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Grand Hotel in Wicklow to be used as direct provision centre

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    #62
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,065 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I have removed a post with unsubstantiated allegations.

    In general this discussion is veering widely off the remit of a discussion on Wicklow. Please keep the discussion more relevant. If you want to discuss migration, politics in Italy etc there are more relevant fora on boards.ie

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #63
    antietam1
    Registered Users Posts: 359 ✭✭antietam1


    murpho999 wrote: »
    As suspected you cannot back up anything you say with facts or evidence when asked.

    I can give links to fake marriages and Kenyans passing themselves off as Somalians and so on.
    But your attitude is that's what poor people do.
    Also you say people don't lightly decide to leave home, for many of our migrants home is still there and they regularly go back to it.
    Also you willfully ignored that I stated genuine refugees are fine, we can't all be as nice you and welcome all of the 3 billion or so who would be better off here.


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    #64
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Baybay wrote: »
    Not over the last few days. Over the last few years.

    ....and ⅓ of the asylum seekers are here already!

    The HSE issues / lack of GPs experienced by 10,500 people in the town can not be appreciably worsened by an increase of less than 1%.

    This supposed impact on “services” is a red herring.


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    #65
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,669 ✭✭✭storker


    recedite wrote: »
    They had a nice a carvery there alright,

    I'm quite fond of their Thai Red Curry.
    ...where I can keep an eye on Sammy the Seal while I'm eating. There's no finer fella in Wickla than Sammy, we should elect him instead of the politicians we have now.

    Apparently he's all loved up now and sometimes has his "bird" with him. :D


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    #66
    Working class heroes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,581 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    storker wrote: »
    I'm quite fond of their Thai Red Curry.



    Apparently he's all loved up now and sometimes has his "bird" with him. :D

    Yep, she's quite the catch!

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



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    #67
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    Working class heroes wrote: »
    Again, nonsense.
    My GP is in Wicklow town and I have never been waiting more than a day for an appointment.
    There are a few practices in Wicklow, I respectfully suggest you move from yours.

    If you know a doctor in Wicklow taking new patients let me know. We have to go to greystones to see doctor. Moved to Wicklow town 3 years ago and not one of the doctors in wicklow would take new patients let alone give me an appointment.


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    #68
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    We all know that ratio of inhabitants to doctors is identical regardless of whether the hotel is full of tourists or asylum seekers. I don’t recall people complaining that they didn’t have access to a doctor because the Grand Hotel was full of guests.

    Not so long ago we were appalled by the “No dogs, no Irish!” signs in the UK.
    What short memories we have.


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    #69
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    2011 wrote: »
    Yes, I understand your views on this policy. A regional forum is not really the place to debate government policy. I am not debating that with you at all. You can take it that your view on asylum seekers is clearly understood.
    Despite the fact that you quoted my post in full you have not answered my question.
    What exactly was your question again? It seemed like you were saying "this is going to happen whether anyone likes it or not, so what is your objection?"
    Because to me that is not really a question, its a statement; "resistance is futile".

    2011 wrote: »
    Were the hotel guests ever vetted? Were they subjected to a curfew?
    Tourists rarely cause trouble, and if they did, they could be deported immediately.


    Asylum seekers have a very different reputation. How about this guy who was in Dublin, where is he now?
    A VIOLENT rapist who brutally attacked a woman in St Stephen’s Green has had his visa renewed because authorities are not allowed to deport him. Bereket Mekonnen (25) received a seven-year jail term after being found guilty in 2007 of raping a 42-year-old woman in the city centre park in August 2005.
    However, following his release, the Eritrean national cannot be deported home under EU and UN conventions as he is from a war-torn country.


    I already said the only hotel in the town should only be used for paying guests. Its in a prime central location, and tourists bring money to other businesses in the town.
    Even if we wanted these seekers, they should be accommodated on the outskirts of town.
    Speaking of skirts, there are a couple of schools and tennis courts in the vicinity of the hotel. The experience in other countries is that western styles of dress have proved too much of a temptation for young migrant men coming from countries in which the girls are treated as their personal property.
    In Germany
    A school in Bavaria has sent a letter home to parents warning them not to let their daughters wear revealing blouses or short skirts, because emergency accommodation for refugees has been set up next to the gym.
    Are similar warnings to be issued to the local schools?
    In France the courts take a lenient view of these "cultural misunderstandings".
    A refugee from Bangladesh was tried by a French court and was acquitted of the rape of a high school girl. The verdict was handed down yesterday.
    The young man also sexually assaulted another young girl. He was charged with both cases but acquitted of the rape.
    According to the defense the refugee has ‘different cultural norms’ or ‘cultural codes’ and could have misinterpreted the contact with the girl.
    How would a Wicklow court treat an incident such as this?


