Rent costs breaking records

LirW

Also there aren't many professional landlords in rural Ireland, therefore not many rental properties around but a huge demand. Even in towns, people are desperately looking for rentals with little around.

I find it quite worrying that not only Dublin rents are so high but country wide rents are completely out of proportion. Rural income is a lot less and rentals are expensive.

In my area there's only a single rental property at the moment and even that's 1250pm (3bed) but when you look at local salaries, this is crazy money. People on low incomes here either are lucky and get housed by the council or they have to move up and down the county every once in a while.
All people in our tiny village council estate that are housed by the council work par a single mother with a baby. Factory workers carers, SNAs, all working local.

The average salary calculations often don't apply for people outside of urban areas because a lot of people there simply earn less in local jobs or they commute and it's expensive.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Taxes increased years previous and was not passed on, landlords had losses they needed to recoup and rent rose from a low point. Not complicated to explain or understand

Landlords never understand economics. Prices rose because demand exceeded supply.

zell12

Moonjet wrote: »

Interesting Limerick rents up 20.3% in a year. What's the explanation, lack of building in that area? People moving from surrounding counties for jobs?

No RPZ rent control in Limerick
4% yearly limit only covers:

Cobh, Co. Cork
Ballincollig – Carrigaline, Co. Cork
Cork City Council
Dublin City Council
South Dublin County Council
Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown County Council
Fingal County Council
Galway City Council
Galway City East
Galway City West
Maynooth, Co. Kildare
Celbridge-Leixlip, Co. Kildare
Naas, Co. Kildare
Newbridge, Co. Kildare
Ashbourne, Co. Meath
Laytown-Bettystown, Co. Meath
Ratoath, Co. Meath
Bray, Co. Wicklow
Wicklow, Co. Wicklow
Drogheda, Co. Louth
Greystones, Co Wicklow

Franz Von Peppercorn

cordy1969 wrote: »

Yes you are 100% correct, also the sky could fall down and the earth could flood.

Of course it's static, of course if you lose you job or have a baby things will take longer. All I was trying to say is it is affordable given the right plan.

The real reason your figures are wrong is because you choose the average wage rather than the median and assumed that women earn as much as men.

LirW

cordy1969 wrote: »

Yes you are 100% correct, also the sky could fall down and the earth could flood.

Of course it's static, of course if you lose you job or have a baby things will take longer. All I was trying to say is it is affordable given the right plan.

It doesn't help a couple though that wanna settle down sooner rather than later, the living costs hold them back.
At the moment 280k doesn't even buy you something spectacular, chances are you'll settle a good bit outside of the M50, and now that there are the Luas and the Dart, the properties in somewhat acceptable areas close to Luas/dart stops come with a premium.
Same goes for rentals.

I agree it's always good to have a plan in place but you painted it like it's the easiest thing in the world to just save up some deposit like it's absolutely nothing.

zell12

893bet wrote: »

Let’s not believe the headlines. The definition of homeless has changed a lot in the last few years.

No it has not.
It is:

Section 2 of the Housing Act, 1988 states that a person should be considered to be homeless if:
(a) there is no accommodation available which, in the opinion of the authority, he, together with any other person who normally resides with him or who might reasonably be expected to reside with him, can reasonably occupy or remain in occupation of,
Or
(b) he is living a hospital, county home, night shelter or other such institution, and is so living because he has no accommodation of the kind referred to in paragraph (a),
and
(c) he cannot provide accommodation from his own resources.

kalych

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The real reason your figures are wrong is because you choose the average wage rather than the median and assumed that women earn as much as men.

I would also like to see even a short list of examples of a family home for 280k in Dublin. And if cordy suggests that it's meant for elsewhere around the country, then maybe we need to seriously revise the wages earned also, as opportunities are just not there elsewhere.

The maths doesn't lie. It's just not economically sustainable to have such a high level of saving to support such little economical output (that 1 property represents), as it starts to seriously suppress spending dragging down growth in the entire country.

cordy1969

LirW wrote: »

It doesn't help a couple though that wanna settle down sooner rather than later, the living costs hold them back.
At the moment 280k doesn't even buy you something spectacular, chances are you'll settle a good bit outside of the M50, and now that there are the Luas and the Dart, the properties in somewhat acceptable areas close to Luas/dart stops come with a premium.
Same goes for rentals.

