O'Neill Gone - Next Rep Ireland Manager?

Soups123

Morrison J wrote: »

McCarthy doing great is not a negative. We'll still be in a better position than we are now. Isn't that why you hire a manager? To take you forward?

But that’s not the negative it’s that no matter how well he has done he’ll be let go because of the agreement. It’s absolute madness!

How can you not see that, no other club or country has ever done. Are FAI revolutionaries now?

The Talking Bread

It is bizarre. I am not sure why MM would agree to being an interim manager essentially! Knowing his fate is sealed, regardless if he does well this campaign?

He is only 59, so has plenty of years left to be in management so it's not as if he is going into retirement mode yet.

I wanted him to get the job but I would prefer someone coming in who is under a bit of pressure to keep their job.

Why does JD have to do everything arseways

Morrison J

Morrison J wrote: »

McCarthy doing great is not a negative. We'll still be in a better position than we are now. Isn't that why you hire a manager? To take you forward?

But you don't know what will happen.

Isn't that why clubs and countries don't hire the next manager 2 years in advance? To see how things work out?

Fr Tod Umptious

Morrison J wrote: »

RTE reporting that Kenny will also oversee the development of all underage teams from u15 to u19 (whilst directly managing the u21s).

Really can't see how people are seeing the negative side in this.

Because people cannot bring themselves to think that anything the FAI do might just be a good idea.

No less than a day ago people were giving out about the FAI and how short sighed they were by just appointing McCarthy to get us to 2020 and all that Delaney wanted was to se been at Euro 2020 in Dublin etc etc etc, and Stephen Kenny the poor guy was only meet by a contact of the FAI, they did not have to common courtesy to speak to him themselves etc etc

Now it turns out that McCarthy will just be in charge through to 2020 and then had over to Keeny who has already been working with the u21s and other age groups.

But now this longer term plan with a emphasis on youth is suddenly the most stupid idea every and typical of Delaney because something something something etc etc

The point I have been trying to make for the past few days that the people around here will never think anything eh FAI do as positive has just been proven.

All the people who wanted McCarthy to fail to show up the FAI now want him to succeed, to show up the FAI

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because people cannot bring themselves to think that anything the FAI do might just be a good idea...

An idea so cunning and brilliant that no one has thought of it before.

It sounds like a line in Blackadder...

The Talking Bread

Picture this,

Mick does well, qualifies and has a decent Euros, passes the baton to Kenny who flops straight away, How ridiculous would that seem!

tigger123

I like this, in theory. Kenny manages the U21, and has a meaningful guiding hand over the other youth teams before kicking on into the senior side with (some of) the same players. This is what we need.

OldMrBrennan83

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Picture this,

Mick does well, qualifies and has a decent Euros, passes the baton to Kenny who flops straight away, How ridiculous would that seem!

But if staying for only 2 years is something that McCarthy wants himself, what are you going to do after a decent Euro's? Hold him in the job at gunpoint?

Soups123

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Picture this,

Mick does well, qualifies and has a decent Euros, passes the baton to Kenny who flops straight away, How ridiculous would that seem!

Yeah but yeah but it’s forsight it’s planning for the future. Give the FAI a chance.....

How anyone sees the reported agreement as a positive is just baffling

Soups123

Patww79 wrote: »

But if staying for only 2 years is something that McCarthy wants himself, what are you going to do after a decent Euro's? Hold him in the job at gunpoint?

You don’t give him the job. You’d never give it to a man who says I want it but only for 2 years. He’s Mick McCarthty not Pep Guardiola

tigger123

Soups123 wrote: »

Yeah but yeah but it’s forsight it’s planning for the future. Give the FAI a chance.....

How anyone sees the reported agreement as a positive is just baffling

Kenny is being given a chance to manage the senior side, after he's moulded it.

Patww79

Patww79 wrote: »

But if staying for only 2 years is something that McCarthy wants himself, what are you going to do after a decent Euro's? Hold him in the job at gunpoint?

