European Parliament Elections 2019

Fan of Netflix

L1011 wrote: »

SFs "working class base" returned a tiny handful of TDs and one MEP on a fluke day - lost the next time out. It's not something that returning to will benefit them

And it's clearly being eaten by Aontu, eirigi and former SF independents anyway

An anti immigration SF would be fighting for the same 0% as Gemtrails and Kelly.

Sinn Fein went for the middle class liberal vote with Mary Lou and many others like O'Broin and various councillors leading the party. They've been wiped out doing so. Sinn Fein will never get the middle class liberal vote, just won't happen.

Maybe they shouldn't be anti immigration, but maybe they shouldn't be so pro immigration either, their voters aren't. Other stuff like an obsession with Palestine over local issues. Having people out in Venezuela with Maduro. The strict whip on abortion cost them massively losing Toibin but especially losing members and canvassers. It was basically a two fingers from Mary Lou telling them to leave the party. Look at Fianna Fail, they had a free vote and lost very few people even though they were most pro life. SF are being wiped out especially outside Dublin. It's all went wrong.

Fan of Netflix

LuasSimon wrote: »

Sinn Fein are losing the old school traditional nationalist / republican vote ... the 2 to 4 % that voted for them in their dark days .
Many of these voters came from working class , factory worker or small farmers in rural Ireland .
People who agreed with a party seeking a United ireland ����
Now they seek a party obsessed with PC matters like abortion and making excuses for all the traveller crime .
Many of the old school supporters are middle of the road Catholics who don’t want this carry on rammed down their throats by new trendy Sinn Fein and voted Aonta in support of Peader Tobin and others .
In rural Ireland Sinn Fein and their constant defense of travellers saw them lose huge numbers of votes .

With agree with that. The traveller thing costs them outside Dublin. Look at the presidential vote a muppet like Casey got by stumbling onto the issue. I voted for Aontu and Ming in the Euros. Gave Sinn Fein a preference to stop others. It was hard to even do that.

is_that_so

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Sinn Fein went for the middle class liberal vote with Mary Lou and many others like O'Broin and various councillors leading the party. They've been wiped out doing so. Sinn Fein will never get the middle class liberal vote, just won't happen.

Maybe they shouldn't be anti immigration, but maybe they shouldn't be so pro immigration either, their voters aren't. Other stuff like an obsession with Palestine over local issues. Having people out in Venezuela with Maduro. The strict whip on abortion cost them massively losing Toibin but especially losing members and canvassers. It was basically a two fingers from Mary Lou telling them to leave the party. Look at Fianna Fail, they had a free vote and lost very few people even though they were most pro life. SF are being wiped out especially outside Dublin. It's all went wrong.

The problem is if they can't get some of that they will end up scrapping with the rest of the ever incoherent left for small beer and hoping the country remains in perpetual recession. Anti-everything was a great campaign even up to 2016, but not anymore. I thought they might lose about 3 seats in a GE but if this is the trend for them they could lose a good number more.

is_that_so

LuasSimon wrote: »

Sinn Fein are losing the old school traditional nationalist / republican vote ... the 2 to 4 % that voted for them in their dark days .
Many of these voters came from working class , factory worker or small farmers in rural Ireland .
People who agreed with a party seeking a United ireland ����
Now they seek a party obsessed with PC matters like abortion and making excuses for all the traveller crime .
Many of the old school supporters are middle of the road Catholics who don’t want this carry on rammed down their throats by new trendy Sinn Fein and voted Aonta in support of Peader Tobin and others .
In rural Ireland Sinn Fein and their constant defense of travellers saw them lose huge numbers of votes .

Apart from particular parts of the country they were never that big in rural Ireland. It's still a duopoly in many rural constituencies.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Some off topic and below standard posts have been deleted and sanctions issued.

Hurrache

RoboKlopp wrote: »

They've gone backwards under Mary Lou. She's a weak leader and probably needs replacing.

As I said, I don't think it's the leader. They're schizophrenic across the spectrum with members not even sharing the same values.

They've been like this since Adams.

Fan of Netflix

is_that_so wrote: »

The problem is if they can't get some of that they will end up scrapping with the rest of the ever incoherent left for small beer and hoping the country remains in perpetual recession. Anti-everything was a great campaign even up to 2016, but not anymore. I thought they might lose about 3 seats in a GE but if this is the trend for them they could lose a good number more.

