FTTH installation equipment ONT / ODP / Wireless Routers etc...

babi-hrse

Several times I've seen the 7560 red caddy fritzbox decrease snr ratio. I'd test the line with Megger signal comes through at 10.7db download signal (something acceptable)
Plug the other in and it wouldn't lock drop 10meg and sure she locks and have 9.8db (barely acceptable) and could do with shaving another few megs off download signal.
Could have been a couple of bad boxes or maybe the thing works differently but it's unusual to see a router affect the snr. I only noticed it because people would ring me after I left their house saying it's still not locking on and a test would indicate slightly too much noise on line stopping it from locking.
Course on fibre this snr thing isn't an issue but it was something I'd come across on copper.
Any thoughts marlow?

Andy From Sligo

digiman wrote: »

You wouldn't believe how many customers cancel their service because of "looks"*

For the majority on this forum it's probably not a big factor but we are not are a fair measure of the general public.

Also, it is possible to get your own ONT authenticated if you knew what you were doing but it could stand out against every other ONT and would be up against the risk of being manually booted of the network, although that's probably unlikely.

*cant tell whether you serious or not

I wont be fussed myself I just want FTTH so badly at the moment that even if the router looks like a kids toy - but if the facility was there and the telco / isp allowed me too even though though the generic HG8245 in only N wireless i would love to order one in and give it a go , am only getting the 150mbps and theoretically the 802.11n is supposed to transmit up to 300mbps on the wlan - but no, not if is at the expense of it not connecting to the OLT .. or getting booted off fibre or degrading neighbours service . I will just stick with whats given .

Johnboy1951

digiman wrote: »

You wouldn't believe how many customers cancel their service because of "looks"

Possibly I would find it hard to believe ..... but for now I have no idea. Do you have some figures from a reliable source to post.

For the majority on this forum it's probably not a big factor but we are not are a fair measure of the general public.

Quite obviously those people are not at all concerned about their broadband connection or how well it can perform.

Probably a lot of the same people will complain to the ISP because their WIFI is not good in the home.

ISPs are better off without them as customers, IMO.
They create hassle for customer service personnel and bad mouth the service even though the problem is their own.

Marlow

babi-hrse wrote: »

Several times I've seen the 7560 red caddy fritzbox decrease snr ratio. I'd test the line with Megger signal comes through at 10.7db download signal (something acceptable)
Plug the other in and it wouldn't lock drop 10meg and sure she locks and have 9.8db (barely acceptable) and could do with shaving another few megs off download signal.

Go to http://192.168.178.1/support.lua on the Fritz!Box, log in again and run a DSL Diagnostic.

It's a hidden menu with extra diagnostic functions. Works on all models. There's also a DSL Line Test option.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Possibly I would find it hard to believe ..... but for now I have no idea. Do you have some figures from a reliable source to post.



Quite obviously those people are not at all concerned about their broadband connection or how well it can perform.

Probably a lot of the same people will complain to the ISP because their WIFI is not good in the home.

ISPs are better off without them as customers, IMO.
They create hassle for customer service personnel and bad mouth the service even though the problem is their own.

on the other side of the coin the customer service for some ISP's is absolutely abominable! = tech people blaming customers for poor internet on peoples routers most of the time . The obligitory " its all testing fine our end" customers get a lot of the time from the tech support on the phone. they get the customer to unplug the router and plug it back in , get them to move their computer nearer the phone socket and to plug the ethernet lan cable directly from the lan socket on the router cutting out wireless and its still bad .

Over the years I have had callouts on bad slow internet (this stems back from Dial-Ups to ADSL) where tech's have said "its testing OK our end , it must be your router or your computer".

Well I have turned up - plugged in my laptop done speed tests and they have been lousy and it hasnt always been wireless routers at fault , sometimes it has (where the router has been placed , next to filing cabinets or thick walls / fllors) - no , most of the time it has been quality of the line . a few times a faulty master socket - a couple of times water had ingressed into the junction box on the wooden pole outside their house ... but oh no, the Customer support people had told them that it was a problem with the customers router/wireless router or their computer .