Appoint the best available candidate.

As has happened since the dawn of time in football.

Except...we can't...because the decision was made 2 years before.

OldMrBrennan83

Soups123 wrote: »

You don’t give him the job. You’d never give it to a man who says I want it but only for 2 years. He’s Mick McCarthty not Pep Guardiola

We're not Barcelona or Man City.

Deeper Blue

Why not just give the senior job to Kenny now? To me that would make a lot more sense, implement his style in the easier qualifying campaign and have it established by the world cup campaign.

Soups123

tigger123 wrote: »

Kenny is being given a chance to manage the senior side, after he's moulded it.

I think that would be a good idea if

A. There wasn’t a set 2 years on it
B. It’s not contractual so if does **** or Mick does great we can adapt the plan

Imagine it’s set in stone and Mick does well and Kenny is flopping with the u21s but the 2 years are up so we fire ahead?

j8wk2feszrnpao

Soups123 wrote: »

You don’t give him the job. You’d never give it to a man who says I want it but only for 2 years. He’s Mick McCarthty not Pep Guardiola

If Mick said he just wants it for 2 years only, it doesn’t make sense. Just give the job to Kenny now if you’re going to make him manager in 2 years.

Agent Coulson

Delaney basically covering his own ass and salary by doing this.



He gives the fans McCarthy and Kenny the two odds on for the job at the same time and now he can say look I listened to the fans and gave them what they wanted.


Now if it goes pear shaped it's on the fans.

Soups123

Patww79 wrote: »

We're not Barcelona or Man City.

Agreed if this is true we are Mickey fckkn Mouse FC

Morrison J

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Picture this,

Mick does well, qualifies and has a decent Euros, passes the baton to Kenny who flops straight away, How ridiculous would that seem!

If Kenny flops in two years it means he'd definitely flop in even more spectacular fashion if given the job today. Giving him the chance to develop a decent crop of young players while Mick does a good job with the senior team gives Kenny the best possible opportunity to succeed when he does eventually take over. This is a total win-win

The Talking Bread

Patww79 wrote: »

But if staying for only 2 years is something that McCarthy wants himself, what are you going to do after a decent Euro's? Hold him in the job at gunpoint?

I don't see why any 59 year old manager would only want to take a top paying job for only a year and a half and then finish up, especially at international level when it isn't exactly full on.

You are looking at this the wrong way. It just seems bizarre then that the FAI would appoint someone who has admitted them he just wants a nixer for a year to top up his bank balance, especially when expectations aren't that high.

Why pay someone 1.2 million if he clearly isn't overly committed to the job??

This appointment should be about building something, not a quick fix.

Ohmeha

Appointing Kenny (in the future) smacks of nothing but an attempt at populism from Delaney with the increasingly vocal calls for his resignation and the lukewarm reception received to the return of Mick

If you think Kenny is good enough for the job appoint him to do it now not after what is effectively a trial-run at Under 21 level with the bizarre guarantee of getting the top job no matter what

Mr.Nice Guy

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Picture this,

Mick does well, qualifies and has a decent Euros, passes the baton to Kenny who flops straight away, How ridiculous would that seem!

Not to mention what it would do to the morale of the youth teams that he would have been involved with. I mean if Kenny struggles at the senior team, does all the work at underage level then get completely overhauled?

And McCarthy's style of play is very different to Kenny's football ethos. What's the point in having a coordinated approach at youth level through to U-21, and then playing a different style entirely at senior level?

And what happens if the senior players struggle to adapt to the Kenny way? Does he then send through a bunch of his U-21s, who he would be more confident would know his style, thus potentially sidelining many of the experienced pros?

And does anyone really think they've thought all of this through? Because if so, I've some magic beans for sale. We must be the only country that wouldn't trust a guy to take charge of a senior side, but WILL place the future of its youth football in his hands!

It's a disaster waiting to happen imo. I don't anticipate it working out at all.

In fact I can already picture Stephen Kenny about 12-18 months from now reading out his statement announcing his resignation, with oul' John sitting there beside him. No questions at the press conference, of course.

