Galway Ring Road- are there better ways to solve traffic?

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

I don't think they are making a pigs ear of the bypassGalway City Ring Road. I think it's a better more effective scheme than the previously planned N6 Galway City Outer bypass

Really - 5 years and still no Oral Hearing?

The former proposal was a "bypass" in the true sense of the word.

Galway City Ring Road = 50 HOUSES*
N6 Galway City Outer bypass = 8 HOUSES were to be knocked

*(40 knocked+10 will be unsuitable for living due to proximity)

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with putting in a Parkmore junction. I'm saying that the idea that the bypass will not be used for commuting goes out the window by virtue of it having a junction at Parkmore.

Also agree - the Galway City Ring Road will be used for commuting traffic; that is its primary purpose.

cgcsb

SeanW wrote: »

In summary:

Your 5% figure is misleading because it excludes legitimate bypass use. Spiddal to Claregalway or Oughterard to Athlone and other long distance regional combinations are excluded from your 5% figure because users doing these routes would not use the entire bypass. The claim is misleading.

I'm sorry that the facts don't suit the pro bypass argument, but they just don't
As the modelling shows, the vast majority of trips are short distance and have nothing to do with bypassing Galway, as expected since there isn't much to the west of the City. Please see the following trip ends analysis.



https://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20Appendix%20A%20Transport%20Demand.pdf

SeanW wrote: »

[*]It isn't intended to cater to suburban commuters.

Well if that is the case, then it's a €600million euro road scheme to accommodate 300 cars. Ergo, you've spelled out exactly why it's not needed.

SeanW wrote: »

[*]"There are no large settlements ..." is type of circular argument used by drug warriors "drugs are bad because they're illegal, and illegal because they're bad". The Western county is no doubt stunted by the fact that it is not accessible from the rest of the country except by a long detour along Galway city streets.

What does this mean, do you envisage a future where there will be large towns in west Galway? because certainly that goes against pretty much everything we can observe right now, more and more people are living in bigger and bigger cities globally, Ireland is no exception.

SeanW wrote: »

[*]Is the "National Spatial Strategy" to maintain stroads in prepetuity? If so, it should be abandoned.

No, it's about sustainable development and growing cities and large towns, making them more livable. Not adding more cars.

BelfastVanMan

cgcsb wrote: »

SeanW wrote: »

In summary:

Your 5% figure is misleading because it excludes legitimate bypass use. Spiddal to Claregalway or Oughterard to Athlone and other long distance regional combinations are excluded from your 5% figure because users doing these routes would not use the entire bypass. The claim is misleading.

I'm sorry that the facts don't suit the pro bypass argument, but they just don't
As the modelling shows, the vast majority of trips are short distance and have nothing to do with bypassing Galway, as expected since there isn't much to the west of the City. Please see the following trip ends analysis.



https://www.galwaycity.ie/uploads/downloads/news_items/Traffic-Transport/GTS/GTS%20Appendix%20A%20Transport%20Demand.pdf

SeanW wrote: »

[*]It isn't intended to cater to suburban commuters.

Well if that is the case, then it's a €600million euro road scheme to accommodate 300 cars. Ergo, you've spelled out exactly why it's not needed.

SeanW wrote: »

[*]"There are no large settlements ..." is type of circular argument used by drug warriors "drugs are bad because they're illegal, and illegal because they're bad". The Western county is no doubt stunted by the fact that it is not accessible from the rest of the country except by a long detour along Galway city streets.

What does this mean, do you envisage a future where there will be large towns in west Galway? because certainly that goes against pretty much everything we can observe right now, more and more people are living in bigger and bigger cities globally, Ireland is no exception.

SeanW wrote: »

[*]Is the "National Spatial Strategy" to maintain stroads in prepetuity? If so, it should be abandoned.

No, it's about sustainable development and growing cities and large towns, making them more livable. Not adding more cars.

How can you make a city "more livable" if people can't move around it because it's a giant car park?

It's not about building better roads for "adding more cars".... it's about building new roads for the cars, busses and lorries we already have that are choked sitting in gridlock.

If lorries in particular cannot move, then who's going to get anything into the shops? The oil to your house? Ambulances, fire engines, busses, cyclists getting flattened on busy stroads..... the list just goes on!

