Ireland v New Zealand match thread

irishbucsfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

SBW wouldn't have improved that all black team yesterday.

Crotty and goodhue missed none of their 36 tackles.

I wouldn't be picking SBW for his tackling myself...

vicwatson

Anyone know if this will be shown in full again?

The Talking Bread

vicwatson wrote: »

Anyone know if this will be shown in full again?

it would be on RTE player

sydthebeat

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I wouldn't be picking SBW for his tackling myself...

Agreed he brings a different skill set.... But that game yesterday wouldn't have been the best conditions to suit those skills, in my opinion course. He hasn't reached the heights of preformance this year that he showed three years ago.

Dog Botherer

Full RTE coverage of the match.

dulpit

Amprodude wrote: »

The All Greens beat the All Blacks 🀗

Ireland wear white shorts...

The real mccoy 91

One big thing I took from the first half was them kicking for goal and a drop goal (whether that was a personal thing for barrett that I can kick drop goals) but not very often do you see them desperate to take the points then we get a penalty and go for the corner now it didn't work out but how refreshing is the intent and inventivness that we now show with no fear

Arequipa

Fantastic match yesterday... we were just so committed, professional, physical, ..
I thought it was interesting to see how knackered lots of the All Blacks looked.. they were constantly sucking in air.. we just had them under pressure for every second..

It was interesting how Retalik was hit hard, and fairly x2 times & he looked shook up..

I think the fact that the AB are at the end of a long season, after lots of travel, and us being at home gave us a small advantage.. as committed as the ABs were.. I imagine behind it all they were dreaming of cold drinks and warm sunshine back in NZ...

I think the AB were way ahead of everyone else for a few years... but we have caught up.. we are as fit and strong as them, nearly as skillful, and we have our training, preparation, rest, recovery, medical programmes all up to their levels...

I think this Irish team is probably the best sporting team this country has ever produced... a team Roy Keane would have dreamt about in soccer...


A

Shefwedfan

Too many pages.....not sure if it has been pointed out

Ireland closed out the game without the following on the field
SOB, Murray, Sexton, Best, Healy, Toner, Kearney, POM

No idea how many caps that is but that is the majority of the senior players.

A very young team, normally once we would lose those critical players the team would fall apart. Very impressive from a young team to hold out NZ

penybont exile

Ireland were excellent ... well deserved victory but I wouldn't get too carried away ...... a lot of water to flow under the bridge before RWC.

It was pretty even-steven with Ireland superior in the first half & NZ in the second. Ultimately it became a tale of two bounces ..... one perfect for Stockdale & the other not so perfect for Smith.

Asus X540L

Dumb question but why do Ireland keep kicking the ball away at the end?

It was a great performance but why did they have to give the blacks a chance to score a try which they are more than capable of?

Were they on the verge of giving away a penalty? Cause they only had to hold it for 60 more seconds but then Luke McGrath kicked it back to NZ.

It was only a Brodie knock-on that gave the game to Ireland. He held that and I reckon NZ would have ended up scoring.

Dog Botherer

Asus X540L wrote: »

Dumb question but why do Ireland keep kicking the ball away at the end?

It was a great performance but why did they have to give the blacks a chance to score a try which they are more than capable of?

Were they on the verge of giving away a penalty? Cause they only had to hold it for 60 more seconds but then Luke McGrath kicked it back to NZ

Barnes had already warned them about going off their feet and sealing off at the breakdown, better to put the ball 40 yards upfield and give away possession than give away a penalty and be stuck on our tryline. Also, going wide risks giving a way turnover ball, which NZ are lethal off of, especially against tiring defences. Far better to kick and reset a defensive line, which had been imperious all game.

troyzer

We would have been penalised a phase or two later. You can't pick and go for two minutes and clear off your feet, penalty all day.

Shefwedfan

Asus X540L wrote: »

Dumb question but why do Ireland keep kicking the ball away at the end?

It was a great performance but why did they have to give the blacks a chance to score a try which they are more than capable of?

Were they on the verge of giving away a penalty? Cause they only had to hold it for 60 more seconds but then Luke McGrath kicked it back to NZ

I think it was a mistake but as mentioned above a young team


Last time in the match that should not be remembered, Ireland held onto the ball and they got pinged at half way line and NZ went on to score that try. It was never a penalty but they just kept going with 1 out runners and the ref's get pissed


A few people on another forum said Barnes warned Ireland about 1 out runners. I didn't hear but just wondering if correct? so that woudl suggest McGrath had to do something....