Soups123

Morrison J wrote: »

If Kenny flops in two years it means he'd definitely flop in even more spectacular fashion if given the job today. Giving him the chance to develop a decent crop of young players while Mick does a good job with the senior team gives Kenny the best possible opportunity to succeed when he does eventually take over. This is a total win-win

The senior team is full of young players now. If he’s not good enough now the u21s won’t get him ready for the level.

Putting him in as u21s with an eye on the future is a great idea, sets the 21s up lovely and we have a possible future manager to step up.

The commitment to 2 years is the only problem people have. You are actually in agreement with that idea because you keep saying see what happens in two years. If the 2 years isn’t committed then most will agree with it

Aidric

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The man is a total chancer. A crafty one, but a chancer nonetheless.

He is that but he has crafted a solution to placate the dissenting voices with this decision. He has always been a reactive rather than a proactive leader.

I don't see a huge downside to this decision. If McCarthy meets his objectives he can walk away with his head held high and hand the reigns over to Kenny who will have been immersed in the system for 2 years.

The Talking Bread

Morrison J wrote: »

If Kenny flops in two years it means he'd definitely flop in even more spectacular fashion if given the job today. Giving him the chance to develop a decent crop of young players while Mick does a good job with the senior team gives Kenny the best possible opportunity to succeed when he does eventually take over. This is a total win-win

I think you are missing the point about what I am saying here. If Mick comes in now and shows that he is capable of doing the job, why have his fate sealed already? He has plenty of mileage as a manager left on the clock, at least 3 campaigns if we do well with him. But we know he is gone already now?

So basically they are taking the risk of premptively "sacking" a coach for another coach with relatively lesser experience?

Soups123

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I think you are missing the point about what I am saying here. If Mick comes in now and shows that he is capable of doing the job, why have his fate sealed already? He has plenty of mileage as a manager left on the clock, at least 3 campaigns if we do well with him. But we know he is gone already now?

So basically they are taking the risk of premptively "sacking" a coach for another coach with relatively lesser experience?

It really is this simple.

Ohmeha

And on-top of this McCarthy/Kenny madness we have a struggling under 21 team who need a long-term appointment with direction and not a temporary manager

Mr.Nice Guy

Aidric wrote: »

He is that but he has crafted a solution to placate the dissenting voices with this decision. He has always been a reactive rather than a proactive leader.

I don't see a huge downside to this decision. If McCarthy meets his objectives he can walk away with his head held high and hand the reigns over to Kenny who will have been immersed in the system for 2 years.

If McCarthy meets his objectives is the key phrase. This is the worst Irish team in living memory and we are devoid of a goalscorer.

Imagine if one of McCarthy's first games is a drab 0-0, and people are bemoaning the tactics, which was a common complaint among Ipswich fans, how do you think the media will respond?

They will wonder why he is not being more adventurous, and to make matters worse, they'll put these points to Kenny as well, and he'll obviously have to try and duck them out of respect to Mick. But that's how the Mick vs Kenny debate is going to grow. The only way it won't is if Mick is a terrific success in 2019, and with the players he has to work with I can't see that happening.

The media will stir this up and it will become a soap opera. We've had Martin and Roy's Odd Couple. Now we're looking at Dynasty.

The Talking Bread

I would actually love to see both Kenny and Mick's contracts lined up side by side!

Essentially............

Kenny's: You take charge of the young lads, don't worry about what you do, no pressure, you don't actually have to do well (Noel King will explain all this to you in more detail) and in a year and a half you will have a promotion, regardless.

Mick's: Here is 1.2 million, show your face for a year and then f*ck off. No pressure to do well, basically, your fate is sealed. Actually, we would prefer if you screwed up as then it will justify us only handing you a stopgap job. (Don't approach Noel King about this logic)

OldMrBrennan83

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I would actually love to see both Kenny and Mick's contracts lined up side by side!

Essentially............

