removing a radiator??

LazySamaritan

I have very, very basic knowledge regarding plumbing. Anything I know I saw my father do and I've come to discover he had some very contrary and awkward ways of doing things. So I'm also worried I'm doing a job wrong.:rolleyes:

I have a small box room. I have been considering getting rid of the radiator to set up a computer desk in that part of the room. The radiator is old and has some rust - but isn't leaking.

I know how to remove the radiator, drain it etc. but capping the pipes under floor has me worried - first that I might not do it right but also even if I did that it could later cause problems and might need to be accessed. I'm putting in a new floor and don't what to have to pull that up.

Is it better to just put in a new radiator or leave the pipes sticking up from the floor? Or am I worrying about something silly?

Seve OB

LazySamaritan wrote: »

I have very, very basic knowledge regarding plumbing. Anything I know I saw my father do and I've come to discover he had some very contrary and awkward ways of doing things. So I'm also worried I'm doing a job wrong.:rolleyes:

I have a small box room. I have been considering getting rid of the radiator to set up a computer desk in that part of the room. The radiator is old and has some rust - but isn't leaking.

I know how to remove the radiator, drain it etc. but capping the pipes under floor has me worried - first that I might not do it right but also even if I did that it could later cause problems and might need to be accessed. I'm putting in a new floor and don't what to have to pull that up.

Is it better to just put in a new radiator or leave the pipes sticking up from the floor? Or am I worrying about something silly?

Get a plumber?

LazySamaritan

Seve OB wrote: »

Get a plumber?

This is the DIY section.

Getting a plumber is not DIY.

listermint

Dont remove radiators from any rooms ever - unless its to put a doorway or something on an external wall. Even in that case have the radiator moved.

If you want to refurbish it you could simply sand it down - including rusty parts and repaint it.

You can also get a new radiator (reasonably cheaply oddly enough) and replace it.

This would involve turning off the Taps on both sides of the existing rad (turning them clockwise till they stop.

Placing a shallow tray under one side and then loosen the Nut between the radiator and the tap Valve. This will drain the water into the tray - may need more than 1 tray as the radiator is filled with water. It can be black (thats normal)

once water stops, loosen the other nut on the other side to free the rad from the Tap Valves and lift it up and off the wall.

For the new on, do the opposite - tighten all the valves , and you may have to put in new radiator hangers that come with new rad as old ones might be out of place.


Turn on the valves when all tight and mounted - bleed the radiator.

Turn the heating on for a bit then bleed again.

LazySamaritan

listermint wrote: »

Dont remove radiators from any rooms ever - unless its to put a doorway or something on an external wall. Even in that case have the radiator moved.

Why should it not be done?

listermint

LazySamaritan wrote: »

Why should it not be done?

you removing the only heat source from a room.

That makes the space cold and open to damp.

and will have a knock on effect to rooms that border it.

Its a nonsense solution and quite damaging.

LazySamaritan

listermint wrote: »

you removing the only heat source from a room.

That makes the space cold and open to damp.

and will have a knock on effect to rooms that border it.

Its a nonsense solution and quite damaging.

I want to put the room to use and would have an electric heater in the cold months. At the moment the room is rarely used and the radiator has never been on. It was the same with the previous owner. Not an exaggeration - never been on and there is no issues that I know off.

As I said my knowledge is basic. What is the knock on effect? What should I look for in other rooms?

listermint

Ok take it out so.


..............................................

Lumen

Why would you take a radiator out with the intention of using an electric heater?

I can only imagine because you're solely occupying that room and don't want the heating on in the rest of the house. In which case zoning is a better idea.

leinster93

LazySamaritan wrote: »

I have very, very basic knowledge regarding plumbing. Anything I know I saw my father do and I've come to discover he had some very contrary and awkward ways of doing things. So I'm also worried I'm doing a job wrong.:rolleyes:

I have a small box room. I have been considering getting rid of the radiator to set up a computer desk in that part of the room. The radiator is old and has some rust - but isn't leaking.

I know how to remove the radiator, drain it etc. but capping the pipes under floor has me worried - first that I might not do it right but also even if I did that it could later cause problems and might need to be accessed. I'm putting in a new floor and don't what to have to pull that up.

Is it better to just put in a new radiator or leave the pipes sticking up from the floor? Or am I worrying about something silly?

