Whistleblower: Maurice McCabe

Allinall

realdanbreen wrote: »

There are several ways of highlighting wrongdoings at work. I don't know where you work or if you work but if one of my colleagues went to the top about wrongdoing without first advising his colleague to cut it out and shape up, and it resulted in that colleague being demoted then he would be pretty naive not to expect the cold shoulder when he returned to work.

Would you accuse him of child abuse?

gmisk

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You seem to have an issue with McCabe's methods in highlighting wrong doing which is fine. Any thoughts on the actual wrong doing?

Er lads lads lads?
Bants?

Sycamore Tree

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think the guards are like the priests. While the good ones turn a blind eye/ cover up/minimise/deny re the actions of the bad ones, they implicate themselves in the disgusting behaviour of the far fewer number of bad ones. It is in their own best interests to have a good image and the bad ones are smearing the public image of them all. But just like the church I fear the most of them would prefer everything to stay hidden.

Completely agree with this.

There are huge comparisons between the fall of the Roman Church in Ireland and the fall of Gardai's reputation. Too much power I guess.

realdanbreen

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You seem to have an issue with McCabe's methods in highlighting wrong doing which is fine. Any thoughts on the actual wrong doing?

Exactly. It's his methods I have a problem with. It is correct that the wrongdoings were exposed and those who were guilty were disciplined. However informing on them(and that is what it is, calling it whistleblowing in an attempt to soften it doesn't cut any ice) as a first resort is not the way to go as can be clearly seen from the reaction of his colleagues.;

Plumbthedepths

realdanbreen wrote:

Exactly. It's his methods I have a problem with. It is correct that the wrongdoings were exposed and those who were guilty were disciplined. However informing on them(and that is what it is, calling it whistleblowing in an attempt to soften it doesn't cut any ice) as a first resort is not the way to go as can be clearly seen from the reaction of his colleagues.;

It wasn't covered in the programme as to whether he addressed his subordinates before he went to senior management. So personally it is hard to have an opinion on his methods without the full knowledge. He does however seem to put proper policing ahead of loyalty to incompetence. So again you have any thoughts on the issues he raised? Improper investigation of a serious assualt, drunk off duty guards using an unmarked patrol car interfering with the scene of a suicide. Any thoughts at all?

smurgen

realdanbreen wrote: »

givyjoe wrote: »

Possibly why you're not in a senior position 'at work' :rolleyes:.

So if you acted as he did you would expect to be met with high fives when you returned to work?

So if you reported consistent gross misconducted at work you'd expect your superiors to conspire with your colleagues to smear you character and attack you on social media in the worst way possible?

Alf Veedersane

realdanbreen wrote: »

If I was in a senior position at work, as MMc was, and became aware of shoddiness, bad practice among my colleagues I would warn them about it and tell them to sort it out or I would take it further

"Right lads....don't be in the unmarked car when you're locked and off-duty.

And please don't turn up at the next suicide hammered."

Yeah. They'd learn their lesson and that would be that. They'd be good guards and citizens thereafter.

smurgen

realdanbreen wrote: »

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It was shocking that McCabe expected them to do their job, turn up for their weekend shift when rostered. Not to go to the scene of a suicide when off duty and drunk using an unmarked patrol car and interfere with a preserved scene. Btw Miss D's father was one of those 3 off duty drunk guards, he was demoted do you think that was wrong?

There are several ways of highlighting wrongdoings at work. I don't know where you work or if you work but if one of my colleagues went to the top about wrongdoing without first advising his colleague to cut it out and shape up, and it resulted in that colleague being demoted then he would be pretty naive not to expect the cold shoulder when he returned to work.

Whistleblowing and whistleblowers are specifically covered by law.it is a legitimate way to aire complaints and mccabe was 100% right to do so.

ChikiChiki

realdanbreen wrote: »

Hang on this guys wife even said that he was a stickler for the rules and never relaxed even when out socially. As I said we are talking here about policing Baileborough ffs!. BTW I didn't hear him say anything good about any colleagues he worked with for so many years.

Stop making attempts please to detrect and derail from the main issue here. Stickler or not its completly irrelevant ffs!

