The Bomber

walshb

One area I see as logically possible is that Usyk's volume/connect rate drops in this fight because Bellew is really "slick" and gets in heavy counters shots that really gain Usyk's respect, making Usyk think a little more before committing on offence...this leading to a lot of action difficult to score and making for a closely fought fight...

magma69

Usyk is incredible but it'd be funny to see Bellew manage to ko him just to see the boxing hipsters humbled.

In reality, Bellew is a level below the last two guys Usyk faced. One of whom he absolutely destroyed and the other won a close, competitive decision.

Would love to see Ward return and fight the winner.

magma69

Looking at the undercard there and it's absolute muck for a PPV. Eddie Hearn is a hungry cnut. Whyte v Chisora has no business being a ppv headliner either. Hope the majority of people buy the Frampton Warrington fight instead.

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

One area I see as logically possible is that Usyk's volume/connect rate drops in this fight because Bellew is really "slick" and gets in heavy counters shots that really gain Usyk's respect, making Usyk think a little more before committing on offence...this leading to a lot of action difficult to score and making for a closely fought fight...

I don't think Bellew is really that slick. Bends at the waist pretty well for his size I suppose but he's more than hittable. Really think people are getting carried away with how he slipped the most telegraphed of shots against a Haye leaping at him with one leg. Watch him get dropped by Makabu, watch him get buzzed by Brudov, even watch him lose a round to BJ Flores, he's there to be hit. Gassiev caught Usyk with a good shot and it didn't make Usyk fight any different. I'd be surprised if Bellew's power really makes him think twice in the fight.

walshb

He’s not inherently slick, I know this..... but I’m talking gameplans here. Bellew is no mug, and if wants, he can make it difficult for Usyk to land clean and consistent..

normanoffside

magma69 wrote: »

Looking at the undercard there and it's absolute muck for a PPV. Eddie Hearn is a hungry cnut. Whyte v Chisora has no business being a ppv headliner either. Hope the majority of people buy the Frampton Warrington fight instead.

Nothing will ever top Bellew vs Cleverly 2!

At least this time we get to see Tony get battered.

The Dagestani Eagle

I want Bellew's wife and children crying in the stands.

Time to put this circus to a stop once and for all.

I welcome our new Ukrainian overlords.

Sell the family silver and put it on Usyk

normanoffside

Awful injury on Sam Hyde there

normanoffside

Good fight this. Allen is seriously unfit.

Morrison J

Allen is a disgrace. Given countless opportunities by Hearn and still comes in that unfit.

normanoffside

Morrison J wrote: »

Allen is a disgrace. Given countless opportunities by Hearn and still comes in that unfit.

To be fair he was only given a week's notice of this fight, but he shouldn't be getting so unfit between fights.

Morrison J

normanoffside wrote: »

To be fair he was only given a week's notice of this fight, but he shouldn't be getting so unfit between fights.

He was well aware he'd be fighting in November/December just didn't know for sure on the date/opponent though. Should be living in the gym given the chances he's getting but obviously couldn't really care less. Big shame really.

I've never seen a fighter say how much fitter he needs to be while sipping on an Irn Bru post fight. You couldn't make it up really.

weemcd

20 on Usyk ko if Bellew finds a way to win I would not begrudge the man.

normanoffside

Morrison J wrote: »

He was well aware he'd be fighting in November/December just didn't know for sure on the date/opponent though. Should be living in the gym given the chances he's getting but obviously couldn't really care less. Big shame really.

I've never seen a fighter say how much fitter he needs to be while sipping on an Irn Bru post fight. You couldn't make it up really.

I agree with that 100%, as a 'contender' and a full time pro he should be ready to go all the time.
All the same we are speaking of a British level (at best) fighter here so he is never going to make it in the big time. He's making more money purely because of his personality (hence the Irn Bru sponsorhip)

https://twitter.com/irnbru/status/1061351495491215360

anthonyjmaher

How many more times do we have to hear the same interview from Dave Allen. His career is passing him by. "I didn't train right, I didn't eat right, only took the fight on short notice." Just not good enough. He doesn't seem mentally in a great place in the post fight interviews.

