Whistleblower: Maurice McCabe

Plumbthedepths

In regards children's memories of assualt and how they can be coerced. Google Dan and Fran Keller Texas 1991

realdanbreen

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It wasn't covered in the programme as to whether he addressed his subordinates before he went to senior management.

Are you serious? Do you think he spoke with his sub ordinates about their carry on but did not bother mentioning it on last nights programme?

smurgen

batgoat wrote: »

realdanbreen wrote: »

Exactly. It's his methods I have a problem with. It is correct that the wrongdoings were exposed and those who were guilty were disciplined. However informing on them(and that is what it is, calling it whistleblowing in an attempt to soften it doesn't cut any ice) as a first resort is not the way to go as can be clearly seen from the reaction of his colleagues.;

They were interfering in crime scenes while drunk.... Reporting is exactly what you do in such a situation.

I'm not sure about whistle blowing in other industries but i know informing someone you've noticed wrong doing in the financial world is counted as tipping off and a crime in itself.

Captain Obvious wrote: »

valoren wrote: »

According to the daughter she confided with her family as far back as 2005. Nothing happened.

In January 06, the suicide scene and the subsequent reporting and demotion happens and by the end of the year a formal complaint is made. Why wasn't that complaint made in 2005? Isn't it incredibly coincidental that it was made after the demotion?

It's no stretch of the imagination to presume that this was a disgruntled Guard who felt he could exploit his daughters memories of McCabe, manipulate it into something sinister, coerce her into abetting such poison and utilize it to destroy McCabe's career in retaliation or at a bare minimum smear his character.

It's a fairly serious allegation with little to no evidence. What lessons are we supposed to be learning from this saga? Is one of them not to make terrible accusations like this?

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So why link McCabe and Mr D and his daughter.

What?

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

McCabe is a father you seem to have little problem with the false accusation of abuse made against him?

I literally said what Callinan did was disgusting.

It reads to me like you are playing both sides of the fence.very strange wording to your posts.

Mrsmum

realdanbreen wrote: »

Are you serious? Do you think he spoke with his sub ordinates about their carry on but did not bother mentioning it on last nights programme?

Maybe he didn't mention it in the TV programme because it really isn't the substantive issue in his story.

Captain Obvious

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Simple imo you are throwing muck. Can't be any clearer than that tbh.

Whatever floats your boat.

Mrsmum wrote: »

If her parents believed her at the time, why did they do absolutely nothing about it until years later, coincidentally after McCabe had got the father in trouble ? Surely any father worth his salt working day in day out with the other man who he believed had abused his daughter ,would at the very least give McCabe a piece of his mind at some point. Who would blame him if he came to fisty cuffs with McCabe if he believed McCabe abused his daughter. And it seems the mother was only uncivil to McCabe after the DPP cleared him. For years after the tickling incident there is no evidence the mother ever shot McCabe so much as a dirty look. and certainly no accosting him on the street in the intervening years unlike afterwards.


Personally I think there was so much badmouthing of McCabe in her home that year that that troubled girl filled in her own blanks to support her parents negative (because of reporting the dad) view of McCabe and tried to fix her family by ruining their 'enemy'. I think her memory was totally incorrect and unreliable and her parents allowed their cronic dislike of McCabe to run with it also.

Reasonable questions and theory. But should it be accepted as true simply because it fits? It just seems a little hypocritical to me to muddy another Garda, and his daughter, with such horrible accusations based on very little substantive evidence. I would be interested in McCabe's hones opinion on Ms D. Did he address it in the documentary?

Captain Obvious

smurgen wrote: »

It reads to me like you are playing both sides of the fence.very strange wording to your posts.

Not my intention. I've been critical of McCabe in the past about some things but I've come around to seeing it from his side. I don't fault him for anything he has done. He was between a rock and a hard place. I just see people doing similar to Garda D and his daughter as what Callinan did to McCabe.

Mrsmum

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Whatever floats your boat.