Kenny's: You take charge of the young lads, don't worry about what you do, no pressure, you don't actually have to do well (Noel King will explain all this to you in more detail) and in a year and a half you will have a promotion, regardless.

Mick's: Here is 1.2 million, show your face for a year and then f*ck off. No pressure to do well, basically, your fate is sealed. Actually, we would prefer if you screwed up as then it will justify us only handing you a stopgap job. (Don't approach Noel King about this logic)

Yeah I'd say that's exactly how it's happened.

The Talking Bread

Aidric wrote: »

er.

I don't see a huge downside to this decision. If McCarthy meets his objectives he can walk away with his head held high and hand the reigns over to Kenny who will have been immersed in the system for 2 years.

But surely he would be more content to keep the job if he is doing well? Then he can walk around with his head held high and still be pocketing millions for less than a part time job.

He is only 59?

Corholio

It's a very bizarre one. What happens if McCarthy is doing a great job? What happens if Kenny's role at U-21's is going terribly? I wouldn't have minded Kenny at all as Senior manager, but I don't think this is the way to go about it. I've never heard of an already decided timeline of senior team managers before.

mickmackey1

Only the FAI could have dreamt this one up. Now the players don't have to bother their a$$ for Mick knowing he's deadwood and gone anyway. And then to be replaced by someone totally unproven at this level. Complete farce and a laughing stock.

The Talking Bread

Patww79 wrote: »

Yeah I'd say that's exactly how it's happened.

lighten up Pat.

OldMrBrennan83

The Talking Bread wrote: »

lighten up Pat.

Away to **** with that shíte, you're never at anything different. Bloody boards tactics.

Is that the best you cam come up with when someone doesn't agree with that absolute mess you posted above? Or maybe you do actually think the FAI did tell Mick McCarthy to show his face for a year and then **** off. If it's the latter then there probably isn't anywhere other than snide for you to go in fairness.

The Talking Bread

Patww79 wrote: »

Away to **** with that shíte, you're never at anything different. Is that the best you cam come up with when someone doesn't agree with that absolute mess you posted above?

Lighten up, Pat.

If you don't agree with my posts and it turn's you passive aggressive, consider not responding..........or best still block me.

Morrison J

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I think you are missing the point about what I am saying here. If Mick comes in now and shows that he is capable of doing the job, why have his fate sealed already? He has plenty of mileage as a manager left on the clock, at least 3 campaigns if we do well with him. But we know he is gone already now?

So basically they are taking the risk of premptively "sacking" a coach for another coach with relatively lesser experience?

There's no sacking here. Mick has agreed to the terms.

Lets be honest. Mick McCarthy isn't leading us to a semi final of the Euros. He's absolutely the best man to get the most out of the current squad though and can give us a chance of qualifying. Short term he's the perfect man for the job. We've got the best realistic short term candidate on board for the next two years.

I felt like the job was a bit soon for Kenny myself especially with the current crop of players. Mick can handle it better right now. Putting him in with the U21's is perfect to make that transition seamless. We get a man in who will get to develop a good crop of underage players, he'll teach them how to play a bit of football and then he'll take over with every chance to succeed.

Mick obviously doesn't want the job long term. Why would he agree to those terms if he did? He's getting well paid to lay down the foundations for Kenny. A rare long term plan by the FAI that they should be commended for.

BenK

Reminds me of the season Ferguson announced he was going to retire from United in the early 2000s and he acknowledged after that it was the wrong decision as players knew he was going so his control was eroded. Bit different here and it's at international level but it's just a very strange set-up.

The Talking Bread

Patww79 wrote: »

Probably for the best because the last thing anyone needs is a condescending **** who has no real interest in making a valid point THAT I AGREE WITH.

I anticipate this is what you mean.

My opinions on this arrangement have been the same as the majority since it broke that are commenting on it. So my views are not the anomaly here. So just because YOU don't agree with them, does not make them any less valid.

FFS.