I think the plan with the kick was to keep it along the touch line and get a good chase, then try and pin them back into the cornor, but fatigue played it part and NZ got out. I think Joe said that in interview at end



Also most of the game with our kicking Ireland had gained some great field position, I think the players at that stage where too tired.....also no real capatin on the field to make the big call....

johnnyskeleton

Probably the most exciting single try match I've ever seen.

Would like to see the match again on RTE cos I watched it in the pub and one's perception is always skewed in such circumstances! Definitely felt that Wayne Barnes should've called more stuff and given NZ a yellow for persistent infringements in their 22, but I suppose this would also mean Sexton wouldve been binned for the rather outrageous high tackle in the last 20 minutes.

Not a perfect match by either team but Ireland know what they need to work on and the reason New Zealand didn't turn up is that Ireland played a bruising and unrelenting 80 minutes. Replacing the front row at 46 mins showed just how battered the All Blacks were, and they had a heavier pack!

OldRio

Barnes did warn Ireland. Heard it myself.

Shefwedfan

troyzer wrote: »

We would have been penalised a phase or two later. You can't pick and go for two minutes and clear off your feet, penalty all day.

NZ get penalty, take quick penalty, Ireland are out of position and NZ run it fast....receipt for disaster.....

batistuta9

batistuta9 wrote: »

As someone who doesn't know anything about rugby why is this such a big deal?

Remember when the country shut down when ireland beat italy in a football friendly. Similar idea.

SparrowHawk

Thanks to everyone for pointing me to a recording of the match - will be sitting down shortly to enjoy it all!!

Shefwedfan

OldRio wrote: »

Barnes did warn Ireland. Heard it myself.

Fair play to Barnes, Nigel said nothing and then pinged them for no reason

Wildly Boaring

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Probably the most exciting single try match I've ever seen.

Would like to see the match again on RTE cos I watched it in the pub and one's perception is always skewed in such circumstances! Definitely felt that Wayne Barnes should've called more stuff and given NZ a yellow for persistent infringements in their 22, but I suppose this would also mean Sexton wouldve been binned for the rather outrageous high tackle in the last 20 minutes.

Not a perfect match by either team but Ireland know what they need to work on and the reason New Zealand didn't turn up is that Ireland played a bruising and unrelenting 80 minutes. Replacing the front row at 46 mins showed just how battered the All Blacks were, and they had a heavier pack!

If whitelock was carded in 1st half then kearney would have followed in 2nd.

I think barnes went out to let flow much as possible and allow breath. In 2nd half in particular ABs were off feet a lot at breakdown and he let flow.

Not sure would it have suited better if he was tougher particular when ABs did their standard cynical fouls in their 22.

Or we better off with flow as we hold possession and suffocate on defence.

I dunno. Either way I think we'd have won yesterday.

Wildly Boaring

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

One big thing I took from the first half was them kicking for goal and a drop goal (whether that was a personal thing for barrett that I can kick drop goals) but not very often do you see them desperate to take the points then we get a penalty and go for the corner now it didn't work out but how refreshing is the intent and inventivness that we now show with no fear

Kinda wondered about that decision. He did same last week.

Odd thing to do. He would get his peno anyway. Why not try a big hoist in the air a la Sexton? Kearney nearly got try from just that.

Were they practising a bit??
Devils advocate. He never kicked one before England. World cup is all that matters to those boys.

irishbucsfan

Barnes was absolutely excellent. Exactly the referee the game needed, let the breakdown play out far more than a lot of other northern hemisphere refs would normally, definitely best of both worlds for the two teams.

POM absolutely would have been done for that turnover he won by a few other high level refs. Allowing those little momentary lapses really helped the game and I think both sides would have been happy for that.

Buer

Shefwedfan wrote: »

A few people on another forum said Barnes warned Ireland about 1 out runners. I didn't hear but just wondering if correct? so that woudl suggest McGrath had to do something....
l....

Barnes clearly says "make sure you arrive up" x 2 to the Irish pod waiting for the carry just before the box kick. Any sniff of someone going off their feet and that was a penalty. Even in the few phases before that, he could have been extremely pedantic and penalised Jack McGrath for falling over the wrong side; I reckon that was the catalyst for the warning.

Kicking was the right call in those circumstances. Send them backwards, have a defensive line in place and back yourselves to hold them out from 70m with 90 seconds left.

If we had conceded a penalty, people would be sticking the boot in for ignoring the warning and continuing the pick and go.

AbusesToilets

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Full RTE coverage of the match.

Has anyone come across a replay of the match with NZ commentary? Haven't seen one pop up anywhere yet.