Ceist_Beag

valoren wrote: »

It always amazes me.

McCabe called out to investigate a suicide.
3 off duty cops who were pissed drunk were on the scene, they had no business there but then drove off in the unmarked car.

He reports this and there are quite rightly consequences for the people involved. How thick do you have to be to see that doing something like this was ok to do. They took it seriously but McCabe was a marked man. A tattle tale, a party pooper. If they weren't doing this there was a 100% chance they wouldn't have been reprimanded.

One of them loses their promoted position and decides to get revenge on McCabe by smearing his name and enabling a complaint to be made against him for sexual assault on one of his family members.

What amazes me is McCabe would not have done any reporting if that vindictive prick hadn't done what they had done. They can't take accountability for making a mistake and instead sought to destroy a man's reputation for doing the right and proper thing. Did they not know the reasoning behind reporting such incidents? To prevent it from happening again via disciplinary procedures.

That's the crux of this. One muppet got aggrieved because he'd been not only caught but got called out, couldn't let it go and wanted pay back. It's disturbing that someone like this would look to a sexual element to enable that, to exploit their own kid for revenge. People like that typically take something nobody else witnessed and manipulate it to a specific end. In this case it was to destroy McCabe for sexual assault. Small minds with small talk in a small town would have the desired effect of making him a pariah. Can you imagine what was going through his mind hearing that? His wife was worried he might kill himself.

There's plenty of innuendo flying here from posters with little concrete to back it up about McCabe e.g. "There's plenty of people who have had dealings with him". Plenty? How many? People? Who? Dealings? Be specific or GTFO. It's easier to smear than to complete due diligence, it's clear rumor and innuendo remain a powerfully destructive tactic.

Clearly they don't get the principles of what McCabe decided to do and are still pathetically slinging mud. They don't get it and seemingly they never will. When it came to the penalty points whistle blowing the hierarchy looked to everything and anything to besmirch his name and destroy his credibility even scrambling to use something he was completely cleared of to attempt to enable that. They got caught. And heads rolled. It bears repeating, if there was no problem then there would be no blowing the whistle.

He was a serious man who took a serious job seriously. Stickler for the rules? What a load of bull****. It's policing not a game of tiddly winks. Isn't the point of the Guards to enforce the rules? All of the time. Not some of the time. You expect that from anyone currently in the Gardai or anyone looking to become a guard.

(As a side note).
I used to do security in a city car park which used to have the Garda social club in the vicinity. In the summer of 2000, one night a car is leaving and an off duty and very drunk Guard get's out. There is another two in the car. He shoves his ticket at me and says 'Validate that". I put it into the machine to give the discount reducing it from €5 to a balance of €1.50. He thought it would be fully subsidized. He says write it off, get's into a petty argument and I am to clear it so they can leave, that he is "a guard". I say they need to pay the balance. He refuses. I am being a stickler for the rules myself here. He's clearly annoyed and they scramble for the coins to pay and I'm muttered at before they drive off. He's clearly in no condition to drive. But hey, he's a guard. He might be breaking the law but he's going to pay his fee, not me. That always stuck with me.

+1 to all of this. To the bit in bold, what is frightening is that he did this to a Sergeant in his own station. Imagine what that garda could do to Joe Public if he took a dislike to him!

batgoat

realdanbreen wrote: »

Exactly. It's his methods I have a problem with. It is correct that the wrongdoings were exposed and those who were guilty were disciplined. However informing on them(and that is what it is, calling it whistleblowing in an attempt to soften it doesn't cut any ice) as a first resort is not the way to go as can be clearly seen from the reaction of his colleagues.;

They were interfering in crime scenes while drunk.... Reporting is exactly what you do in such a situation.

smurgen

batgoat wrote: »

realdanbreen wrote: »

Exactly. It's his methods I have a problem with. It is correct that the wrongdoings were exposed and those who were guilty were disciplined. However informing on them(and that is what it is, calling it whistleblowing in an attempt to soften it doesn't cut any ice) as a first resort is not the way to go as can be clearly seen from the reaction of his colleagues.;

They were interfering in crime scenes while drunk.... Reporting is exactly what you do in such a situation.