I even had my fixed wireless provider on a couple of times say that there was nothing wrong when my internet went right down to under 1mbps download - turned out in the end they had to push a new firmware to my outside dish unit and that solved that - another time a alternative providers signal at the mountains mast was walking over the signal or affecting the signal to my dish and degrading the service , once they switched me over to another channel it was fine but on both those occasions they were saying it was a problem my end and was getting me to do the disconnect my wi-fi router malarky and plug it straight into the ethernet even though I had already done all that that before i phoned them up with the problem.

I know this thread is about fibre FTTH , sometimes in the past ISP technical support is shocking sometimes people have had to put up with bad ADSL connection when its been a problem back at the exchange, or wiring from the pole to the house, or water getting in connections or sometimes there has been a whole area thats had problems and people have phoned them and the tech hasnt even known about the problem in the area ... and just get the customers to do the powering of and on of the router!

Marlow

Look at it from the providers perspective:

9 out of 10 calls about speed on a support hotline, it's wifi problems. Not broadband problems. Or self-introduced problems by using powerline adapters, which are the pits.

And it's people that don't understand, that they have to test on a cable and ensure, that no other traffic is being used, while they test (as in switch the wifi on the router off).

A decent ISP will have the tools to test the line properly and also for a fixed wireless provider to test from the antenna on the customers roof to the edge of their network.

If they can't do that, then that's sad.

But the majority of issues that people have are wifi interference (cattle cams, baby cams, rogue video senders, other wifi routers on the same channel, insulation, placing the router on a metal object .. like a filing cabinet .. etc. etc. etc. etc)

So because the consumer instantly blames the provider for any issue without doing any troubleshooting themselves and doesn't follow a simple set of instructions on how to test, you will find that some support staff instantly tell the customer to do proper testing first.

Also .. consumers seem to be obsessed with their broadband speed. I agree, that if it dips to 1 Mbit/s, then that's an issue. But if you only see 30 our of maybe 100 Mbit/s, it may be a good plan to find out, if that bandwidth is being used on your end and not instantly pick up the phone, call the provider and threaten them with cancellation. That's what the majority do.

That that's not the way it should be, that's one story. But consumer ignorance is actually what is pushing that behavior.

/M

ED E

BArra wrote: »

have a look here Andy - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057927096

Mother of God, is nothing sacred.

BArra

the future OLT on Andys wall certainly isn't

Marlow

BArra wrote: »

the future OLT on Andys wall certainly isn't

ONT.

Beware, if he got access to the OLT in the exchange.

/M

BArra

ONT*

Doh~

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

Look at it from the providers perspective:

9 out of 10 calls about speed on a support hotline, it's wifi problems. Not broadband problems. Or self-introduced problems by using powerline adapters, which are the pits.

And it's people that don't understand, that they have to test on a cable and ensure, that no other traffic is being used, while they test (as in switch the wifi on the router off).

A decent ISP will have the tools to test the line properly and also for a fixed wireless provider to test from the antenna on the customers roof to the edge of their network.

If they can't do that, then that's sad.

But the majority of issues that people have are wifi interference (cattle cams, baby cams, rogue video senders, other wifi routers on the same channel, insulation, placing the router on a metal object .. like a filing cabinet .. etc. etc. etc. etc)

So because the consumer instantly blames the provider for any issue without doing any troubleshooting themselves and doesn't follow a simple set of instructions on how to test, you will find that some support staff instantly tell the customer to do proper testing first.

Also .. consumers seem to be obsessed with their broadband speed. I agree, that if it dips to 1 Mbit/s, then that's an issue. But if you only see 30 our of maybe 100 Mbit/s, it may be a good plan to find out, if that bandwidth is being used on your end and not instantly pick up the phone, call the provider and threaten them with cancellation. That's what the majority do.

That that's not the way it should be, that's one story. But consumer ignorance is actually what is pushing that behavior.

