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Politcally Incorrect

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    #122
    fash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭fash


    One of the (many) stupid mistakes made by Cameron was not requiring the "No" side to define what they wanted. Hence the brexiters were able to present brexit as a wonderful "mystery box" filled with all sorts of amazing wonderful fantastical and mutually contradictory things, depending on who was listening. "Only a mad man would think of leaving the single market" and stuff like that. Secondly as large rattly mystery box (wow, what's inside!!)) brexit have no downsides since downsides only come with concrete proposals.

    Therfore, for those who are suggesting Ireland should leave the EU, please explain what relationship you would look for - From Norway+CU to North Korea to Mauritania.


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    #123
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I couldn't be bothered to go and find links for you.
    Don’t think anyone specifically asked for links. Not even an example?
    Make a claim, then doesn’t back it up. Sounds like the Brexit side alright! :)


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    #124
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    fash wrote: »
    Therfore, for those who are suggesting Ireland should leave the EU, please explain what relationship you would look for - From Norway+CU to North Korea to Mauritania.
    Not to mention the numerous multinationals that would up and leave. How do Irexteers propose we replace those jobs/finances?


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    #125
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm not saying anybody was honest.


    Yes, they all told lies.
    I couldn't be bothered to go and find links for you.

    Fair enough on the first point.

    Regarding the second, It's amazing how little people suddenly care about their points in a debate as soon as you ask them to actually price what they're taking about. It's like creationism.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #126
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭Harika


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    fash wrote: »
    Therfore, for those who are suggesting Ireland should leave the EU, please explain what relationship you would look for - From Norway+CU to North Korea to Mauritania.
    Not to mention the numerous multinationals that would up and leave. How do Irexteers propose we replace those jobs/finances?

    By new trade deals with the UK and the rest of the world.
    Also with irexit all non Irish will go home, what opens jobs for the Irish people.


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    #127
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,161 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote:
    Regarding the second, It's amazing how little people suddenly care about their points in a debate as soon as you ask them to actually price what they're taking about. It's like creationism.

    I'm here to have a chat about things, not to go and Google.


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    #128
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,161 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Ivory Quiet Murderer wrote:
    Not to mention the numerous multinationals that would up and leave. How do Irexteers propose we replace those jobs/finances?
    Kick out all the Europeans?


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    #129
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm here to have a chat about things, not to go and Google.

    We have a considerable amount of evidence that the UK will be in a worse and weaker position after brexit, even with the deal. You can say the public are not intelligent as much as you want but if there's an appetite to review the decision of if they really want to go through with brexit, that's reasonable and democratic.

    The leave side sold Brexit in an incredibly dishonest fashion and various groups and people that were involved are under investigation. So at the very least, it was a poorly handled referendum where the public weren't really clear what they were signing up for.


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    #130
    fash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭fash


    Harika wrote: »
    By new trade deals with the UK and the rest of the world. .
    The EU is the most powerful economic entity in the world with the most number of trade agreements of any entity in history.
    Ireland, a tiny country, outside the EU, customs Union and single market would be torn to shreds negotiating - especially if it were to drop out quickly.
    See how the British tried (and for the first time in history and to their great surprise failed) to bully Ireland during the brexit negotiations. See the UK's proposal to have the border issue decided by the UK and Ireland as opposed to the EU (in order to bully Ireland).

    The UK on leaving the single market and customs Union itself will be crushed in every meaningful trade agreement - why do you want the same for Ireland? Why do you want Ireland to once again be a vassal of the UK? ( Which is where we end up)

    EDIT: and here is a “cold hard reality” position from Australia as to how and what will happen in a post Brexit UK-Australia trade negotiation: https://threader.app/thread/1052458691629338626
    Imagine how it would be for Ireland. So what trade deals would Ireland do that it already does not have through the EU and how would you propose to get better terms than the EU already has? What will you sacrifice in order to achieve that?

    Harika wrote: »
    Also with irexit all non Irish will go home, what opens jobs for the Irish people.
    Unless you are planning to go back to subsistence potato farming, what jobs do you think will be left when the IT, pharmaceutical, financial and other multinationals leave the country?
    What will you do when even the indigenous industries (farming and high end food products) - which benefit massively from the EU market as well as its trade deals are stuck behind massive tariff walls as we fall outside the greatest number of trade agreements in history?

    I honestly find it hard not to believe that anyone who is pro leaving the EU is either a traitor to the country or attempting to sabotage the country due whatever reason.


