O'Neill Gone - Next Rep Ireland Manager?

dfx-

Noel King would probably make O'Neill look forward thinking. All the progress in youth teams went to die when he took on the finished product at U-21 level.

Hughton is a similarly dull cautious coach. Kenny is under no pressure to leave Dundalk and is very comfortable, the pressure would not be good. Michael O'Neill is well paid in a job he wanted.

Not just Delaney, but all those acolytes who supported him have to go. He has removed all dissenting voices around him, so they're all on the block. Otherwise it would still be business as usual post Delaney.

Laois_Man

chicorytip wrote: »

Mc Carthy has achieved damn all in club management and was only modestly successful at international level working with players of far greater ability than those available to either Trappatoni or O'Neill. He lacks imagination and tactical savvy.
I think David O' Leary would be a good choice. At least he has managed at the highest level, has stature,would command respect from the players and is Irish.

In fairness, McCarthy took over Ipswich in November 2012 when they not won at home for 8 months, and only won once away, and were last in the table, and he won something like 7 out of his first 12 games finishing...
14th
9th
6th,
7th,
16th,
12th

Now that he's gone, Ipswich are exactly back where he found them. Last and adrift!

I know it's only the Championship, but that's our relative level....if even!

tastyt

PGE1970 wrote: »

I disagree entirely.


I'm following LoI football for 40 years since I was a kid. Kenny has done brilliantly with Dundalk. But, in the last 5 years, there have only been 2 competing teams in the league and one depended on Sean Maguire to win them the double.


In that time, Dundalk's excellent Europa League run has raised finances to enable them to buy the league's best talent e.g. Benson, McEleny etc. Kenny has developed players like Massey, Sheilds, Gartland, Towell etc. Of that there is no doubt.


Kenny flopped at Rovers, flopped at Dunfermline (although he took the wrong job) and did ok at Derry.



If you think that modern day Premier League standard footballers are going to buy into that, i think that you are wrong. Brian Kerr's job was made easier by the fact that he managed a lot of his team at underage. Eoin Hand had played with a some of his players when he took over and he played in england.


To go from the LoI to managing Ireland with no history of playing/performing at the highest level is unrealistic. And I say that as a LoI supporter.

Kenny got dunfermline to a Scottish cup final, hardly a flop, theyd cut your hand off to reach another one.

And this thing about writing managers off for not doing great in one or two jobs is a real British / Irish thing. Look at the likes of sarri at Chelsea who has had about a hundred jobs, not all massive successes, and other coaches on the continent.

In Europe they see experience good and bad will only add to a coaches knowledge of the game and improve him where as over here if you dont win trophies with every club you've ever managed your a flop. Its mad really

AGC

PGE1970 wrote: »

I disagree entirely.

I'm following LoI football for 40 years since I was a kid. Kenny has done brilliantly with Dundalk. But, in the last 5 years, there have only been 2 competing teams in the league and one depended on Sean Maguire to win them the double.

In that time, Dundalk's excellent Europa League run has raised finances to enable them to buy the league's best talent e.g. Benson, McEleny etc. Kenny has developed players like Massey, Sheilds, Gartland, Towell etc. Of that there is no doubt.

Kenny flopped at Rovers, flopped at Dunfermline (although he took the wrong job) and did ok at Derry.

If you think that modern day Premier League standard footballers are going to buy into that, i think that you are wrong. Brian Kerr's job was made easier by the fact that he managed a lot of his team at underage. Eoin Hand had played with a some of his players when he took over and he played in england.

To go from the LoI to managing Ireland with no history of playing/performing at the highest level is unrealistic. And I say that as a LoI supporter.

We don't have premier league players. We have a group where there is LoI experience and championship level at best standard.

Yes he flopped at Dunfermline but he was never going to succeed at Rovers, the fans didn't want him, Roche and co got rid of MON because he was getting to big for them and I thought Kenny was mad leaving Derry for them. Don't forget he was very successful at Bohs as well.

He has brought Dundalk from pure sh*te to enable them have the budget they have.

I don't know why you place such an emphasis on playing? If Rafa wanted the Ireland job I wouldn't be saying no.

