Free Travel Pass Holders on peak time public transport

Tipperary animal lover

Why not book a seat for your hour commute?

gimli2112

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

Why not book a seat for your hour commute?

How people haven't been killed by this "service" offered by Irish Rail I'll never know.

mariaalice

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

Why not book a seat for your hour commute?

It not really about a solution its a chance to for a resentment filled rant against older people, and mothers with children plus it include the disabled who have a job and a free bus pass but don't look disabled, using public transport at the same time as commuters.

Caliden

You pay 3k of your net wages to travel to work via train?

Take into account how long your travel time is and that just doesn't make economical sense.

Would you not consider taking a pay cut for a job that's closer and doesn't cost you 3k a year?

PlaneSpeeking

Tipperary animal lover wrote: »

Why not book a seat for your hour commute?

Sure thing, I'll add another grand a year on to the four I currently pay.

But then you've got people who will get in your seat anyway and not move added to Irish's rail's lovely habit of rarely putting the names up on seats.

Always the ones who contribute in this country get screwed. God bless Eire. :rolleyes:

PlaneSpeeking

Caliden wrote: »

You pay 3k of your net wages to travel to work via train?

Take into account how long your travel time is and that just doesn't make economical sense.

Would you not consider taking a pay cut for a job that's closer and doesn't cost you 3k a year?

Sure i'll just rip up the 11 years I've worked in this job, the 18 in total in the industry and 30 years overall - to work in the Eddie Rockets at the end of the road.

Real life may not be pretty but you can't avoid it. I've worked damn hard to get where I am, I don't mind commuting but i'm sick of being called a "self entitled worker" and on the receiving end of some lame Nazi garbage and that nonsense post about the Reform club - just for not wanting to stand like veal on the journey home after paying through the nose for it.

PlaneSpeeking

mariaalice wrote: »

It not really about a solution its a chance to for a resentment filled rant against older people, and mothers with children plus it include the disabled who have a job and a free bus pass but don't look disabled, using public transport at the same time as commuters.

That post could not be more wrong.

Chinasea

Emme wrote: »

I have just got on the train. I pay over €3K a year for the privilege of travelling to work and €250 a year for parking. I am forced to commute by train because there are no viable alternatives. Driving is out because it would take 2 hours or more each way on the N7. There are no buses that go from my area. I cannot afford to live any closer to work. There are thousands of people in my position.

Eveey morning a good proportion of the seats are taken up by what look like free travel pass holders. Sometimes people like myself (paying commuters) have to stand because of this. From Athy on more people have to stand. Meanwhile the FTP holders who got on in Waterford or Kilkenny bask in comfort.

I understand some of them have to go to hospital appointments which is fair enough. But the gaggle of 8 mature women talking loudly about their shopping trip could have got a later train. They will probably get a peak time train home in the evening as will many of the other FTP holders. They always seem to get to the train first in the evenings while people who rush to the train from work often have to stand.

When you are tired and burnt out you can get angry and resentful. Angry and resentful of getting nothing for your taxes and paying a huge chunk of your salary to commute (often standing each way) while those who pay nothing get the seats.

I agree that some of these people worked hard and paid high taxes in their time but not as many of them were forced to do long commutes. They didn't have to work under the same pressure as people do now. Many of the women could be full time mums while many commuting women do not have this choice. Many of the FTP holders are in better health and more energetic than exhausted commuters. Yet we will have to work far longer than they did. Because of their energy they are able to protest if the government takes away their full time FTPs. There was a time it was for off peak travel only.

Meanwhile commuters are getting screwed in every way but are too exhausted to do anything.

The FTP should be for off peak travel only. If the government wants to give it to pensioners full time it should be means tested. If some of them can afford to shop in BTs they can surely afford the price of a train ticket.

Many will disagree with me. But I am tired of paying so much and getting nothing in return.

I would agree without even the justification.

