Using Property Taxes to Encourage Redistribution of Family Homes

EdgeCase

Cyrus wrote: »

there are far more advantages for co's setting up here than disadvantages, increased housing costs wont be the tipping point

They're already causing very significant issues in the IT sector due to inability to recruit and more do inability to retain key staff in Dublin.

The issue is FDI might continue in terms of HQs but technical operations they actually employ large numbers of people could taper off - that has huge implications for tax revenues as we benefit more from the knock-on effect of those companies being here then from their corporation tax.

Cyrus

EdgeCase wrote: »

They're already causing very significant issues in the IT sector due to inability to recruit and more do inability to retain key staff in Dublin.

examples of this? key staff wont have an issue with housing, its more a problem for lower paid jobs.

EdgeCase

Cyrus wrote: »

examples of this? key staff wont have an issue with housing, its more a problem for lower paid jobs.

Have a look at some of the recent reports from HR companies. They're hitting serious issues.

You'll end up with investment only in HQ and key staff level stuff. It's the thousands of mid and low level staff that slosh the money back into the economy by spending and into the state coffers by paying VAT and income taxes.

We benefit enormously from employment generation and spin off and you need the infrastructure; including housing, to do that. Otherwise you end up with a few glass box corporate HQs and senior management with the staff in Bratislava or Berlin.

Cyrus

EdgeCase wrote: »

Have a look at some of the recent reports from HR companies. They're hitting serious issues.

You'll end up with investment only in HQ and key staff level stuff. It's the thousands of mid and low level staff that slosh the money back into the economy by spending and into the state coffers by paying VAT and income taxes.

i thought you said the issue was key staff? so what is it?

dr.fuzzenstein

EdgeCase wrote: »

There's a massive problem with lack of new build and I don't think there's been a sufficiently sustained boom to bring people in the construction sector back.

I was talking to friends of mine who worked in construction in the past at various levels and they're not willing to come back to Ireland as they're happy where they've moved and don't yet trust the economy here to stay booming. The risk of Brexit dragging us under is particularly off putting.

I was also talking to polish friends of mine and they're all saying that 2008 frightened a lot of people into not wanting to put roots down here and also the polish economy is much better now than it was in the early 2000s and a lot of people wouldn't be so keen on moving.

Then you've got the sky high and low quality rental issue which is ironically feeding into the situation that construction workers don't want to move here.

Meanwhile the banks aren't really recovered and are using the boom to repair their 2008 losses and that's feeding into lack of credit and Argos trick aversion.

Then you've got abysmally poor planning and a boom in IT, fintech, finance and now an influx of companies fleeing Brexit and that's driving things higher.

You're not going to fix this problem by just encouraging older people to sell up.

1. Where would the go? There's nowhere reasonable to downsize to.

2. There's a massive problem with lack of studio apartments and 2-bed which is causing young professionals to house share in what should be suburban family homes. That's drying up supply very dramatically as it's very lucrative to rent multiple, well paid adults.

3. That lack of appropriate accomodation for single people and younger adults is driving their quality of life way down. It's ludicrous to have to house share in your adult phase of life. A single person or a couple without kids should be able to rent or buy a small home - most European cities have plenty of suitable apartments. The lack of that kind of accomodation is making Dublin, Cork and elsewhere very unattractive to some European professionals who IT companies are desperate to attract. It's not even that it's just unaffordable, in many cases it doesn't exist at all. You literally cannot find decent accomodation in Dublin at the moment and have to compromise with far lower living standards than you'd get in competing European cities.

4. There's very little building activity going on relative to demand. I see no state agencies or government ministers in a panic about that. It's like they've burnt their bridges the to the Fianna Fail tent era and nobody wants to be seen in proximity to developers or the banks.

My personal view is that we could be laying the foundations for another collapse by failing to tackle the housing crisis.

Fundamentally it's an infrastructure problem and it will start to impact FDI as companies won't want to locate to somwhere the has no housing.

Dublin and the smaller cities also do not have the allure of a mega-city like London, Paris or NYC which have vastly better cultural and social infrastructure and are often attractive to live in at any cost for some, so these issues are not going to be overlooked.

Dublin basically competes with the likes of Rotterdam, Brussels, mid sized German cities, Copenhagen and so on.