I agree it's always good to have a plan in place but you painted it like it's the easiest thing in the world to just save up some deposit like it's absolutely nothing.

Because it is easy with sacrifices, just like everyone has made in generations previously. The problem is now, everyone wants everything now. Welcome to the age of entitlement. See generations previously lived where they could afford, worked where they could. The made sacrifices like waiting to have children until they could afford it. Now everyone wants 2 cars, a big house, free childcare and government support.

steamsey

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Landlords never understand economics. Prices rose because demand exceeded supply.

Luckily, all non-landlords understand economics perfectly to balance things out.

Ray Palmer

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Landlords never understand economics. Prices rose because demand exceeded supply.

Maybe you don't understand economics. Supply and demand are not as simplistic as that and when you have barriers to enter and exit a market they effect pricing and application of expense increases. You can't simply stop supply rental property when the rent goes down you must stay in the market. Later on you recoup losses when the market can bare it. Prices rose to insure supply or people would leave the market which is what landlords are doing.

When prices dropped landlords couldn't leave the market but now the can so supply is going down when prices are going up for rentals.

mikemac2

Every generation looks down on the one that follows and guess what? The generation before said the same about you

Somewhere in Ancient Greece was a chap complaining about the ‘yuff

amcalester

cordy1969 wrote: »

Because it is easy with sacrifices, just like everyone has made in generations previously. The problem is now, everyone wants everything now. Welcome to the age of entitlement. See generations previously lived where they could afford, worked where they could. The made sacrifices like waiting to have children until they could afford it. Now everyone wants 2 cars, a big house, free childcare and government support.

There's a lot of rose tinted glasses here.

Every generation lives where they can afford, the issue is that where people can afford is getting further and further away from where the jobs are.

I don't necessarily think this generation has it any tougher than previous ones, but you make it sound like young folk these days have no right to feel aggrieved.

cordy1969

kalych wrote: »

I would also like to see even a short list of examples of a family home for 280k in Dublin. And if cordy suggests that it's meant for elsewhere around the country, then maybe we need to seriously revise the wages earned also, as opportunities are just not there elsewhere.

The maths doesn't lie. It's just not economically sustainable to have such a high level of saving to support such little economical output (that 1 property represents), as it starts to seriously suppress spending dragging down growth in the entire country.

Brand new home just one of the many examples to be found on Daft. Cant wait for your next excuse on why thats no good?


https://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/balbriggan/house-type-c-castleland-park-way-balbriggan-dublin-1802483/

And just incase you have a big family.

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/tallaght/7-montpelier-view-tallaght-dublin-1937009/

El_Duderino 09

Augeo wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Don’t worry about what I claim. The fact is that more people got mortgages back then...........

If it's a fact then quantify it in numbers.

If it is a fact would you accept the point? I doubt it but here you go.

The UK has done better research than Ireland but the issues are the same in both countries. Home ownership down compared to any generation in the last 100 years. Wages in long term stagnation and rent rising much faster than inflation or wages.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/28/proportion-home-owners-halves-millennials

Have a read for yourself. If you don’t already know this then you’ll be shocked to learn about how it works for young people in 2018

Franz Von Peppercorn

steamsey wrote: »

Luckily, all non-landlords understand economics perfectly to balance things out.

That doesn’t necessarily follow.

JustAYoungLad

cordy1969 wrote: »

Ok I'll bite how do they have it tougher?

Cost of living has gone up three times since the 1960s. Wages have barely budged.

This isnt even deniable, public statistics will tell you

steamsey

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That doesn’t necessarily follow.

I was being sarcastic

cordy1969

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If it is a fact would you accept the point? I doubt it but here you go.

The UK has done better research than Ireland but the issues are the same in both countries. Home ownership down compared to any generation in the last 100 years. Wages in long term stagnation and rent rising much faster than inflation or wages.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/28/proportion-home-owners-halves-millennials

Have a read for yourself. If you don’t already know this then you’ll be shocked to learn about how it works for young people in 2018

Totally agree smashed avocado sandwiches and latte's are so much more needed now and expensive than they were back in the 80's.