Reasonable questions and theory. But should it be accepted as true simply because it fits? It just seems a little hypocritical to me to muddy another Garda, and his daughter, with such horrible accusations based on very little substantive evidence. I would be interested in McCabe's hones opinion on Ms D. Did he address it in the documentary?

Well what we do know for certain is that after an investigation McCabe was declared an innocent man. Not only that but there was doubt as to whether anything even happened at all. So we can all only fill in our own blanks as to why the girl made a claim against him.


Personally I feel the dad would want to be really sick to have made her do it and he would also want to be sick to want to (as in to take any delight in) believe it but I do think he hated McCabe and that made him a sponge for believing her false story. And I believe she heard enough badmouthing about McCabe to make him the villain of maybe something of nothing but that embarrassed her when she was a child.

davidmarsh

Captain Obvious wrote: »

That's my point really. I think everyone agrees that what Callinan did in telling people McCabe was a kiddy fiddler was disgusting. Yet some of the same people seem fine in alleging an almost equally despicable thing against Mr D and his daughter.

Just so we're clear, it's only my opinion but I believe that guy is a very sick puppy. I don't believe anything happened.

And hearing McCabe hear he was uncomfortable washing his own kids after and avoiding other kids... jesus I'm a dad myself and it would break your heart what they did to him.

Hero doesn't do him justice.

howiya

smurgen wrote: »

I'm not sure about whistle blowing in other industries but i know informing someone you've noticed wrong doing in the financial world is counted as tipping off and a crime in itself.

That's in relation to money laundering and only applies if you inform the person you suspect of money laundering.

If you report to it to the organisation's MLRO (Money Laundering Reporting Officer) it is not a crime. The MLRO then reports the incident to the Gardai.

jmayo

inthehat wrote: »

Fair dues to John McGuinness. He was faced with a serious dilemma. Making the wrong judgement would have cost him his career, but thankfully he choose to trust Maurice McCabe and it was the right decision.

He is one of the few fianna failers I would have a lot of time for and it is especially because of this case.

cursai wrote: »

What did he actually expose? That some people didn't like him?

He's a media strawman

Foggy Jew wrote: »

How many other campaigns have been orchestrated against innocent people? I wonder how Callinan, Sgt McCabes colleagues with the plastic rat, their 'friends' who blanked them etc enjoyed this evenings programme? A lot of squirming, I bet.
It beggars belief that Callinan is collecting a big fat pension. He should be behind bars.

Remember the McBreartys in Donegal ?

tretorn wrote: »

I have to agree, he seems to have complained about everyone he ever worked with and in fairness we have spent enough time on him now. I wouldnt like colleagues to be going snitching about me behind my back, there has to be an element of trust between people working together.

The Government have kicked the Gardai up and down the street over this and to be honest I think the vast majority of the Gardai work very hard and do a very good job, we can do without plenty of politicans but we wont last five minutes without the Gardai.

I was led to believe points were being cancelled all over the place but it turns out very few points were actually cancelled and most of the cancelled ones were cancelled for recorded reasons.

I think the new commissioner saying he isnt sure that Callinans costs will be paid will make the general body of Gardai very angry. They are probably angry enough about the top job going to an outsider and who can blame them.

Fook the Garda who think like that and like you, because a hell of a lot of them are incompetent lazy wastes of space and due to the revelations of brave Maurice McCabe have been found to be corrupt.

And a lot of our population are having to do without Garda already.
Hell a lot of people now only ring the Garda about breakins and thefts for insurance reasons.
They don't expect anything to be done about it.

Captain Obvious wrote: »

That's not what I'm saying. I know he did nothing wrong but that doesn't mean Ms D or her father did either. It's not a binary situation.

But there is no evidence of that. Why is that an OK claim to make? It's a horrible accusation to make against a father. Is it not hypocritical to complain about false accusations about McCabe while making unsubstantiated accusations against someone else.

What a coincidence that she made the complain only after her father had been reprimanded due to Maurice McCabe. :rolleyes:

Fooks sake you must think we all came down in the last shower.