RobbingBandit

antodeco wrote: »

FTP holders should be put into specific carriages and the rest of the "wealthy" are out into the other carriages. I think to speed things up as well, they should get the long FTP number tattooed on the inside of their arms.

Free head shaves for all!

And how about a shamerock
The e is for the expense caused by the passes
I hope none of you ever get old or sick

witchgirl26

witchgirl26 wrote: »

You do realise that those who are entitled to the free pass due to age now did not shaft your generation at all and paid more nominal tax on their salaries than you currently are? In the 1980's there were six tax bands raging from 25% to 65% at the top. In 2018 the lowest tax rate is 20% with the highest being 40%. So realistically they have funded the free travel they're entitled to now themselves and you're the one with it a bit easier. And we don't have lower salaries. The cost of things has increased but so have salaries.

The country ran a deficit for that entire period.
The taxes paid didn't even cover current spending then never mind future benefits being given out today.

Hotblack Desiato

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Many oaps use the pass to travel around the country. They shop, go to restaurants, have a few drinks because they're not driving and stay in hotels. A lot of this is made possible by the free transport. It's an incentive to get out there and spend a few quid. I'd say many local businesses around the country would agree with me.

They don't need to travel at peak times to do any of this though. If they CHOOSE to travel at peak times then they should pay.

FTP used to be off peak only but FF removed the restrictions in a blatant move to buy votes while not providing capacity to meet the increased demand.

skooterblue2

A better focus is the investment of Urban/Rural. There is too much investment in Dublin and not enough in the Regional towns putting pressure on Dublin and no retention of youth in Rural and regional towns. Not everything has to happen in Dublin. Have proper regional development and decentralisation.

Hotblack Desiato

Too much investment in Dublin? Are you taking the mick? Dublin is starved of infrastructure and investment while its taxes subsidise the rest of the country.

iamwhoiam

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

They don't need to travel at peak times to do any of this though. If they CHOOSE to travel at peak times then they should pay.

FTP used to be off peak only but FF removed the restrictions in a blatant move to buy votes while not providing capacity to meet the increased demand.

Are there actually many pensioners travelling at peak times ? Apart from journeys to appointments and the odd random group going to catch a flight or off to a hotel I very much doubt there are armies of pensioners travelling at peak times . Then genuinely why would they bother squeezing on to a full bus or train when they can wait an hour ?

AlekSmart

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I'm not sure why you're running with the antisocial nonsense but I have no issue with fellow travellers; we're largely in the same boat.

I have an issue with being in the 12th hour of a working day and having to lean onto a jacks door for "comfort" while someone who wouldn't have put in 12 hours in the last year combined swans on to the train with their free pass and feral kids.

Oh and lose the Belsen type rhetotic guys, it doesn't make you sound edgy - just offensive.

To put your commuting experience into a perspective re numbers....

The DSP produces a Statistical Report each year,which contains a great deal of stuff,if you have the time it can either cure you...or kill you !!!


https://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Annual_Statistics_Report_2017.pdf

So in 2017,there were a total of 902,513 persons holding a FTP,if one includes the Spousal/Companion element then the figure is c.1.2 Million entitled persons. (The DSP do not appear to publish details of the actual Spouse/Companion numbers)

The 2017 FTS budget was €77,456,000 to cover the entirety of the scheme.

Again,for perspective and comparison an annual CIE "All Services Pass" covering the Groups Road & Rail services retails at....€6,530.

https://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/Annual-Tickets/CIE-All-Services-Irish-Rail-Dublin-Bus--Bus-Eireann/

Note: The CIE Ticket does NOT include Luas or Private Sector services,which the FTS pass does.

Anyway,as the Yanks might say..."Do the Math".....;)

skooterblue2

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Too much investment in Dublin? Are you taking the mick? Dublin is starved of infrastructure and investment while its taxes subsidise the rest of the country.