Just incase all the millennials were busy at the coffee shop I have posted this for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLpE1Pa8vvI

kalych

cordy1969 wrote: »

Brand new home just one of the many examples to be found on Daft. Cant wait for your next excuse on why thats no good?

:rolleyes: if you must insist, I will provide one more "excuse". You like to use averages, maybe we should also look at the price of an "average" home in county Dublin, since you seem to think that a young family earns an average wage:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cost-of-average-home-in-dublin-now-at-440000-468764.html

LirW

cordy1969 wrote: »

Because it is easy with sacrifices, just like everyone has made in generations previously. The problem is now, everyone wants everything now. Welcome to the age of entitlement. See generations previously lived where they could afford, worked where they could. The made sacrifices like waiting to have children until they could afford it. Now everyone wants 2 cars, a big house, free childcare and government support.

Ah yeah, it's never been like that before, sure. The current buyer generation is just people that seek a lavish lifestyle and don't wanna do anything in return and it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that living costs as they are at the moment are insanely high.
Anything else that's new and has never been said before?

In regards to having kids, the average FTB is a lot older now, there's this biological thing too if you want them. And then you'll get the hammering with crèche costs.

Last time I looked there was a big economic downturn after 2008 where rent was cheap and many people had huge pay cuts. Should they stop living immediately in their best years because the economy went to sh1te?

Seriously, this black and white view isn't good for you. A lot of young people are very well capable of managing their money and still aren't anywhere near the numbers you claim are easy peasy to save.

Fol20

steddyeddy wrote: »

I can understand laws designed to remove troublesome tenants quicker but in light of rent cost breaking records you think tenants will vote to remove rent caps and increase rent?

https://youtu.be/JZygWICdi4U
Take a look at the link above that talks about disadvantages of rent controls.

All rent controlls lead to us ll who have no incentive to update a property as there is no financial gain from it. Future ll investment declines due to lack of gains.
Rent controls is a mask for the real issue - SUPPLY!

JustAYoungLad

cordy1969 wrote: »

Because it is easy with sacrifices, just like everyone has made in generations previously. The problem is now, everyone wants everything now. Welcome to the age of entitlement. See generations previously lived where they could afford, worked where they could. The made sacrifices like waiting to have children until they could afford it. Now everyone wants 2 cars, a big house, free childcare and government support.

We’re at the age of responsibility. Fossil fuels, sustainable energy, civil rights, an increasingly interdependent world.

Old people have a weird rhetoric about ‘the good old days’ and this has been happening since there were old and young generations. The same generation that invaded the middle east for oil will call Gen Zs entitled, not caring that cost of living has gone up 3 times since then.

I think youre projecting. People today arent entitled, atleast not anymore than the last

cordy1969

kalych wrote: »

:rolleyes: if you must insist, I will provide one more "excuse". You like to use averages, maybe we should also look at the price of an "average" home in county Dublin, since you seem to think that a young family earns an average wage:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cost-of-average-home-in-dublin-now-at-440000-468764.html

But I answered your question on where the houses were for 280000, now you want to live in an average price based house? The Dublin price average include multi million dollar properties.

Ray Palmer

JustAYoungLad wrote: »

Cost of living has gone up three times since the 1960s. Wages have barely budged.

This isnt even deniable, public statistics will tell you

I want to see that information. To say wages haven't budged is an extraordinary claim given I noticed huge differences is my life. The standard of living is also noticeably better

cordy1969

JustAYoungLad wrote: »

We’re at the age of responsibility. Fossil fuels, sustainable energy, civil rights, an increasingly interdependent world.

Old people have a weird rhetoric about ‘the good old days’ and this has been happening since there were old and young generations. The same generation that invaded the middle east for oil will call Gen Zs entitled, not caring that cost of living has gone up 3 times since then.

I think youre projecting. People today arent entitled, atleast not anymore than the last

Your right now someone give the young man a participation award please so he can feel complete.

