O'Neill Gone - Next Rep Ireland Manager?

franglan

yabadabado wrote: »

Supposedly he was interested getting involved with us a few years back and didn't exactly get a warm response from FAI.

He's highly regarded within the game but very inexperienced so maybe assistant manager role be more suited to him. A similar role then Chris Hughton no harm.

That’s fair enough - I heard the same he wanted to be involved at youth level but FAI didn’t take up his offer.

bohsfan

TheCitizen wrote: »

It doesn't mean we'd be in the same Group. It just means we will play a game in Bilbao if we qualify and Spain will play a game in Dublin.

Nope- if Ireland and Spain both qualify we will both be in Group E with a draw to decide who plays at home in the Spain/Ireland game.

Stephen Kenny for me. Have a fondness for Mick, but it would be hard to see the FAI bringing him back in.

How about a Robbie/Kerr partnership á la Staunton/Robson? :pac:

doncarlos

TheCitizen wrote: »

Neil Lennon

You forgot about Wim Jannson and John Barnes.

Richard Hillman

Mick McCarthy just happens to be on Goals on Sunday this week. Chris Kamara and Ben Sheppard will conduct the job interview

TheCitizen

AGC wrote: »

Spellcheck

I just can’t agree with you on Lennon. In saying that like HUGHTON why would he leave Scotland.

I'd imagine it would be easier for the FAI to prise Lennon away from Hibs than Hughton from Brighton.

TheCitizen

doncarlos wrote: »

You forgot about Wim Jannson and John Barnes.

Eh?

PGE1970

CHealy wrote: »

Sean Maguire didnt play a minute of FAI Cup football for us in 2017. In fact Dundalk were much more reliant on Hobans goalscoring winning them the Double than we ever were with Maguire.

Wasn't he top scorer in the league when he left in the summer and was still top scorer at the end of the league despite missing half the season?


Without winning the league, you can't win the double. But this thread is not about that.

TheCitizen

bohsfan wrote: »

Nope- if Ireland and Spain both qualify we will both be in Group E with a draw to decide who plays at home in the Spain/Ireland game.

Stephen Kenny for me. Have a fondness for Mick, but it would be hard to see the FAI bringing him back in.

How about a Robbie/Kerr partnership á la Staunton/Robson? :pac:

You could be right, the 2020 permutations are a headwreck

Richard Hillman

yabadabado wrote: »

Why would you want Neil Lennon?
What would he bring to the set up ?

Oppression and victimhood. Ireland were at their best during the Oppression years. We became too uppity after the Celtic Tiger. Neil Lennon will bring us right back to the days of Hunger Strikes, Dole Queues and "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish". Proper football.

doncarlos

TheCitizen wrote: »

Eh?

Random ex celtic managers.

TheCitizen

doncarlos wrote: »

Random ex celtic managers.

Neil Lennon is still in management, the other two you mentioned haven't managed anywhere in about 20 years. Lennon is hardly a random suggestion. Have you any idea what you're actually talking about?

death1234567

Leonardo Jardim

Paully D

Lads, Kenny would be laughed out of the dressing room.

Imagine sending him into a group full of players playing in the Premier League and upper level of the Championship.

It’d be like how a school class reacts when their teacher is out and replaced by a substitute.

AGC

Paully D wrote: »

Lads, Kenny would be laughed out of the dressing room.

Imagine sending him into a group full of players playing in the Premier League and upper level of the Championship.

It’d be like how a school class reacts when their teacher is out and replaced by a substitute.

Then that would show the sh*te attitude of the players. 3 of the starting 11 the other night played LOI including the captain and the rest can hardly have an opinions about themselves.

applehunter

Paully D wrote: »

Lads, Kenny would be laughed out of the dressing room.

Imagine sending him into a group full of players playing in the Premier League and upper level of the Championship.

It’d be like how a school class reacts when their teacher is out and replaced by a substitute.

Oh yes, our team of superstars.

AdamD

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I can't work out the enthusiasm many have for these names. I made these points in a post two months ago so I'll repeat them:



There are two options as I see it: you either go the pragmatic route, or the ideological route.