You see, your post is right on the money.
The idea to tax old people out of their homes instead of addressing all the above smacks of some 17 year old student, who just read Das Kapital and now knows exactly how the world works and has the answers to everything.
It's not emotive to call a fcuking stupid brainfart exactly that.
Nothing gets built and that MUST be addressed first. And usually what does get build is if sh*tty, sub-par quality compared to the rest of Europe, too small, badly planned, with no amenities and rents are absolutely ludicrous for what you get.

Also, start taxing companies if you want money!!!!
Not pensioners. That is simply being sh*tty purely for the sake of it. It's pure begrudgery. It's like wanting to key a brand new car because you can't afford it.
There are better ways than taking houses from OAPs.

EdgeCase

Cyrus wrote: »

i thought you said the issue was key staff? so what is it?

It depends what you call key staff?

You can have a mid sized office with well paid corporate accountants and treasury operations which will look enormous on paper in terms of revenue flow but will not create the kind of tech hub economy we seem to want to have in the cities.

The average person working at mid level in IT in particular is struggling with accomodation in Dublin at this stage; particularly if they're moving in from somewhere else and having to compete for the dregs of the market.

If you want the vibrancy and the spin offs you need the companies here for real and we have some of that at the moment. Otherwise we end up as a bigger version of Jersey - an accounting & finance center.

Having a sustainable housing and underlying economic model really shouldn't be a radical idea in an otherwise highly developed EU country.

Cyrus

EdgeCase wrote: »

It depends what you call key staff?

You can have a mid sized office with well paid corporate accountants and treasury operations which will look enormous on paper in terms of revenue flow but will not create the kind of tech hub economy we seem to want to have in the cities.

The average person working at mid level in IT in particular is struggling with accomodation in Dublin at this stage; particularly if they're moving in from somewhere else and having to compete for the dregs of the market.

If you want the vibrancy and the spin offs you need the companies here for real and we have some of that at the moment. Otherwise we end up as a bigger version of Jersey - an accounting & finance center.

you are changing your argument to suit a narrative.

average mid level IT arent key staff

EdgeCase

Cyrus wrote: »

you are changing your argument to suit a narrative.

average mid level IT arent key staff

You're hanging on one word which is loosely defined to try and somehow explain that everything is A-OK and are ignoring the blatantly obvious issues with accomodation.

The majority of staff in IT do not earn the kinds of saleries that would be needed to pay for good quality accomodation in Dublin and in many instances it doesn't exist anyway. At mid market level there isn't sufficient supply and the housing stock is largely totally inappropriate for the needs of those seeking to be accommodated.

There were reports talking about issues in recruitment during the week. I'm posting on an iPhone and I'm not able to go off and dig them out but by all means, have a Google around!

Cyrus

EdgeCase wrote: »

You're hanging on one word which is loosely defined to try and somehow explain that everything is A-OK and are ignoring the blatantly obvious issues with accomodation.

The majority of staff in IT do not earn the kinds of saleries that would be needed to pay for good quality accomodation in Dublin and in many instances it doesn't exist anyway. At mid market level there isn't sufficient supply and the housing stock is largely totally inappropriate for the needs of those seeking to be accommodated.

There were reports talking about issues in recruitment during the week. I'm posting on an iPhone and I'm not able to go off and dig them out but by all means, have a Google around!

i never said everything is A OK, i just said losing key staff isnt an issue, it seems that you now agree.

EdgeCase

Just as example of concerns being flagged by big business:

https://www.morganmckinley.ie/article/employment-monitor-may-2018-press-release

"We are starting to see a reluctance creeping in for talent in some sectors to relocate to Ireland, most notably in technology, because of the message they are hearing and reading about, on the lack of supply of appropriate standard of accommodation to rent or buy on the market. This needs an urgent solution and communication of same to ensure we instil confidence in this international talent community that Ireland remains the best place to live, work and progress their career”

That kind of thing is an impediment to recruiting and retaining key staff.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Theoretical question for those who think inheritance tax should be abolished: If the government were to propose a 75% tax on all unearned income (CAT, CGT, DIRT, etc), while abolishing income tax and USC completely, would you be in support of that?

Effectively you get to keep everything you earn today and the state will just collect tax when you're dead and don't need it any more. That's a fair deal, right?

Absolutely no way. CAT is the worst of all and should be totally abolished for family transfers, I fully maintain that once a money, land or property is within a family that it should free to move around without any taxation the same as between married couple. DIRT is also a rotten tax and should be aboilished or reduced single digit figures at worst. CGT is way too high a rate but I don't have an issue with it being there.