Moonjet

cordy1969 wrote: »

Brand new home just one of the many examples to be found on Daft. Cant wait for your next excuse on why thats no good?




And just incase you have a big family.

With all due respect to the areas, Balbriggan and Tallaght are not the most "desirable" parts of Dublin to live in.

Deebles McBeebles

There's always one isn't there.

LirW

cordy1969 wrote: »

Brand new home just one of the many examples to be found on Daft. Cant wait for your next excuse on why thats no good?


https://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/balbriggan/house-type-c-castleland-park-way-balbriggan-dublin-1802483/

And just incase you have a big family.

https://www.daft.ie/dublin/houses-for-sale/tallaght/7-montpelier-view-tallaght-dublin-1937009/

Ah you mean Balbriggan which is a good commute in itself or that part of Tallaght that's right in the middle of Jobstown where you have the finest selection of scrotes?

You can get a 3bed ex corpo in Southwest Finglas for around 200-225k, of course only if you're cool with replacing your car regularly and don't mind not leaving your house after dark since you probably get stabbed or ran over by a loose horse.

Be grand, gentrify Darndale and Jobstown you whinging millennials.

cordy1969

Moonjet wrote: »

With all due respect to the areas, Balbriggan and Tallaght are not the most "desirable" parts of Dublin to live in.

So as I said people don't want to live where they can afford? They want to live in the high end of town from the start.

Exactly my point, thanks for clarifying it

kalych

cordy1969 wrote: »

But I answered your question on where the houses were for 280000, now you want to live in an average price based house? The Dublin price average include multi million dollar properties.

So does the average living wage indeed includes multimillionaires income my friend. that's how averages work.

and yes, I would like an average new family to be able to afford an average home in the locale, preposterous, I know

JustAYoungLad

cordy1969 wrote: »

Your right now someone give the young man a participation award please so he can feel complete.

I think its time to accept youre getting old. You can be dignified about it. The world doesn’t have to be against you.

El_Duderino 09

cordy1969 wrote: »

Totally agree smashed avocado sandwiches and latte's are so much more needed now and expensive than they were back in the 80's.

Just incase all the millennials were busy at the coffee shop I have posted this for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLpE1Pa8vvI

Chortle chortle chortle. That’s not really an argument, is it?

mikemac2

kalych wrote: »

and yes, I would like an average new family to be able to afford an average home in the locale, preposterous, I know

Oh you’ll be called socialist for that :eek:

JustAYoungLad

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I want to see that information. To say wages haven't budged is an extraordinary claim given I noticed huge differences is my life. The standard of living is also noticeably better

Sure. PM me and ill send you later when i get home

PlaneSpeeking

To be fair you could gentrify Jobstown by installing indoor plumbing and having two people get jobs.

LirW

cordy1969 wrote: »

So as I said people don't want to live where they can afford? They want to live in the high end of town from the start.

Exactly my point, thanks for clarifying it

Back in the 80s a working couple could afford moving to Drumcondra when you were really good with money, or a nice quiet part of Glasnevin.
Nowadays if you wanna be in the Dublin area and close to the M50 if can buy yourself into an area (when you're a median wage couple) that has most likely some serious anti social behaviour issues because there are some well established waster communities around.
That's why people move further out.

But tell me, would you raise a family in the heart of Jobstown where there's caged in CCTV around?

ahnowbrowncow

cordy1969 wrote: »

The average married couple with no children with both partners working.

Average wage lets say $40k each

69100 taxed at 20% = 55280 annual
10900 Taxed at 40% = 6540 annual

Total income for married couple = 61820 annual

Nice Rental = 1800 p/m x 12 = 21600
Living comfortably weekly expenses = 1000 x12 = 12000
Emergency fund = 400 x 12 = 4800

Total expenditure = 38400

Total Balance left over for a deposit = 23420

Current Mortgage 3.5 x gross wage = 280,000

Deposit required 20% = 56000

So in approx 30 months living very comfortably, you can save a deposit whilst still living comfortably and be a home owner within 30 months.

Can anyone explain to me why that is so hard? Now bearing in mind I have been more than generous with living expenses.