Nope!, You take those manufacturing jobs and some IT jobs and a few of those big Pharma jobs in North Dublin and take them out the country and they ease housing for people who really need to work in Dublin. There has been only one new factory opened in Waterford in the last 15 years since we lost the glass factory in Waterford city. Your few bob goes a lot further down the country than it does in Dublin. You ease housing, traffic, stress and educational pressures and rejuvenate the rest of the rural towns

Nesta99

Emme wrote: »

I have just got on the train. I pay over €3K a year for the privilege of travelling to work and €250 a year for parking. I am forced to commute by train because there are no viable alternatives. Driving is out because it would take 2 hours or more each way on the N7. There are no buses that go from my area. I cannot afford to live any closer to work. There are thousands of people in my position.

But I am tired of paying so much and getting nothing in return.

Tell me again the nothing you get in return!?

Of course there are some people who have the FTP under questionable circumstances but that is what happens when trying to provide for those who do need an FTP, the sick, vulnerable and elderly. The woman of who you speak have likely had prodiuctive working lives and whose taxes contributed to the train on which you sit upon.

Maybe there could be a informal type request for people in no hurry to avoid peak time trains but that would be for all types of ticket holder!

mariaalice

AlekSmart wrote: »

To put your commuting experience into a perspective re numbers....

The DSP produces a Statistical Report each year,which contains a great deal of stuff,if you have the time it can either cure you...or kill you !!!


https://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Annual_Statistics_Report_2017.pdf

So in 2017,there were a total of 902,513 persons holding a FTP,if one includes the Spousal/Companion element then the figure is c.1.2 Million entitled persons. (The DSP do not appear to publish details of the actual Spouse/Companion numbers)

The 2017 FTS budget was €77,456,000 to cover the entirety of the scheme.

Again,for perspective and comparison an annual CIE "All Services Pass" covering the Groups Road & Rail services retails at....€6,530.

https://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/Annual-Tickets/CIE-All-Services-Irish-Rail-Dublin-Bus--Bus-Eireann/

Note: The CIE Ticket does NOT include Luas or Private Sector services,which the FTS pass does.

Anyway,as the Yanks might say..."Do the Math".....;)

My mother had a free bus pass but never used it and there are lots like that, my first husband who is long since retired uses his free bus pass on the air coach and there are lots of like him healthy wealthy retires using their free bus pass on the air coach.

The way I see it is fair play to them, when and if I get to retirement I am planning to have a ball, I have a kind of warm benign love towards my fellow humans most are just trying their best.

PlaneSpeeking

AlekSmart wrote: »

To put your commuting experience into a perspective re numbers....

The DSP produces a Statistical Report each year,which contains a great deal of stuff,if you have the time it can either cure you...or kill you !!!


https://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/Annual_Statistics_Report_2017.pdf

So in 2017,there were a total of 902,513 persons holding a FTP,if one includes the Spousal/Companion element then the figure is c.1.2 Million entitled persons. (The DSP do not appear to publish details of the actual Spouse/Companion numbers)

The 2017 FTS budget was €77,456,000 to cover the entirety of the scheme.

Again,for perspective and comparison an annual CIE "All Services Pass" covering the Groups Road & Rail services retails at....€6,530.

https://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/Annual-Tickets/CIE-All-Services-Irish-Rail-Dublin-Bus--Bus-Eireann/

Note: The CIE Ticket does NOT include Luas or Private Sector services,which the FTS pass does.

Anyway,as the Yanks might say..."Do the Math".....;)

So a quarter of the country have one ???? Mother of Jesus!!!! No wonder there's no seats unless you get on the second the train boards!!!

Many thanks, scary thoughts there I might go for a pint and get the 7pm!!

iamwhoiam

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

So a quarter of the country have one ???? Mother of Jesus!!!! No wonder there's no seats unless you get on the second the train boards!!!

Many thanks, scary thoughts there I might go for a pint and get the 7pm!!

I doubt a quarter of the country are all bundling on to your train at peak travel time .Its hardly droves of people needing to move at once . It would be very interesting to see how many on your have a FTP ?