Ehh the accusation against McCabe was far far worse with much worse outcomes for him.

Captain Obvious

jmayo wrote: »

What a coincidence that she made the complain only after her father had been reprimanded due to Maurice McCabe.

Why do you think she went back for counselling when she was older? Do you think that was malicious on her part?

smurgen

Captain Obvious wrote: »

jmayo wrote: »

What a coincidence that she made the complain only after her father had been reprimanded due to Maurice McCabe.

Why do you think she went back for counselling when she was older? Do you think that was malicious on her part?

Do you know what her and her counsellor discussed?maybe she'd screwed up because he father messed her up.

Knex*

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think the guards are like the priests. While the good ones turn a blind eye/ cover up/minimise/deny re the actions of the bad ones, they implicate themselves in the disgusting behaviour of the far fewer number of bad ones. It is in their own best interests to have a good image and the bad ones are smearing the public image of them all. But just like the church I fear the most of them would prefer everything to stay hidden.

Only where the church attempted to cover up child abuse, the guards willfully and falsely accused one of their own for it.

It is absolutely crazy.

Mrsmum

Knex. wrote: »

Only where the church attempted to cover up child abuse, the guards willfully and falsely accused one of their own for it.

It is absolutely crazy.

He lost membership of the 'one of (our) own' club once he started to tell the truth about some of them.

Knex*

valoren wrote: »

According to the daughter she confided with her family as far back as 2005. Nothing happened.

In January 06, the suicide scene and the subsequent reporting and demotion happens and by the end of the year a formal complaint is made. Why wasn't that complaint made in 2005? Isn't it incredibly coincidental that it was made after the demotion?

It's no stretch of the imagination to presume that this was a disgruntled Guard who felt he could exploit his daughters memories of McCabe, manipulate it into something sinister, coerce her into abetting such poison and utilize it to destroy McCabe's career in retaliation or at a bare minimum smear his character.

It's easy to extrapolate past events, with no witnesses and twist them to suit an agenda. Been on the receiving end of such caluminous poison myself but nowhere near the level of sexual assault.

Devils advocate here. Could have been a "guards don't report guards" attitude in 2005 and he told his daughter to drop it.

Then in 06, after McCabe reported him, he thought well feck that old rule so, and brought it back up. As Mrsmum said above, he lost his membership to the club then.

Plumbthedepths

realdanbreen wrote:

Are you serious? Do you think he spoke with his sub ordinates about their carry on but did not bother mentioning it on last nights programme?

Of course I'm serious. You seem to think that the Sergeant in charge has the right to handle all disciplinary matters and say nothing to his superiors. I served in the military and have worked in management in the private sector since I left. You are clueless as to how matters of discipline should be dealt with . First of all it depends on severity of transgression committed and the discretion of the immediate supervisor as to whether they are allowed to deal with it or inform more senior management. 3 off duty guards driving an unmarked Garda car while drunk is outside the sanctionable remitt of the sergeant in charge.

Muahahaha

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I don't really see anyone attacking McCabe, but they are going after the group think hero worship.

McCabe was ultimately shown to be wrong about the allegations of systemic abuse of the penalty points system and the **** show in Bailieborough garda station was really a local matter, not a national one.

The scandal (and it is a scandal) was how he was treated after he made his well meaning but incorrect allegations in relation to the penalty points, but I don't see how that makes him a national hero.

Even more slurring of his name going on here. McCabe was not wrong about the penalty points and it was found that there was systemic abuse- one single Garda cancelled 774 points across 17 different Garda districts. That was only the tip of the iceberg, this was going on wholesale across the country. People who were mates with Gardai could get points cancelled for next to nothing. Even Callinan himself got penalty points for speeding and had them wiped.

You should really get your facts straight before you try to slur the name of a good man.

davidmarsh

Didn't Ms D instruct her legal team to drop everything associated with this thing and said she wants nothing more to do with it.