Not interested in single people's theories etc. As most people don't buy a house until they are married or in a relationship. There are exceptions of course and a single person earning a nice wage could also afford it reasonably easy.

Living comfortably for a couple is €1,000 a month? You've never created a budget, have you?

The below are expenses the majority have to pay, I wouldn't class it as living comfortably. And estimated costs are at the lower end of the scale.

Groceries and household supplies. €300.
Phone bills, can't get much lower than €30 a month so that's €60.
Transport costs, majority of people would spend a minimum of €30 a week. €240
Broadband. €50.
Clothes. €150.
Electricity and heat. €100
Health insurance for two people. €200.
One car, tax and insurance. €80
Bin collection. €30

That comes to €1,210 a month.

Thats just the basic living expenses. It doesn't include things like subscriptions like netflix, Spotify, sky.

Doesnt include TV licence, hair/beauty, books, concerts, hobbies, sports, gym or cinema.

It doesn't include restaurants or nights out. Doesnt include weddings, presents, flights or hotels.

It doesn't include car loans, repairs and servicing.

It assumes the couple doesn't have a child or pay maintenance.

Create a proper budget, come back and discuss it with us then.

Qrt

Moonjet wrote: »

With all due respect to the areas, Balbriggan and Tallaght are not the most "desirable" parts of Dublin to live in.

Look at the other end of Tallaght, the part with a commute that doesn't drive you to drink, and the average is way nearer to €350k. If people move to further-flung places, commutes go up, traffic goes up, demand on public transport goes up because it's too far to walk or cycle etc. Then these areas become more desirable to others that are built in 50 years' time 5km further away, leading to increased prices, and moving further out again etc etc etc.

Vicious circle. End it by implementing a (near) total ban on the construction of semi-d's and detached houses, encourage five-six storey medium density developments, and make Dublin and other cities actually tolerable places to live.

amcalester

Qrt wrote: »

Look at the other end of Tallaght, the part with a commute that doesn't drive you to drink, and the average is way nearer to €350k. If people move to further-flung places, commutes go up, traffic goes up, demand on public transport goes up because it's too far to walk or cycle etc. Then these areas become more desirable to others that are built in 50 years' time 5km further away, leading to increased prices, and moving further out again etc etc etc.

Vicious circle. End it by implementing a (near) total ban on the construction of semi-d's and detached houses, encourage five-six storey medium density developments, and make Dublin and other cities actually tolerable places to live.

What people don't seem to realise is that the reason the previous generation could afford to live closer to the city center and the current one can't; is because the previous generation are still living in those houses. And because we haven't built up, we have to build out.

Ray Palmer

JustAYoungLad wrote: »

Sure. PM me and ill send you later when i get home

If you can't find it on the internet from a reputable source I am not interested sounds like BS because my grandmother grew up in a shared room with 5 other families. Didn't matter if the cost of living was cheaper they had no money and lived in squalid conditions. People aren't really talking about the good old days. They are talking about a brief window where people could get a house from the state or afford to buy. Those things had costs and conditions have improved.

Women can now work, single parents are cared for as people with disabilities etc... Standard of living improved as did cost so not really a surprise

I’m a landlord and it’s not for me so I’m getting out as soon as possible. Thankfully my first and only tenant moved in before they changed Part IV to six years so I’ve only a few more months to go before I get rid of the **** (sorry, but that’s all I think of him now). I don’t think my mental health could take another 2 years.

So, it’s not for me.

cordy1969

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Living comfortably for a couple is €1,000 a month? You've never created a budget, have you?

The below are expenses the majority have to pay, I wouldn't class it as living comfortably. And estimated costs are at the lower end of the scale.

Groceries and household supplies. €300.
Phone bills, can't get much lower than €30 a month so that's €60.
Transport costs, majority of people would spend a minimum of €30 a week. €240
Broadband. €50.
Clothes. €150.
Electricity and heat. €100
Health insurance for two people. €200.
One car, tax and insurance. €80
Bin collection. €30

That comes to €1,210 a month.

Thats just the basic living expenses. It doesn't include things like subscriptions like netflix, Spotify, sky.

