Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

Annasopra

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah, wouldn't want to be an uppity youngster. How dare I have a go at older people with their €500k houses they bought for €40k whilst forcing us to pay €1.5k a month for a shed an hour and a half away from work which pays us less than it pays you simply for being younger.

And while you're retired and enjoying your state pension and free travel pass, it's left to us to pay the €200bn national debt you racked up.

Cheers for that.

Show some humility, older people in Ireland are absolutely blessed with all of the advantages they have over younger people. More money, more public services, more freebies and they struggled far less with the basics than we are now. That's just a fact.

The pass is currently availably for free all day long, but it shouldn't be. That's the whole point.

Fair enough. Attack the services and conditions then. You'll only make things worse for yourself when you become old.

Annasopra

facehugger99 wrote: »

Even the phrase 'Free Travel' is erroneous.

Someone always has to pick up the tab. As per usual it's the people who pick up the tab for everything else like free water, free education and forever-homes.

You would swear oaps never ever paid any tax ffs

Goldengirl

This post has been deleted.

zimmermania

Emme wrote: »

I have just got on the train. I pay over €3K a year for the privilege of travelling to work and €250 a year for parking. I am forced to commute by train because there are no viable alternatives. Driving is out because it would take 2 hours or more each way on the N7. There are no buses that go from my area. I cannot afford to live any closer to work. There are thousands of people in my position.

Eveey morning a good proportion of the seats are taken up by what look like free travel pass holders. Sometimes people like myself (paying commuters) have to stand because of this. From Athy on more people have to stand. Meanwhile the FTP holders who got on in Waterford or Kilkenny bask in comfort.

I understand some of them have to go to hospital appointments which is fair enough. But the gaggle of 8 mature women talking loudly about their shopping trip could have got a later train. They will probably get a peak time train home in the evening as will many of the other FTP holders. They always seem to get to the train first in the evenings while people who rush to the train from work often have to stand.

When you are tired and burnt out you can get angry and resentful. Angry and resentful of getting nothing for your taxes and paying a huge chunk of your salary to commute (often standing each way) while those who pay nothing get the seats.

I agree that some of these people worked hard and paid high taxes in their time but not as many of them were forced to do long commutes. They didn't have to work under the same pressure as people do now. Many of the women could be full time mums while many commuting women do not have this choice. Many of the FTP holders are in better health and more energetic than exhausted commuters. Yet we will have to work far longer than they did. Because of their energy they are able to protest if the government takes away their full time FTPs. There was a time it was for off peak travel only.

Meanwhile commuters are getting screwed in every way but are too exhausted to do anything.

The FTP should be for off peak travel only. If the government wants to give it to pensioners full time it should be means tested. If some of them can afford to shop in BTs they can surely afford the price of a train ticket.

Many will disagree with me. But I am tired of paying so much and getting nothing in return.

Nobody likes standing but it would appear to me that you are seeking the wrong solution.

If.as you say you regularly have to stand the solution to your problem would be
extra carriages.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

There was 8 FTP holders that got on whilst i was on the bus this morning and 10 commuters standing.
Most sprightly enough to get up the stairs as well.

How did you know the 10 standing were commuters?
Did they just look like commuters?

Garibaldi?

The free travel pass makes sense at every level. Instead of being stuck inside looking at Jeremy Kyle or whatever, older people are taking buses and trains, keeping alert mentally and physically and spending a few quid which is considerable in boosting the economy. The free travel is the catalyst because most older people love to get value for money. They grew up in that mindset. During the week I saw a group of elderly women take to the Luas with gusto . They were on their way to the train station. The travel was free and they were hell-bent on spending the pension.

MrMusician18

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

This is just silly. Use is not abuse. Its actually a good thing that people goto the doctor more. It means their health improves and it means that they can go early and prevent sickness getting worse.

So what if oaps go on day trips.

That is a good thing. It is good for oaps to be out and about, socialising, meeting people and it is good for shops in towns.

The begrudgery that an oap goes on a day trip every so often is quite sickening to be honest.

Sorry Joey, I can't take you seriously or think you have any credibility on anything since you posted that you claimed it's settled people that are responsible for illegal dumping at halting sites. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105353373&postcount=30 :rolleyes:

And yeah, having hypochondriacs visiting GPs for coughs and sniffles means those in genuine need of medical care have to wait longer. Self treatable colds and coughs account for 20% of GP visits in the NHS. The abuse is so bad that if you have a fever you'll either have recovered or be in hospital before your GP appointment comes around there.