I think the liberal vote for SF are looking for will always vote Labour, Greens or even Soc Dems now. That liberal field is very crowded. Even Fine Gael are very socially liberal these days. That vote usually swaps around those parties. Sinn Fein don't get a look in.

Fan of Netflix

Sinn Fein are chasing the liberal vote yet they look like they willl get 0 councillors on Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown council. Zero councillors out of 40. Awful result, incredible really.

They are losing councillors in so many areas hard to know where they go from here.

LuasSimon

is_that_so wrote: »

Apart from particular parts of the country they were never that big in rural Ireland. It's still a duopoly in many rural constituencies.

Many of the rural constituencies that elected Sinn Fein last time in the past 5 years have seen Sinn Fein constantly backing the traveller agenda regardless of what crimes they commit . In rural Ireland this is political suicide , this along with alienating anyone with a catholic view around abortion etc has seen many of their old school vote give up on Sinn Fein and vote aontu , independent and green and even Fianna Fáil .

Aontus few hundred votes in each constituency was the difference between a Sinn Fein seat or no Sinn Fein seat . It seems Mary Lou and others in head office don’t want the middle of the road republican - Catholic vote in rural Ireland .

Fan of Netflix

is_that_so wrote: »

Apart from particular parts of the country they were never that big in rural Ireland. It's still a duopoly in many rural constituencies.

They were they only opposition to FF/FG in most areas. Most other parties haven't even stood candidates in recent years. Now rural Ireland is firmly FF/FG country once again......:(

is_that_so

LuasSimon wrote: »

Many of the rural constituencies that elected Sinn Fein last time in the past 5 years have seen Sinn Fein constantly backing the traveller agenda regardless of what crimes they commit . In rural Ireland this is political suicide , this along with alienating anyone with a catholic view around abortion etc has seen many of their old school vote give up on Sinn Fein and vote aontu , independent and green and even Fianna Fáil .

Aontus few hundred votes in each constituency was the difference between a Sinn Fein seat or no Sinn Fein seat . It seems Mary Lou and others in head office don’t want the middle of the road republican - Catholic vote in rural Ireland .

I think SF have an identity problem to address but Aontu are not going to cause too much trouble in the long term. They are and will remain a small fringe group.

Fan of Netflix

is_that_so wrote: »

I think SF have an identity problem to address but Aontu are not going to cause too much trouble in the long term. They are and will remain a small fringe group.

I think Aontu will be disappointed with their results. Problem for SF is they took hundreds of seasoned members and 10 to 20k votes with them.

is_that_so

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

I think the liberal vote for SF are looking for will always vote Labour, Greens or even Soc Dems now. That liberal field is very crowded. Even Fine Gael are very socially liberal these days. That vote usually swaps around those parties. Sinn Fein don't get a look in.

It doesn't all have to be liberal votes. They can also try to attract part of that FF republican vote, but the risk there is FF will go after them. What they definitely need is better quality candidates, though.

RandomName2

Hurrache wrote: »

As I said, I don't think it's the leader. They're schizophrenic across the spectrum with members not even sharing the same values.

They've been like this since Adams.

They are a traditional Irish nationalist hard right party. All about cultural nationalism, Catholicism, traditional values, xenophobia, autarky, etc.

They are also a socialist party that are anti-capitalist, pro-liberalization, anti-racist, with a bit of general Marxism thrown in for good measure.

These are largely contradictory stances, even though they can occasionally share common ground (e.g. anti-imperialist). Ultimately one of those stances of has to be window dressing. Sinn Fein has generally eschewed having to make a choice, if only by virtue of circumstance. You can see their discomfort in something like the abortion referendum where the leadership finally has to make a decision on the matter (they chose to go with the prevailing mood).

stefanovich

RandomName2 wrote: »

They are a traditional Irish nationalist hard right party. All about cultural nationalism, Catholicism, traditional values, xenophobia, autarky, etc.

They are also a socialist party that are anti-capitalist, pro-liberalization, anti-racist, with a bit of general Marxism thrown in for good measure.

These are largely contradictory stances, even though they can occasionally share common ground (e.g. anti-imperialist). Ultimately one of those stances of has to be window dressing. Sinn Fein has eschewed having to make a choice, if only by virtue of circumstance. You can see their discomfort in something like the abortion referendum where the leadership finally has to make a decision on the matter (they chose to go with the prevailing mood).

I've always thought of Sinn Fein / IRA as socialist first and republican second. Using their republicanism / nationalism as a vehicle for pushing a socialist agenda.