I think it's pretty obvious what happened here.

MrMusician18

Muahahaha wrote: »

Even more slurring of his name going on here. McCabe was not wrong about the penalty points and it was found that there was systemic abuse- one single Garda cancelled 774 points across 17 different Garda districts. That was only the tip of the iceberg, this was going on wholesale across the country. People who were mates with Gardai could get points cancelled for next to nothing. Even Callinan himself got penalty points for speeding and had them wiped.

You should really get your facts straight before you try to slur the name of a good man.

There was a report that said that no?
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PB13000190

I am open to correction however.

Plumbthedepths

MrMusician18 wrote:

I am open to correction however.

Throw up the CAAG report while you're at it.

stoneill

MrMusician18 wrote: »

There was a report that said that no?
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PB13000190

I am open to correction however.

He he -see who's name is at the end?

Plumbthedepths

Can't link off my phone but there was an interesting article in the Irish Examiner 14th March 2014 regarding 3 sperate reports into the penalty points issue.

Raheem Euro

A coincidence all these accusations cooked up directed and McCabe and then dropped when he didn't fold and stood his ground.

The other big one was the loss of the evidential computer in a pedophile investigation into a priest. Guards were all going to testify that the computer had been handed to McCabe and he took it into his possession. Then it was lost - the implication would be deliberately lost. Once again dirtying him with tag that would turn everyone against him - paedo. McCabe could do little more than deny this. He was saved by incredible good luck and carelessness on the part of the people out to destroy him. The original investigation file was acquired by an ally in the station. Original documents proved he had nothing to do with evidence and the computer was never given to him. The stich up was dropped. With no explanation from or action taken against those involved.

MrMusician18

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Throw up the CAAG report while you're at it.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/SP13000344

That didn't find evidence of corruption either, but laxity in record keeping and general unprofessionalism in the system.

It broadly echoed the O'Mahoney report as far as I remember?

It is worth noting that McCabe did reject the findings of the O'Mahoney report.

Plumbthedepths

MrMusician18 wrote:

That didn't find evidence of corruption either, but laxity in record keeping and general unprofessionalism in the system.

Dude there is no point you linking the justice dept report again. Besides the compliants made by McCabe stretched beyond the penalty points. I wouldn't be using the PP to try and attack his integrity tbh.

JP Liz V1

djPSB wrote: »

Callinan should be locked up.

Not at home with a big pension that is for sure

MrMusician18

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Dude there is no point you linking the justice dept report again. Besides the compliants made by McCabe stretched beyond the penalty points. I wouldn't be using the PP to try and attack his integrity tbh.

I linked a dail statement in relation to the C&AG report.

I'm not attacking his integrity, or trying to besmirch his good name. And what happened to him and how other guards tried to destroy him was an absolute scandal.


What I am saying is that the official report on the penalty points scandal doesn't match the narrative of the thread.

davidmarsh

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What I am saying is that the official report on the penalty points scandal doesn't match the narrative of the thread.

"Official"

Almost a funny word at this stage

ohnonotgmail

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I linked a dail statement in relation to the C&AG report.

I'm not attacking his integrity, or trying to besmirch his good name. And what happened to him and how other guards tried to destroy him was an absolute scandal.


What I am saying is that the official report on the penalty points scandal doesn't match the narrative of the thread.

3 officers had disciplinary investigations taken against them for cancelling points they were not authorised to cancel. 10,000 fcpn cancelled a year using discretionary powers. Gardai cancelling tickets for family members. Gardai cancelling tickets that were well outside their district. I'm not sure what you call that except corruption. The O'Mahony report was a whitewash. the gardai are incapable of investigating themselves.

Plumbthedepths

MrMusician18 wrote:

What I am saying is that the official report on the penalty points scandal doesn't match the narrative of the thread.

Already pointed out to you a couple of times there's more to the McCabe debacle than just penalty points. Although you seem to be obsessing about that aspect of it. Anyway enjoy tonight's part two.