You'd wonder why he didn't get David Haye on board to train him, looks like he needs him more than Chisora!

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

Yeah I’ve just stuck €100 separately on Usyk TKO at 15/8 and Usyk 7-12 at 23/10

Good chance both come through

Whoop!

Johner

walshb wrote: »

I am more talking about it possibly being closer than what most think..

I have Usyk via TKO, but I think there will be competition here and that Bellew will make a fight of it......

I doubt it will be glaringly obvious from bell 1 to the end that Usyk is so so superior...

I reckon Usyk breaks Bellew down and wears him out, but in a hard fought and competitive fight.....

Similar to Spence/Brook in terms of who is winning.....not necessarily similar in how it plays out.......

Can we expect a fair few difficult to score rds and if so, those picking Usyk via points could be in for an upset?

Decent shout. Bellew did a lot better than most people thought he would.

normanoffside

Why was that given as a KO and not a TKO?
Bellew was on his feet before the 10 count.

normanoffside

normanoffside wrote: »

Why was that given as a KO and not a TKO?
Bellew was on his feet before the 10 count.

Scratch that, it ws actually a knockout, he was down for 12.

I'll end up just making a small profit on my round 7-12 bet.

megadodge

normanoffside wrote: »

Why was that given as a KO and not a TKO?
Bellew was on his feet before the 10 count.

It was a TKO. The timekeeper reached "7" and the ref waved it off as Bellew was rising. I just double checked it on Youtube.

Boxrec have it wrong at the moment, but I expect them to correct that, as they take that sort of thing seriously

If a bookie is trying to stiff you, keep at them. Don't let them get away with it.

normanoffside

megadodge wrote: »

It was a TKO. The timekeeper reached "7" and the ref waved it off as Bellew was rising. I just double checked it on Youtube.

Boxrec have it wrong at the moment, but I expect them to correct that, as they take that sort of thing seriously

If a bookie is trying to stiff you, keep at them. Don't let them get away with it.

No, I have it on a docket and haven't went to claim it yet, but all bookies, including PP have said they paid out on a KO in the 'exact method of victory' market.
http://legacy.paddypower.com/results/resultsSearch.do

It has definitely been given officially as a KO. Maybe I will wait until Monday to claim it and see if Boxrec changes the result in the mean time?
It's worth about €290 to me.

megadodge

normanoffside wrote: »

No, I have it on a docket and haven't went to claim it yet, but all bookies, including PP have said they paid out on a KO in the 'exact method of victory' market.
http://legacy.paddypower.com/results/resultsSearch.do

It has definitely been given officially as a KO. Maybe I will wait until Monday to claim it and see if Boxrec changes the result in the mean time?
It's worth about €290 to me.

Well, they're wrong!

The count never reached "10", which it needs to in order for it to be a KO.

normanoffside

megadodge wrote: »

Well, they're wrong!

The count never reached "10", which it needs to in order for it to be a KO.

That's what I thought at the time, but if you look at the ESPN coverage there is no one announcing the count and it looks like the ref reaches 10?
What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqVcWeDoSk8

https://youtu.be/gqVcWeDoSk8

Edit, you are actually 100% right, the ref clearly stops it at 7.
How do i go about getting a result changed?

Angliru

If a ref deems you're not able to get up he can wave off the fight before the count reaches 10 and it is still deemed a traditional KO. Many examples of this, Manny-Hatton, Canelo-Khan, Canelo-Kirkland, Lemieux-Stevens

megadodge

normanoffside wrote: »

That's what I thought at the time, but if you look at the ESPN coverage there is no one announcing the count and it looks like the ref reaches 10?
What do you think?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqVcWeDoSk8

https://youtu.be/gqVcWeDoSk8

Edit, you are actually 100% right, the ref clearly stops it at 7.
How do i go about getting a result changed?

