Should we celebrate Thanksgiving in Ireland

Floppybits

Why, did pilgrims land here and strike some deal with the natives that we need to give thanks for?

Badly Drunk Boy

Wibbs wrote: »

Quite the number do B. Certainly with accent intonations that are American. A mate of mine's ten year old daughter and all her mates speak with very strong American/mid Atlantic accents. More subtle versions are to be found all over the place. Though it tends to be more among young women. Like I was saying earlier words like "Mom" are very common, nigh on ubiquitous and though some insist it's from the Irish and maybe in some tiny enclave of the Gaeltacht it is/was, but try find anyone who was Irish saying or writing "mom" before the mid late 90's.

I realise that. I just wanted him to admit it! :pac:

I try to do my bit to fight it. My nieces and nephew (the eldest being ten) constantly use Americanisms so I do my best to antagonise them.

"Let me use your flashlight!".
"I don't have one, just this torch. I can give you a torch but not a flashlight."

Recently, I heard a panellist on The Tonight Show on TV3 Virgin Media 1 talking about 'candy-coating' something. I think even the Americans use the term 'sugar-coating'. (They weren't discussing confectionery.)

Electric Sheep

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Actually this already happens - my friends church does a harvest festival every year where the church is decorated in autumnal colours and seasonal fruits (which are then given to the local school) and there's a service of thanksgiving for the harvest and the farmers of the country. It's quite lovely and a very old tradition. Don't see the need for a particular holiday though country-wide to celebrate one profession.

I believe the original American thanksgiving was an attempt to recreate the English "Harvest Home" celebration. As is Canadian Thanksgiving.

A "Thanksgiving" celebration of harvest has nothing to do with turkey. It's just part of the meal in North America.

jimgoose

blackbox wrote: »

Most Protestant churches (perhaps not in Dublin) do a Harvest Thanksgiving Sunday. Ancient tradition, not a fixed date and no connection to USA.

Most of the rural Church of Ireland outfits do a Harvest Festival sort of thing, yes.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

No, of course not, OP. It commemorates a happening in American history.

Though I do find people who complain excessively about Americanisms utterly tiresome. We have loan words from many languages. There are lots of great American phrases. Why is it so bad to adopts ones you like? Especially as American-English started to develop at a time when the English language was far from standardised, even in Britain. It just developed differently, what with the countries being an ocean apart.

Wibbs

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Though I do find people who complain excessively about Americanisms utterly tiresome. We have loan words from many languages. There are lots of great American phrases. Why is it so bad to adopts ones you like?

Nothing at all ODB. I use some myself. But when near overnight some start sounding like nasally mid Atlantic cheesy 80's DJ's it kinda makes my hair itch(the rising inflection at the end of sentences... grrr). It's akin to the earlier trend with some where they tried to ape received British accents and it sounded just as false, try hard and cringe.

MrCostington

Saw this thread yesterday and remembered it after seeing this on the RTE homepage

"A perfect Thanksgiving feast, in three recipes " (ffs)
https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/food/2018/1121/1012518-a-perfect-thanksgiving-feast-in-three-recipes/

And beside "Another Operation Transformation leader has been revealed " .

With the obesity problem we have, we need more of the latter and less of the former.

So, I vote no the the OPs question!

While I'm here, just got a work email yesterday with someone trying to "reach out" to someone else (all Irish people) - can we stop this now, please (have seen it on boards too).

Anyway, have to go now, McDonalds are at the door with my breakfast

Badly Drunk Boy

On the Ireland AM news this morning, they had a piece on Thanksgiving, the amount of people travelling for it (not from Ireland, by the way), with some footage/interviews from airports. What's the deal?

(I know...it's my own fault for watching it, but it's handy when I'm getting ready for work.)

MrCostington

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

On the Ireland AM news this morning, they had a piece on Thanksgiving, the amount of people travelling for it (not from Ireland, by the way), with some footage/interviews from airports. What's the deal?

Really? I think the retail industry must lobby the media to run such stories. All joking aside, I bet it will happen, just like black friday did.

Peregrinus

Wibbs wrote: »

We have, or had one already. Lughnasadh(in August/September IIRC). Though not exactly widely celebrated.

You're thinking of Samhain.

Why did you think we mark it by distributing fruit and nuts? Because the harvest is in, and we have plenty of food.

The J Stands for Jay

Should we celebrate the day a of people from one foreign country arrived in another foreign country and proceeded to attempt to eradicate the indigenous population? That's a no from me.

OU812

McGaggs wrote: »

Should we celebrate the day a of people from one foreign country arrived in another foreign country and proceeded to attempt to eradicate the indigenous population? That's a no from me.