I agree OAPs going out and using their ftp is a good thing but not when their use is contributing to overloading of peak services. Social trips should only be free off peak.

MrMusician18

Goldengirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Back that claim up with facts please or is this just another thing you've made up to suit your world view?

end of the road

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Sorry Joey, I can't take you seriously or think you have any credibility on anything since you posted that you claimed it's settled people that are responsible for illegal dumping at halting sites. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105353373&postcount=30

to be fair, i'm not sure you can state how you can't take joey seriously when you believe the irrelevant post you dragged up because you hadn't a valid answer to his point was a serious post.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

And yeah, having hypochondriacs visiting GPs for coughs and sniffles means those in genuine need of medical care have to wait longer. Self treatable colds and coughs account for 20% of GP visits in the NHS. The abuse is so bad that if you have a fever you'll either have recovered or be in hospital before your GP appointment comes around there.

i'd imagine hypochondriacs will still visit regardless because they are hypochondriacs.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I agree OAPs going out and using their ftp is a good thing but not when their use is contributing to overloading of peak services.

everyone's use at peak times is contributing to overloading of peak services. that's life. peak services will have peak amounts of people.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Social trips should only be free off peak.

they shouldn't, and your reasons for wanting them to be ultimately don't add up.

they shud your wrong

MrMusician18

end of the road wrote: »

to be fair, i'm not sure you can state how you can't take joey seriously when you believe the irrelevant post you dragged up because you hadn't a valid answer to his point was a serious post.



i'd imagine hypochondriacs will still visit regardless because they are hypochondriacs.



everyone's use at peak times is contributing to overloading of peak services. that's life. peak services will have peak amounts of people.



they shouldn't, and your reasons for wanting them to be ultimately don't add up.

I think you'll find that hypochondriacs visit the GP a lot less when it's €60 a pop.

What point was that that I didn't address? That free GP visits improve outcomes. There is no evidence to suggest that the scheme as it stands in Ireland has. The poorest have a medical card anyway and those that earn enough that means they aren't entitled to the normal card shouldn't be hesitating to spend a few euro on their sick child. I don't buy this argument that middle class parents were neglecting their children to the point that there were seeing the doctor 1/3 less than they should have been before the scheme started. It's not credible and the child mortality rates prove this.

The post I dragged up is relevant as it strikes at their credibility. This is a poster who makes clearly ludicrous and false claims to suit their agenda.

Goldengirl

This post has been deleted.

the_syco

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What point was that that I didn't address? That free GP visits improve outcomes. There is no evidence to suggest that the scheme as it stands in Ireland has. The poorest have a medical card anyway and those that earn enough that means they aren't entitled to the normal card shouldn't be hesitating to spend a few euro on their sick child.

Those that don't work, get a free medical card.

Those that earn a lot, can afford the medical costs.

Those that earn just over the limit for the medical card will have money to pay the rent, buy food, and little else. Dropping €50 or €60 for a doctors visit would be avoided.

MrMusician18

Goldengirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I never said that parents were pretending their children were sick, but when a service is free there is no second thought on whether using the service is necessary. This is great in theory as it can mean illness can be picked up early but the reality is that GPs offices are filled with trivial complaints, sniffles and colds. This overuse then generates congestion in the service.
Finally this means that those in need have to wait longer until those with less need are seen to, not to mention reducing quality.

If parents were withholding almost 1/3 of necessary GP visits then this would absolutely be reflected in a higher child death rate. I suspect we won't see any appreciable improvement in mortality or indeed morbidly in children as a result of free GP care for under 6.

ohnonotgmail

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I think you'll find that hypochondriacs visit the GP a lot less when it's €60 a pop.

What point was that that I didn't address? That free GP visits improve outcomes. There is no evidence to suggest that the scheme as it stands in Ireland has. The poorest have a medical card anyway and those that earn enough that means they aren't entitled to the normal card shouldn't be hesitating to spend a few euro on their sick child. I don't buy this argument that middle class parents were neglecting their children to the point that there were seeing the doctor 1/3 less than they should have been before the scheme started. It's not credible and the child mortality rates prove this.

The post I dragged up is relevant as it strikes at their credibility. This is a poster who makes clearly ludicrous and false claims to suit their agenda.

what makes you think you have to be middle class to not qualify for a medical card? People on minimum wage working full time dont qualify.

First Up

A general discussion on Social Welfare entitlements is grand but has little to do with getting on a bus at rush hour.

My anecdotal experience is that FTP holders rarely travel at rush hour; others claim that their experience is otherwise.