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    #131
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Harika wrote: »
    By new trade deals with the UK and the rest of the world.
    Also with irexit all non Irish will go home, what opens jobs for the Irish people.
    Hahaaaaaaaaa!
    Irexit doesn't mean that non-Irish go home. Many non-Irish are here cause we don't have the Irish with the skills for the jobs.
    Seriously, the weakness in your argument.


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    #132
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Kick out all the Europeans?
    Multinational
    noun
    plural noun: multinationals
    a company operating in several countries.


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    #133
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    Paul Lee wrote: »
    I run a meetup group in Cork every second Thursday. We discuss all kinds of things that are suppressed in the media and generally in society.

    Like what?


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    #134
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm here to have a chat about things, not to go and Google.
    Then have a chat. Who are these "loud voices" of the anti-Brexit side that frightened more people? You don't have to Google it, just give one/two examples and what they said?
    "the public as a whole is not that intelligent" seems to include yourself if you can't even provide a basic follow up on your statement.


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    #135
    mordeith
    Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭mordeith




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    #136
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,161 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Ivory Quiet Murderer wrote:
    Multinational noun plural noun: multinationals a company operating in several countries.
    Yeah my suggestion is kick out all the foreigners and there'll still be plenty of jobs. Housing crisis over too!!!


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    #137
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Yeah my suggestion is kick out all the foreigners and there'll still be plenty of jobs. Housing crisis over too!!!
    No idea what you are on about. I said multinationals, you said Europeans for some reason.

    If you want Irexit and foreigners out, then a housing crisis will be the least of our worries.


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    #138
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,161 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Thanks for the insult.
    I'm just giving my opinion based on what I've read and heard.
    I'm not going into it with you because you are clearly all in on one side. If I put up something you'll just argue that it's good information.
    The real truth is that nobody actually knows what's going to happen. These are uncertain times for the UK for sure.
    The only thing definite about this is that it markedly weakens the EU. It could be the catalyst for the end of the European Union.


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    #139
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm just giving my opinion based on what I've read and heard.
    Well, you're making a statement, and not backing it up. Up to you. And you're only being asked a simple question, just provide examples of what you heard and from whom. No links, just a basic outline. You're insulting yourself by making such remarks and then being too lazy to back it up.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    The only thing definite about this is that it markedly weakens the EU. It could be the catalyst for the end of the European Union.
    To an extent, but not as much as it weakens the UK. Depending on how it all goes, it might be the end of the UK if Scotland has another vote.
    The EU are going to lose the UK, but it also loses probably the most Eurosceptic county and a chance to move forward without them.


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    #140
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm here to have a chat about things, not to go and Google.

    So you admit to not doing anything to learn about the topic before wading in. Fair enough - perfecty reasonable then no one to take you seriously on that stance.

    We're done - I'll chat with someone who actually admits to having some clue what they're taking about.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #141
    fash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭fash


    eagle eye wrote: »
    The only thing definite about this is that it markedly weakens the EU.

    I would suggest that it weakens the UK and may bring about its demise - with potentially the loss of both Scotland and Northern Ireland. As for Europe, Brexit could potentially strengthen Europe as the UK will be the " horrible warning" of where unthinking and stupid populism leads.


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    #142
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭Harika


    fash wrote: »
    eagle eye wrote: »
    The only thing definite about this is that it markedly weakens the EU.

    I would suggest that it weakens the UK and may bring about its demise - with potentially the loss of both Scotland and Northern Ireland. As for Europe, Brexit could potentially strengthen Europe as the UK will be the " horrible warning" of where unthinking and stupid populism leads.

    Last is a problem as the UK was fiscally as strict as Germany and working together with them. After Brexit France and Italy who prefer a more relaxed fiscal policy will have less opposition. This might actually weaken the euro


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    #143
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭Harika


    fash wrote: »
    Harika wrote: »
    By new trade deals with the UK and the rest of the world. .
    The EU is the most powerful economic entity in the world with the most number of trade agreements of any entity in history.
    Ireland, a tiny country, outside the EU, customs Union and single market would be torn to shreds negotiating - especially if it were to drop out quickly.
    See how the British tried (and for the first time in history and to their great surprise failed) to bully Ireland during the brexit negotiations. See the UK's proposal to have the border issue decided by the UK and Ireland as opposed to the EU (in order to bully Ireland).

    The UK on leaving the single market and customs Union itself will be crushed in every meaningful trade agreement - why do you want the same for Ireland? Why do you want Ireland to once again be a vassal of the UK? ( Which is where we end up)

    EDIT: and here is a “cold hard reality” position from Australia as to how and what will happen in a post Brexit UK-Australia trade negotiation: https://threader.app/thread/1052458691629338626
    Imagine how it would be for Ireland.