It’s not celebrating the day they arrived but don’t let the facts get in the way of an internet rant.

Graces7

blackbox wrote: »

Most Protestant churches (perhaps not in Dublin) do a Harvest Thanksgiving Sunday. Ancient tradition, not a fixed date and no connection to USA.

It was always one of my favourite Sundays, Harvest Festival, child and adult. . Always yearned to make the Harvest Loaf, but of course there was always a lady who had always done that.... YOU know.

Then when I lived on a North sea island, they had never heard of the Harvest Bread!!! YIPPEE!! That ornate loaf travelled all round the isles as they had never seen the like!

At some churches in my adult life, we would fill baskets with the produce and food given and take it to old folk in the parish..

I miss all that! The sights and aromas in the church... always a sheaf of wheat...

Graces7

I think of US Thanksgiving as the time when the smaller frozen turkeys arrive in Dunne's! Not expensive..

Pherekydes

Bears @ Lions at the civilised hour of 5:30. What's not to like? :pac:

EdgeCase

incentsitive wrote: »

Given Black Friday has been taken on in Ireland in a similar way to Love Day in The Simpsons, should we celebrate Thanksgiving too?
.......

Black Friday is a relatively recent phenomenon in the USA too. It's not an official holiday just a retailer thing. The term didn't really exist until the 1980s and didn't become a mainstream thing until a few years ago.

There's a traditional busy shopping day after Thanks Giving.

We should really expand Culchie Shopping Day into a major international retail holiday.

Lackey

What’s not to like about Black Friday/ cyber Monday?
Get my shopping done at cheaper prices ...get fu&k all time off at Christmas so I suppose I use it as an aim to finish up the shopping and enjoy the rare days that I get off.
Don’t think we need thanksgiving as well though.

ceadaoin.

Live in the US but don't really do thanksgiving. I'm making roast beef tomorrow and then I'll buy the massively reduced turkey and ham after Thanksgiving and keep them in the freezer for Christmas

Graces7

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Live in the US but don't really do thanksgiving. I'm making roast beef tomorrow and then I'll buy the massively reduced turkey and ham after Thanksgiving and keep them in the freezer for Christmas

Great minds!

incentsitive

Lackey wrote: »

What’s not to like about Black Friday/ cyber Monday?
Get my shopping done at cheaper prices ...get fu&k all time off at Christmas so I suppose I use it as an aim to finish up the shopping and enjoy the rare days that I get off.
Don’t think we need thanksgiving as well though.

Same thing as not to like about post-Christmas sales. Tat which was overpriced for a few weeks flogged off to gullible individuals.

seamus

Badly Drunk Boy wrote: »

On the Ireland AM news this morning, they had a piece on Thanksgiving, the amount of people travelling for it (not from Ireland, by the way), with some footage/interviews from airports. What's the deal?

It's a bigger deal in the US than other festivals because it's shared cultural event.

The US has a greater diversity of religions than most of Europe - not just Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Christian, but also sub-sects of these. There are many Christian groups for whom Christmas is period of humility and prayer, not of celebration.

So Xmas is not the same inclusive, everyone-celebrate event that it is in Europe. It's big, but the whole country doesn't shut down for a week.

Thanksgiving though is completely irreligious, it's a winter(ish) festival that can be shared across all Americans, so it's become a huge deal.

Signore Fancy Pants

OU812 wrote: »

I’ll happily celebrate Cinco de Mayo. Margaritas & Enchalidas??? Where do I sign up?

Ah yes, the celebration of the 5 mayonnaise's.

Im in.

Boom_Bap

Chewbacca wrote: »

Ah yes, the celebration of the 5 mayonnaise's.

Im in.

Bacon flavoured Mayo mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

EdgeCase

seamus wrote: »

It's a bigger deal in the US than other festivals because it's shared cultural event.

The US has a greater diversity of religions than most of Europe - not just Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Christian, but also sub-sects of these. There are many Christian groups for whom Christmas is period of humility and prayer, not of celebration.

So Xmas is not the same inclusive, everyone-celebrate event that it is in Europe. It's big, but the whole country doesn't shut down for a week.

Thanksgiving though is completely irreligious, it's a winter(ish) festival that can be shared across all Americans, so it's become a huge deal.

It's pretty profoundly religious and makes references to taking God and deep links to the 'pilgrims' i.e. puritans who'd arrived in the colonies. As it was described by George Washington: "a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favours of Almighty God." Or Kennedy: "Over three centuries ago, our forefathers in Virginia and in Massachusetts, far from home in a lonely wilderness, set aside a time of thanksgiving. On the appointed day, they gave reverent thanks for their safety, for the health of their children, for the fertility of their fields, for the love which bound them together, and for the faith which united them with their God."