I'm not sure about whistle blowing in other industries but i know informing someone you've noticed wrong doing in the financial world is counted as tipping off and a crime in itself.

Captain Obvious

I haven't seen it yet but notice a few people stating as fact that a Garda got his daughter to make up an allegation against McCabe. Was this proven in the documentary? I thought she went back to the HSE 8 years later for counselling about the incident. Is that visit supposed to have been part of the smear campaign?

Plumbthedepths

Captain Obvious wrote:

I haven't seen it yet but notice a few people stating as fact that a Garda got his daughter to make up an allegation against McCabe. Was this proven in the documentary? I thought she went back to the HSE 8 years later for counselling about the incident. Is that visit supposed to have been part of the smear campaign?

Was the allegation found to be false and McCabe had no case to answer to?. As an aside false memory can have as much an effect on a person as a real memory. There has been cases in the states where false memory was used ( not deliberately I may add) to convict people of sexual crimes against children. There was quite a famous one from the 80's in America an entire family was destroyed. The family business was a crèche. I can't link it here but easily found on Google.

Floppybits

smurgen wrote: »

I'm not sure about whistle blowing in other industries but i know informing someone you've noticed wrong doing in the financial world is counted as tipping off and a crime in itself.

Did you work for Anglo?

Captain Obvious

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Was the allegation found to be false and McCabe had no case to answer to?. As an aside false memory can have as much an effect on a person as a real memory. There has been cases in the states where false memory was used ( not deliberately I may add) to convict people of sexual crimes against children. There was quite a famous one from the 80's in America an entire family was destroyed. The family business was a crèche. I can't link it here but easily found on Google.

My understanding is that the allegation was found not to constitute a criminal offence.

Plumbthedepths

Captain Obvious wrote:

My understanding is that the allegation was found not to constitute a criminal offence.

My understanding is he had no case to answer. However you have brought this as have others in numerous occasions, you'll forgive me if the I say the purpose is to sow doubt. I believe he did nothing wrong to Miss D, because if he did the outcome for McC would be a whole lot different. What are your thoughts do you believe he assualted Miss D?

Timeline

2006
January: Sergeant Maurice McCabe complains to his superior officer about the behaviour of some of his colleagues at Bailieborough Garda Station.

Mr D – father of Ms D (more on her later) – is one of the gardaí accused of attending the scene of a suicide in the local area in a “highly emotional and intoxicated” state. The gardaí had attended an emotionally-charged funeral earlier that day and had later gone to a pub after they finished work.

After a report from McCabe, who was in charge at that scene, Mr D and another officer are “reverted to regular duties”.

December: Ms D makes a formal complaint to the gardaí in Cavan against McCabe, alleging that he had sexually assaulted her many years earlier when she was a child during the 1990s. The now-teenager had previously disclosed these allegations by confiding in her parents and a number of relatives in 2005 and 2006 before making a formal complaint to gardaí.

Ms D claimed that McCabe had tickled her and touched her inappropriately during a game of hide and seek.

The case was assigned to Inspector Noel Cunningham to investigate. He later told the Tribunal that it wasn’t a job he relished. As part of the probe, he interviews McCabe.

2007
19 February: Cunningham completes his report on the investigation and sends it to the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP). In it, he says: “Taking all the matters into consideration, including the question of whether the event, if it happened, constituted a breach of the criminal law, it is felt there is no ground for criminal prosecution.”

He also sends it to his superior, Chief Superintendent Colm Rooney. McCabe is not aware of the content of the report at this time.

27 February: Rooney examines the file and doesn’t propose a disciplinary investigation into Maurice McCabe but does send a copy of it to An Garda Síochána’s human resources management.

1 March: State solicitor Rory Hayden forwards the file to the DPP with this comment: “I do not think any case arises for a prosecution due to a number of inconsistencies in the file, and the strain and credibility of Ms D, with the allegation itself unclear and even on Ms D’s account the incident amounted to horseplay and no more.”

5 April: The DPP gives its directions. It says: “Even if there wasn’t a doubt over her credibility, the incident that she describes does not amount to a sexual assault or indeed an assault.”