PlaneSpeeking

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I doubt a quarter of the country are all bundling on to your train at peak travel time .Its hardly droves of people needing to move at once . It would be very interesting to see how many on your have a FTP ?

It's rare that we get a ticket inspection but we did the other week and there were a fair few still with the old white ticket. I though they had been phased out ?

mariaalice

But what will happen if it is off-peak only say not before 10 am and not from 4 pm to 6 pm, and the trains and buses are still jammed at commuting times what will happen them?

iamwhoiam

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

It's rare that we get a ticket inspection but we did the other week and there were a fair few still with the old white ticket. I though they had been phased out ?

No idea , ours is the new green Public services card and it written in the top corner if its for free travel .

PlaneSpeeking

iamwhoiam wrote: »

No idea , ours is the new green Public services card and it written in the top corner if its for free travel .

Seen a few of them alright, all elderly people who should be allowed to travel where and when they want.

Emme

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

So a quarter of the country have one ???? Mother of Jesus!!!! No wonder there's no seats unless you get on the second the train boards!!!

Many thanks, scary thoughts there I might go for a pint and get the 7pm!!

If those figures are correct then 1 in 4 people are travelling free gratis at any time. As stated before the sick and incapacitated are entitled to free travel. However can nearly 1 in 4 really be sick and incapacitated?

The only support I got on this thread was from other people who are working and have long commutes. That is very telling. I was also told that I am paying too much to travel. I am well aware of that. I can barely make ends meet at the end of the month. I feel like I am slaving away in a feudal system as a serf with the welfare class as my overlords. Cue the litany of rage from people claiming various benefits... pipe down!

I don't mean the sick and incapacitated. Maybe some pensioners sacrificed years of their life caring for an elderly relative. They are entitled to some comfort at the end of their years. I agree that generation worked hard in their own way.

However some (not all, SOME) had benefits we can only dream of. High taxes, yes. Were they higher than what we pay now? I don't know but money seemed to go further. There were more jobs in people's locality. Long commutes were rare. People were not expected to work as much unpaid overtime. More mothers could work in the home. People could retire at 60 or 65 after 40 years in the same job and some could look forward to a decent lifestyle after this.

Now some commuters rush from home to creche to train to work to train to creche and then home to start the second shift. 6 hours uninterrupted sleep is a rare treat for these people.

Someone said they worked hard and raised 4 children. Well done and I hope those 4 children are a credit to you. However the average working couple now could not afford 4 children. They would probably not be able to stretch to a second job because of time constraints and the demands of the existing job.

The reality is when we retire at 70 or even older it is unlikely the free travel pass will still be available. There will be no money to pay for it. That doesn't mean we should begrudge it to those who have it today but it should be used judiciously.

Some older people have taken offence at this thread but if they have working adult children with families surely they realise the pressures some are under, particularly if they live in a rural area and have to commute long distances to work. Some city dwellers may have seen their children move to the likes of Carlow, Portlaoise or Portarlington to find an affordable home. And commute to Dublin every day from there.

The free travel pass as it is now will probably not change until the next recession. But if it does, the already overstretched workers will be hit a lot harder.

PlaneSpeeking

I think this is interesting too:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-1-300-free-travel-passes-confiscated-in-2017-1.3389961

iamwhoiam

Emme wrote: »

If those figures are correct then 1 in 4 people are travelling free gratis at any time. As stated before the sick and incapacitated are entitled to free travel. However can nearly 1 in 4 really be sick and incapacitated?

The only support I got on this thread was from other people who are working and have long commutes. That is very telling. I was also told that I am paying too much to travel. I am well aware of that. I can barely make ends meet at the end of the month. I feel like I am slaving away in a feudal system as a serf with the welfare class as my overlords. Cue the litany of rage from people claiming various benefits... pipe down!