There's a lot of national mythology around it that's been built up over the years but it's far from some kind of secular statement of American identity and it has little or nothing to do with African-Americans' history or with the history of other Americans (i.e. the vast majority) who do not trace their origins back to the Mayflower stuff.

The First Peoples / Native Americans generally don't see it from the same perspective as those who'd trace their origins back to the Mayflower.
it doesn't sit all that comfortably - I mean it's in someways a bit like the way the Irish see Oliver Cromwell as a brutal genocidal maniac, while the English seem to only see the positive side of him being the dawn of modern Britain and a no-nonsense reformer. Two sides of the same coin and two very different perspectives.

It's not a holiday that has any real cultural relevance, echoes or parallels in Ireland.

BeerWolf

Sure, why not.

Let's call it Pilgrim's Bounty instead though.

EdgeCase

Could we get Wednesday Addams to organise the celebrations though... for historical accuracy ?

Graces7

Boom_Bap wrote: »

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Pumpkin Pie mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Now THAT is clever... I have a spare pumpkin here?

Graces7

seamus wrote: »

It's a bigger deal in the US than other festivals because it's shared cultural event.

The US has a greater diversity of religions than most of Europe - not just Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Christian, but also sub-sects of these. There are many Christian groups for whom Christmas is period of humility and prayer, not of celebration.

So Xmas is not the same inclusive, everyone-celebrate event that it is in Europe. It's big, but the whole country doesn't shut down for a week.

Thanksgiving though is completely irreligious, it's a winter(ish) festival that can be shared across all Americans, so it's become a huge deal.

There are here too, quietly in the background. Trust me on that ...

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

I think of US Thanksgiving as the time when the smaller frozen turkeys arrive in Dunne's! Not expensive..

Yep, they are in LIDL already... E8.99!

imme

Thanksgiving is a national\ religious national holiday in America.

Why would it be celebrated by people in Ireland.

What about Diwali and ramadan, what a silly idea.

Black Friday is a sales gimmick.
How could you not see any of this.

Franz Von Peppercorn

seamus wrote: »

It's a bigger deal in the US than other festivals because it's shared cultural event.

The US has a greater diversity of religions than most of Europe - not just Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Christian, but also sub-sects of these. There are many Christian groups for whom Christmas is period of humility and prayer, not of celebration.

So Xmas is not the same inclusive, everyone-celebrate event that it is in Europe. It's big, but the whole country doesn't shut down for a week.

Thanksgiving though is completely irreligious, it's a winter(ish) festival that can be shared across all Americans, so it's become a huge deal.

And not as commercial, as there’s no gift giving tradition.

That said commercially and culturally Christmas is still bigger. Think of the songs, movies and lights.

gidget

Below is an extract from a Native American's perspective of Thanksgiving or " Day of Mourning" as they would remember it as.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blogs/national-museum-american-indian/2016/11/27/do-american-indians-celebrate-thanksgiving/

Capt'n Midnight

I've always thought Thanksgiving was the defining American holiday.

Do the family stuff in November and once that's out of the way,
so the entirety of December can be about merchandise


Even the roots of Thanksgiving are not pretty. Half of the Puritans died, and the Wampanoag suffered even more from disease, war and slavery

RobertKK

Yes we should celebrate it.

https://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/how-pilgrims-were-saved-by-irish-ship-creating-first-thanksgiving

The facts of the first Thanksgiving meal may never be known, but some believe it to have been in celebration of a shipment of Irish food.

Goes on to say:

Writing in his book "The Annals of the Year 1631," the eminent 18th-century New England historian the Rev. Thomas Prince recorded:

“As the winter came on provisions are very scarce (in the Massachusetts Bay), and people necessitated to feed on clams and mussels and ground nuts and acorns, and those were got with much difficulty during the winter season… And many are the fears of the people that Mr Pierce, who was sent to Ireland for provisions, is either cast away or taken by the pirates. Upon this a day of fasting and prayer to God for relief is appointed (to be on the 6th of February). But God, who delights to appear in the greatest straits, works marvellously at this time; for on February 5th, the very day before the appointed fast, in comes the ship Lion, Mr. William Pierce, master, now arriving at Nantasket laden with provisions. Upon which joyful occasion the day is changed and ordered to be kept (on the 22nd) as a day of Thanksgiving.”

So a food shipment from Ireland when people in Massachusetts were suffering from hunger is recorded as having been the reason for the first thanksgiving.