Dubinusa

It's up on YouTube. What a match. Yes, our fitness is right up there. They were as spent as we were at the end.
Great performances all around. Our kicking to the corner.... take the 3 points!
Vdf is not bad. Ringrose settles the backline and zSexton upped his game.
POM played the best of a brilliant pack imo and as a Ruddock fan, I can have no qualms about who gets the 6 jersey.
Toner changes everything, he's just grown into a role that's simply brilliant. Henderson was fantastic when he came on too. I rate Henderson as our best lock and I think Toner and Ryan are our best partnership.
Marmion was brilliant as was Luke.
Aki and Ringrose were solid and unbreakable.
I thought Healy was unbelievable also and he's back to his best now.
All in all happy days.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Barnes was absolutely excellent. Exactly the referee the game needed, let the breakdown play out far more than a lot of other northern hemisphere refs would normally, definitely best of both worlds for the two teams.

POM absolutely would have been done for that turnover he won by a few other high level refs. Allowing those little momentary lapses really helped the game and I think both sides would have been happy for that.

His communication is excellent. But there were some strange calls. Whitelock should have been binned, that was about as cynical as it gets. And Kearney too, I'd have thought that was more than just a pen these days.

AbusesToilets

Linda Spoiled Scholarship wrote: »

His communication is excellent. But there were some strange calls. Whitelock should have been binned, that was about as cynical as it gets. And Kearney too, I'd have thought that was more than just a pen these days.

I thought he let the breakdown be a bit of a free for all tbh. Worked in our favor, one of POM's steals was a stone cold penalty all day long, but still frustrating to see.

Mookie Blaylock

Buer wrote: »

Barnes clearly says "make sure you arrive up" x 2 to the Irish pod waiting for the carry just before the box kick. Any sniff of someone going off their feet and that was a penalty. Even in the few phases before that, he could have been extremely pedantic and penalised Jack McGrath for falling over the wrong side; I reckon that was the catalyst for the warning.

Kicking was the right call in those circumstances. Send them backwards, have a defensive line in place and back yourselves to hold them out from 70m with 90 seconds left.

If we had conceded a penalty, people would be sticking the boot in for ignoring the warning and continuing the pick and go.

Cant agree, kicking was probably the wrong call... firstly it was a poorly enough executed kick, secondly...if Barnes was warning them.. just throw a single pass to Stander in the middle, and build again with the pick and go for 60 seconds...
Kicking the ball away..in the last minute... with the Irish defence fairly out on their feet..poor call imo

OldRio

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

Cant agree, kicking was probably the wrong call... firstly it was a poorly enough executed kick, secondly...if Barnes was warning them.. just throw a single pass to Stander in the middle, and build again with the pick and go for 60 seconds...
Kicking the ball away..in the last minute... with the Irish defence fairly out on their feet..poor call imo

Nah, listen to the ref and let the professionals win the match. Just like they did.

irishbucsfan

It was absolutely not the wrong call. You don't try to go through phases in your own half with no momentum or pace when the ref is watching you that closely. We would have conceded a penalty.

That was possible 10 years ago, not any more. Not with modern breakdown interpretations or the laws allowing lineouts after the clock goes. Spot on decision.

Execution was fine and chase was spot on, we had our full defensive line there from phase 1 which is the entire aim. Could have pushed it 5-10 meters further but that is of very little consequence.

Buer

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

Cant agree, kicking was probably the wrong call... firstly it was a poorly enough executed kick, secondly...if Barnes was warning them.. just throw a single pass to Stander in the middle, and build again with the pick and go for 60 seconds...
Kicking the ball away..in the last minute... with the Irish defence fairly out on their feet..poor call imo

It wasn't poorly executed. It would ideally have been 5m further but that's the only complaint. Lots of hang time, lands between the 5m line and touch and had an organised chase. That's precisely what you want from your box kicks.

What difference would that pass make? If he was out in midfield, we would have had an isolated carrier with the likes of Carbery trying to clear out.

As it happens, Stander was the last carry before the box kick anyway so it would have bee 2-3 phases before he would have been an option again.

errlloyd

Weird one from Barnes was not checking whether Ioane carried the ball back after Stockdale had kicked and been ankle tapped. I'm absolutely certain it was carried back. Guess I like the ref backing himself. But that's a 45m swing territory wise.

Mookie Blaylock

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

Cant agree, kicking was probably the wrong call... firstly it was a poorly enough executed kick

Are you just making stuff up to try prove your point or what? It was an excellent box kick, landed right by the touchline and had lots of time in the air so Irish players could get there when the ball came down.

AbusesToilets

Madeleine Broad Movement wrote: »

Are you just making stuff up to try prove your point or what? It was an excellent box kick, landed right by the touchline and had lots of time in the air so Irish players could get there when the ball came down.

