John Waters gone mad

VCR repair man

John waters seems to spend his time now hanging out with extreme alt right types on YouTube

Yer Da sells Avon

Gone mad?

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/dreams-die-with-death-of-katy-1.990174

Birneybau

Gone?

super_furry

On a scale of one to crazy, John Waters fathered a child with Sinead O'Connor.

He's always been pushing the limit.

timthumbni

That is not the John Waters I thought you were talking about.

The one I know thought eating dog **** would play well with the audience...

Harry Palmr

Has the look of desert based cult founder.

Silentcorner

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Gone mad?

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/dreams-die-with-death-of-katy-1.990174

Can anyone give me the gist...I refuse to pay for IT content?

Waters has fallen from relevance, reduced nowadays to adopting the role of polemicist shouting from the margins. Every so often he'll rear up in a controversy of his own invention. An implosion à la Kevin Myers is at hand.

Yer Da sells Avon

Silentcorner wrote: »

Can anyone give me the gist...I refuse to pay for IT content?

A few snippets:

"She had a beauty that suggested itself as emanating from an infinity within. She seemed to believe anything was possible and her smile convinced you, for an instant, that she was right. I wanted her dreams to come true."


"I am crying, writing this. How can you cry for someone you've only once said hello to? Katy was the daughter of our dreams, in the sense that it was the dreams of her people that gave birth to what is tritely called her celebrity."


"Driven by angelic recall, they plod on clay feet into the mire of three-dimensional reality. They do not know, are not conscious, that their appetites are infinitely greater than the world's capacity to satisfy them."

Silentcorner

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

A few snippets:

"She had a beauty that suggested itself as emanating from an infinity within. She seemed to believe anything was possible and her smile convinced you, for an instant, that she was right. I wanted her dreams to come true."


"I am crying, writing this. How can you cry for someone you've only once said hello to? Katy was the daughter of our dreams, in the sense that it was the dreams of her people that gave birth to what is tritely called her celebrity."


"Driven by angelic recall, they plod on clay feet into the mire of three-dimensional reality. They do not know, are not conscious, that their appetites are infinitely greater than the world's capacity to satisfy them."

Jesus....

You gotta hand it to us Irish...when it comes to spoof we are hard to beat!!!

Scott Tenorman

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Gone mad?

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/dreams-die-with-death-of-katy-1.990174

Lol first time I’ve seen that, that is so far over the top you almost need a telescope to read it!

eagle eye

I seen the title and was sure somebody had dragged up an ancient thread. John Waters went nuts many, many years ago.

fcuk the irish times for giving a platform to this and sh1te like this across the spectrum

cml387

Deleted User wrote: »

fcuk the irish times for giving a platform to this and sh1te like this across the spectrum

It's a long time since JW wrote for the Irish Times. That was a piece about Katy French from 2007.

I don't know why he's suddenly popped up on the radar again, but I would seriously worry about the poor man.

RhubarbCrumble

Shagging Sinead O' Connor will cause problems alright.

Kevin Finnerty

cml387 wrote: »

It's a long time since JW wrote for the Irish Times. That was a piece about Katy French from 2007.

I don't know why he's suddenly popped up on the radar again, but I would seriously worry about the poor man.

I wouldn't worry, but he must have serious issues though.

RikkFlair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjt1FYIXi5E

Wheety

Silentcorner wrote: »

Can anyone give me the gist...I refuse to pay for IT content?

Try reading it in incognito mode in Chrome.

cml387

cml387 wrote: »

It's a long time since JW wrote for the Irish Times. That was a piece about Katy French from 2007.

I don't know why he's suddenly popped up on the radar again, but I would seriously worry about the poor man.

i mean ever

he and the iona crew

una et al on tbe other side

the paper of record is now just a rent-a-controversy rag

SafeSurfer

Irish journalists are an almost completely homogeneous group. White, middle clas, with nice white middle class opinions.

This media has collaborated with the political class in this country, withholding information from the general public which could have changed the results of elections.

They do not perform the role of a proper fourth estate by holding the political class to account.

Anyone who fails to conform to the narrative is ostracized and labeled mad, extreme or dangerous.

Waters spent years trying to highlight the cause of fathers rights. But because the cause didn’t fit the narrow liberal agenda of opposition to anything that could be considered patriarchal he was condemned by the very colleagues who championed other social injustices.

He is many things but I thing he is less hypocritical than a certain high profile environmental journalist who regularly condemns meat eaters and commuters while driving a 3 litre 15 mile per gallon petrol Mercedes.