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    #70
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    recedite wrote: »
    What exactly was your question again?

    Given that asylum seekers will be catered for in Ireland righty or wrongly, what is your issue with the Grand Hotel being used for direct provision?


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    #71
    Working class heroes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,581 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Jimjay wrote: »
    If you know a doctor in Wicklow taking new patients let me know. We have to go to greystones to see doctor. Moved to Wicklow town 3 years ago and not one of the doctors in wicklow would take new patients let alone give me an appointment.

    Sorry, I just don’t believe that.

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



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    #72
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Mod note:
    @ recedite: There are forums on Boards.ie to debate government policy, this is not one of them. You can discuss the suitability of the hotel as a direct provision centre but not the policy of allowing asylum seekers into Ireland on this forum.
    I would think that this forum would be a better home for your debate.


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    #73
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    2011 wrote: »
    Given that asylum seekers will be catered for in Ireland righty or wrongly, what is your issue with the Grand Hotel being used for direct provision?
    First off, that is not a given. We have seen in places like Italy and Austria that when the people wanted a change of policy, they changed their politicians.


    Secondly, even if it was a given, objecting to something on a national basis does not preclude a person from objecting to the same thing when it arrives on a local basis. In fact they would be a hypocrite if they suddenly ceased all objections when it arrived in their own back yard. It would be a sort of "reverse nimbyism".


    Thirdly, I gave reasons why this specific town center located hotel should not be given over to this change of use. And BTW I note that some sneaky legislation was recently enacted making a "change of use" from tourist or community accommodation to "direct provision" accommodation exempt from planning permission, which would have been required (rightly) before.

    And I won't waste my time posting any more on this thread if my posts are being deleted as fast as I can write them.


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    #74
    Car expert
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 35 ✭Car expert


    2011 wrote: »
    Not so long ago we were appalled by the “No dogs, no Irish!” signs in the UK.
    What short memories we have.

    Different altogether. You need to pull your head out of the clouds and see the reality.


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    #75
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    recedite wrote: »
    First off, that is not a given.

    Current policy is a given. Future national policy is a different matter and as stated can be discussed on another forum.

    Thirdly, I gave reasons why this specific town center located hotel should not be given over to this change of use.

    That can be summarised as the owner will make a large profit and there will be a greater shortage of doctors if we replace 100 tourists with 100 asylum seekers along with some thinly veiled racism.
    And BTW I note that some sneaky legislation was recently enacted making a "change of use" from tourist or community accommodation to "direct provision" accommodation exempt from planning permission, which would have been required (rightly) before.

    So did I, take it to an appropriate forum.
    And I won't waste my time posting any more on this thread if my posts are being deleted as fast as I can write them.

    So far none of your posts have been edited or deleted from this thread. Please do me the courtesy of admitting that.


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    #76
    Working class heroes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,581 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Car expert wrote: »
    Different altogether. You need to pull your head out of the clouds and see the reality.

    Different how?
    Shoe on the other foot?

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



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    #77
    Johnnycanyon
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnnycanyon


    I fail to see why people from Pakistan are seeking refuge.. Having visited friends there several times I have never seen or experienced anything that might cause their citizens to want to flee.. Maybe I was just in the wrong part..


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    #78
    Working class heroes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,581 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Johnnycanyon wrote: »
    I fail to see why people from Pakistan are seeking refuge.. Having visited friends there several times I have never seen or experienced anything that might cause their citizens to want to flee.. Maybe I was just in the wrong part..

    Obviously...
    I went on a scouting mission there looking for players for my local cricket team and the things I saw would make your toe nails curl. Absolutely horrific stuff.


    Would you say my post is as believable than yours?

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



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    #79
    Johnnycanyon
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnnycanyon


    Working class heroes wrote: »
    Obviously...

    So what did I miss?


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    #80
    Working class heroes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,581 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Johnnycanyon wrote: »
    So what did I miss?

    Post edited.