/M

ah your always going to get people / consumers bad mouth service / products / companies / whatever - it stems back to the "the customer is always right" thing... even if they are wrong

I have had it over the years I have repaired and sold Dell PC's and laptops . they have been fine but you might have had someone with a faulty one or a piece of software goes wron or the O/S (windows) has a problem and its like "I am never gonna buy a Dell computer ever again they are ****e!" - and they tell their friends and family not to buy a dell PC (it does happen with other makes by the way) ... but now I hear , even just the other day from someone who posted up on facebook "oh, dont go with eir for broadband they are a bunch of <expletives> use someone else " - I suppose if thats a big firm they might be able to suffer it , if its a small firm local FTTH ISP supplier and got a bad name it could put them out of business . - I suppose it is always going to be like that, that even if you try to do everything right , if they have it in their head that your crap or offering a poor service they will let you know about it ... or maybe not let you know about it and go somewhere else .. but will let others know like their families and friends and people on facebook and twitter know!

Andy From Sligo

BArra wrote: »

the future OLT on Andys wall certainly isn't

that's hypothetical in 2 ways .. its an ONT and number 2 I havent got any ONT on my wall (at the moment)

Andy From Sligo

its a shame the ONT's dont work in the same way as a ADSL router does in the respect of you plug it into a Tel master socket and on the ADSL router it 'trains' as it looks for an ADSL signal for about a minute and then connects to the ADSL

See with my limited knowledge on how ONT's worked (before I was told numerous times over and over again by boards members until my ears bled) that the ONT's are registered by serial number on the OLT .. I originally thought that you plug your patch cable from the ODP into your ONT , and the PON light flashes and after a while locks onto the signal .. thats what I originally thought happened

BArra

that's why I said future Andy, and I think everybody who reads this forum is looking forward to you getting connected

lets hope there are no issues with your install when the time comes, how unfortunate would it be to have an issue causing a failed install for you

Andy From Sligo

BArra wrote: »

that's why I said future Andy, and I think everybody who reads this forum is looking forward to you getting connected

lets hope there are no issues with your install when the time comes, how unfortunate would it be to have an issue causing a failed install for you

my bad - I didnt see the future bit

yep - i am normally an optimist , but even i have set myself up for a failed installation - have heard of so many people getting failed after failed installation for one reason or other and my luck lately I can just hear the voices in my head saying "your duct is blocked" or "there is no light at the DP" or "there is an ongoing technical problem at the exchange" .. I am even convincing myself that I am not going to get it installed for christmas because there has been so many delays in our area for fibre that I will only believe I have it when the equipment is on the wall and all correct lights are flashing and that I can get pages on the Internet .... then I will believe it!

would you believe an eir rep came to our front door in August i think it was and said "Fibre is now live in the area - shall I sign you up for FTTH?" and i said how long until its fitted and he said "3 weeks wait because we have a rush of orders!"

Andy From Sligo

BArra wrote: »

have a look here Andy - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057927096

thanks for pointing me to that .


Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
- Vodafone: Lottery of A) HG658(Old, slow) B)HG659 (less slow) C) Gigastation/Powerstation SHG3000 (v.Nice on paper)
- Eir: Huawei HG659
- Digiweb: Fritz!Box
- Sky: Sky Q box (Unique to Sky)

- Airwire: Fritz!Box, Mikrotik or your own (if compatible)
- BBNet: Mikrotik
- Carnsore Broadband: Fritz!Box
- Fastcom: Fritz!Box
- Net1: Fritz!Box
- Pure Telecom: Technicolor
- Westnet: Fritz!Box

I'm using a vodafone HG659 at the moment on my system on fixed wireless going through the WAN socket - its an OK router. wireless strength wise and is Dual Band 802.11ac

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

its a shame the ONT's dont work in the same way as a ADSL router does in the respect of you plug it into a Tel master socket and on the ADSL router it 'trains' as it looks for an ADSL signal for about a minute and then connects to the ADSL

Erh .. and you do know, how unreliable ADSL is in regards to speeds etc., right ?

Exactly that right there is the reason, why it's done once, correct and to a quality standard. So that you have reliable internet with a cosistent physical data transfer speed, when it comes to FTTH.

And with greater distance (20km FTTH, 5km max ADSL, 2km max VDSL) and then multiple subscriber on the same circuit, you have to work to a higher quality standard.

So .. your aim is, that for your own convenience, you want to degrade peoples service.

/M

tuxy

Andy have a look into GPON, why a passive system is used and the advantages of the passive system. You're only looking at the negative side of a passive system.