I also don't disagree with income taxes but they are just far too high in this country, the higher rate of tax is way too high (incl prsi, usc etc) and kicks in far too soon.

So to summerise, abolish CAT completely for the Group A threashold and have very generous tax free amounts and a much lower tax rate when tax is due for group B and C. Reduce dirt to single digits, reduce CGT rate and reduce the higher rate of tax and increase the threashold where it kicks in to much higher amounts.

This is before we even get into our very high rate of VAT, VRT which is another abomination (I mean I'm looking at cars in the UK at the moment and some are 13 to 15k euro more expensive here as that's how much the VRT is), our crazy excise duty on alcohol (with drink set to get more expensive with minimum unit pricing) etc etc.

Ireland is a very highly taxed country with a high cost of living claiming otherwise is nonsense.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

If we all did like Nox and doggedly looked at any way possible to avoid tax, there’d be a shortfall.

Maybe you aren't very well informed on this stuff but most people do try to minimise their tax bills. Why do you think there are so many tax accounts and practices fully dedicated to tax. Also there is no "doggedly" about it, minimising tax using legal means is very much allowed and only a fool wouldn't do it.

Cyrus

EdgeCase wrote: »

Just as example of concerns being flagged by big business:

https://www.morganmckinley.ie/article/employment-monitor-may-2018-press-release

"We are starting to see a reluctance creeping in for talent in some sectors to relocate to Ireland, most notably in technology, because of the message they are hearing and reading about, on the lack of supply of appropriate standard of accommodation to rent or buy on the market. This needs an urgent solution and communication of same to ensure we instil confidence in this international talent community that Ireland remains the best place to live, work and progress their career”

That kind of thing is an impediment to recruiting and retaining key staff.

its one line in a press release from a recruiter, again it wont be key staff if its Morgan McKinley speaking to them.

EdgeCase

Cyrus wrote: »

its one line in a press release from a recruiter, again it wont be key staff if its Morgan McKinley speaking to them.

Sure it's grand!
Let's not bother even discussing it like we did back in 2007 and shut down all critical commentary. That worked out so well!

Damn canaries showing up mine problems!

Cyrus

EdgeCase wrote: »

Sure it's grand!
Let's not bother even discussing it like we did back in 2007. That worked out so well!
Damn canaries showing up mine problems!

yes its definitely 2007 again

except it isnt

and i stand by everything i have said.

EdgeCase

So do I! We don't agree.

Cyrus

EdgeCase wrote: »

So do I! We don't agree.

well you cant really, we have already ascertained that its not key staff that are reluctant to move her, you should concede that at least,

linking a mid level recruiter to support the claim merely strengthens my argument.

seamus

Rayan Gorgeous Apostrophe wrote: »

Absolutely no way. CAT is the worst of all and should be totally abolished for family transfers...

Yeah, you see that's not what I asked you.

Instead you went on a rant where you proposed that the government massively reduce its income without proposing any alternative sources of funding.

I'll ask again; Paschal comes out tomorrow as says, "We've done the sums. If we abolish all income taxes, but raise all unearned income taxes to 75% with no thresholds, then our tax take will be unaffected".
So from your point of view, you now get to take home all of your pay, all of your services funded by the state are exactly the same as they were before, and you still earn interest and capital gains on your assets and savings, albeit at a very reduced level.

Would you be in favour of this? If not, why not? Why would you prefer to pay income tax?

Ireland is a very highly taxed country

Evidence please.

Amirani

Rayan Gorgeous Apostrophe wrote: »

Absolutely no way. CAT is the worst of all and should be totally abolished for family transfers, I fully maintain that once a money, land or property is within a family that it should free to move around without any taxation the same as between married couple. DIRT is also a rotten tax and should be aboilished or reduced single digit figures at worst. CGT is way too high a rate but I don't have an issue with it being there.

I also don't disagree with income taxes but they are just far too high in this country, the higher rate of tax is way too high (incl prsi, usc etc) and kicks in far too soon.

So to summerise, abolish CAT completely for the Group A threashold and have very generous tax free amounts and a much lower tax rate when tax is due for group B and C. Reduce dirt to single digits, reduce CGT rate and reduce the higher rate of tax and increase the threashold where it kicks in to much higher amounts.

This is before we even get into our very high rate of VAT, VRT which is another abomination (I mean I'm looking at cars in the UK at the moment and some are 13 to 15k euro more expensive here as that's how much the VRT is), our crazy excise duty on alcohol (with drink set to get more expensive with minimum unit pricing) etc etc.

