they're renting his properties for no good reason. There are lawsuits and everything.

Where's the proof he's accepting bribes? See the thing is like for example, there is actual factual documentation that the Clinton's received money ( bribes ) for speaking in Russia and their donations to the CF, you'll dismiss it as a conspiracy theory. But when Hayes alludes Trump is taking bribes from the Saudi's you'll try and justify it as if there's an element to truth to it. You can't separate your political bias at all.

mcmoustache

2 Scoops wrote: »

Where's the proof he's accepting bribes? See the thing is like for example, there is actual factual documentation that the Clinton's received money ( bribes ) for speaking in Russia and their donations to the CF, you'll dismiss it as a conspiracy theory. But when Hayes alludes Trump is taking bribes from the Saudi's you'll try and justify it as if there's an element to truth to it. You can't separate your political bias at all.

I didn't dismiss the bribes to Clinton, disguised as speaking fees from Goldman Sachs or whatever. You must have me confused with someone else. And you know well that bribes aren't paid in bribes in a brown envelope with the quid pro quo spelled out in the receipt. Nobody does that.


Instead, they do things like pay you speaking fees or rent your properties. It's the reason for the emoluments clause. Surely you're aware of this?

mcmoustache

Rjd2 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/NickRiccardi/status/1061046501672022016

https://twitter.com/SeanTrende/status/1061050201811701761

Pretty close to game over for Mc Sally in Arizona. With Florida looking a basketcase and the Dems finishing strongly in the house races, may not have been as good as result as Trump said it was a few days ago.

That's quite surprising, to be honest. I considered that state fairly solidly republican.

2 Scoops

mcmoustache wrote: »

I didn't dismiss the bribes to Clinton, disguised as speaking fees from Goldman Sachs or whatever. You must have me confused with someone else. And you know well that bribes aren't paid in bribes in a brown envelope with the quid pro quo spelled out in the receipt. Nobody does that.

Instead, they do things like pay you speaking fees or rent your properties. It's the reason for the emoluments clause. Surely you're aware of this?

If you're one of the few on this forum that realizes what went on with the CF while she was in the state department I applaud you for that. Honestly.

If there's something to Trump accepting bribes from the Saudi's like Hayes alluded then I'll call it out too, but I haven't seen any hard evidence of that. ( Payments to Trump foundation or w/e it might be ). It's not uncommon knowledge the US has been in bed with the Saudi's for decades.

markodaly

prawnsambo wrote: »

You do know that the loss of seats in Congress is the highest a Republican president has suffered in any midterm election since Watergate?

Highest? Bush lost more in 2006.

markodaly

2 Scoops wrote: »

MSNBC is the leftwing version of Fox news. CNN used to be the most neutral cable station but for whatever reason in recent years they changed and went down a highly partisan path. ABC CBS aren't too bad but do lean liberal, NBC much more so. Fox is literally the only conservative "leaning" TV station if you exclude small operations like newsmax and OAN. They're killing the cable ratings as a result.

https://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/october-2018-ratings-fox-news-channel-averaged-more-viewers-than-cnn-and-msnbc-combined/382598

October 2018 Ratings: Fox News Channel Averaged More Total Viewers Than CNN and MSNBC Combined

It seems the other networks are trying to copy the Fox News model and are eating themselves alive and throwing out all their integrity while they were at it. Why do people take these 'journalists' seriously?

Funnily enough, I stopped watching both ABC and MSNBC and started watching some live shows on youtube, TYT and the Dailywire for example. Both on different spectrums but at least they were a) open about it and the level of discourse was much superior and engaging. That is the future right there.

markodaly

Harika wrote: »

You would think with all this economy going he would not have lost the house, and from his twitter endorsements he only achieved to win 56%

When was the last time a first-term president, who controlled both houses did not lose the house?
Not an argument, but just curious as I want to find out.