Muahahaha

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

A few snippets:

"She had a beauty that suggested itself as emanating from an infinity within. She seemed to believe anything was possible and her smile convinced you, for an instant, that she was right. I wanted her dreams to come true."


"I am crying, writing this. How can you cry for someone you've only once said hello to? Katy was the daughter of our dreams, in the sense that it was the dreams of her people that gave birth to what is tritely called her celebrity."


"Driven by angelic recall, they plod on clay feet into the mire of three-dimensional reality. They do not know, are not conscious, that their appetites are infinitely greater than the world's capacity to satisfy them."

Jaysis reading that tripe you would never have realised that she died due to overdosing on model grade cocaine supplied by a criminal calling himself 'The Wolf'

Car99

SafeSurfer wrote: »

He is many things but I thing he is less hypocritical than a certain high profile environmental journalist who regularly condemns meat eaters and commuters while driving a 3 litre 15 mile per gallon petrol Mercedes.

Which journalist is that mat I ask?

Ipso

RikkFlair wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjt1FYIXi5E

He wasn’t very pro life when it came to the Iraq War.

Grayson

RikkFlair wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjt1FYIXi5E

The guy has issues. We really shouldn't be giving him air time. It's entertainment of the wrong type.

Zubeneschamali

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Irish journalists are an almost completely homogeneous group. White, middle clas, with nice white middle class opinions.

And at one time, John Waters was right there in the middle of it.


But then he went nuts.

Wanderer78

whos john waters? couldnt be arsed googling

SafeSurfer

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Irish journalists are an almost completely homogeneous group. White, middle clas, with nice white middle class opinions.

And at one time, John Waters was right there in the middle of it.


But then he went nuts.

Except he doesn’t have nice middle class opinions anymore so clearly he must be insane.

The orchestrated campaign against him by his former colleagues and other liberal commentators was driven by this former insider cracking the edifice of liberal media homogeneity.
An example is Patsy Mc Garry, a former neighbour and presumed friend seeking help from Waters on behalf of his nephew who was suicidal while simultaneously and anonymously making vile criticisms of Waters and how uncaring he was etc.

Waters has some very out ther views but so have many journalists whose sanity is never questioned.

Guy:Incognito

Wanderer78 wrote: »

whos john waters? couldnt be arsed googling

Plays up front for Burnley.

s7ryf3925pivug

Sinead O'Connor is unwell. John Waters is a tool. Different kettles of fish.

Also Sinead O'Connor used to be very attractive and not not unwell. John Waters was always a tool... Also - while I'm not always good at knowing what guys women find attractive - I feel disgust at the idea of him being near anyone - so that probably indicates he's not.

richiepurgas

When you say he's hanging out with the far right, is it this shower ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf41RtzE8jY

Highly entertaining.

mvl

... and another contemporary culture lesson for me on AH.

CrankyHaus

Waters was actually ahead of the curve, in a way. He was a bit of a forerunner of those alt-right types.

Back during the late 80s culture wars he copped that there was an audience of mainly rural traditionalists that the national media ignored. He built his success on pandering to that audience while sucking up to FF big beasts. In exchange he has a house in Dalkey and sits on a few public sector boards, including some sinecure at RTE. Having read his books and articles I'd say this success is punching above his weight.

Really he's anything but a rebel. However the Irish media is such an echo chamber it managed to make him one.

SafeSurfer

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Waters was actually ahead of the curve, in a way. He was a bit of a forerunner of those alt-right types.

Back during the late 80s culture wars he copped that there was an audience of mainly rural traditionalists that the national media ignored. He built his success on pandering to that audience while sucking up to FF big beasts. In exchange he has a house in Dalkey and sits on a few public sector boards, including some sinecure at RTE. Having read his books and articles I'd say this success is punching above his weight.

Really he's anything but a rebel. However the Irish media is such an echo chamber it managed to make him one.

The traditionalists in the 1980s were not merely a rural phenomenon and were certainly not ignored by the mainstream media. It was pretty much the complete opposite of the position today where the traditionalist/conservative view is rarely articulated by mainstream journalists who face a backlash for expressing any view questioning the rush to progressiveness.

The media darling Panti Bliss, who RTE gave a 90 minute self promotion vehicle to in the wake of the marriage referendum called Waters homophobic on RTE for expressing reservations about the marriage equality referendum.

Waters was pilloried and vilified by those who champion the importance of diversity but cannot countenance any diversity in opinion.