People ought to think long and hard about their priorities; a few NIMBYs can literally choke a city's growth because of their refusal to accept that badly-needed infrastructure isn't an option if you want to continue enjoying the presumably comfortable lifestyle you've become accustomed to.

cgcsb

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

How can you make a city "more livable" if people can't move around it because it's a giant car park?

It can be made more livable by greatly reducing the number of cars for instance.

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

It's not about building better roads for "adding more cars".... it's about building new roads for the cars, busses and lorries we already have that are choked sitting in gridlock.

Experience around the world shows us that it doesn't work that way, traffic expands to fit the space allocated to it. More road capacity in Cities means more cars. More people chose to travel by car because of the additional convenience.

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

If lorries in particular cannot move, then who's going to get anything into the shops? The oil to your house? Ambulances, fire engines, busses, cyclists getting flattened on busy stroads..... the list just goes on!

Simple, the number of cars can be greatly reduced by taking away street space dedicated to cars and handing it over to sustainable road users, this makes streets safer for cyclists and pedestrians, lorries will continue to use the existing N6 to bypass Galway.

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

People ought to think long and hard about their priorities; a few NIMBYs can literally choke a city's growth because of their refusal to accept that badly-needed infrastructure isn't an option if you want to continue enjoying the presumably comfortable lifestyle you've become accustomed to.

The only badly needed transport infrastructure in Galway is a dedicated network of bus and cycle lanes.

xckjoo

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

How can you make a city "more livable" if people can't move around it because it's a giant car park?

It's not about building better roads for "adding more cars".... it's about building new roads for the cars, busses and lorries we already have that are choked sitting in gridlock.

If lorries in particular cannot move, then who's going to get anything into the shops? The oil to your house? Ambulances, fire engines, busses, cyclists getting flattened on busy stroads..... the list just goes on!

People ought to think long and hard about their priorities; a few NIMBYs can literally choke a city's growth because of their refusal to accept that badly-needed infrastructure isn't an option if you want to continue enjoying the presumably comfortable lifestyle you've become accustomed to.

Nah. We were born with the ability to move without cars. For most of us it's easy and has enormous health benefits over sitting for hours on end. For people with impairments that make walking difficult, I don't know how they currently go about their day in this city. Traffic jams everywhere and then when you get where your going, poor pedestrian infrastructure and almost zero wheel chair infrastructure. Most people I see in wheelchairs in Galway City have to risk going onto the road as the paths are so poor.

It's about reducing the number of private car journeys. We need to reduce the number of cars on the road. That'll actually leave more space for the lorries, etc. I'll wager that traffic is the biggest impairment for EMS vehicles getting around, not the number of roads.

Almost everyone here has the same priorities; the improvement of Galways transport infrastructure and reduction in traffic jams. But the facts and figures are showing that building this road will not achieve those goals and could in fact have a negative effect. I haven't come across a single bit of evidence that shows the road would improve things beyond people having strong feelings about it. Would you spend millions of euros on something I had a strong feeling on? I would hope not :pac:

Carol25

Absolute rubbish being posted here day after day and never pulled up by moderators as not being valid arguments. How can anyone claim a valid argument to the following:
1. The absurdity yesterday of some posters to suggest taking a full lane of traffic off the only existing two laned road around a GALWAY CITY which currently ends at n59 junction just across Quincentennial bridge. How is this even considered a valid argument. It’s such as waste of time having to answer these posts, which I now suspect is the agenda of the posters. Clearly these people have no idea about what it takes for cities to operate. It’s called infrastructure and it’s not in Galway.
2. People claiming there is no negative impact to business in Galway and wanting to ‘leave things as they are’ or ‘add a few more bus and cycle lanes’. Absolute nonsense. I was in the city centre yesterday morning, completely dead. Some high street shop staff told me there were hardly any customers over the last week, and not a single sale yesterday afternoon. This is a valued high street shop with a strong online presence and is usually packed at holidays. People are voting with their FEET and as I already stated avoiding Galway city centre completely.
3. What is absolutely sickening is the news from Mayo this morning, a new bypass from outside Castlebar to Westport, all planned, set up and put into motion AFTER the Galway bypass plan and is now to go ahead later this year.

I’m worried this farce of a situation is going to cost Galway dearly in the future and prolong the suffering of its residents. People like the posters above will have to move to places with actual bypasses for a job or to pay a bill.