As I said I do not think he will get it but with the group of players available I think he would certainly bring them together as a group and produce far better football than what we have been seeing. The players have looked completely lost and disinterested over the last 18 months, something Dundalk certainly have not.

MD1990

Kenny in Scotland was over 10 years when he was 35-36.

My main issue would be the media attention. He could struggle under the spotlight as he is often very nervous doing media with Dundalk.
With Ireland its on a different level.

ballsymchugh

bit of a pain in the tits that the first match for the new manager will be a qualifier.

PGE1970

I don't disagree about your comments regarding Kenny's achievements. They have been marvellous. But that that doesn't qualify you to be an international manager and there are much better candidates out there.


Rafa began coaching with Real Madrid in his 20s and graduated through the levels before he moved on. That is hardly comparable to starting at Longford and ending up at Dundalk.


But I guess that we can agree to disagree:)

AGC

PGE1970 wrote: »

I don't disagree about your comments regarding Kenny's achievements. They have been marvellous. But that that doesn't qualify you to be an international manager and there are much better candidates out there.


Rafa began coaching with Real Madrid in his 20s and graduated through the levels before he moved on. That is hardly comparable to starting at Longford and ending up at Dundalk.


But I guess that we can agree to disagree:)

I agree on your first point that there are better candidates but will they want it....

So you're happy that having not played makes no difference?;)

Laois_Man

ballsymchugh wrote: »

bit of a pain in the tits that the first match for the new manager will be a qualifier.

There's an international week in mid-February. There'll be a friendly arranged there!

LoughNeagh2017

That's my interest in the team gone, I only watched them because of the south derry manager

FutureGuy

Thank the ****ing stars

ozzy jr

Thank God he's gone.

Richard Hillman

I just hope Southampton results pick up, because if it's one person I don't want, it's Mark Hughes.

average_runner

MD1990 wrote: »

Kenny in Scotland was over 10 years when he was 35-36.

My main issue would be the media attention. He could struggle under the spotlight as he is often very nervous doing media with Dundalk.
With Ireland its on a different level.

Ireland are below Dundalk at this stage. Dundalk would beat us!!

yabadabado

Oat23 wrote: »

Hopefully whoever gets the job performs as poorly as MON has been for the past 2 years and the next resignation we get is Delaney after massive protests.

Anyone who wants Allardyce needs to cop on. Why would you want someone who is going to get a **** team to overperform and help the FAI temporarily cover up the shocking job they have done running football in this country? Delaney would give himself a new contract after a little success and we're stuck with him for another 10+ years. It's time to finish him and press reset. Finally.

JD is there for as long as he wants imo.No amount of protests will see him go ,he will move onto a job in UEFA or similar when it suits him.

He has FAI set up perfectly for himself and I'd have a feeling only a better job or some sort of scandal would change that.

It's sickening to see him in charge and the state of football he over sees in this country and with international teams.

NIMAN

JD has been great at empire building......he is safe.

Bertser

Paddy Power having Sven at 6/1 is just a sick joke right?

AGC

NIMAN wrote: »

JD has been great at empire building......he is safe.

His own empire in his own interests and no one else's, certainly not Irish football's

Laois_Man

Bertser wrote: »

Paddy Power having Sven at 6/1 is just a sick joke right?

People need to stop talking about bookies odds

They don't know anything

I doubt even the FAI themselves do yet!

dr.kenneth noisewater

I think they'll try get a big name in for 2020 Euros to ensure we qualify as some of its in Dublin. If that wasn't the case then I'd say Kenny had a good chance. The only way I see him get it is if the FAI were short on money after getting rid of the 2 lads and cant afford anyone else which I doubt is the case

AGC

Laois_Man wrote: »

People need to stop talking about bookies odds

They don't know anything

I doubt even the FAI themselves do yet!

:rolleyes: They manage to make quite a good living off their odds!

CHealy

PGE1970 wrote: »

I disagree entirely.


I'm following LoI football for 40 years since I was a kid. Kenny has done brilliantly with Dundalk. But, in the last 5 years, there have only been 2 competing teams in the league and one depended on Sean Maguire to win them the double.