I disagree with much of what he says, I find him difficult to like but I don’t think he can be accused of pandering. He could have towed the line and expressed the majority opinion and be a media grandee a la Saint Vincent O Toole but he has been ostracized precisely because he didn’t pander.

evolving_doors

Wanderer78 wrote: »

whos john waters? couldnt be arsed googling

http://bfy.tw/Kv6b

AndrewJRenko

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The traditionalists in the 1980s were not merely a rural phenomenon and were certainly not ignored by the mainstream media. It was pretty much the complete opposite of the position today where the traditionalist/conservative view is rarely articulated by mainstream journalists who face a backlash for expressing any view questioning the rush to progressiveness.

The media darling Panti Bliss, who RTE gave a 90 minute self promotion vehicle to in the wake of the marriage referendum called Waters homophobic on RTE for expressing reservations about the marriage equality referendum.

Here's what Rory actually said about Waters, which doesn't quite fit your description;


From https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/cahirodoherty/columnist-john-waters-in-a-panti-twist-over-anti-gay-claims

Asked about changing attitudes toward the LGBT community in Ireland O'Neill has said: 'The only place that you see it’s okay to be really horrible and mean about gays is you know on the internet in the comments and you know people who make a living writing opinion pieces for newspapers. You know there’s a couple of them that really cheese...'
Host O'Connor asked O'Neill to name the people he was talking about and O'Neill replied:
'Oh well the obvious ones. You know Breda O’Brien (the Irish Times Columnist) today, oh my God you know banging on about gay priests and all. The usual suspects, the John Waters (Well known Irish journalist) and all of those people, the Iona Institute (a conservative Catholic lobby group) crowd. I mean I just…you know just… Fe-k off! Get the hell out of my life. Get out of my life…'

SafeSurfer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The traditionalists in the 1980s were not merely a rural phenomenon and were certainly not ignored by the mainstream media. It was pretty much the complete opposite of the position today where the traditionalist/conservative view is rarely articulated by mainstream journalists who face a backlash for expressing any view questioning the rush to progressiveness.

The media darling Panti Bliss, who RTE gave a 90 minute self promotion vehicle to in the wake of the marriage referendum called Waters homophobic on RTE for expressing reservations about the marriage equality referendum.

Here's what Rory actually said about Waters, which doesn't quite fit your description;


From https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/cahirodoherty/columnist-john-waters-in-a-panti-twist-over-anti-gay-claims

Asked about changing attitudes toward the LGBT community in Ireland O'Neill has said: 'The only place that you see it’s okay to be really horrible and mean about gays is you know on the internet in the comments and you know people who make a living writing opinion pieces for newspapers. You know there’s a couple of them that really cheese...'
Host O'Connor asked O'Neill to name the people he was talking about and O'Neill replied:
'Oh well the obvious ones. You know Breda O’Brien (the Irish Times Columnist) today, oh my God you know banging on about gay priests and all. The usual suspects, the John Waters (Well known Irish journalist) and all of those people, the Iona Institute (a conservative Catholic lobby group) crowd. I mean I just…you know just… Fe-k off! Get the hell out of my life. Get out of my life…'

You have linked to an Irish central article which is basically a Panti Bliss monologue.

Comments made by O Neill on the cutting edge branded a number of journalists including Waters homophobic and were cut from the subsequent broadcasts of the programme.

All journalists including Waters were awarded damages by RTE for defamation following legal action.

gordongekko

Bloody hell i thought it was Jonathan Walters when i saw the title. I wouldn't have bothered clicking on the link if i knew it was that flute you were talking about

AndrewJRenko

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You have linked to an Irish central article which is basically a Panti Bliss monologue.

Comments made by O Neill on the cutting edge branded a number of journalists including Waters homophobic and were cut from the subsequent broadcasts of the programme.

All journalists including Waters were awarded damages by RTE for defamation following legal action.

I've quoted an article which quotes what was said on the Brendan O'Connor show, word for word. It was the Saturday night show, not Cutting Edge.

That's exactly what Panti said, with a bit of prompting by Brendan.

Church on Tuesday

I blame his Eurovision sojourn.

Elemonator

Silentcorner wrote: »

Can anyone give me the gist...I refuse to pay for IT content?

Just wipe your browser history, should clear up that block no problem.

The Crowman

He got Sinead O Connor up the spout back in the day.

The Crowman

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Irish journalists are an almost completely homogeneous group. White, middle clas, with nice white middle class opinions.