KerryGoat

The ring road would likely divert some/a good portion of traffic form the city but I'd imagine the real cause of congestion is the number of peope driving through the city. Public transport would be the ideal solution in my opinion - provide jobs and reduce traffic, but this government seem inept at rolling our changes in transport

cgcsb

Carol25 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish being posted here day after day and never pulled up by moderators as not being valid arguments. How can anyone claim a valid argument to the following:
1. The absurdity yesterday of some posters to suggest taking a full lane of traffic off the only existing two laned road around a GALWAY CITY which currently ends at n59 junction just across Quincentennial bridge. How is this even considered a valid argument. It’s such as waste of time having to answer these posts, which I now suspect is the agenda of the posters. Clearly these people have no idea about what it takes for cities to operate. It’s called infrastructure and it’s not in Galway.
2. People claiming there is no negative impact to business in Galway and wanting to ‘leave things as they are’ or ‘add a few more bus and cycle lanes’. Absolute nonsense. I was in the city centre yesterday morning, completely dead. Some high street shop staff told me there were hardly any customers over the last week, and not a single sale yesterday afternoon. This is a valued high street shop with a strong online presence and is usually packed at holidays. People are voting with their FEET and as I already stated avoiding Galway city centre completely.
3. What is absolutely sickening is the news from Mayo this morning, a new bypass from outside Castlebar to Westport, all planned, set up and put into motion AFTER the Galway bypass plan and is now to go ahead later this year.

I’m worried this farce of a situation is going to cost Galway dearly in the future and prolong the suffering of its residents. People like the posters above will have to move to places with actual bypasses for a job or to pay a bill.

Basically you're mad because people don't agree with your pro-car agenda and you like bypasses, got it.

Carol25

cgcsb wrote: »

Basically you're mad because people don't agree with your pro-car agenda and you like bypasses, got it.

No I’m mad that people like you are allowed to post up fairy tale notions under the pretence of a suggestion. While people who support the bypass are constantly trolled, and painted as anti public transport car enthusiasts which we are not. I have already stated I’m pro public transport and it measures should already be happening now to alleviate the problem before the bypass is built.

Sam Russell

Carol25 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish being posted here day after day and never pulled up by moderators as not being valid arguments. How can anyone claim a valid argument to the following:

<snip>

Mod: A moderator is not there to consider the validity or otherwise of any post. That would be censorship.

Moderation is there to keep things civil and on topic.

If a poster is contravening the charter, then report the post. Otherwise, comment and give a contra argument, but be nice about it.

cgcsb

Carol25 wrote: »

No I’m mad that people like you are allowed to post up fairy tale notions under the pretence of a suggestion.

I reject your assertion that the Galway Transport study and the science of Transport Modelling are a 'fairy tale notion'. You cannot prove any of your previously iterated points, because the data just doesn't support your point of view, so you're just getting frustrated and calling people names.

xckjoo

Carol25 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish being posted here day after day and never pulled up by moderators as not being valid arguments.

Ironic to be decrying everyone that disagrees with you as having invalid arguments when all the research, data and professionals who understand these things are disagreeing with you too. Exactly what experience do you have that should convince us that you know 'what it takes for cities to operate'?

Carol25

cgcsb wrote: »

I reject your assertion that the Galway Transport study and the science of Transport Modelling are a 'fairy tale notion'. You cannot prove any of your previously iterated points, because the data just doesn't support your point of view, so you're just getting frustrated and calling people names.

So you stand by the idea to take another lane of traffic off a road that already cannot cope?
What year were these studies completed?

Carol25

xckjoo wrote: »

Ironic to be decrying everyone that disagrees with you as having invalid arguments when all the research, data and professionals who understand these things are disagreeing with you too. Exactly what experience do you have that should convince us that you know 'what it takes for cities to operate'?

Are you disagreeing with businesses in Galway who are losing out on trade every single day?
Where did I say I disagreed with Public transport initiatives? I didn’t. I don’t have to work in a transport office to see the issues and solutions. Sounds like some people in charge of Galway Transport should be out of a job long ago and would be in most other jurisdictions who don’t mess around when it comes to infrastructure.

Carol25

cgcsb wrote: »

I reject your assertion that the Galway Transport study and the science of Transport Modelling are a 'fairy tale notion'. You cannot prove any of your previously iterated points, because the data just doesn't support your point of view, so you're just getting frustrated and calling people names.