I would

1. drain the heating system
2. Disconnect radiator (Empty water from radiator into bucket)

3. Put towel around pipes to dry up excess water
4. Hacksaw the copper pipe or cut using pipe cutter (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-245067-Quick-Pipe-Cutter/dp/B000O55KW4/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1542125968&sr=1-1&refinements=p_72%3A419153031

to be beneath wooden floor level (Pipe should be cut horizontal/level).


You want copper pipe below floor level in order to install new floor.
You will have to take up a section of the floorboard around both pipes so you can cut it beneath the floor and cap it.


Two ways to cap the copper pipe. Compression fitting with olive or cap and seal it with gas burner/solder. Putting back and securing the section of floorboard is the tricky bit. Sometimes easier to take the whole floorboard up...
For capping using gas burner you need a cap example https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Solder-Blank-1-2-inch-T51.html?filter_set[]=1891,1900,1946&page=2

Easier and cheaper to use stop end compression fitting
https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Compression-Stop-End-1-2-inch-351.html?filter_set[]=1891,1900,1973

LazySamaritan

Lumen wrote: »

Why would you take a radiator out with the intention of using an electric heater?

I can only imagine because you're solely occupying that room and don't want the heating on in the rest of the house. In which case zoning is a better idea.

The radiator is in the way of the ideal place for the computer desk and other things I want to set up. The radiator wouldn't be on anyway and rather than work around it I figured just get rid of it. The electric heater would just be there for if it gets cold while I'm in there.

EDIT: No I'll just be using the room for an hour or two each evening and there are others in the house. So zoning is not necessary. It is just that the radiator is in the way and not used in that room so I figured it was better to get rid of it.

listermint mentioned it could lead to problems in other rooms but that radiator has never been used and I haven't noticed anything but I maybe there is and I just don't see it.

LazySamaritan

leinster93 wrote: »

I would

1. drain the heating system
2. Disconnect radiator (Empty water from radiator into bucket)

3. Put towel around pipes to dry up excess water
4. Hacksaw the copper pipe or cut using pipe cutter (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-245067-Quick-Pipe-Cutter/dp/B000O55KW4/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1542125968&sr=1-1&refinements=p_72%3A419153031

to be beneath wooden floor level (Pipe should be cut horizontal/level).


You want copper pipe below floor level in order to install new floor.
You will have to take up a section of the floorboard around both pipes so you can cut it beneath the floor and cap it.


Two ways to cap the copper pipe. Compression fitting with olive or cap and seal it with gas burner/solder. Putting back and securing the section of floorboard is the tricky bit. Sometimes easier to take the whole floorboard up...
For capping using gas burner you need a cap example https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Solder-Blank-1-2-inch-T51.html?filter_set[]=1891,1900,1946&page=2

Easier and cheaper to use stop end compression fitting
https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Compression-Stop-End-1-2-inch-351.html?filter_set[]=1891,1900,1973

I can't open those Goodwin links - something up with my internet because random websites won't load for me.

I think I'm up to the job you lay out here but is there a chance in the future that these could leak (even if I got in a plumber). Would it be wiser to not cap them under the floor or am I worried about nothing?

leinster93

LazySamaritan wrote: »

I can't open those Goodwin links - something up with my internet because random websites won't load for me.

I think I'm up to the job you lay out here but is there a chance in the future that these could leak (even if I got in a plumber). Would it be wiser to not cap them under the floor or am I worried about nothing?

For compression fittings you will need PTFE tape.

1. Put two loops of ptfe tape around thread of compression fitting

2. you will need two spanners - one to tighten nut and the other to hold while tightening

Here's a link on how it's done with compression fittings. https://youtu.be/rbAy3dcdSvk?t=180



I would go the gas lamp method as it is easier to get access to - re no spanners needed. Soldering the cap on is better.
If either methods are done right you should test the system in any case. If done right they will hold.

Here's a link to how it's done with a gas burner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfY5vrPcBEk

Without such experience I would get a plumber to be sure it's done right. If you insist on doing it yourself, leave the floor open for a week to ensure all is ok.

Carpenter

Leave the pipes there

tradesman

Leave the pipes above ground. Cut off using proper pipe cutting tool then fit a push on stop cap. Make sure the pipe is cut properly or you will damage the ring inside the cap

Thomyokk

tradesman wrote: »

Leave the pipes above ground. Cut off using proper pipe cutting tool then fit a push on stop cap. Make sure the pipe is cut properly or you will damage the ring inside the cap

Hi what type of tool and cap

I'm doing a similar job and pipes are close enough to wall

TheBoyConor

Your proposal is madness op. How big can the radiator be that it would prevent putting in a computer desk. I think it's only an excuse. if you must utilise that space the get a desk where the back end of it will oversail the radiator. If need be you could even make a cutout on one side of the desk to accommodate the radiator.