Sean Maguire didnt play a minute of FAI Cup football for us in 2017. In fact Dundalk were much more reliant on Hobans goalscoring winning them the Double than we ever were with Maguire.

bradlente

Oat23 wrote: »

Hopefully whoever gets the job performs as poorly as MON has been for the past 2 years and the next resignation we get is Delaney after massive protests.

Anyone who wants Allardyce needs to cop on. Why would you want someone who is going to get a **** team to overperform and help the FAI temporarily cover up the shocking job they have done running football in this country? Delaney would give himself a new contract after a little success and we're stuck with him for another 10+ years. It's time to finish him and press reset. Finally.

What an attitude. You can take Allardyce out of this post and put Guardiola in and it would mean the exact same thing. Why bother caring at all what the national team is doing if all you want is Delaney's head via team failure?

Delaney will be judged on his awful record ultimately. When Rugby and GAAs growth in the country is compared to his time at the helm of the FAI, anyone who cares the least bit about it will see the numbers and just how bad a job he's done. That doesn't mean we should all hope the team loses until he's gone, how anyone could watch with that hope sounds insane to me.

Big Sam has something to prove, and what better way to stick it to England than to get some success here.

ERG89

I'd like McCarthy but after seeing him discuss the topic on Virgin doing punditry a few months ago I don't think he was particularly happy with how he was treated by the FAI and the public. I imagine his reply would be not dissimilar to this.....

TheCitizen

Neil Lennon

Mr.Nice Guy

I can't work out the enthusiasm many have for these names. I made these points in a post two months ago so I'll repeat them:

Don't understand people wanting a better style of play and then calling for McCarthy, who was hated at Ipswich for his style of play. And while they have struggled without him you'll still find Ipswich fans saying they are happier to have a painful transition period if it means better football - the same thing many say about MON. I think people are looking back fondly on McCarthy's tenure and forgetting he worked with a far higher calibre of player. You're not going to get that same brand of football with the current inferior crop of talent. We will be like his Ipswich team was.

As for Kenny, might be one for the unpopular opinions thread but he's not going to command the respect of players in my opinion. Trying to inculcate a new passing philosophy on players accustomed to a more pragmatic style is going to take time and patience, in other words we'll likely lose a few games before we see positive results. Do you really think the media and fanbase in this country are going to afford him that patience? Two defeats in and it would be, "this guy's out of his depth" and you may even have our Premier League contingent whispering the same amongst themselves. It would end in tears I reckon.

There are two options as I see it: you either go the pragmatic route, or the ideological route.

If you hire a pragmatic coach, they will look at the relative strengths and weaknesses of this team and plan accordingly. There is no sensible, pragmatic coach in the world that will look at this team and conclude, "we need to play to its attacking strengths." There are none. We are desperately short up front and in creative midfielders. That means if you hire a McCarthy, Allardyce, Hughton etc. then you will surely get a system very similar to the one Trap and MON have used, and which the names touted were using at their clubs recently. It will be more of the same.

If you go down the ideological route, and hire someone with an explicit remit to get it down and implement a more attacking ethos and damn the consequences, that will require a painful learning curve meaning plenty of losses, and a likely exodus of many key players that are there currently. For example, is a Shane Duffy or a Ciaran Clark going to thrive in a system where they're expected to play a high line, which would expose their lack of pace on the counter? Highly doubtful considering they do not play this way for their clubs. Would the Irish public be willing to put up with several losses, and experienced players like the above, being sidelined for other, less experienced players that would better suit this type of system? I suspect the vast majority will not. For reference, when Sarri took over at Napoli he warned they would likely lose their opening 4 odd games. I believe he made a similar warning at Chelsea. It didn't happen, but he warned fans to prepare themselves for it.

Such a drastic change of ethos would require a manager of strong character and a proven record, which Kenny simply does not have. There's a world of difference between being top fish in a little pond, and then having to swim with the sharks on the international stage.

So to sum up my thoughts, whether we go the pragmatic or ideological approach is fraught with problems. I want to see the team play good football, but if I'm looking at it coldly, our strengths are not in this area. I can't therefore be supportive of a more ideological route in that respect. While it pains me to say it, a guy like Sam Allardyce is likely the best option for us - as far as achieving results goes -because he's the best of the pragmatic candidates out there, and his methods would get the most out of our limited players.