I reject your assertion that I called people names. I did not. I stand firmly by the ‘fairy tale’ notion comment that was to take another lane of traffic off the existing overloaded road. Would love to get a survey of commuters using it this evening to see their thoughts on that idea?

cgcsb

Carol25 wrote: »

So you stand by the idea to take another lane of traffic off a road that already cannot cope?
What year were these studies completed?

No I am in favor of removing road space from cars and giving it to people using more efficient modes so that more people can move as opposed to more cars. The GTS was last year I believe.

xckjoo

Carol25 wrote: »

Are you disagreeing with businesses in Galway who are losing out on trade every single day?
Where did I say I disagreed with Public transport initiatives? I didn’t. I don’t have to work in a transport office to see the issues and solutions. Sounds like some people in charge of Galway Transport should be out of a job long ago and would be in most other jurisdictions who don’t mess around when it comes to infrastructure.

I disagree that doubling down on the same mistakes that are causing businesses to currently lose trade, will do anything to improve things if that's what you mean. Trying to paint people that disagree that a new road will fix all/any of Galways traffic as anti-small business is poor form. I'd wager everyone who has looked at this thread is in favour of improvements in transport infrastructure and boosting local business. But we disagree that improving transport infrastructure is only solved by building more roads.

Where did I say you disagree with Public Transport initiatives? Nowhere so save your outrage/strawman. You disagree with the findings of the professionals who studied, researched and understand Galway (and general) transport needs and infrastructure requirements based on nothing but feelings you have from what you see. It's mad that you think you know better than the professionals based only on notions. Displays a stunning lack of awareness of the gap in knowledge. Have you any experience in understanding transportation engineering beyond sitting in a car looking out? Have you even read the reports, etc.?

Carol25

xckjoo wrote: »

I disagree that doubling down on the same mistakes that are causing businesses to currently lose trade, will do anything to improve things if that's what you mean. Trying to paint people that disagree that a new road will fix all/any of Galways traffic as anti-small business is poor form. I'd wager everyone who has looked at this thread is in favour of improvements in transport infrastructure and boosting local business. But we disagree that improving transport infrastructure is only solved by building more roads.

Where did I say you disagree with Public Transport initiatives? Nowhere so save your outrage/strawman. You disagree with the findings of the professionals who studied, researched and understand Galway (and general) transport needs and infrastructure requirements based on nothing but feelings you have from what you see. It's mad that you think you know better than the professionals based only on notions. Displays a stunning lack of awareness of the gap in knowledge. Have you any experience in understanding transportation engineering beyond sitting in a car looking out? Have you even read the reports, etc.?

If you want to start talking about professionals, let’s start with the people who have applied for planning permission to built a badly needed piece of infrastructure called a bypass that should be built and in use years ago, never mind now. Stop hiding behind public transport initiatives pretending you support local businesses. The infrastructure for anything you suggest isn’t there and you all know it.
Oh and stop pretending the current roads and badly needed pieces of infrastructure that help the city creak along daily is are ‘mistakes from the past’. Without it there would be no Galway City.

xckjoo

Carol25 wrote: »

If you want to start talking about professionals, let’s start with the people who have applied for planning permission to built a badly needed piece of infrastructure called a bypass that should be built and in use years ago, never mind now. Stop hiding behind public transport initiatives pretending you support local businesses. The infrastructure for anything you suggest isn’t there and you all know it.
Oh and stop pretending the current roads and badly needed pieces of infrastructure that help the city creak along daily is are ‘mistakes from the past’. Without it there would be no Galway City.

Your posts ready like delusional rants so I think we'll end this interaction. Most of the money I spend stays within the local economy but keep telling yourself everyone that disagrees with you on how to improve things is some kind of boogy man out to destroy the city. Happy to engage in a discussion but this is degrading into mud slinging.

Carol25

xckjoo wrote: »

Your posts ready like delusional rants so I think we'll end this interaction. Most of the money I spend stays within the local economy but keep telling yourself everyone that disagrees with you on how to improve things is some kind of boogy man out to destroy the city. Happy to engage in a discussion but this is degrading into mud slinging.

What’s delusional about what I just posted? I’m making fair and valid points and don’t appreciate the insults. Stop insulting my posts please because you disagree with my point of view.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we cut the slanging. It is not worthy. Any further such nonsense will be met by sanctions. If you cannot be nice to each other, do not expect to be treated in a nice way.