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

Erh .. and you do know, how unreliable ADSL is in regards to speeds etc., right ?

Exactly that right there is the reason, why it's done once, correct and to a quality standard. So that you have reliable internet with a cosistent physical data transfer speed, when it comes to FTTH.

And with greater distance (20km FTTH, 5km max ADSL, 2km max VDSL) and then multiple subscriber on the same circuit, you have to work to a higher quality standard.

So .. your aim is, that for your own convenience, you want to degrade peoples service.

/M

no, stop putting words in my mouth - I dont want to degrade anyones service - I am just saying that with an ADSL router it looks for ADSL signal then locks onto it and i thought before with an ONT it searched for Gpon and didnt need to register the ONT serial number with the OLT - why are you being so pedantic particularly with my posts?

I get it - you know more than me when it comes to FTTH infrastructure - good!

Marlow

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

no, stop putting words in my mouth - I dont want to degrade anyones service - I am just saying that with an ADSL router it looks for ADSL signal then locks onto it and i thought before with an ONT it searched for Gpon and didnt need to register the ONT serial number with the OLT

That's fine for xDSL, where the router has a direct connection to the DSLAM and it can optimize for that one device.

That does not work, when you have to accomodate up to 128 devices on the same path. You can't have them all talk at different speeds/modes etc.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

- why are you being so pedantic particularly with my posts?

Because you so pedanticly ignore everything you're told, don't do any thorough research yourself, expect to be spoon fed information and then discard it a page later making the same suggestions again because the answers didn't suit you.

That may be ok once, but you do it all the time and constant. It's like goes in one side and right through out on the other side.

Even that wouldn't be a problem, if you applied a bit common sense. But you don't. You get an idea and you stick with it. No matter how stupid it is and no matter how much nonsense technically it is.

/M

Marlow

Not only that. People have posted quotes here, that were previous answers to your questions ... and you confirmed yourself that you either didn't read them or didn't read up on the matter afterwards.

You also ask questions, that are answered elsewhere on the boards broadband forum within the last week. Which means, you didn't read those either (like what router for what ISP ... that's a fresh thread, going a few days). So you never do any research before you ask.

You then throw insulting comments at people that follow from the other thread to give you more personal enlightenment.

Which tells us one thing: you don't give a darn about the people responding to you here. Or the actual technology in question.

/M

Andy From Sligo

Marlow wrote: »

That's fine for xDSL, where the router has a direct connection to the DSLAM and it can optimize for that one device.

That does not work, when you have to accomodate up to 128 devices on the same path. You can't have them all talk at different speeds/modes etc.



Because you so pedanticly ignore everything you're told, don't do any thorough research yourself, expect to be spoon fed information and then discard it a page later making the same suggestions again because the answers didn't suit you.

That may be ok once, but you do it all the time and constant. It's like goes in one side and right through out on the other side.

Even that wouldn't be a problem, if you applied a bit common sense. But you don't. You get an idea and you stick with it. No matter how stupid it is and no matter how much nonsense technically it is.

/M

I cannot understand why you are so passionate that you consider I dont listen to other people if there is something I dont grasp and have to ask a few times over and over again until it sinks in and becomes clear - I bet you would be great working around someone with learning difficulties.

listen at the end of the day I will be an end user member of the public when I finally do get FTTH installed . i might just end up hoping when i log onto 802.11n or AC that I just get a nice fast internet experience on my laptop or phone whatever - do i have to really know the ins and outs or how gpon works -I have sketchy knowlege that its passive network and that gpon is shared whereas the more expensive fibre (cant remember what its called but its the more expensive way of delivering FTTP for businesses ) and if I want to go do more research I will . But (and i feel like I have repeated this over and over again) for people who are getting fed up with me asking the same questions over and over again, and are getting annoyed and think I am not taking it in or ignoring suggestions stop wasting your time and answering posts and let someone else fill me in who dont mind taking the time to repeat the answers or getting upset if i dont understand or think I am asking to be spoon fed. please - for christs sakes can you not keep constantly dictating to me what I should and not keep doing, trying to shut me up and telling me to go off and research .