Bottom line is I can't see the appointment of any coach being a cause for celebration because as others have pointed out, the problems run far deeper than that. The greatest cause for celebration for me will be the day Delaney departs the scene and we can try and put together a structure that is cohesive from top to bottom. It is not in place at the moment so any new coach is going to be swimming against the tide.

AGC

TheCitizen wrote: »

Neil Lennon

A thousand no's

yabadabado

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

I think they'll try get a big name in for 2020 Euros to ensure we qualify as some of its in Dublin. If that wasn't the case then I'd say Kenny had a good chance. The only way I see him get it is if the FAI were short on money after getting rid of the 2 lads and cant afford anyone else which I doubt is the case

If we qualify for it I think we play 2 group games in Dublin and possibly a rd 16 game. It be a massive let down if we don't get in .

For that reason I'd agree with you about Kenny, FAI won't want to take any risks.

SuperSean11

Alex Ferguson

AGC

yabadabado wrote: »

If we qualify for it I think we play 2 group games in Dublin and possibly a rd 16 game. It be a massive let down if we don't get in .

For that reason I'd agree with you about Kenny, FAI won't want to take any risks.

Is there some bonkers format that you are paired with a country and if both qualify you are guaranteed to have them in your group?

TheCitizen

AGC wrote: »

A thousand no's

Who do you want, that would be a realistic appointment that is?

franglan

Lee Carsley for me. Comes with an impressive reputation as a coach and hasn’t disgraced himself when called about to be an intern manager. Highly regarded but is with the FA so that boat might have sailed.

Bandana boy

Chris Hughton would be my choice if he could be tempted away from Brighton

theoneeyedman

Personally have great time for Kenny, going back to his Longford days.

The problem is though, would the players respect him? I highly doubt it tbh. Lads who have been reared mainly in the English game won't know who the **** he is, let alone what he's done. Dundalk, you're having a larf mate innit? This was a problem with Kerr, will attitudes have improved in the meantime..... I'm not so sure.

AGC

TheCitizen wrote: »

Who do you want, that would be a realistic appointment that is?

Top of my list would be Houghton but would probably fall into the unrealistic.

I would like to see Kenny given a chance. I do not think he will get it but would be my choice.

Interesting to see he is now into 2/1 fav with McCarthy.

Fr Tod Umptious

TheCitizen wrote: »

Neil Lennon

AGC wrote: »

A thousand no's

TheCitizen wrote: »

Who do you want, that would be a realistic appointment that is?

Oh no, please don't

You have just set off "The Citizen".

She/he is in full defensive mode about one for her/his former Celtic binkies.

O'Neill is only a few hours out of the job and we have started again with Lennon.

beertons

Please not McCarthy.

Kenny would be a great choice.

POKERKING

I think lennon could do a good job and is attainable.

Its quite the attractive job if you ask me as the bar is currently set so low.

Laois_Man

AGC wrote: »

:rolleyes: They manage to make quite a good living off their odds!

OK then, the bookies know - even though the FAI don't! :rolleyes:

They make their doe from sucking people in to make bets

They'll have a new favorite every 2 weeks for the next 3 months until the FAI appoint someone! That's how they suck, suckers in!

Fr Tod Umptious

keano_afc wrote: »

Changing deckchairs on the Titanic. There wont be any real change until Delaney is gone.

Ok so explain to me how the national team will preform better with a different person in charge of the FAI.

The current man has, over the past decade, given us Trappatoni a manager respected the world over and Martin O'Neill a man who at the time of appointment was highly regarded and a very much welcomed by fans.

Under this administration arguably Ireland's greatest players was also enticed to become the assistant manager and his presence would bring the passion and pride that ere need to help the national team develop.

He also managed to get a multi-millionaire to pay part of the managers salary and got FIFA to pony up e5 million for a refereeing mistake.

So how ill things be better with a different CEO, or whatever the title is ?

yabadabado

AGC wrote: »

Is there some bonkers format that you are paired with a country and if both qualify you are guaranteed to have them in your group?