Bobeagleburger

Sinn Fein going the way of Labour. They offer little to young and swing voters.

Christy42

I think it is candidates. And generally people are happy to take other left wing candidates without the same history.

It would take some time to switch to the right wing vote without seeming obvious that they have changed their mind for the hell of it instead of believing it. Plus they don't want to have to start agreeing with the DUP in the north (I suspect that is a large reason they went left in the first place).

Finally the right is less crowded but it is also a lot less votes. I mean we have renua and the likes of Casey out there now and picking up nothing.

Plus going right may be less crowded. But the reason

badtoro

What time does counting begin in MNW?

maynooth_rules

Sinn féin offer nothing, nothing to the working tax payers of the country. People have woken up to the constant negativity and anti everything that Sinn Féin represent. They and Mary Lou shot themselves in the foot when they tried to potray Margaret Cash as some sort of hero. I am also convinced that they are actually the biggest obstacle to a United Ireland.

eagle eye

maynooth_rules wrote:

Sinn féin offer nothing, nothing to the working tax payers of the country. People have woken up to the constant negativity and anti everything that Sinn Féin represent. They and Mary Lou shot themselves in the foot when they tried to potray Margaret Cash as some sort of hero. I am also convinced that they are actually the biggest obstacle to a United Ireland.

Which party offers something to the working tax payers?
Varadkar wants to go and get an ISIS member out of jail and bring her back here to live freely. I'd rather ten Margaret Cash to one free ISIS person.
They are for a United Ireland and always have been.
I'm not a supporter or fan in any way of SF.
I'm against a United Ireland.
I'm not supporting Margaret Cash in any way, she should get locked up for a long time imo.

Hurrache

eagle eye wrote: »

Which party offers something to the working tax payers?
Varadkar wants to go and get an ISIS member out of jail and bring her back here to live freely. I'd rather ten Margaret Cash to one free ISIS person.

And yet you'd want terrorists that come to Ireland thrown out and sent back to their home country. You can't have it both ways.

LuckyLloyd

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Sinn f offer nothing, nothing to the working tax payers of the country. People have woken up to the constant negativity and anti everything that Sinn F represent. They and Mary Lou shot themselves in the foot when they tried to potray Margaret Cash as some sort of hero. I am also convinced that they are actually the biggest obstacle to a United Ireland.

They've still done better than 2009 in the local elections. I would suggest you pause before writing their political epitaph.

is_that_so

badtoro wrote: »

What time does counting begin in MNW?

It has started, well sorting, but no first count result realistically expected until tomorrow. Could run for days at this rate! 200 people counting!

is_that_so

Interesting point raised on tallies in the Euros, the sheer size and quantity of sheets makes it pretty challenging to do and the same health warning as the exit poll applies for now.

Harry Palmr

Saoirse McHugh just on Newstalk already boxing off options and painting herself into a corner of irrelevancy .

gizmo555

maynooth_rules wrote: »

People have woken up to the constant negativity and anti everything that Sinn F represent.

This was epitomised by the repulsive slogans on every single local and European election SF poster: "Fighting for you" or "Fighting for Ireland". That's what they seem to want seen as their core quality and characteristic - constant aggressiveness and confrontation with everybody.

Itssoeasy

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Saoirse McHugh just on Newstalk already boxing off options and painting herself into a corner of irrelevancy .

I heard her comments about quitting the Green Party if they were in government with the two big parties. It showed her political niavity really and given she's on camera saying she went around to lots of party about environmental issues she clearly was willing to join whatever party would take her.

Jamie2k9

badtoro wrote: »

What time does counting begin in MNW?

Count center think it could be Wed or Thur before a final result for MNW

Zubeneschamali

gizmo555 wrote: »

This was epitomised by the repulsive slogans on every single local and European election SF poster: "Fighting for you" or "Fighting for Ireland".

Particularly coming so soon after the killing of Lyra McKee by dissident Republicans in Derry.

robman60

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I heard her comments about quitting the Green Party if they were in government with the two big parties. It showed her political niavity really and given she's on camera saying she went around to lots of party about environmental issues she clearly was willing to join whatever party would take her.

Very naive. I would have thought the best chance to actually bring about green policies (that's what politics is about, right?) Would be to acknowledge that a good place for the greens would be as a mitigating force in coalition with FF or FG

Utopian vision of a green majority may sound nice to her, but Cuffe is far more realistic. I heard him say if the other parties adopt green policies that would be as got as political office for him which I thought was a selfless thing to say.