If you hire a pragmatic coach, they will look at the relative strengths and weaknesses of this team and plan accordingly. There is no sensible, pragmatic coach in the world that will look at this team and conclude, "we need to play to its attacking strengths." There are none. We are desperately short up front and in creative midfielders. That means if you hire a McCarthy, Allardyce, Hughton etc. then you will surely get a system very similar to the one Trap and MON have used, and which the names touted were using at their clubs recently. It will be more of the same.

If you go down the ideological route, and hire someone with an explicit remit to get it down and implement a more attacking ethos and damn the consequences, that will require a painful learning curve meaning plenty of losses, and a likely exodus of many key players that are there currently. For example, is a Shane Duffy or a Ciaran Clark going to thrive in a system where they're expected to play a high line, which would expose their lack of pace on the counter? Highly doubtful considering they do not play this way for their clubs. Would the Irish public be willing to put up with several losses, and experienced players like the above, being sidelined for other, less experienced players that would better suit this type of system? I suspect the vast majority will not. For reference, when Sarri took over at Napoli he warned they would likely lose their opening 4 odd games. I believe he made a similar warning at Chelsea. It didn't happen, but he warned fans to prepare themselves for it.

Such a drastic change of ethos would require a manager of strong character and a proven record, which Kenny simply does not have. There's a world of difference between being top fish in a little pond, and then having to swim with the sharks on the international stage.

So to sum up my thoughts, whether we go the pragmatic or ideological approach is fraught with problems. I want to see the team play good football, but if I'm looking at it coldly, our strengths are not in this area. I can't therefore be supportive of a more ideological route in that respect. While it pains me to say it, a guy like Sam Allardyce is likely the best option for us - as far as achieving results goes -because he's the best of the pragmatic candidates out there, and his methods would get the most out of our limited players.

Bottom line is I can't see the appointment of any coach being a cause for celebration because as others have pointed out, the problems run far deeper than that. The greatest cause for celebration for me will be the day Delaney departs the scene and we can try and put together a structure that is cohesive from top to bottom. It is not in place at the moment so any new coach is going to be swimming against the tide.

Football doesn't just consist of high line possession based football and parking the bus, there is an in between.

Kirby

I wonder how big the payoff was.

Any information been leaked to the media yet?

yabadabado

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Ok so explain to me how the national team will preform better with a different person in charge of the FAI.

The current man has, over the past decade, given us Trappatoni a manager respected the world over and Martin O'Neill a man who at the time of appointment was highly regarded and a very much welcomed by fans.

Under this administration arguably Ireland's greatest players was also enticed to become the assistant manager and his presence would bring the passion and pride that ere need to help the national team develop.

He also managed to get a multi-millionaire to pay part of the managers salary and got FIFA to pony up e5 million for a refereeing mistake.

So how ill things be better with a different CEO, or whatever the title is ?

JD only cares about the senior mens team and is happy to let English clubs develope our youth players.The days of that working are gone.

He doesn't give a toss about the league.

He ****ed up the funding of FAI proportion of landesdown rd redelopment.

He got money off a multi millionaire to fund managers but who has very questionable business practices. If that something we want to be associated with?

He is answerable to no one and the AGM set up is something Kim Joug-un would be proud of.

He threw a ill man to the wolves after the San Marino game,the decent thing to do was go on air himself.

He is hugely overpaid.



So yeah if a new person came in I could very easily see where improvements could be made.

Amirani

Paully D wrote: »

Lads, Kenny would be laughed out of the dressing room.

Imagine sending him into a group full of players playing in the Premier League and upper level of the Championship.

It’d be like how a school class reacts when their teacher is out and replaced by a substitute.

Professionals aren't schoolkids.

Not sure about how seriously you take your own job, but if I had to work under a manager with a less than stellar background, I wouldn't be throwing my toys out of the pram and letting my performance drop. Most pro footballers, particularly ones who aren't exactly Ronaldo or Messi, should be able to work professionally under any manager with a good knowledge of the game.

ThunbergsAreGo

Amirani wrote: »

Professionals aren't schoolkids.