I don't mean the sick and incapacitated. Maybe some pensioners sacrificed years of their life caring for an elderly relative. They are entitled to some comfort at the end of their years. I agree that generation worked hard in their own way.

However some (not all, SOME) had benefits we can only dream of. High taxes, yes. Were they higher than what we pay now? I don't know but money seemed to go further. There were more jobs in people's locality. Long commutes were rare. People were not expected to work as much unpaid overtime. More mothers could work in the home. People could retire at 60 or 65 after 40 years in the same job and some could look forward to a decent lifestyle after this.

Now some commuters rush from home to creche to train to work to train to creche and then home to start the second shift. 6 hours uninterrupted sleep is a rare treat for these people.

Someone said they worked hard and raised 4 children. Well done and I hope those 4 children are a credit to you. However the average working couple now could not afford 4 children. They would probably not be able to stretch to a second job because of time constraints and the demands of the existing job.

The reality is when we retire at 70 or even older it is unlikely the free travel pass will still be available. There will be no money to pay for it. That doesn't mean we should begrudge it to those who have it today but it should be used judiciously.

Some older people have taken offence at this thread but if they have working adult children with families surely they realise the pressures some are under, particularly if they live in a rural area and have to commute long distances to work. harder.

If you are referring to me then Yes thank you I fully understand the pressures my adult children are under . We use our free travel pass to pick up our grandchild and mind her four days a week to try ease the pressure . So don't be so quick to judge us . Thanks

pjohnson

Emme wrote: »

If those figures are correct then 1 in 4 people are travelling free gratis at any time. As stated before the sick and incapacitated are entitled to free travel. However can nearly 1 in 4 really be sick and incapacitated?

The only support I got on this thread was from other people who are working and have long commutes. That is very telling. I was also told that I am paying too much to travel. I am well aware of that. I can barely make ends meet at the end of the month. I feel like I am slaving away in a feudal system as a serf with the welfare class as my overlords. Cue the litany of rage from people claiming various benefits... pipe down!

I don't mean the sick and incapacitated. Maybe some pensioners sacrificed years of their life caring for an elderly relative. They are entitled to some comfort at the end of their years. I agree that generation worked hard in their own way.

However some (not all, SOME) had benefits we can only dream of. High taxes, yes. Were they higher than what we pay now? I don't know but money seemed to go further. There were more jobs in people's locality. Long commutes were rare. People were not expected to work as much unpaid overtime. More mothers could work in the home. People could retire at 60 or 65 after 40 years in the same job and some could look forward to a decent lifestyle after this.

Now some commuters rush from home to creche to train to work to train to creche and then home to start the second shift. 6 hours uninterrupted sleep is a rare treat for these people.

Someone said they worked hard and raised 4 children. Well done and I hope those 4 children are a credit to you. However the average working couple now could not afford 4 children. They would probably not be able to stretch to a second job because of time constraints and the demands of the existing job.

The reality is when we retire at 70 or even older it is unlikely the free travel pass will still be available. There will be no money to pay for it. That doesn't mean we should begrudge it to those who have it today but it should be used judiciously.

Some older people have taken offence at this thread but if they have working adult children with families surely they realise the pressures some are under, particularly if they live in a rural area and have to commute long distances to work. Some city dwellers may have seen their children move to the likes of Carlow, Portlaoise or Portarlington to find an affordable home. And commute to Dublin every day from there.

The free travel pass as it is now will probably not change until the next recession. But if it does, the already overstretched workers will be hit a lot harder.

Bahahaha. Yeah thats it. Not possible that those disagreeing are also workers. Not every worker is a whinger.

pjohnson

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I think this is interesting too:

So the government ARE clamping down on the misuse of FTP then. Thats good those not deserving get it confiscated. Whats the outrage again

Emme

pjohnson wrote: »

Bahahaha. Yeah thats it. Not possible that those disagreeing are also workers. Not every worker is a whinger.

Please tell me how long is your commute to and from work and how do you get there?