Bookies aren't exactly known for their negotiating niceties, but you need to get onto their helpdesk and talk to someone to put your case out there.

It is very clear that the last number called out by the timekeeper is "7" and the ref's fingers seem to coincide with this, therefore it was a TKO.

megadodge

Angliru wrote: »

If a ref deems you're not able to get up he can wave off the fight before the count reaches 10 and it is still deemed a traditional KO. Many examples of this, Manny-Hatton, Canelo-Khan, Canelo-Kirkland, Lemieux-Stevens

No. The count has to reach 10 or else it is deemed a stoppage, even if the boxer is unconscious. We know he is knocked out, but the technical result is a TKO.

That's a moot point in this case, as Bellew clearly beat the count.

normanoffside

Angliru wrote: »

If a ref deems you're not able to get up he can wave off the fight before the count reaches 10 and it is still deemed a traditional KO. Many examples of this, Manny-Hatton, Canelo-Khan, Canelo-Kirkland, Lemieux-Stevens

I'd say those are different in that they were on the floor unconscious.

Here Bellew was on a knee and trying to get up. In fact if the ref had given him those 3 seconds he would have got up and been stopped on his feet.

Another example of a TKO in this circumstance is Froch vs Groves 2

normanoffside

megadodge wrote: »

Bookies aren't exactly known for their negotiating niceties, but you need to get onto their helpdesk and talk to someone to put your case out there.

It is very clear that the last number called out by the timekeeper is "7" and the ref's fingers seem to coincide with this, therefore it was a TKO.

I put a query into Boxrec. As I'll have to go to the shop to claim, I can talk to a manager there.
If Boxrec has it as a TKO then I should have a good argument.

walshb

Boxing is littered with inaccuracies as regards calling KOs and TKOs...

Ref sometimes doesn’t even begin a count for some clean KOs....

Plenty KO records where boxers are on their feet being counted out and stopped..

FTA69

I agree with Walsh and I hate to say it Norman but they'll probably have enough wiggle room to blackguard their way out of it.

normanoffside

FTA69 wrote: »

I agree with Walsh and I hate to say it Norman but they'll probably have enough wiggle room to blackguard their way out of it.

Yeah, I figured that, I mean they'll have already paid out on the KO bets online as that was the official result announced at the event.
My best bet is to try to get the Boxrec record changed before going back to the shop to claim.

I am still well up overall with my other bet on the fight but If I could get paid out on the TKO as well it would be a major scoop of cash.

walshb

Just catching up on this card...

Crolla is fooking ****. Shut d fook up, Nelson!

Morrison J

Think this whole "British Great" line that keeps being given to Bellew can be put to bed. I'd rank George Groves career above Bellew's pretty clearly.

Bellew had a good career but he's got no real notable wins at all despite what Sky/Matchroom are trying to make us believe. He's 0-3 when fighting a world champion.

He was just outclassed last night. Gave it a good go as expected but clearly levels between the two. Usyk better in practically every category.

walshb

You have a right hard on for that Groves lad...

He’s beaten nobody...nobody of note, anyway..

DeGale his best win, and that was 7/8 years ago..

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

You have a right hard on for that Groves lad...

He’s beaten nobody...nobody of note, anyway..

DeGale his best win, and that was 7/8 years ago..

I'm just using him as an example of how when you take the Sky hype away Bellew's career really has been nothing special. If Groves had Sky/Matchroom behind him then I'm sure the narrative around him would be far more positive. Definitely should be remembered as being better than Bellew's anyway and Groves isn't even finished yet.

Bellew has never beat a champion for a belt in his whole career. Vacant British, European, Commonwealth and World title. He really can’t be compared to any British great. His career is probably on a similar level to James DeGale's I'd say although DeGale probably had a stronger peak.

walshb

As far as I’m concerned Groves is all but finished...