Not sure about how seriously you take your own job, but if I had to work under a manager with a less than stellar background, I wouldn't be throwing my toys out of the pram and letting my performance drop. Most pro footballers, particularly ones who aren't exactly Ronaldo or Messi, should be able to work professionally under any manager with a good knowledge of the game.

Announcing a team the day before and having actual tactics would probably win him a bit of respect

Kirby

Amirani wrote: »

Professionals aren't schoolkids.

Not sure about how seriously you take your own job, but if I had to work under a manager with a less than stellar background, I wouldn't be throwing my toys out of the pram and letting my performance drop. Most pro footballers, particularly ones who aren't exactly Ronaldo or Messi, should be able to work professionally under any manager with a good knowledge of the game.

They key word in that statement you made is the bolded one.

They should be able to act like professionals but it's often not the case. A couple of losses and players start turning to each other and saying "Why are we listening to this clown? What has he won or proved?"

Thats the reality of modern football.

doncarlos

Paully D wrote: »

Lads, Kenny would be laughed out of the dressing room.

Imagine sending him into a group full of players playing in the Premier League and upper level of the Championship.

It’d be like how a school class reacts when their teacher is out and replaced by a substitute.

Nonsense. Look at the big personalities in the dressing room like Colman and McClean? Plus you have Long * 2, Stevens, Meyler, Williams, Maguire, Curtis, Ward, Manning, Towell, Horgan & Burke have all been called up to recent squads.

dr.kenneth noisewater

Kirby wrote: »

I wonder how big the payoff was.

Any information been leaked to the media yet?

Full payout of the rest of the contract I'd imagine, cant see any other way MON would have left

AGC

naughtb4 wrote: »

Announcing a team the day before and having actual tactics would probably win him a bit of respect

And showing some respect to the media in general when they have every right to question you

tonycascarino

Paully D wrote: »

Lads, Kenny would be laughed out of the dressing room.

Imagine sending him into a group full of players playing in the Premier League and upper level of the Championship.

It’d be like how a school class reacts when their teacher is out and replaced by a substitute.

I'd agree with you that there is no hope that John Delaney is going to appoint Stephen Kenny especially when it is essential that we qualify for the Euros

where we are one of the hosts. It is likely to be Mick or Sam for the job. My bet is Mick McCarthy with Robbie Keane as assistant.

Paully D

Amirani wrote: »

Professionals aren't schoolkids.

Not sure about how seriously you take your own job, but if I had to work under a manager with a less than stellar background, I wouldn't be throwing my toys out of the pram and letting my performance drop. Most pro footballers, particularly ones who aren't exactly Ronaldo or Messi, should be able to work professionally under any manager with a good knowledge of the game.

Me or you might not, but professional footballers operating at that level are a different breed. Football as a profession is not comparable to what me or you do.

Even look at someone like David Moyes. He had an excellent reputation for what he had done at Everton, then became a joke figure at Manchester United and had no respect from the players. And that's a manager who was seen as successful in the Premier League!

Now I'm not saying Ireland are Manchester United, not by a long shot, but the step up and what Kenny would be walking into is light years ahead of what he's ever experienced. I don't see how he'd survive or what he could bring to that sort of group based on his career thus far.

He's done superbly well at domestic level, but his next step needs to be to cut his cloth accordingly at a higher level first before even being close to considered IMO.

major bill

tonycascarino wrote: »

I'd agree with you that there is no hope that John Delaney is going to appoint Stephen Kenny especially when it is essential that we qualify for the Euros where we are one of the hosts. It is likely to be Mick or Sam for the job.

Kenny would be one for the future, he is defo not the quick fix we need for the Euros unless the FAI are willing to sacrifice qualification in order for us to be prepared for 2022 World cup but thats not going to happen. PaulyD opinion would be echoed by a lot of Fans some of which would have no time for the LOI, he wouldn't have the respect and tbh Kenny is too nice of a bloke to put himself in that situation.

It's gonna be McCarthy, that said I wouldnt be too upset if Paul Cook got the job

jaykay74

BREAKING: Shane Ross has issued a statement...

