European Parliament Elections 2019

Tell me how

Seamai wrote: »

Heard both the chief counting officer in Cork and Paschal "Drama Queen" Sheehy making a big song and dance about the problems presented by the " 2 Foot plus long ballot paper" and it might be mid week before we have full results for Ireland South, what a bloody joke in this day and age, I know people have issues with e voting but there's also resistance out there from those who get a hard on at the prospect of a count stretched over several days.

I'd sooner a count lasting several days with transparency and traceability than a result within an hour and Steve Bannon/Cambridge Analytica smirking in the background.

Zubeneschamali

Seamai wrote: »

Heard both the chief counting officer in Cork and Paschal "Drama Queen" Sheehy making a big song and dance about the problems presented by the " 2 Foot plus long ballot paper"

7 tonnes of ballots, apparently.

is_that_so

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

7 tonnes of ballots, apparently.

13.5 tonnes in MNW! :eek:

An Ciarraioch

Ming has a good tally survey on his Twitter a/c, looking like FG x 2, himself and Carthy on his figures:

http://twitter.com/lukeming/status/1132606886904250368


http://twitter.com/lukeming/status/1132632862052769792

http://twitter.com/lukeming/status/1132640445551583232

An Ciarraioch

I don't think UK Labour are expecting many seats!

http://twitter.com/TheBrightonChap/status/1132646854565486592

is_that_so

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Ming has a good tally survey on his Twitter a/c, looking like FG x 2, himself and Carthy on his figures:

http://twitter.com/lukeming/status/1132606886904250368


http://twitter.com/lukeming/status/1132632862052769792

http://twitter.com/lukeming/status/1132640445551583232

Interesting but still only a tiny snapshot.

murphaph

30 minute wait to vote in my polling station just outside Berlin. Hopefully a sign of high turnout as this would not be usual.

An Ciarraioch

murphaph wrote: »

30 minute wait to vote in my polling station just outside Berlin. Hopefully a sign of high turnout as this would not be usual.

http://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1132649053307711488

Unmissable today in terms of coverage of turnout across the bloc.

markodaly

Tell me how wrote: »

I'd sooner a count lasting several days with transparency and traceability than a result within an hour and Steve Bannon/Cambridge Analytica smirking in the background.

To be honest, this is just populist nonsense akin to climate denial.

Most other OECD countries use some sort of e-voting and us Paddies are a sucker for thinking that we are somehow 'different'.

Our voting method has not changed at all in decades and should be updated and reformed.

Seth Brundle

markodaly wrote: »

To be honest, this is just populist nonsense akin to climate denial.

Most other OECD countries use some sort of e-voting and us Paddies are a sucker for thinking that we are somehow 'different'.

Our voting method has not changed at all in decades and should be updated and reformed.

So you would prefer a system that wasn't transparent or that could be digitally manipulated quite easily

markodaly

For the people who get a hard-on for our old fashioned voting system, we should reform it so that we can include early voting and online/postal voting a week out from the election.

The idea we have to wait a week for a result is a pathetic tbh.

gizmo555

markodaly wrote: »

Most other OECD countries use some sort of e-voting and us Paddies are a sucker for thinking that we are somehow 'different'.

Ireland's Commission on Electronic Voting found it could not conclude the Dutch evoting system planned to be used here was secure & reliable.

The same system was in operation in Holland, but had to be taken out of service, because serious confidentiality and security flaws were identified. They then returned to paper ballots. We dodged a bullet.

kippy

markodaly wrote: »

To be honest, this is just populist nonsense akin to climate denial.

Most other OECD countries use some sort of e-voting and us Paddies are a sucker for thinking that we are somehow 'different'.

Our voting method has not changed at all in decades and should be updated and reformed.

Think of all the "political commentators/analysts" and "media" who would be out of a job with e-voting. This is the real issue me thinks.

I don't really mind either way - counts that go on for days, who really cares - the result is the result no matter when it is finalised.