McGiver

Carol25 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish being posted here day after day and never pulled up by moderators as not being valid arguments. How can anyone claim a valid argument to the following:
1. The absurdity yesterday of some posters to suggest taking a full lane of traffic off the only existing two laned road around a GALWAY CITY which currently ends at n59 junction just across Quincentennial bridge. How is this even considered a valid argument. It’s such as waste of time having to answer these posts, which I now suspect is the agenda of the posters. Clearly these people have no idea about what it takes for cities to operate. It’s called infrastructure and it’s not in Galway.
2. People claiming there is no negative impact to business in Galway and wanting to ‘leave things as they are’ or ‘add a few more bus and cycle lanes’. Absolute nonsense. I was in the city centre yesterday morning, completely dead. Some high street shop staff told me there were hardly any customers over the last week, and not a single sale yesterday afternoon. This is a valued high street shop with a strong online presence and is usually packed at holidays. People are voting with their FEET and as I already stated avoiding Galway city centre completely.
3. What is absolutely sickening is the news from Mayo this morning, a new bypass from outside Castlebar to Westport, all planned, set up and put into motion AFTER the Galway bypass plan and is now to go ahead later this year.

I’m worried this farce of a situation is going to cost Galway dearly in the future and prolong the suffering of its residents. People like the posters above will have to move to places with actual bypasses for a job or to pay a bill.

You have a very local, narrow-minded, conservative opinion typical for Western Ireland. Just because you haven't lived in different circumstances or haven't at least seen then, doesn't mean the solution doesn't exist. You apparently have no idea how a European city as of 2019 looks like and how it should look like. You appear to be living in some kind of a 1980s situation from my European POV.

Having lived in 4 European countries and visited another dozen, I can just reiterate what I had said in these threads - people like you and generally most locals should seriously go and visit a couple of European cities to see the state of play and get grounded in reality. You don't have to go very far, you could go to Scotland and England for example. No offence intended EOM.

Carol25

McGiver wrote: »

You have a very local, narrow-minded, conservative opinion typical for Western Ireland. Just because you haven't lived in different circumstances or haven't at least seen then, doesn't mean the solution doesn't exist. You apparently have no idea how a European city as of 2019 looks like and how it should look like. You appear to be living in some kind of a 1980s situation from my European POV.

Having lived in 4 European countries and visited another dozen, I can just reiterate what I had said in these threads - people like you and generally most locals should seriously go and visit a couple of European cities to see the state of play and get grounded in reality. You don't have to go very far, you could go to Scotland and England for example. No offence intended EOM.

One of the reasons I find this argument so frustrating is because I’ve travelled the world, I’ve seen how it’s done all over Europe, Japan, America, Canada. I know what the ‘state of play’ is. So you can eliminate the ‘local’ point of view right there. The one common denominator from every city I visited was infrastructure. They all have bypasses, dual carriage ways, doubled laned roads, bridges, tunnels, you name it-they have it. They also have very effective bus, rail links and some have great cycle lanes. All of which is made possible by having the infrastructure in place. Galway currently doesn’t have this, which is why I cannot understand the people who are so opposed as their viewpoint doesn’t stand up to scrutiny or make sense. None of the solutions being discussed are possible without extra bridges, tunnels, lanes on roads, etc.

Sam Russell

Carol25 wrote: »

One of the reasons I find this argument so frustrating is because I’ve travelled the world, I’ve seen how it’s done all over Europe, Japan, America, Canada. I know what the ‘state of play’ is. So you can eliminate the ‘local’ point of view right there. The one common denominator from every city I visited was infrastructure. They all have bypasses, dual carriage ways, doubled laned roads, bridges, tunnels, you name it-they have it. They also have very effective bus, rail links and some have great cycle lanes. All of which is made possible by having the infrastructure in place. Galway currently doesn’t have this, which is why I cannot understand the people who are so opposed as their viewpoint doesn’t stand up to scrutiny or make sense. None of the solutions being discussed are possible without extra bridges, tunnels, lanes on roads, etc.

It is quite clear than Galway does not have a working public transport system. The only train service is a single track service from Oranmore, with infrequent trains. Buses are few and the routes even fewer. Galway has a PT system that is not fit for anything.

First fix the PT. Building roads first will fix nothing, merely create space for more traffic jams.