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



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    #81
    Johnnycanyon
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnnycanyon


    Working class heroes wrote: »
    Obviously...
    I went on a scouting mission there looking for players for my local cricket team and the things I saw would make your toe nails curl. Absolutely horrific stuff.


    Would you say my post is as believable than yours?
    What do you mean by believable? Do you think I am making this up?


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    #82
    Working class heroes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,581 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    Johnnycanyon wrote: »
    What do you mean by believable? Do you think I am making this up?

    Yes.

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



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    #83
    Johnnycanyon
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnnycanyon


    Working class heroes wrote: »
    Yes.
    Firstly I am not a liar, and do not like being called one.I have nothing against refugees fleeing for their lives and coming to Ireland.I passed no comment on the Nigerians staying in the Grand Hotel as I know nothing about their status.. I lived in Birmingham years ago and this is where I met my Pakistani friends who invited me to their country,so this is what I based my honest and truthful post on.


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    #84
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    Working class heroes wrote: »
    Sorry, I just don’t believe that.

    Yes they must have alll being lying when i spent a day going in to each and every one of them. To be turned away. I couldnt believe it either but asking around it is fairly common knowledge. And by the way there was a seperate discussion about this previously (Sorry this is off topic as has nothing to do with the Grand Hotel).


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    #85
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    2011 wrote: »
    So far none of your posts have been edited or deleted from this thread. Please do me the courtesy of admitting that.
    Not true. Post #72 which was of local relevance was deleted and replaced with the mod warning.


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    #86
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Working class heroes wrote: »
    Obviously...
    I went on a scouting mission there looking for players for my local cricket team ..
    There's a big difference between a displaced war refugee fleeing a country, and a guy who is lured away from his home country by the promise of becoming a big sports star on some mediocre foreign sports team that has more money than talent.


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    #87
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    recedite wrote: »
    Not true. Post #72 which was of local relevance was deleted and replaced with the mod warning.

    Nope.
    Post #72 is my post and it does not replace any other post. Only one post has been edited or deleted by a mod on this thread. Not only was that not your post but this action was not by me.


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    #88
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    2011 wrote: »
    Nope.
    Post #72 is my post and it does not replace any other post. Only one post has been edited or deleted by a mod on this thread. Not only was that not your post but this action was not by me.
    OK well I see #69 is there now, so I apologise if I was mistaken and it was never deleted.


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    #89
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    recedite wrote: »
    OK well I see #69 is there now, so I apologise if I was mistaken and it was never deleted.

    Apology accepted, I can assure you that it was never deleted.

    As I have posted so much in this thread I thought it would not be fair for me to edit or delete posts.

    You have made your view on asylum seekers and government policy on them abundantly clear so lets leave it at that.


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    #90
    2013Lara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭2013Lara


    2011 wrote: »
    We all know that ratio of inhabitants to doctors is identical regardless of whether the hotel is full of tourists or asylum seekers. I don’t recall people complaining that they didn’t have access to a doctor because the Grand Hotel was full of guests.

    So tourists and permanent residents need the equivalent medical attention within the town is what you are saying? Tourists may need an emergency appointment. Asylum seekers will need a permanent GP. Go ahead and ring around the GPs and see who is willing to take 1 new family, let alone 100 people.


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    #91
    2013Lara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭2013Lara


    recedite wrote: »
    What exactly was your question again? It seemed like you were saying "this is going to happen whether anyone likes it or not, so what is your objection?"
    Because to me that is not really a question, its a statement; "resistance is futile".


    Tourists rarely cause trouble, and if they did, they could be deported immediately.


    Asylum seekers have a very different reputation. How about this guy who was in Dublin, where is he now?



    I already said the only hotel in the town should only be used for paying guests. Its in a prime central location, and tourists bring money to other businesses in the town.
    Even if we wanted these seekers, they should be accommodated on the outskirts of town.
    Speaking of skirts, there are a couple of schools and tennis courts in the vicinity of the hotel. The experience in other countries is that western styles of dress have proved too much of a temptation for young migrant men coming from countries in which the girls are treated as their personal property.
    In Germany Are similar warnings to be issued to the local schools?
    In France the courts take a lenient view of these "cultural misunderstandings".

    How would a Wicklow court treat an incident such as this?

    Cultural differences are most definitely something feared by any woman I have spoken to, and any woman with daughters I have spoken to within the town.

    The only people I have seen so far outside the grand are men standing on the steps smoking.


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