I repair computers for a living over the years - i repeat over and over again on the phone and in person face to face where people dont understand about computers - I dunno maybe I have got more patience than you ,, but that would be like me saying "your not taking my advice" and that "you keep asking the same questions" and getting fed up with them or tell them that I am not going to spoon feed them and that to go off and do research themselves.

tuxy

Andy why is it that whenever you ask a questions and someone points you in the right direction to get an answer you come back and ask the same question, when this is pointed out you always say "opps I guess I forgot to look that up lol".
Not once have you come back and said hey I've looked that up and have some new questions on the parts I don't understand.
It's always the same questions followed by "oh that's networking I don't know about that" followed by "ah that's just jargon" followed by some more questions you keep asking over and over.

Johnboy1951

if there is something I dont grasp and have to ask a few times over and over again until it sinks in

I suggest that instead of repeating the question over and over, much to the annoyance of many, that you simply re-read the answers already given - as many times as you find it necessary - for it to sink in.

Andy From Sligo

tuxy wrote: »

Andy why is it that whenever you ask a questions and someone points you in the right direction to get an answer you come back and ask the same question, when this is pointed out you always say "opps I guess I forgot to look that up lol".
Not once have you come back and said hey I've looked that up and have some new questions on the parts I don't understand.
It's always the same questions followed by "oh that's networking I don't know about that" followed by "ah that's just jargon" followed by some more questions you keep asking over and over.

there is no hideden agenda - when i keep asking the same questions do you think it is because i still dont understand , havent grappled it or think I have missed something ... or do you think I am trolling or trying to wind people up on purpose? - please answer me that?

And of course i go off and search but a lot of it is so technical I cannot grasp it so I ask people on a boards group like this because a lot of the time I am hoping people can explain things better than serching on google and just coming across technical data that would just go over a load of people's heads or too in depth for what you need

fritzelly

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

(before I was told numerous times over and over again by boards members until my ears bled)

Think it was myself that said start a new thread about it.
And this thread has been a good read!

You seem to gloss over the answers to the questions, completely ignore the reasons surrounding the answers and then proceed to ask the question "but why" after being told the why.
Many here have given the exact reasons but you still continue to argue against them and these are people who are very much in the know.

OE provide a serviceable internet connection (ONT) to the house. Whatever happens after that is the consumer or ISP's problem
If they have to start servicing a single unit for every provider then ...well it's already been explained.

Andy From Sligo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I suggest that instead of repeating the question over and over, much to the annoyance of many, that you simply re-read the answers already given - as many times as you find it necessary - for it to sink in.

like i havent done that already - it is working though because i know more than when I first started asking questions so something must be sinking in .

on the replacing the ONT ideally I would like someone to actually have a go at physically putting on something like the HG8245 in place of the supplied ONT and get back with details of what happened , did it work, did it connect or not connect etc, but thats not going to happen so theoretically because (as far as I know) no-one has physically tried it and have to go with that the ONT' serial numbers are all tied to the OLT and that only those ONT's and no other ONT will work (I have to bow to their expertise on the matter I suppose)

fritzelly

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

like i havent done that already - it is working though because i know more than when I first started asking questions so something must be sinking in .

on the replacing the ONT ideally I would like someone to actually have a go at physically putting on something like the HG8245 in place of the supplied ONT and get back with details of what happened , did it work, did it connect or not connect etc, but thats not going to happen so theoretically because (as far as I know) no-one has physically tried it and have to go with that the ONT' serial numbers are all tied to the OLT and that only those ONT's and no other ONT will work (I have to bow to their expertise on the matter I suppose)

How may times have you been told the ONT is serial registered for a connection
Anything else popped in there won't work
Geez

Every DP port is allocated to an address, the ONT is then registered to that DP - end of story, you cannot start using your own hardware to start communicating with OE's exchange servers.

In fact if you did then you would be interfering with their network and there are repurcussions for that.

Johnboy1951

(I have to bow to their expertise on the matter I suppose)

Yes you do ..... why else ask questions and not accept the answers from those who work in the industry?

uck51js9zml2yt

My ftth is down all evening.
The internet light isn't working on the f2000.

The WiFi light is flashing.
Has anyone any ideas?
I've checked all the connections but everything looks ok.