This media has collaborated with the political class in this country, withholding information from the general public which could have changed the results of elections.

They do not perform the role of a proper fourth estate by holding the political class to account.

Anyone who fails to conform to the narrative is ostracized and labeled mad, extreme or dangerous.

Waters spent years trying to highlight the cause of fathers rights. But because the cause didn’t fit the narrow liberal agenda of opposition to anything that could be considered patriarchal he was condemned by the very colleagues who championed other social injustices.

He is many things but I thing he is less hypocritical than a certain high profile environmental journalist who regularly condemns meat eaters and commuters while driving a 3 litre 15 mile per gallon petrol Mercedes.

Capt'n Midnight

He promised to leave the country if Yes won.

Despite all his protests about marriage laws he wasn't married to Sinea, or even in a long term relationship.

He wasn't actively loading when parked illegally and rather than accept a fine went to court.

I'm not aware of any redeeming characteristics, though some consider him the enemy of their enemy.

AndrewJRenko

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Irish journalists are an almost completely homogeneous group. White, middle clas, with nice white middle class opinions.

This media has collaborated with the political class in this country, withholding information from the general public which could have changed the results of elections.

They do not perform the role of a proper fourth estate by holding the political class to account.

Anyone who fails to conform to the narrative is ostracized and labeled mad, extreme or dangerous.

Waters spent years trying to highlight the cause of fathers rights. But because the cause didn’t fit the narrow liberal agenda of opposition to anything that could be considered patriarchal he was condemned by the very colleagues who championed other social injustices.

The irony of complaining about the white, middle-class media ostracising Waters may have gone over your head. In case you didn't notice, he is just that - white- middle-class.


He had years of media coverage for his various whinges about fathers rights and rural Ireland and more, including a regular column in Ireland's newspaper of record for a couple of decades. The fact that Ireland has matured past his narrow and bigoted views is not some form of censorship. It's just that most people don't want to listen to his crap anymore.

P_1

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Irish journalists are an almost completely homogeneous group. White, middle clas, with nice white middle class opinions.

This media has collaborated with the political class in this country, withholding information from the general public which could have changed the results of elections.

They do not perform the role of a proper fourth estate by holding the political class to account.

Anyone who fails to conform to the narrative is ostracized and labeled mad, extreme or dangerous.

Waters spent years trying to highlight the cause of fathers rights. But because the cause didn’t fit the narrow liberal agenda of opposition to anything that could be considered patriarchal he was condemned by the very colleagues who championed other social injustices.

He is many things but I thing he is less hypocritical than a certain high profile environmental journalist who regularly condemns meat eaters and commuters while driving a 3 litre 15 mile per gallon petrol Mercedes.

Indeed. Sure look at how people were pushed to the margins of the repeal the 8th campaign of they weren't white, middle class and cishet

SafeSurfer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Except he doesn’t have nice middle class opinions anymore so clearly he must be insane.

The orchestrated campaign against him by his former colleagues and other liberal commentators was driven by this former insider cracking the edifice of liberal media homogeneity.
An example is Patsy Mc Garry, a former neighbour and presumed friend seeking help from Waters on behalf of his nephew who was suicidal while simultaneously and anonymously making vile criticisms of Waters and how uncaring he was etc.

Waters has some very out ther views but so have many journalists whose sanity is never questioned.

This. Well said. And refreshing given the attacks on Waters here. Patsy McGarry was exposed there as a backstabbing, sly and classless individual. Had McGarry been more technologically literate his lie wouldn't have been exposed. McGarry is obviously well in with The Irish Times if they haven't taken any disciplinary action against him on ethical grounds. That incident really deserves more publicity.

As for the rest of you, it shouldn't be too difficult to find a harder target than John Waters. Aside from Waters famous Hot Press interview with Haughey in the early 1980s, he has been on the margins of medialand for a long time. I vividly recall him as an almost isolated voice - Declan Kiberd & Vincent Browne being the other two - in the early 1990s questioning Tony O'Reilly's control of the Irish media. That took real courage. He also wrote some memorably thoughtful articles which introduced me to the work on colonialism of Franz Fanon at a time when for explicitly political reasons the entire Dublin media/Independent Newspapers would never mention Irish history in a colonial context.

Yes, the man has definitely moved to the right in the past 17 years (since 9/11) and has said things and made public scenes that would be better not said or done. But none of us know the twists and turns of life that can befall us in the future so perhaps a bit of kindness in treating this man now might spread and if anything happens us or a loved one in the future they will not be sneered at or derided for it. As so often in After Hours, silence has a dignity.