11 April: McCabe gets a phone call from Hayden, who conveyed the DPP directions to him. “I felt great. I was extremely happy,” he later told the Tribunal.

23 April: McCabe rings Cunningham. He told the Tribunal he was “annoyed” that Cunningham hadn’t informed him of the DPP directions and “feigned” to Cunningham that he hadn’t already been told them.

Cunningham asks to meet McCabe to convey the directions personally but McCabe opted not to. The inspector also conveys to the D family that the matter wouldn’t be pursued further but doesn’t give them the DPP directions, as it would be normal protocol in such cases not to directly hand over.

26 April: McCabe meets Chief Superintendent Rooney. He later told the Tribunal: “I sought a meeting with him, and I met him in Monaghan, and I conveyed my annoyance, just to the fact that I had to ring Inspector Cunningham in relation to the directions.”

8 May: McCabe meets Cunningham, accompanied by another sergeant. Cunningham tells him the DPP directions and McCabe told the Tribunal he was happy to let matters lie at that stage.

15 October: Fast forward past the summer, and there’s an incident that takes place at Bailieborough courthouse. Mrs D walks into the court when McCabe is present.

He said: “So we seen her in court and she looked over at me and walked over to me, and Inspector Cunningham seen her… so he said leave the court and she left the court after.” McCabe added he felt “intimidated” by it.

17 October: McCabe is walking in the town and sees the D car pull up. He later said: “Ms D hopped out of the car and walked over to me. I didn’t want a confrontation, so I walked to the station, I went inside. I learned then, earlier she had been in the station in Bailieborough.” McCabe said he felt “awful” about it, as he was still being confronted over an issue he had been exonerated of. The suggestion is that in both situations, the women had gone to confront McCabe.

15 November: McCabe writes to his superior, Superintendent Mick Clancy, about what he believes are deficiencies in a separate investigation file relating to an assault at a hotel earlier that year.

28 November: Clancy agrees the matter should be reviewed so meets with McCabe and the investigating officer. That officer receives a reprimand but McCabe told the Tribunal he thinks he [McCabe] used words to the effect that “[the officer] got off lightly”.


https://www.google.ie/amp/www.thejournal.ie/disclosures-tribunal-timeline-4081567-Jun2018/%3famp=1

Captain Obvious

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My understanding is he had no case to answer. However you have brought this as have others in numerous occasions, you'll forgive me if the I say the purpose is to sow doubt. I believe he did nothing wrong to Miss D, because if he did the outcome for McC would be a whole lot different. What are your thoughts do you believe he assualted Miss D?

I don't think the allegation amounted to an assault. I'd also presume that if he was into kiddy fiddling there'd have been some other evidence or victims. But I don't think it's fair to claim she was lying. It's very possible he did something innocent that she felt uncomfortable with. It's just as possible her perception of what happened was distorted by her father.



So while I don't think McCabe did anything wrong, I don't think it's right to state as fact her father made her lie about an allegation. I don't think that is fair on her. And I think it's a bit hypocritical to level the accusation against her father simply because he did not like McCabe.

davidmarsh

You'd want to be one sick puppy to use your daughter in a false claim like that, if that is what happened of course.

Sycamore Tree

Senior Garda management ruined McCabes life and career and I daresay he is lucky to be alive today for one reason or another. They would have been happy for him to commit suicide.

Captain Obvious

davidmarsh wrote: »

You'd want to be one sick puppy to use your daughter in a false claim like that, if that is what happened of course.

That's my point really. I think everyone agrees that what Callinan did in telling people McCabe was a kiddy fiddler was disgusting. Yet some of the same people seem fine in alleging an almost equally despicable thing against Mr D and his daughter.

Plumbthedepths

Captain Obvious wrote:

I don't think the allegation amounted to an assault. I'd also presume that if he was into kiddy fiddling there'd have been some other evidence or victims. But I don't think it's fair to claim she was lying. It's very possible he did something innocent that she felt uncomfortable with. It's just as possible her perception of what happened was distorted by her father.

