Waterford becoming Munsters second city.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

That doesn't take away from the fact that the car is still dominant and the cities are still full of them.

That really was not my experience when I spent a week there this summer, with the exception of The Hague which was an unpleasant city full of cars.

I spent time in Amsterdam, Utrecht, Nijmegen, Rotterdam and The Hague and cycled from city to city (sometimes taking the train), racking up a few hundred kilometres. On only a handful of occasions I had to share the road with cars (in the Hague).

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

That really was not my experience when I spent a week there this summer, with the exception of The Hague which was an unpleasant city full of cars.

I spent time in Amsterdam, Utrecht, Nijmegen, Rotterdam and The Hague and cycled from city to city (sometimes taking the train), racking up a few hundred kilometres. On only a handful of occasions I had to share the road with cars (in the Hague).

I didn't say that there were conflicts. Obviously the Netherlands has actual proper cycling infrastructure which keeps them segregated. What I said was that the streets were still full of cars.

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

I didn't say that there were conflicts. Obviously the Netherlands has actual proper cycling infrastructure which keeps them segregated. What I said was that the streets were still full of cars.

They're not though. Certainly not the town or city centres. There's very few cars in them. Have you been?

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

They're not though. Certainly not the town or city centres. There's very few cars in them. Have you been?

In Amsterdam you can drive all along the canals. There are cars parked everywhere. You can drive from Centraal Station up to Dam Square. Yes there are plenty of pedestrianised streets and squares, but there are cars everywhere too. I was also in Arnhem and Nijmegan. I saw better cycling faciltiies (and public transport) than we're used to, but I didn't dare jaywalk due to the amount of traffic.

LeoD

Cookiemunster wrote: »

In Amsterdam you can drive all along the canals. There are cars parked everywhere. You can drive from Centraal Station up to Dam Square. Yes there are plenty of pedestrianised streets and squares, but there are cars everywhere too. I was also in Arnhem and Nijmegan. I saw better cycling faciltiies (and public transport) than we're used to, but I didn't dare jaywalk due to the amount of traffic.

The Netherlands is a small country geographically with over 8 million cars - of course you're going to see cars everywhere. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make though? Is it the fact that you saw cars in a Dutch city proof that cycling as a mode of transport doesn't ease congestion therefore Limerick shouldn't be trying too hard to shift some of the 65% car trips currently to cycling? I was in a few different Dutch cities last week and I too saw loads of cars parked by the canals and down narrow streets but I also saw loads of streets with thriving businesses and beautiful homes with people walking and cycling pretty much where ever they wanted to.

panda100

I really don't think talking incessantly about The Nerthelands convinces anyone about changing cycling culture in Limerick

Cookiemunster

LeoD wrote: »

The Netherlands is a small country geographically with over 8 million cars - of course you're going to see cars everywhere. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make though? Is it the fact that you saw cars in a Dutch city proof that cycling as a mode of transport doesn't ease congestion therefore Limerick shouldn't be trying too hard to shift some of the 65% car trips currently to cycling? I was in a few different Dutch cities last week and I too saw loads of cars parked by the canals and down narrow streets but I also saw loads of streets with thriving businesses and beautiful homes with people walking and cycling pretty much where ever they wanted to.

Look if you want to continue to put words in my mouth, then that's your own problem, but I do wish you'd stop. I've already said that I think money should be invested in better infrastructure, but if you want to ignore that work away.

Limericks streets not thriving has got nothing to do with the lack of cycling facilities. It's actually very easy to get into Limerick city center even without those facilities. All those Dutch cities have high density residential in the city centers. Limerick and other Irish cities don't. That is what is needed in Ireland to reduce peoples car dependency and increase the footfall on city streets. Cycling and better PT help but they're not the be all and end all.

LeoD

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Cycling and better PT help but they're not the be all and end all.

True, to a degree, so I'll leave it at that.

LeoD

panda100 wrote: »

I really don't think talking incessantly about The Nerthelands convinces anyone about changing cycling culture in Limerick

Thanks for calling time on my conversation with Cookiemunster. If you want to be the arbiter of any other discussions I'm having, feel free to jump in there also.

panda100

LeoD wrote: »

Thanks for calling time on my conversation with Cookiemunster. If you want to be the arbiter of any other discussions I'm having, feel free to jump in there also.

Well has talking incessantly about how great cycling in the Nerthelands is convinced anyone ever in Ireland to change cycling culture here? I imagine most people roll their eyes when a cycle campaigner drones on about how amazing utrecht is. I know I do

zulutango

That probably says more about you than the cycle campaigner.

yop

Lads take it to the cycling forum or another thread as this is turning into more of a cycling discussion. Thks

tototoe

zulutango wrote: »

That really was not my experience when I spent a week there this summer, with the exception of The Hague which was an unpleasant city full of cars.

I spent time in Amsterdam, Utrecht, Nijmegen, Rotterdam and The Hague and cycled from city to city (sometimes taking the train), racking up a few hundred kilometres. On only a handful of occasions I had to share the road with cars (in the Hague).

I lived in Venlo for a while, and spent a while in Eindhoven,. Plenty of car usage everywhere, a lot of people where I worked drove to work, because it was a good bit outside the town... and yes there loads of bikes, but as many drove.

However, as an extremely flat country, like really, really flat...it makes it all that much easier. Cycling in Ireland, is and always will be different....even taking cycle lanes and all that into account.

Try cycling Limerick to Shannon every day ( even traffic aside) its a complete pain in the ass..literally.

Mc Love

Mc Love wrote: »

No it just adds more traffic. More roads doesnt mean less gridlock. They need to encourage more people use public transport, provide safer cycling infrastructure and entice motorists to switch from the car to the bike as if improving your health isnt enticement enough.

This just goes to show that adding more lanes/roads doesnt mean less traffic

https://twitter.com/StreetsblogUSA/status/1065248476219523072?s=20

kilburn

Oh dear another train wreck thread in the Limerick forum which has descended into An Taisce brigade v everyone else......

damowill

yop wrote: »

Lads take it to the cycling forum or another thread as this is turning into more of a cycling discussion. Thks

should have been taken to the Waterford thread to begin with!!

Mc Love

Mc Love wrote: »

This just goes to show that adding more lanes/roads doesnt mean less traffic

https://twitter.com/StreetsblogUSA/status/1065248476219523072?s=20

Another great article that states what the motoring lobby can't see
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/11/californias-dot-admits-that-more-roads-mean-more-traffic/415245/

WillieMason

http://www.munster-express.ie/business/ceo-north-quays-funding-is-safe/

Cookiemunster

WillieMason wrote: »

http://www.munster-express.ie/business/ceo-north-quays-funding-is-safe/

Still not going to make Waterford bigger than Limerick. Limerick has €180m in place for the Limerick 2030 plan which includes 3 pedestrian bridges!


Look best of luck to Waterford, but it's not going to overtake Limerick any time soon.