LuckyLloyd

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Ming has a good tally survey on his Twitter a/c, looking like FG x 2, himself and Carthy on his figures:

http://twitter.com/lukeming/status/1132606886904250368


http://twitter.com/lukeming/status/1132632862052769792

http://twitter.com/lukeming/status/1132640445551583232

If this is correct, McHugh is not transfer friendly at all and I’d wonder about her exit poll accuracy to begin with.

markodaly

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So you would prefer a system that wasn't transparent or that could be digitally manipulated quite easily

Do you have actual proof that e-voting was manipulated like what was mentioned in any OECD countries?
The likes of the Dutch, Canada, Australia, Finland, the UK, and the US to name a few use it all the time.

I guess we should not use email or bank online either.

Seth Brundle

markodaly wrote: »

Do you have actual proof that e-voting was manipulated like what was mentioned in any OECD countries?
The likes of the Dutch, Canada, Australia, Finland, the UK, and the US to name a few use it all the time.

That system lacked transparency. It also had the potential for digital manipulation (I didn't say it had been manipulated)

markodaly wrote: »

I guess we should not use email or bank online either.

No technology is perfect. If someone is determined to access your online bank account, they will.

AndrewJRenko

Boar Hunter wrote: »

The Direct Democracy candidate vote was because I fully believe in this form of democracy. They are a sad reflection of a party in Ireland and realise that this No 2 is as good as a wasted vote. As a person who will in the next few weeks become a Swiss citizen I see the power of the local decentralization power and the actual power invested in an informed electorate.

The theory of Direct Democracy is interesting, but is it really, really better to leave decisions to the electorate? Is the electorate ever going to make necessary but hard decisions? I'd love to see some decent research into this. Even the US system where the voters get to vote for the Sanitation Commissioner and the Judge etc - is this any better than Irish and European systems?


There's also the issue that those involved in Direct Democracy Ireland, including the bould Gilroy are not people I'd want to give any power to.

eagle eye wrote: »

Varadkar wants to go and get an ISIS member out of jail and bring her back here to live freely.

You know how citizenship works, right? If she's committed a crime, she goes on trial. If she hasn't, she's entitled to live here, just like any other citizen. It's kinda important that governments don't get to override basic human rights on a whim.

markodaly wrote: »

To be honest, this is just populist nonsense akin to climate denial.

Most other OECD countries use some sort of e-voting and us Paddies are a sucker for thinking that we are somehow 'different'.

Our voting method has not changed at all in decades and should be updated and reformed.

In fact it's the reverse of climate denial, if you look at the science involved for an hour or two. How you ensure that the choices made by the voter on the system are the choices stored and counted, without compromising the secret ballot, or creating opportunities for vote selling or duress voting? Come up with a solution there if you can.

Seamai wrote: »

Heard both the chief counting officer in Cork and Paschal "Drama Queen" Sheehy making a big song and dance about the problems presented by the " 2 Foot plus long ballot paper" and it might be mid week before we have full results for Ireland South, what a bloody joke in this day and age, I know people have issues with e voting but there's also resistance out there from those who get a hard on at the prospect of a count stretched over several days.

The issue with evoting is that it's not possible to ensure that the vote cast is the vote counted. The current system with each ballot paper seen by the eyes of interested parties gives huge security to our democracy.

Squatter wrote: »

Never mind 10 pm, it appears that we won't have results until tomorrow - and maybe later in the case of Ireland South.

Where are those e-voting machines when we need them!

So what? What benefit would arise from having results on Saturday instead of Tuesday?

markodaly wrote: »

For the people who get a hard-on for our old fashioned voting system, we should reform it so that we can include early voting and online/postal voting a week out from the election.

The idea we have to wait a week for a result is a pathetic tbh.

Online voting is a great way to open up opportunities for vote selling and for duress voting by overbearing spouses or overbearing employers. How would this help things?


And so what if we wait a week? What benefit would arise from the early results?

kippy wrote: »

Think of all the "political commentators/analysts" and "media" who would be out of a job with e-voting. This is the real issue me thinks.

It's really not the issue. The integrity of our democracy is the issue, and making sure that voting is not for sale.

markodaly wrote: »

Do you have actual proof that e-voting was manipulated like what was mentioned in any OECD countries?