Bellew did well last night. Just ran out of steam...nice looped left to end it..

As I thought he wore Bellew down, but for many rds he was not at all clearly superior. One could argue several rds for Bellew.

Just not really overawed by Usyk...

Strange to analyze and assess. Very robotic and stiff, even if he has good feet and balance. His punching is very bland..

Usyk was the ring general, but for large parts of the fight he was missing shots..

Up at HW? Not at all confident he’d beat the best there...

SHOVELLER

Thought Bellew did better than expected to be fair. He did well early not getting caught too much but you could sense he was tiring a wee bit and Usyk was just biding his time and getting warm. Credit to Bellew and maybe his histrionics made Usyk more cautious than one would expect early on.

What a great left hook to finish it and Bellew's eyes spoke volumes.

Thought the great left hook that stunned Bellew in the fourth was overlooked and a portent of things to come. Plus he looked like he was letting his mind wander and this was not the fight for that. Great word to describe Usyk is slick.

But its Bellew's histrionics that grate. How many times did he praise Usyk after and kiss him??? He also thought the booing was for Usyk after when Eddie Hearn was standing next to him!

I think we can all look forward to when Usyk moves up. Target rich environment right there. Bellew exiting with a £4m payday will hopefully mean he stays retired.

walshb

What's all the hoopla about Tony’s post fight interview?

He was clear, articulate and very composed...yes, he might have went on a bit...

Yes, he was knocked out, but he was well with it when interviewed...

Morrison J

I gave Bellew the first three rounds but I can't say I was ever remotely nervous that Usyk was about to have it difficult. Didn't think Bellew ever really looked comfortable from the bell. Usyk exhausted him within a few rounds and manoeuvred him wherever he liked. He barely threw a shot in the first four rounds and had Bellew exhausted. His elite footwork alone was pretty much enough to win him the fight. Pretty amazing to watch.

normanoffside

walshb wrote: »

What's all the hoopla about Tony’s post fight interview?

He was clear, articulate and very composed...yes, he might have went on a bit...

Yes, he was knocked out, but he was well with it when interviewed...

Well he repeated the same thing over and over gain and had to ask twice which round he was knocked out in.

Angliru

Bellew is on record saying he thought he was stopped on his feet and didn't remember hitting the floor. He was out of it completely. It was an awkward watch.

walshb

normanoffside wrote: »

Well he repeated the same thing over and over gain and had to ask twice which round he was knocked out in.

I heard that, but I think he was just talking...He was lucid and articulate...

Asking what rd it was couple times, big deal..

Not saying his head was completely there, but for someone who had just been dropped heavily, I think he recovered somewhat as regards being up for the interview..

Morrison J

There really is so much wrong with British boxing. How Sky sell these fights is gone beyond a joke, it's pure propaganda and every single time there's people who lap it up. Will people ever cop on to it? Surely it eventually gets to a point where people tune out.

Having every pundit under the sun tip Bellew during the week is one thing but even continuing it during the fight after people have bought the PPV is something else. Haye talking as if Bellew was putting on a total clinic the first four rounds, Froch giving any Usyk round as a 10-10, Adam Smith making you think Usyk was on the verge of getting stopped, Paulie Malignaggi the only one who brought any sanity to the broadcast.

Then there's judges cards again. How anyone could've had Bellew three up there is just amazing and has sadly become the norm in the UK now.

It's all getting very tiring I think. Give me a good card on Showtime or ESPN over in the States any day over this. They don't dress it up to be anything but what it is.

The Dagestani Eagle

Morrison J wrote: »

There really is so much wrong with British boxing. How Sky sell these fights is gone beyond a joke, it's pure propaganda and every single time there's people who lap it up. Will people ever cop on to it? Surely it eventually gets to a point where people tune out.