Ireland is a very highly taxed country with a high cost of living claiming otherwise is nonsense.

It's already been shown to you that statistically, Ireland is not a high tax country. I don't know why you keep saying that it is without any statistical evidence whatsoever. You're just making baseless statements.

Despite these facts, all your above post recommends is to reduce a whole load of taxes. That's just economic illiteracy.

Assetbacked

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

You see, your post is right on the money.
The idea to tax old people out of their homes instead of addressing all the above smacks of some 17 year old student, who just read Das Kapital and now knows exactly how the world works and has the answers to everything.
It's not emotive to call a fcuking stupid brainfart exactly that.
Nothing gets built and that MUST be addressed first. And usually what does get build is if sh*tty, sub-par quality compared to the rest of Europe, too small, badly planned, with no amenities and rents are absolutely ludicrous for what you get.

Also, start taxing companies if you want money!!!!
Not pensioners. That is simply being sh*tty purely for the sake of it. It's pure begrudgery. It's like wanting to key a brand new car because you can't afford it.
There are better ways than taking houses from OAPs.

No one said the solution wasn't to build more. Tear down that strawman and tend to your granny :rolleyes:

brightspark

Amirani wrote: »

It's already been shown to you that statistically, Ireland is not a high tax country. I don't know why you keep saying that it is without any statistical evidence whatsoever. You're just making baseless statement.

We may not be a high tax country, but most people who pay taxes receive very little in return.

We pay a lot for services that in many other countries are provided by the state.

EdgeCase

That history of relatively poor public services, particularly in health services, feeds into the politics of people preferring a tax cut to a services improvement because most of the population do not trust public services based on their track record.

How many of us really be willing to forgo private health insurance to pay higher social charges that would go into providing services that are delivered via the highly competent HSE?

Culturally it's quite different to somewhere like Denmark where state services are highly trusted to be good quality and reliable and people seem to feel they get good value for money by paying tax.

The Student

Amirani wrote: »

It's already been shown to you that statistically, Ireland is not a high tax country. I don't know why you keep saying that it is without any statistical evidence whatsoever. You're just making baseless statements.

Despite these facts, all your above post recommends is to reduce a whole load of taxes. That's just economic illiteracy.

I think one of the main gripes with people is the waste of tax payers money. You can actually reduce taxes and still raise the same revenue if you expand your tax base.

We again are falling into the trap of basing our Tax revenue on a small number of sources. Income Tax, corporation tax to name the two main sources of our tax take.

There is a disproportionate reliance on the middle income earners for our income tax take. All workers within the workforce should contribute to society irrespective of how much that is. If middle income lose their job then the tax take is gone. If the tax take is spread over a number of individuals the chances of all losing employment at the same time is reduced and therefore our tax take is not completely gone it is just reduced.

The system needs a radical overhaul but no one is willing to actually challenge the status quo. If we look at the recent presidential race when Peter Casey questioned why 6 brand new houses were not being utilized because the proposed residents wanted additional land for horses.

The Racist card was raised that he was being Racist. To even question which in my mind was a perfectly reasonable question and the media was all over the topic. I would expect a similar question of any situation where six brand new houses were lying idle irrespective of who the proposed tenants were to be.

We also have the issue of Ms Cash who has an income (from various social welfare allowances/payments) of circa €1k per week but yet she went on national media to highlight her plight.

We have some welfare recipients who are happy to play the system whereby they can "earn" more on social welfare then they can in gameful employment.

The numbers who voted for Peter Casey would appear to show a bubbling unrest within Ireland. Perhaps this vote was a protest vote. Perhaps this is how people feel in Ireland.

The system is broke and you can understand why tax payers see the above using and abusing the system while the decent hard working person, the sick the elderly are left on hospital waiting lists or are refused benefits even though they need them but don't know how to "play the system".

I don't particularly want to pay tax but I accept that there is a need to pay tax to have a functioning society. I do however have a major issue with not being able to question where that tax is spent without the fear of being labeled a racist, a bigot or picking on the vulnerable in society.

EdgeCase

The key challenge, certainly as I see it anyway, is to get the construction sector running at a level that can meet demand and to actually come up with some plans that make sense.

Dublin is refusing point blank to deal with the fact that it needs to go up rather than out and it needs to make high density dwelling both cost-effective from a development point of view and also attractive to live in.