"I'm sorry to hear Michael O'Neill and Robbie Keane have lost their jobs. Best wishes to Dominant Delaney and all at the IRFU in finding worthy successors."

Sebastian Dangerfield

chicorytip wrote: »

Mc Carthy has achieved damn all in club management and was only modestly successful at international level working with players of far greater ability than those available to either Trappatoni or O'Neill. He lacks imagination and tactical savvy.
I think David O' Leary would be a good choice. At least he has managed at the highest level, has stature,would command respect from the players and is Irish.

I would have agreed with you on DO'L a few years ago, but he's been out of football a long time.

dfx-

AdamD wrote: »

Football doesn't just consist of high line possession based football and parking the bus, there is an in between.

the FAI doesn't care about the style of football or the coherence and development of a team in it.

Theirs is a very short term thinking approach, 'he'll do a job' with players developed 'for free' in England to get them to a finals which gets them their real prize, the money.

So 'conservative' managers are appointed and are stuck with for too long on huge contracts when it pays off.

den87

Would love to see Hughton or Kenny (or both ala MON/Keane?) but it’s going to be Mick.

Delaney and his cronies will look for the safe option and expect McCarthy to grind out our way to the Euros. In 2 years time we’ll still be giving out about kick and follow style football.

AGC

major bill wrote: »

Kenny would be one for the future, he is defo not the quick fix we need for the Euros unless the FAI are willing to sacrifice qualification in order for us to be prepared for 2022 World cup but thats not going to happen. PaulyD opinion would be echoed by a lot of Fans some of which would have no time for the LOI, he wouldn't have the respect and tbh Kenny is too nice of a bloke to put himself in that situation.

It's gonna be McCarthy, that said I wouldnt be too upset if Paul Cook got the job

You could argue Paul Cook has not managed above Kenny's level

Fr Tod Umptious

yabadabado wrote: »

JD only cares about the senior mens team and is happy to let English clubs develope our youth players.The days of that working are gone.

He doesn't give a toss about the league.

More former LOI players than ever before in the national team, far more than 20 or 30 years ago

yabadabado wrote: »

He ****ed up the funding of FAI proportion of landesdown rd redelopment.

He got money off a multi millionaire to fund managers but who has very questionable business practices. If that something we want to be associated with?

Had he turned down money from DOB he would be called a cheap stake.

Was unlucky that the recession hit at the same time as the Vantage Club release. Had the sale been in 2002 they would have been snapped up

yabadabado wrote: »

He is answerable to no one and the AGM set up is something Kim Joug-un would be proud of.

If he is doing such a bad job then why is there no noise from anyone at any level in the FAI against him.
We hear plenty of it here on the internet but if he so bad why aren’t delegates, local committees etc up in arms about him.

yabadabado wrote: »

He threw a ill man to the wolves after the San Marino game,the decent thing to do was go on air himself.

Sure Stan was a huge mistake, a huge gamble that failed, but you cannot argue with the initial appointments of Trap and O’Neill.
They are the type of guys people were asking for

yabadabado wrote: »

He is hugely overpaid.

Not for an Irish CEO he is not.

yabadabado wrote: »

So yeah if a new person came in I could very easily see where improvements could be made.

I don't think so.

major bill

AGC wrote: »

You could argue Paul Cook has not managed above Kenny's level

Managing in the Championship with Wigan, I think Paul Cook might win this argument tbh.

tvercetti

Probably a bit of a wild shout and might get laughed outta here!

Quique Sánchez Flores, only lasted 1 season at Watford but that's been the case for all there managers in recent years. Did play quite direct football, going 2 up top with Deeney and Ighalo and getting it upto them early but still obviously light-years ahead of O'Neill in managing to pass the ball around a bit. They were having a good season and went on a bit of a FA Cup run reaching the semis but there PL performances suffered and they ended the season poorly and he was given the boot.

Spent a couple of years at Espanyol since and got fired there a few months back so is out of work I believe. Can't tell you much about his years in Spain. Also hes one seriously stylish man which is obviously key too.