McGiver

Carol25 wrote:

One of the reasons I find this argument so frustrating is because I’ve travelled the world, I’ve seen how it’s done all over Europe, Japan, America, Canada. I know what the ‘state of play’ is. So you can eliminate the ‘local’ point of view right there. The one common denominator from every city I visited was infrastructure. They all have bypasses, dual carriage ways, doubled laned roads, bridges, tunnels, you name it-they have it. They also have very effective bus, rail links and some have great cycle lanes. All of which is made possible by having the infrastructure in place. Galway currently doesn’t have this, which is why I cannot understand the people who are so opposed as their viewpoint doesn’t stand up to scrutiny or make sense. None of the solutions being discussed are possible without extra bridges, tunnels, lanes on roads, etc.

Exclude Canada and US straight away - car dominated countries outside of Europe. Japan is in Asia, no point talking about that.

I'm talking about Europe where Ireland historically, culturally, geographically and politically belongs. So let's talk Europe please. Cities in Europe, and compare apples and apples, so basically European cities of population about 100k thereabouts.

Such cities typically are more livable with higher quality of life because they allow more people and less cars, usually via:
A) public transport and P&R facilities
pedestrianised centre
C) walking and cycling infrastructure

I haven't seen any tunnels etc in Oxford when I lived there but I've seen all of the above!

Are you saying that Galway City doesn't have enough roads? You must be joking Such a small city and it literally has roads everywhere, it's totally car dominated, build around cars and for cars. How much more roads do you need, why and where? There are many places on Galway which are pedestrian hostile where there is either no pavement or it's dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists likewise.

WillieMason

McGiver wrote: »

Exclude Canada and US straight away - car dominated countries outside of Europe. Japan is in Asia, no point talking about that.

I'm talking about Europe where Ireland historically, culturally, geographically and politically belongs. So let's talk Europe please. Cities in Europe, and compare apples and apples, so basically European cities of population about 100k thereabouts.

Such cities typically are more livable with higher quality of life because they allow more people and less cars, usually via:
A) public transport and P&R facilities
pedestrianised centre
C) walking and cycling infrastructure

I haven't seen any tunnels etc in Oxford when I lived there but I've seen all of the above!

Are you saying that Galway City doesn't have enough roads? You must be joking Such a small city and it literally has roads everywhere, it's totally car dominated, build around cars and for cars. How much more roads do you need, why and where? There are many places on Galway which are pedestrian hostile where there is either no pavement or it's dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists likewise.

You have a very local, narrow-minded, conservative opinion typical for Western Ireland why exclude areas outside of Europe for solutions ? Is it you look down other people unless they are white and European?

You want to compare Galway a city with limited access due to the ocean with Oxford the city which is surrounded by land and has a RING ROAD surrounding the entire city?? You are Trolling where are the mods???????????????

McGiver

WillieMason wrote:

You want to compare Galway a city with limited access due to the ocean with Oxford the city which is surrounded by land and has a RING ROAD surrounding the entire city?? You are Trolling where are the mods???????????????

Care to provide any factual counterarguments on my points instead running around and yelling "call the guards!"?

hans aus dtschl

WillieMason wrote: »

You want to compare Galway a city with limited access due to the ocean with Oxford the city which is surrounded by land and has a RING ROAD surrounding the entire city??

I personally would prefer Galway to get equivalent sustainable transport spend instead of the cost of the proposed road.
Amsterdam
Haarlem
Barcelona
Frankfurt
are "hemmed in" if that's where your focus is. I don't think the topography is a strong argument either way in this discussion.

For those who believe this road to be the only solution, what do you think of the current 70% car use figure for those living in the west of the city? And what would you feel about the exact same local spend going into sustainable transport?

cgcsb

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I personally would prefer Galway to get equivalent sustainable transport spend instead of the cost of the proposed road.
Amsterdam
Haarlem
Barcelona
Frankfurt
are "hemmed in" if that's where your focus is. I don't think the topography is a strong argument either way in this discussion.

For those who believe this road to be the only solution, what do you think of the current 70% car use figure for those living in the west of the city? And what would you feel about the exact same local spend going into sustainable transport?

What a lot f people don't actually get is that the bypass will actually harm the development of sustainable options, the utility of a motorway would be extremely attractive and PT wouldn't be able to compete in mode choice.