Also, I think that it showed faith in the team's ability to close out the game defensively. Best talked about the lessons learned after 2013, have to believe building that confidence in their skillset was one of them.

Burkie1203

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

Cant agree, kicking was probably the wrong call... firstly it was a poorly enough executed kick, secondly...if Barnes was warning them.. just throw a single pass to Stander in the middle, and build again with the pick and go for 60 seconds...
Kicking the ball away..in the last minute... with the Irish defence fairly out on their feet..poor call imo

Previous ruck we were lucky not to get pinged. Barnes gave us a warning of what not to do. See Munster v Glasgow.

A pen there gives NZ an easy 30-40m gain and a chance to rescue the game off a set piece.

When the red tells you he is looking for a reason to ping you it is fairly dumb to run the risk

Mookie Blaylock

Madeleine Broad Movement wrote: »

Are you just making stuff up to try prove your point or what? It was an excellent box kick, landed right by the touchline and had lots of time in the air so Irish players could get there when the ball came down.

No, but you seem to be.
It was a poorly executed kick...it should have been much deeper, no doubt about that and anyone saying otherwise is just kidding themselves

Mookie Blaylock

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

No, but you seem to be.
It was a poorly executed kick...it should have been much deeper, no doubt about that and anyone saying otherwise is just kidding themselves

Clueless nonsense.

Mookie Blaylock

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It was absolutely not the wrong call. You don't try to go through phases in your own half with no momentum or pace when the ref is watching you that closely. We would have conceded a penalty.

That was possible 10 years ago, not any more. Not with modern breakdown interpretations or the laws allowing lineouts after the clock goes. Spot on decision.

Execution was fine and chase was spot on, we had our full defensive line there from phase 1 which is the entire aim. Could have pushed it 5-10 meters further but that is of very little consequence.

That 10m plus! is where the ball should have gone if he wanted to kick...guess I'm just spolied with Murray at times being probably the best in the world at this art

Mookie Blaylock

Madeleine Broad Movement wrote: »

Clueless nonsense.

Didn't say you were clueless, but if you insist

Burkie1203

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

No, but you seem to be.
It was a poorly executed kick...it should have been much deeper, no doubt about that and anyone saying otherwise is just kidding themselves

Our box kicks all night were quite short. Think it was part of the plan the squeeze space for a counter attack.

We didn't kick to their back 3 much either IIRC

irishbucsfan

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

That 10m plus! is where the ball should have gone if he wanted to kick...guess I'm just spolied with Murray at times being probably the best in the world at this art

Right, yeah "10m plus"(!) is the difference between it being the right decision and wrong decision...

Mookie Blaylock

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Our box kicks all night were quite short. Think it was part of the plan the squeeze space for a counter attack.

We didn't kick to their back 3 much either IIRC

And to think I was accused of making stuff up to support my argument

Mookie Blaylock

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Right, yeah "10m plus"(!) is the difference between it being the right decision and wrong decision...

To kick it away at that point was incorrect....it could have been the rock upon which we perished...

Look, will let it there...if a kick is the only thing that I can find fault with (rightly or wrongly) in that game...I'd say we're in very rude health.

Hands Like Flippers

Fantastic evening.

Warriors from 1 to 23.

From where I was I'm not sure how folks can say anyone was not brilliant. Eg Best coming in for the usual criticism. I think if folk saw his GPS stats they might think again. He was in every 2nd or 3rd ruck. Outrageous work rate. Fellas here think they know better than Joe...

Mookie Blaylock

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Fantastic evening.

Warriors from 1 to 23.

From where I was I'm not sure how folks can say anyone was not brilliant. Eg Best coming in for the usual criticism. I think if folk saw his GPS stats they might think again. He was in every 2nd or 3rd ruck. Outrageous work rate. Fellas here think they know better than Joe...

Best had a near perfect game, darts were spot on...he harried and pushed the AB's back at every opportunity and monstered them...he did have 2 nolook passes that went to ground, but other than that.... probably his best performance for the national side in the last 18 months?

wp_rathead

The Talking Bread wrote: »

it would be on RTE player

Also on the All 4 Player of wanna listen to Ryle Nugent and Jamie Heaslip

evolving tipperary

Any word on the extent of O'Mahony's injury?

evolving tipperary

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Any word on the extent of O'Mahony's injury?

He actually isn't injured, just came off with a bad dose of engorged testicles.

thomond2006

evolving tipperary wrote: »

Any word on the extent of O'Mahony's injury?

Deleted User wrote: »

He actually isn't injured, just came off with a bad dose of engorged testicles.

Pashunitis