    But pig ears to China... Nah sorry I am on your side anyway and cannot even come up with tangible advantages for Ireland after irexit.


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    #144
    fash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭fash


    Harika wrote: »
    Last is a problem as the UK was fiscally as strict as Germany and working together with them. After Brexit France and Italy who prefer a more relaxed fiscal policy will have less opposition. This might actually weaken the euro
    Not sure what effect a non Euro member ever had on the euro. Are you in favour of a hard Euro then?
    If so, why do you feel leaving the Euro would be a good idea? Surely we would end with the "banana- punt" controlled by whatever generalisimo took Ireland out of the EU - (hyper)-inflating the currency for the same populist reasons as leaving the EU.


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    #145
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭Harika


    fash wrote: »
    Harika wrote: »
    Last is a problem as the UK was fiscally as strict as Germany and working together with them. After Brexit France and Italy who prefer a more relaxed fiscal policy will have less opposition. This might actually weaken the euro
    Not sure what effect a non Euro member ever had on the euro. Are you in favour of a hard Euro then?
    If so, why do you feel leaving the Euro would be a good idea? Surely we would end with the "banana- punt" controlled by whatever generalisimo took Ireland out of the EU - (hyper)-inflating the currency for the same populist reasons as leaving the EU.

    I was misinterpreted with my post that I support irexit, while parroting leave slogans.
    I prefer a hard euro as inflation sucks, also keeps government focused as you cannot inflate debt away.
    Draghi is working hard to keep inflation at least a bit up.


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    #146
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Harika wrote: »
    Last is a problem as the UK was fiscally as strict as Germany and working together with them. After Brexit France and Italy who prefer a more relaxed fiscal policy will have less opposition. This might actually weaken the euro

    But the UK was not a eurozone country and had zero input into eurozone fiscal policy.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #147
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,441 ✭✭✭Harika


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Harika wrote: »
    Last is a problem as the UK was fiscally as strict as Germany and working together with them. After Brexit France and Italy who prefer a more relaxed fiscal policy will have less opposition. This might actually weaken the euro

    But the UK was not a eurozone country and had zero input into eurozone fiscal policy.

    Read the article some time ago and I think as UK is part of the Stability and Growth Pact and by that has input. Maybe not the euro itself


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    #148
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 38,161 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote:
    So you admit to not doing anything to learn about the topic before wading in. Fair enough - perfecty reasonable then no one to take you seriously on that stance.
    I never admitted that. Just because I refuse to conform to what you want doesn't make me clueless.


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    #149
    yoke
    Registered Users Posts: 525 ✭✭✭yoke


    eagle eye wrote: »
    [...] Just because I refuse to conform to what you want doesn't make me clueless.

    That certainly is not what makes you clueless.

    Your suggestion of “kick the foreigners out, then we can take their houses to fix the housing crisis!” is very similar to saying “let’s forbid anyone with red hair from having children, and then we can take their houses after they die! Thus fixing the housing crisis long term!!”.

    It’s a stupid idea because it is unfair, once you start making unfair laws, where do you stop?

    It’s the reason no one wants to invest in places like Zimbabwe, with pricks like Robert Mugabe making unfair laws, no one trusts them, and they get left in the stone age and with massive corruption and no outside help.
    What’s interesting is that something very similar was done in Uganda in the 1970s, where they kicked all the newly-immigrated foreigners out, and that actually ended up ruining the country even more, arguably it (Uganda) never recovered even though Idi Amin has been dead nearly 40 years.


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    #150
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I never admitted that. Just because I refuse to conform to what you want doesn't make me clueless.

    That's not what makes you clueless.

    Coming up with ideas/stances but admitting you're not going to google/do research makes you clueless. Which you DID openly admit.
    (The fact that you appear to be completely unaware of this and think it's something to do with a lack of conformity makes you even MORE clueless, to be honest)

    NOW we're done here.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #151
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I never admitted that. Just because I refuse to conform to what you want doesn't make me clueless.
    Conform? People were asking you to Confirm what you stated.
    You need to take a trip to reality-land if you can’t see the difference.

    You failed to provide one example off the top of your head, even though they were so loud.
    On the opposite side I can of Dyson’s loud voice, who has since gone silent and decided to locate operations outside of the UK (despite public money being used). There’s an example of someone who used their voice to state Brexit was good for the UK, but then buggered off elsewhere.


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