Dublin is paired with Bilbao .I suppose if both Ireland and Spain qualify then we have to be in with them .

TheCitizen

AGC wrote: »

Top of my list would be Houghton but would probably fall into the unrealistic.

You mean Hughton? Chris Hughton. Houghton is the guy who put the ball in the England net. Chris Hughton would be an excellent choice but like you I reckon he's a non runner.

AGC wrote: »

I would like to see Kenny given a chance. I do not think he will get it but would be my choice.

Interesting to see he is now into 2/1 fav with McCarthy.

I like Stephen Kenny but I think Neil Lennon would have a stronger managerial CV with more experience at a higher level. He managed Celtic in the CL. If it was between those two I'd go with Lennon.

I wouldn't go back to Mick, it didn't end well the last time. He's had his time. Lennon for me is someone with a good blend of experience and he's still young and hungry enough and would have a good knowledge of and be in touch with modern day footballers.

yabadabado

TheCitizen wrote: »

Neil Lennon

Why would you want Neil Lennon?
What would he bring to the set up ?

TheCitizen

yabadabado wrote: »

Dublin is paired with Bilbao .I suppose if both Ireland and Spain qualify then we have to be in with them .

It doesn't mean we'd be in the same Group. It just means we will play a game in Bilbao if we qualify and Spain will play a game in Dublin.

TheCitizen

yabadabado wrote: »

Why would you want Neil Lennon?
What would he bring to the set up ?

He's a Celtic man;)

Seriously I think he'd be a good choice and we'd have a realistic chance of getting him. He has experience with Celtic at CL level. Went to Bolton and kept them in the championship initially before they went bust financially. Since then he's done a good consistent job with Hibs getting them promoted and qualifying for the Europa League. He's still young for a manager and hungry for success and has the ability to get his players to play for him. Also his teams play a decent brand of high tempo football. I think he's a strong contender for the job.

Hotblack Desiato

chicorytip wrote: »

He was sacked by England. There has always been a whiff of sulphur surrounding him regarding illegal payments, brown paper bags etc.

Throw in trolleys full of dodgy tickets and you've just described the FAI in a nutshell. Him and Delaney like peas in a pod.

yabadabado

franglan wrote: »

Lee Carsley for me. Comes with an impressive reputation as a coach and hasn’t disgraced himself when called about to be an intern manager. Highly regarded but is with the FA so that boat might have sailed.

Supposedly he was interested getting involved with us a few years back and didn't exactly get a warm response from FAI.

He's highly regarded within the game but very inexperienced so maybe assistant manager role be more suited to him. A similar role then Chris Hughton no harm.

AGC

TheCitizen wrote: »

You mean Hughton? Chris Hughton. Houghton is the guy who put the ball in the England net. Chris Hughton would be an excellent choice but like you I reckon he's a non runner.



I like Stephen Kenny but I think Neil Lennon would have a stronger managerial CV with more experience at a higher level. He managed Celtic in the CL. If it was between those two I'd go with Lennon.

I wouldn't go back to Mick, it didn't end well the last time. He's had his time. Lennon for me is someone with a good blend of experience and he's still young and hungry enough and would have a good knowledge of and be in touch with modern day footballers.

Spellcheck

I just can’t agree with you on Lennon. In saying that like HUGHTON why would he leave Scotland.

ozzy jr

The criteria for next manager should be,

No former player
No Celtic connection
Must abandon hoof ball football

Now go FAI and get our man

AGC

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ok so explain to me how the national team will preform better with a different person in charge of the FAI.

The current man has, over the past decade, given us Trappatoni a manager respected the world over and Martin O'Neill a man who at the time of appointment was highly regarded and a very much welcomed by fans.

Under this administration arguably Ireland's greatest players was also enticed to become the assistant manager and his presence would bring the passion and pride that ere need to help the national team develop.

He also managed to get a multi-millionaire to pay part of the managers salary and got FIFA to pony up e5 million for a refereeing mistake.

So how ill things be better with a different CEO, or whatever the title is ?

If you want to look for a common denominator!

Delaney is in his position for his benefit and not for the benefit of Irish football.

Dan McDonnell has an excellent article he has regurgitated today.