Again you'll have to forgive me for making a leap here but all I get from your post is 'i know he did nothing wrong but I feel it's necessary to throw some mud. It's also very possible he did absolutely nothing but her father coerced her several years later to say he did. I have seen a similar situation play out between two brothers over land where the niece of my friend made an accusation with the insistence of her father against my friend. Thankfully the justice system saw it for what it was. An innocent man could have been destroyed although there is some in the locality that believe no smoke without fire and why would a young girl make up such a story.

PressRun

That Callinan fella is a dangerous individual. He should be jailed.

Captain Obvious

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Again you'll have to forgive me for making a leap here but all I get from your post is 'i know he did nothing wrong but I feel it's necessary to throw some mud.

That's not what I'm saying. I know he did nothing wrong but that doesn't mean Ms D or her father did either. It's not a binary situation.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's also very possible he did absolutely nothing but her father coerced her several years later to say he did.

But there is no evidence of that. Why is that an OK claim to make? It's a horrible accusation to make against a father. Is it not hypocritical to complain about false accusations about McCabe while making unsubstantiated accusations against someone else.

valoren

According to the daughter she confided with her family as far back as 2005. Nothing happened.

In January 06, the suicide scene and the subsequent reporting and demotion happens and by the end of the year a formal complaint is made. Why wasn't that complaint made in 2005? Isn't it incredibly coincidental that it was made after the demotion?

It's no stretch of the imagination to presume that this was a disgruntled Guard who felt he could exploit his daughters memories of McCabe, manipulate it into something sinister, coerce her into abetting such poison and utilize it to destroy McCabe's career in retaliation or at a bare minimum smear his character.

It's easy to extrapolate past events, with no witnesses and twist them to suit an agenda. Been on the receiving end of such caluminous poison myself but nowhere near the level of sexual assault.

Plumbthedepths

Captain Obvious wrote:

That's not what I'm saying. I know he did nothing wrong but that doesn't mean Ms D or her father did either. It's not a binary situation.

So why link McCabe and Mr D and his daughter.

Captain Obvious wrote:

But there is no evidence of that. Why is that an OK claim to make? It's a horrible accusation to make against a father. Is it not hypocritical to complain about false accusations about McCabe while making unsubstantiated accusations against someone else.

McCabe is a father you seem to have little problem with the false accusation of abuse made against him?
Just a question are you still in the force or retired?

Captain Obvious

valoren wrote: »

According to the daughter she confided with her family as far back as 2005. Nothing happened.

In January 06, the suicide scene and the subsequent reporting and demotion happens and by the end of the year a formal complaint is made. Why wasn't that complaint made in 2005? Isn't it incredibly coincidental that it was made after the demotion?

It's no stretch of the imagination to presume that this was a disgruntled Guard who felt he could exploit his daughters memories of McCabe, manipulate it into something sinister, coerce her into abetting such poison and utilize it to destroy McCabe's career in retaliation or at a bare minimum smear his character.

It's a fairly serious allegation with little to no evidence. What lessons are we supposed to be learning from this saga? Is one of them not to make terrible accusations like this?

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So why link McCabe and Mr D and his daughter.

What?

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

McCabe is a father you seem to have little problem with the false accusation of abuse made against him?

I literally said what Callinan did was disgusting.

Plumbthedepths

Captain Obvious wrote:

What?

Simple imo you are throwing muck. Can't be any clearer than that tbh.

Mrsmum

If her parents believed her at the time, why did they do absolutely nothing about it until years later, coincidentally after McCabe had got the father in trouble ? Surely any father worth his salt working day in day out with the other man who he believed had abused his daughter ,would at the very least give McCabe a piece of his mind at some point. Who would blame him if he came to fisty cuffs with McCabe if he believed McCabe abused his daughter. And it seems the mother was only uncivil to McCabe after the DPP cleared him. For years after the tickling incident there is no evidence the mother ever shot McCabe so much as a dirty look. and certainly no accosting him on the street in the intervening years unlike afterwards. Personally I think there was so much badmouthing of McCabe in her home that year that that troubled teenager filled in her own blanks to support her parents negative (because of reporting the dad) view of McCabe and tried to fix her family by ruining their 'enemy'. I think her memory was totally incorrect and unreliable and her parents' chronic dislike of McCabe allowed them to run with it also.