We're still not doing apartments in a sensible way - all of the issues with poor quality, effectively unregulated management companies and lack of control by property owners in developments is really detrimental to the perception of apartment living. It would be an an attractive prospect, if it were done right and at present it absolutely is not.

I don't understand why we can't just talk a look at the most progressive models elsewhere, pick then best bits and implement them. Instead, we've typically handed over control of apartment complexes effectively to the developer or management company and there's no guarantee of quality of service or maintenance or reasonable costs.

While it's starting at some level, I think we do need commercially developed and commercially let large scale developments. The private rental sector has a role, but it's not really of the scale or capable of meeting demand.

Also, the profile of the population has changed. You've a lot more single people and couples who have a reasonable expectation to be able to get something in Dublin that would be equivalent to Brussels, Rotterdam, Lyon, Bordeaux, Copenhagen or similar cities. At present, they're not able to do that as there simply isn't that kind of quality of apartment in existence, or at least very few examples of it and I think that's where you would begin to solve it with large scale commercial developments.

Also we don't need to just sell out to vulture funds and venture capitalists from abroad. There's absolutely no reason why we couldn't see Irish development funds encouraging people (possibly even those who live in the developments) from investing and that is something that the state could incentivise. I mean what would be so bad about having a bunch of property funds that people could stably long term invest in and get a sensible return over a long period ? We've done it in the past going way back as far as the Dublin Artisans Dwellings (DAD Co.) and all of that and you get plenty of examples of Irish insurance funds investing in long term property e.g. even the ILAC centre gets its name from Irish Life Assurance Corporation who owned it.

We are locked into the notion that development has to be funded by an developer going out and getting a mortgage to create a smallish development that is then bought by individuals who might, or might not rent it out. That's no way to drive housing development on any kind of scale, particularly if there's a significant tightening of mortgage availability.

Cyrus

EdgeCase wrote: »

Instead, we've typically handed over control of apartment complexes effectively to the developer or management company and there's no guarantee of quality of service or maintenance or reasonable costs.

management co's are owned by the residents, what are you on about?

EdgeCase

Cyrus wrote: »

management co's are owned by the residents, what are you on about?

In a lot of cases in Ireland you had situations where the developer retained a lot of control over those companies and there's little or no accountability to those in the development.

Have a look at the threads on here over the last 10+ years about unresponsive and failing management companies and poor quality maintenance etc.

There needs to be a TOTAL reform of how the whole apartment setup here is operated and regulated before you will see it becoming an attractive alternative to individual housing.

For example, why is there no residents committee on some kind of statutory basis with actual powers? That is the case in quite a few other jurisdictions where apartment living is normal.

Cyrus

EdgeCase wrote: »

In a lot of cases in Ireland you had situations where the developer retained a lot of control over those companies and there's little or no accountability to those in the development.

Have a look at the threads on here over the last 10+ years about unresponsive and failing management companies and poor quality maintenance etc.

There needs to be a TOTAL reform of how the whole apartment setup here is operated and regulated before you will see it becoming an attractive alternative to individual housing.

but that has all been reformed, what you are asking for happened 7 years ago

EdgeCase

Cyrus wrote: »

but that has all been reformed, what you are asking for happened 7 years ago

Well, based on the experiences of most people I know who've bought or lived in apartments here they wouldn't do it again due to how those system operated or didn't and that attitude that apartments are only ever a short term step on the ladder seems to still haunt the whole sector.

Just minor issues like when I rented in Dublin, we spent 4 months with the main door lock on our building failing to work. I contacted the landlord who contacted the management company who did nothing about it. We kept contacting the landlord every week as it was never resolved. In the end we had people wandering into the building and someone finding needles in the foyer and this was in a pretty expensive part of Dublin.

Then we had endless issues with bins and common areas not being maintained. The apartments were fine but the common areas were frankly disgusting. You'd be embarrassed bringing people over to visit as it looked like you lived in some kind of squalor.

Then when we ordered cable broadband, UPC couldn't deliver it as the wiring in the building was too old. We contacted the management company who refused point blank to cooperate with UPC on upgrading, despite all sorts of reasonable offers being made. Then instead we were offered some kind of weird deal with their preferred broadband provider which was next to unusable. In the end I had to use mobile broadband with an antenna stuck to the window with a suction cup - in the middle of Dublin.

That's largely why I would never buy or rent an apartment in Ireland. The experience was awful.