Few other outside shouts:

Michael Laudrup - Linked with alot of big jobs during his Swansea spell before a bad run and he got fired and has be fluting around Asia every since

Wouldn't mind seeing a dutch manager but options are probably limited, Koeman might have been a realistic shout after the car crash at Everton but has since got the Dutch job and is doing well.

Martin Jol - Managing a club in Egypt last I heard which was a few seasons ago.
Frank de Boer - In Mourinhos words "Worst manager in PL history"
Danny Blind - After a nightmare spell in charge of the National Team
Guss Hiddink - Recently tookover the Chinese U21s
LVG - Don't think I could listen to him
Giovanni van Bronckhorst - Rangers connections could be an issue
Frank Rijkaard - Whatever happened him

AGC

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

If he is doing such a bad job then why is there no noise from anyone at any level in the FAI against him.
We hear plenty of it here on the internet but if he so bad why aren’t delegates, local committees etc up in arms about him.

You are joking right?!

Why would any of them go against him? He has built it up to what he likes and has them all in their cushy numbers.

No board members should be involved for 12 or 13 years as many have been.

AGC

major bill wrote: »

Managing in the Championship with Wigan, I think Paul Cook might win this argument tbh.

For the last 15 odd games I would agree yes but you could argue Europa League group stages and getting results.

I wouldn't mind seeing Cook given a chance either. I think he has done a great job but if people were happy with Cook they can't be unhappy with Kenny IMO

Ardent

keano_afc wrote: »

Changing deckchairs on the Titanic. There wont be any real change until Delaney is gone.

Correct answer. Doesn't matter who's in charge - players are ****e and the organisation is rotten to the core.

Fr Tod Umptious

AGC wrote: »

You are joking right?!

Why would any of them go against him? He has built it up to what he likes and has them all in their cushy numbers.

No board members should be involved for 12 or 13 years as many have been.

But I'm not talking about board members

I'm talking about the grassroots

I have no knowledge of the structure of the FAI but I'm guessing that those at the rock face running clubs up and down the country have some sort of voice on the organisation.

If Delaney cares so little about football in Ireland why aren't we hearing more from them.

Paully D

AGC wrote: »

You could argue Paul Cook has not managed above Kenny's level

Ah, come on now.

I wouldn't be choosing Paul Cook but there's a clear track of consistent progression there.

He didn't do as well as Kenny domestically, but then went to England where he won League Two with two different clubs, reached the playoffs at League One level with Chesterfield, then won League One with Wigan and beat 3 Premier League sides in the FA Cup last season, including Manchester City.

I'd argue that his track of consistent progression is exactly the sort of route Kenny needs to take before he becomes even close to a realistic candidate for the Ireland job.

Rossi IRL

An outsider who "could" do good is Kieran McKenna

Was the u18s manager at Man Utd and is now coaching the first team.

Played good football and would bring up some younger players.

Also no reason why he couldn't continue with his coaching job either.

Fitz*

Bit of a left-field suggestion here.

Craig Bellamy.

I think he comes across really well when doing punditry and you know that he has a real passion for not only football but coaching and developing younger players. Any time he speaks, he is always talking about long-term, clear, sustainable visions for clubs. Has spoken too about their has to be constant player development and progression etc so that Wales just can't keep relying on Bale to get them through.

Maybe not as manager, but having him in the set up could be helpful possibly. I suspect he would be more interested in Wales though.
Where is our Irish version of Bellamy?

AGC

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But I'm not talking about board members

I'm talking about the grassroots

I have no knowledge of the structure of the FAI but I'm guessing that those at the rock face running clubs up and down the country have some sort of voice on the organisation.

If Delaney cares so little about football in Ireland why aren't we hearing more from them.

I doubt some of them would know him, he has done nothing with grassroots for the majority of his reign.

As has been said up until the recently with the introduction of the national underage leagues Delaney was happy creaming t off young lads going to the UK and failing.

AGC

Paully D wrote: »

Ah, come on now.

I wouldn't be choosing Paul Cook but there's a clear track of consistent progression there.