Shanotheslayer

Emme wrote: »

Please tell me how long is your commute to and from work and how do you get there?

I live in Dublin and my Commute to work is roughly an hour including walking to and from the Luas.

If I don't get a seat it's a bit of a pain but so be it. I don't complain about it. You can be productive on public transport which is what I do.

Shanotheslayer

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Seen a few of them alright, all elderly people who should be allowed to travel where and when they want.

The issue isn't them travelling where and when they want. It's that they don't pay for it :pac:

witchgirl26

Emme wrote: »

I don't mean the sick and incapacitated. Maybe some pensioners sacrificed years of their life caring for an elderly relative. They are entitled to some comfort at the end of their years. I agree that generation worked hard in their own way.

So unless they looked after someone, they're not entitled to the FTP?

Emme wrote: »

However some (not all, SOME) had benefits we can only dream of. High taxes, yes. Were they higher than what we pay now? I don't know but money seemed to go further. There were more jobs in people's locality. Long commutes were rare. People were not expected to work as much unpaid overtime. More mothers could work in the home. People could retire at 60 or 65 after 40 years in the same job and some could look forward to a decent lifestyle after this.

Yes they were higher. Significantly. Tax rates ranged from 25% to 65% in the 1980's whereas now they're either 20% or 40%. Bit of a difference. Also in regards the commute - my dad had a commute of over an hour as it was pre M50 days (for the most part) and he worked the far side of the city to where we lived. When he took early retirement, it wasn't some amazing lifestyle. The only reason he could afford to was that my mam was still working and their mortgage had been paid off due to a small lotto win. And he only retired early by 2 years.

Emme wrote: »

Now some commuters rush from home to creche to train to work to train to creche and then home to start the second shift. 6 hours uninterrupted sleep is a rare treat for these people.

But that is hardly the fault of the FTP holders is it? That has literally nothing to do with them being on the trains or buses.

Emme wrote: »

The reality is when we retire at 70 or even older it is unlikely the free travel pass will still be available. There will be no money to pay for it. That doesn't mean we should begrudge it to those who have it today but it should be used judiciously.

There is no indication at the moment that this will be the case. In fact Ireland has quite a growing population as opposed to an aging one so by the time people in their 30's or 40's come to retire, the workforce should be in a position to continue funding a scheme such as this. I know my mam rarely uses her FTP at peak times but the other morning she had to be in town for 9am for something. So she used it as she is entitled to. To her it didn't seem a big deal as she only uses it once or twice a year at peak times.

Look I can understand being frustrated that you don't get a seat at the end of a long day but realistically you aren't guaranteed that seat even if the FTP holders aren't on the train. In fact, what are the odds the number of carriages would be reduced if "the demand on the service" wasn't there from the number of passengers travelling if there really are that many of them.

skooterblue2

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

The issue isn't them travelling where and when they want. It's that they don't pay for it :pac:

If they worked while serving under Lemasse, told to tighten their belts under Haughey and Fitzgearld while in constant recession, mass unemployment and immigration then they have hard earned their pension and benefits. Fair dues to ye all you have earned it.

mariaalice

skooterblue2 wrote: »

If they worked while serving under Lemasse, told to tighten their belts under Haughey and Fitzgearld while in constant recession, mass unemployment and immigration then they have hard earned their pension and benefits. Fair dues to ye all you have earned it.

plus the mortgage rates.

1975 11.25%
1976 12.5%
1977 13.95%
1978 14.15%
1979 14.15%
1980 14.15%
1981 16.25%
1982 16.25%
1983 13.0%
1984 11.75%
1985 13%
1986 12.5%
1987 12.5%
1988 9.25%
1989 11.4%
1990 12.37%
1991 11.95%
1992 13.99%
1993 13.99%

Edgware

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I live in Dublin and my Commute to work is roughly an hour including walking to and from the Luas.