Sure the room may not be in use at the moment and not be causing a problem but if you remove the only heat source and then use the room the moisture you exhale may condense on the cold surfaces and cause mold.

Did you ever think that the electric heater would actually occupy space also? And being free standing, it would probably be even more obtrusive than a wall mounted rad. They also would be a far greater fire hazard than a normal radiator.

If the radiator is bulky and in poor condition and you really want to change it then there are options for skinny radiators that won't take up as much space. But you're getting into a lot of work and effort just to save an inch or two of space.

I'd let it be OP. Anyone who comes into the room afterwards will be like "where the f* is the radiator gone?"
Anyway, it is your father's house so it's not for you to dictate what is done with the place.

b318isp

Just to warn, to cut and blank the feed pipes, the system will need to be drained to below the floor level.

I'd suggest getting the experts in if you are not sure how to do this, or how to refill the system without airlocking.

Sleeper12

LazySamaritan wrote: »

This is the DIY section.

Getting a plumber is not DIY.

It is if you Dial It Yourself:pac:

Sleeper12

LazySamaritan wrote: »

I have very, very basic knowledge regarding plumbing. Anything I know I saw my father do and I've come to discover he had some very contrary and awkward ways of doing things. So I'm also worried I'm doing a job wrong.:rolleyes:

I have a small box room. I have been considering getting rid of the radiator to set up a computer desk in that part of the room. The radiator is old and has some rust - but isn't leaking.

I know how to remove the radiator, drain it etc. but capping the pipes under floor has me worried - first that I might not do it right but also even if I did that it could later cause problems and might need to be accessed. I'm putting in a new floor and don't what to have to pull that up.




Is it better to just put in a new radiator or leave the pipes sticking up from the floor? Or am I worrying about something silly?

Personally I think you'll need a rad there in winter


If removing you need to identify what type of pipes & what size. Half inch copper or qualpex are the norm but if your rad is from the 80s you could well discover that it's gun-barrel pipe. This is much harder for a non plumber to work with.


If the rad is upstairs you need to drain the heating system down for the whole upstairs inc the rad itself


If it's half inch copper or qualpex you just cut the pipe & pop on a textite or instantor blank. Then fill the system again


If it's gun barrel it's harder. These pipes are threaded & you can't just cut them & blank them

Thomyokk

How do you get the water out of the ground floor pipework when there's no drain off point below it?

Sleeper12

Thomyokk wrote: »

How do you get the water out of the ground floor pipework when there's no drain off point below it?

Rad in hall. Close both valves. Open airvent. Get strong black bag & position under valve. Open nut between valve & pipe & carefully drain the water. Towels under wont hurt as water will be black & you dont want to stain carpet. Once rad is drained you can twist a valve so its facing away from the rad towards the front door. Attach a garden hose & open the valve. You will need to oped vents on udstairs rads to empty them

Thomyokk

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Rad in hall. Close both valves. Open airvent. Get strong black bag & position under valve. Open nut between valve & pipe & carefully drain the water. Towels under wont hurt as water will be black & you dont want to stain carpet. Once rad is drained you can twist a valve so its facing away from the rad towards the front door. Attach a garden hose & open the valve. You will need to oped vents on udstairs rads to empty them

Ok but won't you still be left with the water at ground level in the pipes?

Sleeper12

I'm having trouble posting for some reason. I'll try again

To drain the ground floor you need to drain upstairs first. Then repeat what you have done. Open the downstairs valves & vents. This will drain the water downstairs

ArrBee

What about getting a different computer desk that "fits around" the rad?
This would allow you to just leave it there and put your desk against the wall without hassle...

I've been fortunate enough to be able to do that with my desk due to the design of it.
The rad is in use and keeps my toes warm too.

listermint

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm having trouble posting for some reason. I'll try again

To drain the ground floor you need to drain upstairs first. Then repeat what you have done. Open the downstairs valves & vents. This will drain the water downstairs

Or just drain the whole system from the boiler outlet valve

leinster93

Thomyokk wrote: »

Hi what type of tool and cap

I'm doing a similar job and pipes are close enough to wall

I've used a mini-hack for tight spaces.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-Hand-Jab-Hacksaw-Mini-Jr-Junior-Small-Saw-Electrician-Plumbing-Hand-Tools-/292665618762


Once cut use a file to smooth the edge of the copper pipe and the end stop will fit clean onto the pipe aswell as the olive.