Doesnt include TV licence, hair/beauty, books, concerts, hobbies, sports, gym or cinema.

It doesn't include restaurants or nights out. Doesnt include weddings, presents, flights or hotels.

It doesn't include car loans, repairs and servicing.

It assumes the couple doesn't have a child or pay maintenance.

Create a proper budget, come back and discuss it with us then.

As I said at the top it was for a childless couple. And you spend 150 a month on clothes lol?... The things below you say aren't calculated is because they are a luxury not a necessity. Do you want a house or a new wardrobe.

JustAYoungLad

Ray Palmer wrote: »

If you can't find it on the internet from a reputable source I am not interested sounds like BS because my grandmother grew up in a shared room with 5 other families. Didn't matter if the cost of living was cheaper they had no money and lived in squalid conditions. People aren't really talking about the good old days. They are talking about a brief window where people could get a house from the state or afford to buy. Those things had costs and conditions have improved.

Women can now work, single parents are cared for as people with disabilities etc... Standard of living improved as did cost so not really a surprise

I have 10+ links saved at home computer. You can find these with google aswell. Heres one from CSO. Page 74

https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/otherreleases/thatwasthenthisisnow.pdf


Dont take it as a personal attack. Im not saying your family didnt work hard. Im saying cost of living since the 60s has multiplied

LirW

cordy1969 wrote: »

As I said at the top it was for a childless couple. And you spend 150 a month on clothes lol?... The things below you say aren't calculated is because they are a luxury not a necessity. Do you want a house or a new wardrobe.

And then would you get a mortgage to move to Jobsdown, Darndale or riot capital Balbriggan because that's what you can afford?

Deebles McBeebles

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I’m a landlord and it’s not for me so I’m getting out as soon as possible. Thankfully my first and only tenant moved in before they changed Part IV to six years so I’ve only a few more months to go before I get rid of the **** (sorry, but that’s all I think of him now). I don’t think my mental health could take another 2 years.

So, it’s not for me.

Yeah sorry about that, I'll stick the radiators back on the walls as soon as all the copper is out. They won't be much use without the boiler but, you know, swings and roundabouts.

Franz Von Peppercorn

steamsey wrote: »

I was being sarcastic

You need to be better at that.

Ray Palmer

Qrt wrote: »

Look at the other end of Tallaght, the part with a commute that doesn't drive you to drink, and the average is way nearer to €350k. If people move to further-flung places, commutes go up, traffic goes up, demand on public transport goes up because it's too far to walk or cycle etc. Then these areas become more desirable to others that are built in 50 years' time 5km further away, leading to increased prices, and moving further out again etc etc etc.

Vicious circle. End it by implementing a (near) total ban on the construction of semi-d's and detached houses, encourage five-six storey medium density developments, and make Dublin and other cities actually tolerable places to live.

The increase of immortality has become a huge issue.:rolleyes:

People die and houses are sold there is just currently a slow in the movement. In other countries people move when they retire freeing up family houses. That just needs to start happening and as house price rise and areas become more expensive family homes become permanent rentals. This is what happens in other countries but we just haven't caught up. Building more is not the only solution better use of existing housing stock would work too while places are built. It is the natural course of a city for sure. It already happened in Dublin. How many of the large georgian houses are still occupied by one family?

cordy1969

LirW wrote: »

And then would you get a mortgage to move to Jobsdown, Darndale or riot capital Balbriggan because that's what you can afford?

Or you could move anywhere in Kildare, Meath or Louth which are all commutable areas also.

Franz Von Peppercorn

cordy1969 wrote: »

As I said at the top it was for a childless couple. And you spend 150 a month on clothes lol?... The things below you say aren't calculated is because they are a luxury not a necessity. Do you want a house or a new wardrobe.

Only the clothing was off in his monthly outgoings (although people have to buy clothing over the year). The rest was for two people.

mikemac2

I vaguely remember Brian Cowen having a National Spatial Strategy but that’s the last I heard of it

Rural areas are depopulating and the biggest employer may be the petrol station

Must every big job announcement go to Dublin? The east coast will topple over one day