If I don't get a seat it's a bit of a pain but so be it. I don't complain about it. You can be productive on public transport which is what I do.

If you dont get a seat there is always the risk of rubbing up against some young one

skooterblue2

Edgware wrote: »

If you dont get a seat there is always the risk of rubbing up against some young one

Straight out of the mouth of Mick the Bull :

Zorya

I can understand your irritation, OP, but surely it is misdirected?

Instead of being cross with elderly travelers, be cross with a government and transport company that does not provide sufficient stock to transport all their passengers in comfort. As is their mandate.

Instead of being cross with elderly passengers using their FTPs as they are permitted, lobby TDs and government to have the amenity changed to an Off-Peak allowance, with contribution at Peak travel times. It is unlikely that pensioners are regularly having days out - it will be different groups different days, and as individuals they are entitled to use the passes as they are presently designated.

Instead of being cross with these elderly passengers be cross at the feudal system (I agree with you completely on that) that has you and many others hounded from morning to night, often working at bull**** or meaningless jobs in order to be barely or not able to afford to live decently ie with sufficient time for loved ones and sufficient funds for basic necessities like housing.

We are all kept incessantly at each others throats in this system, snarling at and begrudging each other every morsel, because the system is so damn heartless - and thus we do not raise our eyes, voices (and better yet, pitchforks!) to look at the fat cats who are responsible, who cream off the wealth andwho could hardly give less of a single fcuk about the plebian masses ie their workers and consumers.

May we all be old one day.

Emme

Zorya wrote: »

I can understand your irritation, OP, but surely it is misdirected? Instead of being cross with elderly travelers, be cross with a government and transport company that does not provide sufficient stock to transport all their passengers in comfort. As is their mandate.

I agree that my irritation could be misdirected. The train line I travel on (Waterford) is forgotten and underresourced. Trains are nearly always late and take 10-15 minutes longer to complete their journey than stated. Exhaustion can stop people from thinking clearly and I am permanently exhausted, I have been since I moved from Dublin to the countryside.

Zorya wrote: »

Instead of being cross with elderly passengers using their FTPs as they are permitted, lobby TDs and government to have the amenity changed to an Off-Peak allowance, with contribution at Peak travel times. It is unlikely that pensioners are regularly having days out - it will be different groups different days, and as individuals they are entitled to use the passes as they are presently designated.

I don't think the government will change the FTP system. Perhaps one reason I am so annoyed at these seemingly sprightly pensioners because I have seen my own parents suffer so much over the years - they would not have been able to use the travel pass for a long time.

Zorya wrote: »

Instead of being cross with these elderly passengers be cross at the feudal system (I agree with you completely on that) that has you and many others hounded from morning to night, often working at bull**** or meaningless jobs in order to be barely or not able to afford to live decently ie with sufficient time for loved ones and sufficient funds for basic necessities like housing.

I agree the system is ridiculous. The average person is priced out of Dublin and towns within a 20 km radius yet the countryside is being denuded of jobs daily and people are forced to do longer and longer commutes to their places of work.

Zorya wrote: »

We are all kept incessantly at each others throats in this system, snarling at and begrudging each other every morsel, because the system is so damn heartless - and thus we do not raise our eyes, voices (and better yet, pitchforks!) to look at the fat cats who are responsible, who cream off the wealth andwho could hardly give less of a single fcuk about the plebian masses ie their workers and consumers.

The system is designed that way. We lash out at the person next to us rather than those above us. This technique was used to succesfully pit private sector workers against public sector workers during the recession to justify pay cuts all round and an overall reduction in people's pay, work conditions and rights.

Zorya wrote: »

May we all be old one day.

If people want to be old I wish them a happy, healthy and prosperous old age.

I personally do not want to live beyond a certain age because I have seen too much ongoing suffering in my own family over the years. Dealing with suffering family members takes up nearly all of my time outside work and I admit it leaves me exhausted and embittered. It is very difficult when you are powerless to help people who are suffering and there is no end in sight.

iamwhoiam

^^^^^

So am I reading your above post right ? You are annoyed at me for being a sprightly pensioner because your parents are less able than I ?