Sleeper12

listermint wrote:

Or just drain the whole system from the boiler outlet valve

This is higher than the ground floor rads if wall mounted boiler so won't drain ground floor

listermint

Sleeper12 wrote: »

This is higher than the ground floor rads if wall mounted boiler so won't drain ground floor

True true

Thomyokk

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm having trouble posting for some reason. I'll try again

To drain the ground floor you need to drain upstairs first. Then repeat what you have done. Open the downstairs valves & vents. This will drain the water downstairs

You're still left with the water at ground level in the pipework

Sleeper12

Thomyokk wrote:

You're still left with the water at ground level in the pipework

This does not get drained as its below rad level & has no pressure. If you need to work on the pipes under the floor the water left in the pipes will drain onto the concrete under the floor and dry in a few hours

Sleeper12

Thomyokk wrote: »

You're still left with the water at ground level in the pipework

This is killing me. Several of my posts aren't posting & I'm typing the same thing several times. Is it just me or has Boards been really bad this week?


The water left in the pipework is below rad level & wont effect blanking the pipes above the floor as the water has no pressure now or almost no pressure.



If you need to work on the pipes under the floor any water in the pipes will slowly run onto the concrete under the floor. This will dry within an hour or so & does no damage.

anheneti

leinster93 wrote: »

For compression fittings you will need PTFE tape.

1. Put two loops of ptfe tape around thread of compression fitting

2. you will need two spanners - one to tighten nut and the other to hold while tightening

(Do not put PTFE on the thread of a compression fitting)

leinster93

anheneti wrote: »

leinster93 wrote: »

For compression fittings you will need PTFE tape.

1. Put two loops of ptfe tape around thread of compression fitting

2. you will need two spanners - one to tighten nut and the other to hold while tightening

(Do not put PTFE on the thread of a compression fitting)

As this is the DIY forum, care to elaborate on why, so one can learn from another persons mistakes?

GreeBo

OP I don't understand why you wouldn't just leave the rad under the desk.

I have a desk within an alcove and a rad underneath and its a non issue.
The room keeps a heat source and I have a desk....

Sleeper12

leinster93 wrote: »

anheneti wrote: »

As this is the DIY forum care to elaborate why so one can learn from another persons mistakes?

I often suggest if a poster has a plumbing question that they should ask in the plumbing forum even if they plan on doing it themselves.


You never put tape on the threads of a compression fitting as the threads never leak. The fitting can only fail at the olive/ ring. This is where plumbers put the tape. It's a complete waste of time & tape putting it on the threads. Personally I only use tape in the very rare situation where the fitting starts weeping. otherwise I don't use tape at all

leinster93

Sleeper12 wrote: »

leinster93 wrote: »

I often suggest if a poster has a plumbing question that they should ask in the plumbing forum even if they plan on doing it themselves.


You never put tape on the threads of a compression fitting as the threads never leak. The fitting can only fail at the olive/ ring. This is where plumbers put the tape. It's a complete waste of time & tape putting it on the threads. Personally I only use tape in the very rare situation where the fitting starts weeping. otherwise I don't use tape at all

No problem. I considered this after posting. Thanks I understand the reasoning. I have seen on occasion where an old fitting is leaking and in fear of tightening the nut too much, then ptfe is placed around the olive and the threads. Lazy way out I suppose.

LazySamaritan

tradesman wrote: »

Leave the pipes above ground. Cut off using proper pipe cutting tool then fit a push on stop cap. Make sure the pipe is cut properly or you will damage the ring inside the cap

This is what I had been thinking. The desk would be there so it would block the pipes from sight and from accidentally walking into them. Easy enough to knock together something to cover them if need be.

Thomyokk

What tool is best for cutting a rad pipe?

Sleeper12

Thomyokk wrote:

What tool is best for cutting a rad pipe?

