How many is too many.

Birdnuts

J.R. wrote: »

I think the ploughing of the stubble & replanting in October has an awful lot to do with the holding capacity of a field to retain birds. When these fields are ploughed and planted then very little wildlife remains - it's like a sterile environment - there are no pickings left.

I would notice a huge difference in the last few years in the holding capacity of the ground we hunt. More landowners are removing ditches, draining ponds and marshy area and then after harvest plant the whole lot again in autumn....birds are not staying - stray easily and do not return when they find better, more natural ground.

The old custom of leaving areas of ground fallow ever fourth year, allowing it to rest and rejuvenate seems to have disappeared.

That was my earlier point about winter tillage versus Spring tillage - the former just doesn't provide anything for wild birds to get through the winter:(

Birdnuts

Eddie B wrote: »

I think a major part of the problem is lack of insects in this country. The use of pesticides is literally killing the countryside, and most dont even realise whats happening. Insects are vital for game bird chicks, and wildlife as a whole. Years ago, you'd go for a drive on a summers day, and your windscreen would be dotted with insects. That just doesn't happen anymore.

Here's an interesting read on the subject

http://www.biodiversityireland.ie/where-have-all-the-insects-gone/

Yeah - I'm old enough to remember those days. Also been to parts of Eastern Europe that have so far escaped the worst of intensive farming and the difference is like night and day...

dodderangler

Cass wrote: »

This comes up each year and between lads telling me and seeing pictures i'm wondering what are people's opinions on bag limits or how many do you consider too many. Or do you even have a limit?

One chap had, iirc, a bag of 27 on the first morning. Now i'm not judging, and if the club or land he is on allows for it, and they're used then so be it.

I gave up pheasant shooting some years back. No particular reason, just stopped. However i don't begrudge lads shooting one or ten, but throughout the year i've seen plenty of threads about pheasant numbers being down, and how scarce they are, yet here we have the first week and lads are shooting (not everyone, only those posting about it) like they're going out of fashion.

My only disagreement is that these pheasants are basically hand reared and tame and I hear stories of lads with semi autos bragging about the 3rd shot kill. If you miss with two then let him live. My opinion.
Now a proper wild pheasant will duck and dodge you for hours now that's a hunt. So like stocked trout in a river =kill em all on sight. But cherish the real wild animals. That's what memories are made of. I only disagree on lads shooting 3+ woodcock a day. Any more is bragging rights.
Again it's my opinion not looking for argument

cavan shooter

I'd say 3 is plenty.

rugerfanatic

Interesting thread.

In my experience bag limits will only be adhered to by some and you rely on lads honesty which not all are.

Hunter456

on a certain FB page this topic opens a massive can of worms, i hammer foxes all threw the year i think lads who go out and control vermin should be not be criticized for taking a few extra birds but you'll get lads complaining even for that. ive 6 pheasants shot this season and they are as plentiful as ever around here. all this crap about buzzards taking all the birds is pure horse **** yes they might take one or 2 we have 3 buzzards around here and they are fantastic to watch, get out and do some vermin control corvids and foxes are the main contributor to taken poults during brooding.

Captainaxiom

Hunter456 wrote: »

on a certain FB page this topic opens a massive can of worms, i hammer foxes all threw the year i think lads who go out and control vermin should be not be criticized for taking a few extra birds but you'll get lads complaining even for that. ive 6 pheasants shot this season and they are as plentiful as ever around here. all this crap about buzzards taking all the birds is pure horse **** yes they might take one or 2 we have 3 buzzards around here and they are fantastic to watch, get out and do some vermin control corvids and foxes are the main contributor to taken poults during brooding.

Any fellas I hear bitching and moaning about buzzards killing everything are the same fellas who wouldn't go out lamping foxes if it was to save their lives.
Young lads trying to join gun clubs (the lads that have the time to be out half the night lamping) are been refused entry and not made welcome when they show an interest. It's mind bogglingly stupid

Benny mcc

Last two are spot on.anyone can breed a pheasant but who can breed a hen harryer or buzzard . One mention of a buzzard might kill a pheasant and let's shoot it but tell same lads get out and sort the Fox, grey crow and mag .. can't be arsed. Yes I know lots of shooters do what they can but most don't and thems the ones that shouts the loudest. In my area anyway. Rant over

Uinseann_16

Captainaxiom wrote: »

Any fellas I hear bitching and moaning about buzzards killing everything are the same fellas who wouldn't go out lamping foxes if it was to save their lives.
Young lads trying to join gun clubs (the lads that have the time to be out half the night lamping) are been refused entry and not made welcome when they show an interest. It's mind bogglingly stupid

Was chatting to a lad about this he couldnt understand how i would much rather shoot foxes than go out after a pheasant :P the types of lads your talking about are the reason im not in a gun club, i dont need to be its mostly rifle shooting i do and at a rough estimate ive got about 5000 acres of permissions dotted around the place most the gun club arnt even in:D
IMHO about pheasants their not native i dont like them if i had a choice id eradicate them all and put all the effort thats put into the dirty b*sterds into reintroducing and reinforcing populations of corncrakes,partridge,grouse and the like. different strokes for different folks i suppose
Was also told recently by one of those type of lads theres no sport in shooting deer, the only sporting shooting was pheasants and woodcock:rolleyes:

Birdnuts

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

IMHO about pheasants their not native i dont like them if i had a choice id eradicate them all and put all the effort thats put into the dirty b*sterds into reintroducing and reinforcing populations of corncrakes,partridge,grouse and the like. different strokes for different folks i suppose
:

On that note its good to see the NARGC rolling out more support and funding for extra partridge and grouse projects over the next few years along the lines of the Boora, Boleyback projects etc. Must give credit too the NARGC lads helping us with our Curlew project that in only 2 years has produced impressive results for many ground nesting birds.

minktrapper

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Was chatting to a lad about this he couldnt understand how i would much rather shoot foxes than go out after a pheasant :P the types of lads your talking about are the reason im not in a gun club, i dont need to be its mostly rifle shooting i do and at a rough estimate ive got about 5000 acres of permissions dotted around the place most the gun club arnt even in:D
IMHO about pheasants their not native i dont like them if i had a choice id eradicate them all and put all the effort thats put into the dirty b*sterds into reintroducing and reinforcing populations of corncrakes,partridge,grouse and the like. different strokes for different folks i suppose
Was also told recently by one of those type of lads theres no sport in shooting deer, the only sporting shooting was pheasants and woodcock:rolleyes:

Well said. Will partridge survive with modern agricultural practices.

Birdnuts

minktrapper wrote: »

Well said. Will partridge survive with modern agricultural practices.

Your certainly need co-operative landowners/farmers that will provide spring tillage, cover crops, beetlle strips etc. for the birds. Thats why we need better Agri-environment schemes that encourage such things. The current GLAS birdcover measure is a start but alot more could be done by the government when it comes to spending CAP money at farm level.

Eddie B

minktrapper wrote: »

Well said. Will partridge survive with modern agricultural practices.

In my opinion, the answer to that is a big fat NO

minktrapper

I think myself that all farmers should have to plant some sort of game crop. And most of them wouldn't mind doing it. Fencing it off would probably be the biggest problem.

Benny mcc

It's all just pointless dreaming unless we have every one on board.farmers ,shooters the lot

Capercaillie

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Was chatting to a lad about this he couldnt understand how i would much rather shoot foxes than go out after a pheasant :P the types of lads your talking about are the reason im not in a gun club, i dont need to be its mostly rifle shooting i do and at a rough estimate ive got about 5000 acres of permissions dotted around the place most the gun club arnt even in:D
IMHO about pheasants their not native i dont like them if i had a choice id eradicate them all and put all the effort thats put into the dirty b*sterds into reintroducing and reinforcing populations of corncrakes,partridge,grouse and the like. different strokes for different folks i suppose
Was also told recently by one of those type of lads theres no sport in shooting deer, the only sporting shooting was pheasants and woodcock:rolleyes:

It takes a lot of effort to manage populations of corncrake, grey partridge and red grouse. Not many people willing to put in that amount of effort. Much easier to release semi-tame non-native pheasants for shooting!!

Half-cocked

Hunter456 wrote: »

all this crap about buzzards taking all the birds is pure horse **** yes they might take one or 2 we have 3 buzzards around here and they are fantastic to watch,

We've 2 resident breeding pairs of buzzards on our patch, so there are usually between 2 and 4 juveniles knocking around too (back in August I counted 9 in total sitting in one field!). Despite all these buzzards being around, our pheasant returns are pretty much consistent from year to year going right back to before the buzzards moved in. There's minor ups and downs from year to year and this year isn't doing too good but I don't blame the buzzards. I also released 80 mallard back at the end of July. They spent their days grazing in barley stubble right under the buzzards and come Nov 1st I still had 80 mallard (we don't shoot the ducks until pheasant season kicks off). Only time I had trouble with the buzzards was one Summer when they started roosting in a tree growing in our release pen - had to climb up and hang old CD's on twine from the branches, that made them move to a new roost.

grassroot1

This is a thread about personal views on how many birds a hunter needs to achieve a satisfactory bag
I find it very interesting that it has turned into a defence of the buzzard.

Half-cocked

grassroot1 wrote: »

This is a thread about personal views on how many birds a hunter needs to achieve a satisfactory bag
I find it very interesting that it has turned into a defence of the buzzard.

Guilty as charged!

Back OT, if you put a lot of work into a shoot, you should be allowed reap the rewards. But common sense would dictate not shooting too may early on so as to have birds left throughout the season. But usually some others who haven't done a tap of work all year will hoover up all the birds before Christmas:mad:

Hunter456

grassroot1 wrote: »

This is a thread about personal views on how many birds a hunter needs to achieve a satisfactory bag
I find it very interesting that it has turned into a defence of the buzzard.

That might have being my fault but I just made a point on how lads blame different things for not having a good season. Back on to the topic just knocked my 53rd fox and 10th off the bait station I set up a few weeks ago.