I would contrast that to living in Brussels where I had absolutely no issues at all. Spacious apartment, great amenities, well maintained and no need to spend hours on the phone and banging out emails to get basic things maintained. They were just done properly.

Ireland's got plenty of positives but when it comes to health and housing, it's an absolute basket case and what's worse is that it tends to be in denial about that too, certainly at any kind of official or vested interest level and even in media commentary at times.

If you'd these kinds of issues in health and housing in most countries there'd be riots.

A bit like a developing world country when it comes to things like health and housing here a lot of structures are correct on paper, but in realty are totally dysfunctional.

There's no point in pretending that Ireland's housing system works when it's plainly obvious that it doesn't.

Why defend the indefensible? It's a broken system that needs to be changed. All we're getting is a load of waffle from the state and little or no action. That's been the case for years.

Then you get the whataboutery that pulls up some example like the traveller housing. Yes, that was a problem, but it's not indicative of the major issues that are plaguing the sector - i.e. no supply and abysmal quality in high pressure areas and all sorts of systems that look great on paper but aren't actually implemented or enforced.

The simple issue is that under the current system a very significant % of the population cannot afford to house themselves and another very significant % are housing themselves in totally substandard accommodation e.g. adults sharing suburban homes without adequate privacy and all of that. I mean the conditions might be better, but it's more or less the same concept of subdividing large family homes that went on during the tenement era. It's stressful and inadequate accommodation. These are groups of strangers, not families.

Cyrus

EdgeCase wrote: »

Well, based on the experiences of most people I know who've bought or lived in apartments here they wouldn't do it again due to how those system operated or didn't and that attitude that apartments are only ever a short term step on the ladder seems to still haunt the whole sector.

Just minor issues like when I rented in Dublin, we spent 4 months with the main door lock on our building failing to work. I contacted the landlord who contacted the management company who did nothing about it. We kept contacting the landlord every week as it was never resolved. In the end we had people wandering into the building and someone finding needles in the foyer and this was in a pretty expensive part of Dublin.

Then we had endless issues with bins and common areas not being maintained. The apartments were fine but the common areas were frankly disgusting. You'd be embarrassed bringing people over to visit as it looked like you lived in some kind of squalor.

Then when we ordered cable broadband, UPC couldn't deliver it as the wiring in the building was too old. We contacted the management company who refused point blank to cooperate with UPC on upgrading, despite all sorts of reasonable offers being made. Then instead we were offered some kind of weird deal with their preferred broadband provider which was next to unusable. In the end I had to use mobile broadband with an antenna stuck to the window with a suction cup - in the middle of Dublin.

That's largely why I would never buy or rent an apartment in Ireland. The experience was awful.

I would contrast that to living in Brussels where I had absolutely no issues at all. Spacious apartment, great amenities, well maintained and no need to spend hours on the phone and banging out emails to get basic things maintained. They were just done properly.

Ireland's got plenty of positives but when it comes to health and housing, it's an absolute basket case and what's worse is that it tends to be in denial about that too, certainly at any kind of official or vested interest level and even in media commentary at times.

If you'd these kinds of issues in health and housing in most countries there'd be riots.

your anecdotes aside, the legislation and framework is in place that you want to see, if a mangement co isnt performing to the required standard then sack the agent and get a new one, the owners can do what they want within reason.

if you are renting its a different story, but thats where you deal with your landlord.

there are plenty of Spacious apartment, great amenities, well maintained and no need to spend hours on the phone and banging out emails to get basic things maintained in ireland too, i owned for about 10 years.

Cyrus

EdgeCase wrote: »

W

Why defend the indefensible? It's a broken system that needs to be changed. All we're getting is a load of waffle from the state and little or no action. That's been the case for years.

the exact thing you are moaning about has been legislated for 7 years ago

EdgeCase

Cyrus wrote: »

the exact thing you are moaning about has been legislated for 7 years ago

Again: paper, paper, and more paper and the realities on the ground do not reflect the legislation.

When you're talking about long term rental accommodation here there's no real long lease options and there's a huge exposure to small time investors and light-touch / no regulation:

How many properties here are ever inspected?
How many inspectors exist?
What enforcement of standards ever happens other than when there's some mess that's ended up in the RTB. There's no proactive work done at all. It's only ever complaints based and often the outcome is compensation after the incident happened, rather than any kind of attempt to prevent issues ever occurring by enforcing adequate standards.