That's a great point. The problem with eVoting is that you'll never have actual proof that votes were manipulated. You'll just see inexplicable votes, probably supporting of corporate/pro-business/right wing parties. You'll never know.

markodaly wrote: »

The likes of the Dutch, Canada, Australia, Finland, the UK, and the US to name a few use it all the time.

UK don't have eVoting, though they did do very small trials this year. Australia have it for very limited purposes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_voting_by_country

markodaly wrote: »

I guess we should not use email or bank online either.

Email and online banking is not anonymous. Your bank transactions are explicitly linked to you. Your vote CANNOT be explicitly linked to you. That's the difference.

Topgear on Dave

markodaly wrote: »

Do you have actual proof that e-voting was manipulated like what was mentioned in any OECD countries?
The likes of the Dutch, Canada, Australia, Finland, the UK, and the US to name a few use it all the time.

I guess we should not use email or bank online either.

I work in electronics for a living and would far rather the simplicity and transparency of the system we have now where I can go and see my vote go into the box and view the counting if I want.

Eric Cartman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If this is correct, McHugh is not transfer friendly at all and I’d wonder about her exit poll accuracy to begin with.

yeah, really have to ask some questions about those exit polls so. Seems to be doing pretty badly as the count goes on ,

Calina

In other news, the wheels are coming off the far right/populist narrative with the AfD in Germany doing worse than expected and Golden Dawn in Greece slipping back too. For Germany, the Greens are looking at their biggest voteshare ever and in Greece, ND and Syriza appear to have swapped places.

I think polls are still open for France and Romania, and turnout for both of those is up quite a bit. Mad queues for Romania expats voting at their embassies too by the looks of things.

Calina

Also, EP has tweeted this link https://election-results.eu/

An Ciarraioch

Calina wrote: »

In other news, the wheels are coming off the far right/populist narrative with the AfD in Germany doing worse than expected and Golden Dawn in Greece slipping back too. For Germany, the Greens are looking at their biggest voteshare ever and in Greece, ND and Syriza appear to have swapped places.

I think polls are still open for France and Romania, and turnout for both of those is up quite a bit. Mad queues for Romania expats voting at their embassies too by the looks of things.

Visuals for Germany and Greece:

http://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1132682383138930688

http://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1132682672709537793

Mera25 is the Greek branch of Varoufakis's pan-European party.

Calina

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Mera25 is the Greek branch of Varoufakis's pan-European party.

Marginal for a seat I think. I saw a comment from Katherimini I think earlier thst suggested the legal minimum for a seat is 3% of the vote but in practical terms, 4.25 or so was required for safety.

robman60

Any tallies going for Dublin or South?

charlie14

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If this is correct, McHugh is not transfer friendly at all and I’d wonder about her exit poll accuracy to begin with.

If his figures are correct 40% transfer from McGuinness surplus to Walsh is pretty poor.

is_that_so

Calina wrote: »

In other news, the wheels are coming off the far right/populist narrative with the AfD in Germany doing worse than expected and Golden Dawn in Greece slipping back too. For Germany, the Greens are looking at their biggest voteshare ever and in Greece, ND and Syriza appear to have swapped places.

I think polls are still open for France and Romania, and turnout for both of those is up quite a bit. Mad queues for Romania expats voting at their embassies too by the looks of things.

If Syriza lose there could be a GE in Greece.

otnomart

First Exit polls on France: https://www.lesoir.be/227075/article/2019-05-26/elections-europeennes-en-france-macron-perd-son-pari-face-marine-le-pen-selon

is_that_so

charlie14 wrote: »

If his figures are correct 40% transfer from McGuinness surplus to Walsh is pretty poor.

It still doesn't have to be brilliant, just enough to put her ahead for a final seat. And that is a really tiny tally sample.

Calina

is_that_so wrote: »

If Syriza lose there could be a GE in Greece.

I saw that, certainly ND would look for it. Tsipris is one hell of a survivor though so I would not bet on the outcone.

Galwayguy35

Heard on the news there that Claire Daly is in with a good shout of getting a seat, I wonder what the Europeans will make of her screeching at them for the next 5 years if she gets in.

Might have to eat my words if Walsh gets in.