Having every pundit under the sun tip Bellew during the week is one thing but even continuing it during the fight after people have bought the PPV is something else. Haye talking as if Bellew was putting on a total clinic the first four rounds, Froch giving any Usyk round as a 10-10, Adam Smith making you think Usyk was on the verge of getting stopped, Paulie Malignaggi the only one who brought any sanity to the broadcast.

Then there's judges cards again. How anyone could've had Bellew three up there is just amazing and has sadly become the norm in the UK now.

It's all getting very tiring I think. Give me a good card on Showtime or ESPN over in the States any day over this. They don't dress it up to be anything but what it is.

i always knew we were getting our collars felt, but last night really rammed it home. They are all on the payroll and in on the con.Sad state of affairs when IFL tv ask all the tough questions

walshb

The judges cards...

What was wrong with them, Morrison? You are constantly giving out about judges cards..

Three judges...Steve Gray? Is he British...?

Other two were non British, and one had it level and the other had Bellew 1 up...I think this is right...

Lot of the rds could be argued for Bellew, so 3 up is hardly wrong...foreign judge had this card.

You always seem to think there’s skullduggery going on....more so for Sky cards and fighters...

Morrison J

walshb wrote: »

The judges cards...

What was wrong with them, Morrison? You are constantly giving out about judges cards..

Three judges...Steve Gray? Is he British...?

Other two were non British, and one had it level and the other had Bellew 1 up...I think this is right...

Lot of the rds could be argued for Bellew, so 3 up is hardly wrong...foreign judge had this card.

You always seem to think there’s skullduggery going on....more so for Sky cards and fighters...

I've just sick of the A-side always getting the benefit of any doubt on the cards every single time. There isn't an even playing field on Matchroom shows and I reckon it goes far beyond what nationality the judges are.

It's not only Matchroom either to be fair but they are particularly bad. Usyk was actually massively balls-y agreeing to fight in the UK given he probably needed a KO to win and he's not a renowned puncher. Shows how confident he was that he's levels above Bellew I suppose.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

As far as I’m concerned Groves is all but finished...

Bellew did well last night. Just ran out of steam...nice looped left to end it..

As I thought he wore Bellew down, but for many rds he was not at all clearly superior. One could argue several rds for Bellew.

Just not really overawed by Usyk...

Strange to analyze and assess. Very robotic and stiff, even if he has good feet and balance. His punching is very bland..

Usyk was the ring general, but for large parts of the fight he was missing shots..

Up at HW? Not at all confident he’d beat the best there...

Is anyone surprised a man in his last ever fight started well ?
He had no chance, he gave it so much he was blowing out his arse by the 7th without ever really troubling Usyk,
Once the burst ended he got blow away ,

Usyk is a fantastic boxer but to small for the real deal Heavy weights

megadodge

I'm not medically qualified, but I honestly thought Bellew showed enough signs of being concussed in the immediate post-fight interview that a doctor or someone in authority should have cut the interview short and had him medically assessed.

It was uncomfortable viewing to say the least.

walshb

But isn’t every boxer that suffers a head shot(s) in a way somewhat concussed?

Concussion, of course requires a medical diagnosis...

I could be wrong, but I thought he was no different than any other boxer who would have been interviewed after a KO/TKO loss...

Plus, you don’t need to be knocked out, dropped or even hit all that hard to suffer possible concussion..

And KO doesn’t actually “always” mean that you are knocked out, as in unconscious...it’s just words to describe a manner of victory.

I’ll watch it again, but apart from his asking what rd it was and mistaking the booing of Eddie for that of Usyk, he was very clear and lucid and articulate...

Btw, I am not saying he wasn’t concussed. He probably was. But you could argue that for any boxer who has taken shots to the head. Usyk included here...

Do the authorities ban all post fight ring interviews until the boxers are medically assessed?

walshb

I also didn’t find it uncomfortable viewing....

Had his speech been slow and slurred and eyes drowsy/glazed I’d ageee...