What type of pipe is it? Qualpex, copper, gun bar etc? Different tools for different types of pipe

Thomyokk

Sleeper12 wrote: »

What type of pipe is it? Qualpex, copper, gun bar etc? Different tools for different types of pipe

Copper

LazySamaritan

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Your proposal is madness op. How big can the radiator be that it would prevent putting in a computer desk. I think it's only an excuse. if you must utilise that space the get a desk where the back end of it will oversail the radiator. If need be you could even make a cutout on one side of the desk to accommodate the radiator.

Sure the room may not be in use at the moment and not be causing a problem but if you remove the only heat source and then use the room the moisture you exhale may condense on the cold surfaces and cause mold.

Did you ever think that the electric heater would actually occupy space also? And being free standing, it would probably be even more obtrusive than a wall mounted rad. They also would be a far greater fire hazard than a normal radiator.

If the radiator is bulky and in poor condition and you really want to change it then there are options for skinny radiators that won't take up as much space. But you're getting into a lot of work and effort just to save an inch or two of space.

I'd let it be OP. Anyone who comes into the room afterwards will be like "where the f* is the radiator gone?"
Anyway, it is your father's house so it's not for you to dictate what is done with the place.

An excuse? What do mean?

The radiator is in the way of the desk and the back end of the desk will not accommodate it as you suggest. This is just the way the way it is.

Obviously the electric heater I have is smaller and the fact it is free standing means it is less intrusive. Isn't anything with a plug and wiring a fire hazard? If we worried about that we wouldn't use any device.

I don't want a radiator at that location in the room and there is not much sense is in a new radiator behind a desk irrelevant of it's size. I would imagine that wouldn't be good for a computer.

EDIT: It isn't my father's house. I don' know what makes you think that. Anyway, are not all Irish households the mother's house.

listermint

Thomyokk wrote: »

Copper

A rigid pipe cutter.


Google them. Won't beat them for pipe cutting

listermint

LazySamaritan wrote: »

An excuse? What do mean?

The radiator is in the way of the desk and the back end of the desk will not accommodate it as you suggest. This is just the way the way it is.

Obviously the electric heater I have is smaller and the fact it is free standing means it is less intrusive. Isn't anything with a plug and wiring a fire hazard? If we worried about that we wouldn't use any device.

I don't want a radiator at that location in the room and there is not much sense is in a new radiator behind a desk irrelevant of it's size. I would imagine that wouldn't be good for a computer.

As stated before your only feckin up the heat source of the room. The next owner will be asking where the bloody rad went to.

You don't remove rads for a pc desk. It's over kill

Sleeper12

LazySamaritan wrote:

An excuse? What do mean?

Usually you make the furniture fit around the fittings. I'm sure op knows what they are doing but it is very unusual to alter fittings to accommodate furniture.

LazySamaritan

ArrBee wrote: »

What about getting a different computer desk that "fits around" the rad?
This would allow you to just leave it there and put your desk against the wall without hassle...

I've been fortunate enough to be able to do that with my desk due to the design of it.
The rad is in use and keeps my toes warm too.

Does the heat from the radiator not affect the computer?

Sleeper12

Thomyokk wrote:

Copper

Google half inch slice. Assuming it's a half inch pipe

Sleeper12

LazySamaritan wrote:

Does the heat from the radiator not affect the computer?

No. Computers are designed to run in warm rooms. They have internal fans

hatchman

Can the op not just turn off both valves and remove rad and leave both pipes above floor and make desk fit around them? No pipe cutting blanking required and simple job to put rad back if ever required.

LazySamaritan

GreeBo wrote: »

OP I don't understand why you wouldn't just leave the rad under the desk.

I have a desk within an alcove and a rad underneath and its a non issue.
The room keeps a heat source and I have a desk....

It is in the way. I don't know how to explain it without starting a very long post that no one will read anyway. Does the hrweat from the radiator not affect the computer?

I want the radiator gone - it is my first choice. I didn't intend though that it was absolute and I thought I posted later that I'd look at other options. Maybe I didn't post that because of the my internet going wonky on Tuesday evening.

As I said the radiator has never been used. The previous owners used the room for storage only. I turned the radiator on last night and I'm not sure it is actually working. The room is not as cold as it was previously but the radiator is cold. In typically fashion things keep getting busy when I try to make time to check it.

Sleeper12

hatchman wrote:

Can the op not just turn off both valves and remove rad and leave both pipes above floor and make desk fit around them? No pipe cutting blanking required and simple job to put rad back if ever required.

Yes but usually both valves don't shut off 100 percent. Usually one valve will at the very least drip. Best advice is blank off the pipes or leave the rad