Zorya

Emme wrote: »

If people want to be old I wish them a happy, healthy and prosperous old age.

I personally do not want to live beyond a certain age because I have seen too much ongoing suffering in my own family over the years. Dealing with suffering family members takes up nearly all of my time outside work and I admit it leaves me exhausted and embittered. It is very difficult when you are powerless to help people who are suffering and there is no end in sight.

Sorry to hear. My own dad suffered tremendously, but nevertheless I would still like to grow old, and look forward to it.

I grew up along that Waterford line, and traveled regularly to Dublin from one of the towns much maligned along the line Even donkeys years ago you were guaranteed a long stand all the way to the city. Plus ca change, eh?

Zorya

iamwhoiam wrote: »

^^^^^

So am I reading your above post right ? You are annoyed at me for being a sprightly pensioner because your parents are less able than I ?

I think they are admitting to being exhausted and embittered. Which is fair of them. Given enough to deal with, any of us could get to feel that way. I know when I am exhausted enough it's a good thing concealed carry is not legal in this country

iamwhoiam

Zorya wrote: »

I think they are admitting to being exhausted and embittered. Which is fair of them. Given enough to deal with, any of us could get to feel that way. I know when I am exhausted enough it's a good thing concealed carry is not legal in this country

Look , I had my own difficulties in life and now retired . I understand being exhausted but oddly enough I never thought that begrudging pensioners their free travel was going to ease my burden !

Emme

iamwhoiam wrote: »

^^^^^

So am I reading your above post right ? You are annoyed at me for being a sprightly pensioner because your parents are less able than I ?

If you have your health and are able to get around without pain be thankful.

Zorya

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Look , I had my own difficulties in life and now retired . I understand being exhausted but oddly enough I never thought that begrudging pensioners their free travel was going to ease my burden !

Me too (difficulties) and me neither (begrudging) ...although 1. when I have my period all bets are off on public transport :pac: and 2. there is a smelly-arsed, pissy-panted brigade of old codgers who use the bus transport daily in this area and I would rather cling to the roof rack than ever share space with them again!

iamwhoiam

Emme wrote: »

If you have your health and are able to get around without pain be thankful.

What makes you think for one single second that I am not ?

Chinasea

I don't agree with free travel. Every one should pay something at least. You'd think Ireland was Brunei sometimes.

Pensioners travel at a reduced rate in the USA. As much as 50%. You can bet that most of them have also contributed to the work force.

Lone Stone

jesus christ

Sir Oxman

Dalomanakora wrote: »

So my quite disabled relative who can't even walk without assistance should only go out off-peak?


Or how about they go out whenever the hell it suits them because they're entitled to their travel pass?

As pointed out previoulsy, maybe pay during peak hours?

FTA69

Emme wrote: »

The only support I got on this thread was from other people who are working and have long commutes. That is very telling. I was also told that I am paying too much to travel. I am well aware of that. I can barely make ends meet at the end of the month. I feel like I am slaving away in a feudal system as a serf with the welfare class as my overlords. Cue the litany of rage from people claiming various benefits... pipe down!

Claiming benefits? I've never claimed a benefit in my life. Also I'm currently working out in Heathrow Airport which is nearly two hours away from me; and if you think congestion is bad on Irish rail then try and get on the Tube at rush hour. I know plenty about long commutes and hard work thanks. The difference is I don't get on the Tube or the train here and blame people on the dole for the fact it's packed.

By the way the people who pay your wages and have us all trapped in a system of crap pay and crap public services aren't the unemployed or the elderly. If you're looking to change the system then look at those with stake in it and those who wield economic power, not those who don't. If you're reasoning for poor transport in Ireland is "it's the unemployed" then your perspectives are off the wall. You need to look higher up the chain.