He didn't do as well as Kenny domestically, but then went to England where he won League Two with two different clubs, reached the playoffs at League One level with Chesterfield, then won League One with Wigan and beat 3 Premier League sides in the FA Cup last season, including Manchester City.

I'd argue that his track of consistent progression is exactly the sort of route Kenny needs to take before he becomes even close to a realistic candidate for the Ireland job.

Can't argue with that in relation to Kenny needing to move on to progress, no different to a stand out player in the league here.

yabadabado

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

More former LOI players than ever before in the national team, far more than 20 or 30 years ago

Players arent making a breakthrough in England as esily nowadays so its no great surprise if lads make it at LoI clubs before moving elsewhere.
What has JD done to improve the league?
He has shown little to no interest in "the problem Child " over the years.

Had he turned down money from DOB he would be called a cheap stake.

Why would turning down money be classed as being a cheapskate ?

Was unlucky that the recession hit at the same time as the Vantage Club release. Had the sale been in 2002 they would have been snapped up .

The tickets were way overpriced,recession or not it was going to be a massive job to sell a lot of those packages.I remember getting the catalogue in the post and being astounded at what they were asking .He took a gamble and it backfired in spectacular fashion,he could and should have taken the option of letting the tickets be sold by 3rd party with no risk involved.
The money he had offered to him could have been used to develope underage strutures and LoI instead he ****ed up and then tried to spin it a few years later .



If he is doing such a bad job then why is there no noise from anyone at any level in the FAI against him.
We hear plenty of it here on the internet but if he so bad why aren’t delegates, local committees etc up in arms about him.
Delegates wont speak up for fear they wont be asked to the top table.Like all good dictatorships they surround themselves with yes men.Give a lad a new astro pitch of funding and most will stay quiet.
A journalist can only ask a pre approved question at the AGM.
We had instances of anti delaney banners getting conficated out the the ground in AArhus Monday night.


Sure Stan was a huge mistake, a huge gamble that failed, but you cannot argue with the initial appointments of Trap and O’Neill.
They are the type of guys people were asking for

I never said Trap and MON were bad appointments?



Not for an Irish CEO he is not.

Overpaid for a adminastrator of a national football association.We arent talking about the CEO of a top ISEQ company,compare JD to people in similar jobs in other EU FA's.Some of the CEO's of other FA's are involved in running their league which are huge intities and would be on less money than JD.




I don't think so.

IMO Irish football is going to be in a constant boom bust cycle while Delaney is at the helm.The man is poison for Irish football.A new person with no ties to FAI is needed,not someone who was already well versed in the FAI MO.

Deise Vu

Everything Delaney does is with an eye on getting another year or two out of the eye of the storm and another year or two riding on the gravy train. For that reason there is no chance it will be Stephen Kenny. JD has already gone down the "Gyaffer plus 1" route. It didn't work, he won't do it again. I would be amazed if he hasn't someone lined up already but for the life of me I can't see who. Even with DO'B coming back on board I can't see any big name taking it so watch out for another gimmick.

My prediction is for a reverse "Gyaffer plus 1". It will be Mick McCarthy for pragmatic reasons with Robbie Keane thrown in for PR to try and get the fickle fans off JD's back.Who could argue with Mick's experience and Robbie's passion for playing for his country? They won't be able to turn things around given the abysmal quality of player we have at the moment but it will buy another year for JD which is all that matters to him.

chicorytip

AGC wrote:

And showing some respect to the media in general when they have every right to question you

If that's a prerequisite for the job, McCarthy is not a suitable candidate.

chicorytip

tastyt wrote:

And this thing about writing managers off for not doing great in one or two jobs is a real British / Irish thing. Look at the likes of sarri at Chelsea who has had about a hundred jobs, not all massive successes, and other coaches on the continent.

Sarri worked in banking at a senior level and only became a full time coach in recent years managing two lower level teams to success before joining Napoli.

ebbsy

The danger is with us being a host, they will not look long term.

tonycascarino

ebbsy wrote: »

The danger is with us being a host, they will not look long term.

There is no hope the FAI are looking long term. Whoever is appointed will be appointed to get us to the Euros and whatever about after that.