So lets get the data and then see what should be done. Whatever about the politics, for those responsible, the cost and workload of imposing usage restrictions would only be justified if there is clear evidence that FTP users are a rush hour problem.

So lets get the evidence.

PlaneSpeeking

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

You would swear oaps never ever paid any tax ffs

For the 12th time NO ONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH OAPS!!!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Goldengirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And people bringing up mobility are blithely ignoring that it’s for illnesses as well as disabilities, because it doesn’t fit their viewpoint. Somebody who periodically suffers from debilitating seizures, say. They’ll get up those stairs most of the time, no problem. But to those fuming about people having the FTP, they don’t “look” disabled or ill in any way so they’re clearly scammers. :rolleyes:

I really need my travel card but I’m self-conscious about using it because I just know that judgement has been passed on me because I’m not hobbling or in a wheelchair and I don’t have look ill. Apparently one needs to ham up their illness to be believed. I’d love to invite any naysayers to take a look at my most recent CT and MRI scans and tell me there’s nothing wrong with me.

Mad_maxx

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

For the 12th time NO ONE HAS A PROBLEM WITH OAPS!!!

I do, they are over indulged by government

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

First Up wrote: »

A general discussion on Social Welfare entitlements is grand but has little to do with getting on a bus at rush hour.

My anecdotal experience is that FTP holders rarely travel at rush hour; others claim that their experience is otherwise.

So lets get the data and then see what should be done. Whatever about the politics, for those responsible, the cost and workload of imposing usage restrictions would only be justified if there is clear evidence that FTP users are a rush hour problem.

So lets get the evidence.

Sensible post.

JP Liz V1

Garibaldi? wrote: »

The free travel pass makes sense at every level. Instead of being stuck inside looking at Jeremy Kyle or whatever, older people are taking buses and trains, keeping alert mentally and physically and spending a few quid which is considerable in boosting the economy. The free travel is the catalyst because most older people love to get value for money. They grew up in that mindset. During the week I saw a group of elderly women take to the Luas with gusto . They were on their way to the train station. The travel was free and they were hell-bent on spending the pension.

A wild session in Dublin

I think Irish Rail should only take in on any train how many seats are available not to overcrowd put on extra trains or carriages

Prominent_Dawg

I've recently started pre booking all my seats, this way any time theres someone in your seat your entitled to a refund

PreCocious

Emme wrote: »

I have just got on the train. I pay over €3K a year for the privilege of travelling to work and €250 a year for parking. I am forced to commute by train because there are no viable alternatives. Driving is out because it would take 2 hours or more each way on the N7. There are no buses that go from my area. I cannot afford to live any closer to work. There are thousands of people in my position.

Eveey morning a good proportion of the seats are taken up by what look like free travel pass holders. Sometimes people like myself (paying commuters) have to stand because of this. From Athy on more people have to stand. Meanwhile the FTP holders who got on in Waterford or Kilkenny bask in comfort.

I understand some of them have to go to hospital appointments which is fair enough. But the gaggle of 8 mature women talking loudly about their shopping trip could have got a later train. They will probably get a peak time train home in the evening as will many of the other FTP holders. They always seem to get to the train first in the evenings while people who rush to the train from work often have to stand.

When you are tired and burnt out you can get angry and resentful. Angry and resentful of getting nothing for your taxes and paying a huge chunk of your salary to commute (often standing each way) while those who pay nothing get the seats.

I agree that some of these people worked hard and paid high taxes in their time but not as many of them were forced to do long commutes. They didn't have to work under the same pressure as people do now. Many of the women could be full time mums while many commuting women do not have this choice. Many of the FTP holders are in better health and more energetic than exhausted commuters. Yet we will have to work far longer than they did. Because of their energy they are able to protest if the government takes away their full time FTPs. There was a time it was for off peak travel only.

Meanwhile commuters are getting screwed in every way but are too exhausted to do anything.

The FTP should be for off peak travel only. If the government wants to give it to pensioners full time it should be means tested. If some of them can afford to shop in BTs they can surely afford the price of a train ticket.

Many will disagree with me. But I am tired of paying so much and getting nothing in return.

Hello Foggy_lad. Is that you ?

poisonated

Emme wrote: »

I trust my doctor for advice and I attend a specialist. In their opinions I do not have POTS and am fit to drive. ME covers a range of conditions and it is not permanent. I was out of work for most of a year but made sufficient recovery to drive and work.

Too many people in this country are willing to sit back and give up earning a living - the system enables it.

I still don’t think you should be driving if you’re prone to epileptic fits.