Aidric

The Talking Bread wrote: »

But surely he would be more content to keep the job if he is doing well? Then he can walk around with his head held high and still be pocketing millions for less than a part time job.

He is only 59?

He'll be pushing retirement age at the end of his contract having banked a tasty packet. Who's to say he wants another job after that?

OldMrBrennan83

Aidric wrote: »

He'll be pushing retirement age at the end of his contract having banked a tasty packet. Who's to say he wants another job after that?

That could be exactly what he wants, none of us know. I just can't see him as the type to go in for this if he wasn't in agreement.

jay0109

What happens if Chris Hughton or Neil Lennon are available and interested in the job in 2 yrs and Kenny has had mediocre performance at u21's?

This whole set up is a farce. Delaney has thrown money at the issue to shut the media and fans down. The Kenny appointment is purely to keep Delaney in his own job and it comes at a cost to the LoI losing it's best manager and buckets of money which could have been spent on kids coaches around the country.

OldMrBrennan83

jay0109 wrote: »

What happens if Chris Hughton or Neil Lennon are available and interested in the job in 2 yrs and Kenny has had mediocre performance at u21's?

This whole set up is a farce. Delaney has thrown money at the issue to shut the media and fans down. The Kenny appointment is purely to keep Delaney in his own job and it comes at a cost to the LoI losing it's best manager and buckets of money which could have been spent on kids coaches around the country.

Do we know Kenny has it guaranteed yet?

Soups123

Patww79 wrote: »

Do we know Kenny has it guaranteed yet?

Yes that’s what has been reported by RTÉ. No reference to sources just straight up confirmation

Quote
Mick McCarthy has been confirmed as the new Republic of Ireland manager. He will be replaced by Stephen Kenny after the Euro 2020 finals. 

The Talking Bread

Aidric wrote: »

He'll be pushing retirement age at the end of his contract having banked a tasty packet. Who's to say he wants another job after that?

Yeah, maybe he hust comes across to me as a "young 60" . He just seems to e that he is someone who has still a few miles on the managerial clock.

It does seem he is merely in it then for the handy pay packet, with no pressure really on him, (considering how low we are atm) if stepping out of management is his plan rather than this "unfinished business" soundbyte he has been laying out the last few years re this role.

There is a lot to think about here, I would like to hear from Mick on this for clarity.

I have no issue with Kenny getting his chance but he could be under more pressure now taking over from someone who is possibly exiting on a high?

Fr Tod Umptious

Aidric wrote: »

He'll be pushing retirement age at the end of his contract having banked a tasty packet. Who's to say he wants another job after that?

Plus if he had a good Euros he could leave with his legacy intact.

Last time he left after a pretty bad world cup hangover, with the Sipan incident still fresh.

If he does well at 2020 he can leave the hangover to Kenny.

Francie Barrett

BenK wrote: »

Reminds me of the season Ferguson announced he was going to retire from United in the early 2000s and he acknowledged after that it was the wrong decision as players knew he was going so his control was eroded. Bit different here and it's at international level but it's just a very strange set-up.

Very good point in fairness. They shouldn't have said a bit about Kenny taking over as it does nothing for McCarthy's authority.

Aidric

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Yeah, maybe he hust comes across to me as a "young 60" . He just seems to e that he is someone who has still a few miles on the managerial clock.

It does seem he is merely in it then for the handy pay packet, with no pressure really on him, (considering how low we are atm) if stepping out of management is his plan rather than this "unfinished business" soundbyte he has been laying out the last few years re this role.

There is a lot to think about here, I would like to hear from Mick on this for clarity.

I have no issue with Kenny getting his chance but he could be under more pressure now taking over from someone who is possibly exiting on a high?

It's a classic shot to nothing for McCarthy. Expectations are rock bottom so he has nothing to lose. If things go well he can walk away feeling vindicated.

TheCitizen

The mind boggles

jay0109

Speculation now that seems to be coming from McCarthy sources that he knew nothing about the Kenny appointment and that Kenny is lined up to take over. High farce yet again from the FAI if true