Gimme A Pound

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Irish journalists are an almost completely homogeneous group. White, middle clas, with nice white middle class opinions.

This media has collaborated with the political class in this country, withholding information from the general public which could have changed the results of elections.

They do not perform the role of a proper fourth estate by holding the political class to account.

Anyone who fails to conform to the narrative is ostracized and labeled mad, extreme or dangerous.

Waters spent years trying to highlight the cause of fathers rights. But because the cause didn’t fit the narrow liberal agenda of opposition to anything that could be considered patriarchal he was condemned by the very colleagues who championed other social injustices.

He is many things but I thing he is less hypocritical than a certain high profile environmental journalist who regularly condemns meat eaters and commuters while driving a 3 litre 15 mile per gallon petrol Mercedes.

I admire his battle for fathers' rights but his controversy for the sake of it schtick damages his credibility. E.g. saying depression is "bullsh1t".

As said also, he is middle-class too, so I don't know what that's about. I know the crowd you refer to though, but being mostly white is something they're mortified over.

I see why people take issue with the Iona Institute too - it's entitled to its views but the manner it puts those views across can be odious.

SafeSurfer

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Irish journalists are an almost completely homogeneous group. White, middle clas, with nice white middle class opinions.

This media has collaborated with the political class in this country, withholding information from the general public which could have changed the results of elections.

They do not perform the role of a proper fourth estate by holding the political class to account.

Anyone who fails to conform to the narrative is ostracized and labeled mad, extreme or dangerous.

Waters spent years trying to highlight the cause of fathers rights. But because the cause didn’t fit the narrow liberal agenda of opposition to anything that could be considered patriarchal he was condemned by the very colleagues who championed other social injustices.

The irony of complaining about the white, middle-class media ostracising Waters may have gone over your head. In case you didn't notice, he is just that - white- middle-class.


He had years of media coverage for his various whinges about fathers rights and rural Ireland and more, including a regular column in Ireland's newspaper of record for a couple of decades. The fact that Ireland has matured past his narrow and bigoted views is not some form of censorship. It's just that most people don't want to listen to his crap anymore.

The point I am making is that these great institutions promoting and celebrating diversity are some of the least diverse working environments In the country. It wasn’t enough that Waters was white and middle class, he committed the fatal sin of not conforming to the liberal group think as well.

There is an audience for opinions other than those of the urban, liberal, middle class elite in this country. Even if you remove one of those characteristics and replace it with another.

The Irish Times has lost over 40% of its readership in just 7 years.

Maybe more people don’t want to read the pontificating charlatans of the mould of Fintan O’ Toole spouting their social fashionista opinions.

spacetweek

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The Irish Times has lost over 40% of its readership in just 7 years.

Maybe more people don’t want to read the pontificating charlatans of the mould of Fintan O’ Toole spouting their social fashionista opinions.

It's more likely that that's just because of the general erosion of newspaper readership worldwide due to the internet.

The IT still remains the paper of record and is the only one left with deep dive journalism.

SafeSurfer

spacetweek wrote: »

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The Irish Times has lost over 40% of its readership in just 7 years.

Maybe more people don’t want to read the pontificating charlatans of the mould of Fintan O’ Toole spouting their social fashionista opinions.

It's more likely that that's just because of the general erosion of newspaper readership worldwide due to the internet.

The IT still remains the paper of record and is the only one left with deep dive journalism.

If by deep dive journalism you mean one has to hold one’s nose then I would have to agree.
One must remember that the Irish Times has long been a bastion of exclusion, only permitting its first catholic editor in 1986.

s7ryf3925pivug

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The point I am making is that these great institutions promoting and celebrating diversity are some of the least diverse working environments In the country. It wasn’t enough that Waters was white and middle class, he committed the fatal sin of not conforming to the liberal group think as well.

There is an audience for opinions other than those of the urban, liberal, middle class elite in this country. Even if you remove one of those characteristics and replace it with another.

The Irish Times has lost over 40% of its readership in just 7 years.

Maybe more people don’t want to read the pontificating charlatans of the mould of Fintan O’ Toole spouting their social fashionista opinions.

Fintan O'Toole has a new book on the mentality of Brexit voters. I read an extract of it in The Guardian. Compellung stuff, and I think he nailed it. They're all deranged really. Not his words but that's what it amounts to... I'm a bit fascinated by the new nationalist attitudes because I feel like I don't get them.