O'Neill Gone - Next Rep Ireland Manager?

AGC

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm well aware of Delaneys flaws

I'm just sick of people's trying to have it both ways when it comes to these things.

McCarthy = oh Delaney just wants to get to Euro 2020.

Kenny = Can't afford anyone else cos of JDs salary.

It's lazy analysis and tired at this stage.

It’s football, regardless of the level people will have an opinion on who should be managers and the reasons why they might be picked. You’ll never get universal agreement.

The one thing that is becoming universal minus a few is that the hierarchy must change.

http://indo.ie/Zuka30mIePC

Fr Tod Umptious

AGC wrote: »

It’s football, regardless of the level people will have an opinion on who should be managers and the reasons why they might be picked. You’ll never get universal agreement.

The one thing that is becoming universal minus a few is that the hierarchy must change.

http://indo.ie/Zuka30mIePC

The poster I was referring to was giving out about McCarthy getting the job because all Delaney was worried about was 2020.

Does the poster not think that a hell of a lot of the rest of us would love to see Ireland in Euro 2020 also and would welcome a manager than gave us the best chance to get there ?

As I said it's tired at this stage to cast a negative spin on each and every move the FAI makes, as some like to do here

briany

Has JD responded on the increasing calls for him to resign?

Fr Tod Umptious

briany wrote: »

Has JD responded on the increasing calls for him to resign?

Of course not and if he did all he would say is that he will leave such decisions up the the FAI executive, board, committee or whatever.

AGC

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The poster I was referring to was giving out about McCarthy getting the job because all Delaney was worried about was 2020.

Does the poster not think that a hell of a lot of the rest of us would love to see Ireland in Euro 2020 also and would welcome a manager than gave us the best chance to get there ?

As I said it's tired at this stage to cast a negative spin on each and every move the FAI makes, as some like to do here

Everyone would love to see Ireland at 2020 but if sacrificing it for a sustainable long term plan across Irish football which would lead to the senior team being more successful, even competing at the moment would be more important to many, including me.

For that to happen there has to be change.

OldMrBrennan83

AGC wrote: »

Everyone would love to see Ireland at 2020 but if sacrificing it for a sustainable long term plan across Irish football which would lead to the senior team being more successful, even competing at the moment would be more important to many, including me.

But we're hosting the European Championships (that everyone else is hosting too).

Fr Tod Umptious

AGC wrote: »

Everyone would love to see Ireland at 2020 but if sacrificing it for a sustainable long term plan across Irish football which would lead to the senior team being more successful, even competing at the moment would be more important to many, including me.

For that to happen there has to be change.

I understand totally but in reality you are in the minority there

Like a lot of sports in Ireland the pull of the bandwagon is strong.

AGC

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I understand totally but in reality you are in the minority there

Like a lot of sports in Ireland the pull of the bandwagon is strong.

Finally we agree on something!!

kippy

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I understand totally but in reality you are in the minority there

Like a lot of sports in Ireland the pull of the bandwagon is strong.

Just because the poster is in the minority on this thread does not mean they are in the minority of "soccer people" in the general population.
There have been a number of these people speaking out about the FAI and JD in the last few days which makes me suspect the narrative and opinion against the FAI and JD amount the general populace may have changed and more that just a managerial change is required.

weldoninhio

sheroman01 wrote: »

Really though? How can things actually get worse? In 2018 alone, we have 1 win, 4 goals and an average of 36% possession over 9 games. We're playing terrible football, didn't qualify for the last world cup and just got relegated from the Nations League. Add to that the hostility between O'Neill and the press, and the fallout with some players. Things cannot get worse. I'm not saying Kenny would be savior, but given how we're low we are, it's a good time to give someone new and different a chance. If we get McCarthy, I'll be so underwhelmed.

Jesus, I wouldn’t want you in the trenches with me. Things can’t get worse?? You’d swear we’d been turned over by San Marino and Gibraltar. How many tournaments have Scotland qualified for in the last 15/20 years?? Have they been better or worse off than us over the last few years?? We had a bad year under a dinosaur who had no plan b, and a lot of the time lacked a plan a.

What happens if Kenny comes in makes a complete balls of it and we end up in pot 4 for the WC qualifiers, would that be better or worse??

Mr.Nice Guy

Was reading this thread from six years ago when the search for a manager to replace Trap was under way:

Who are the candidates for the Ireland job?

Funny how history repeats itself. Back then O'Neill was 'the man on the street' choice, despite the fact his style of football was not going to be a significant upgrade on Trap's style. The same can be said today of McCarthy, whose style of play at Ipswich was putrid and drove many fans to stay away.

You also had the candidate associated with the LOI, with a brief spell in Scotland, which back then was Pat Fenlon. Now it's Stephen Kenny.

And then there was the unpalatable, outsider option, which back then was Roy Keane. And now appears to be Sam Allardyce.

Personally I can't warm to any of the talked-about options. To me it's just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Our problems are far deeper than who is at the helm of the doomed liner.

What I will say is that if we're going down the road of hiring an experienced coach, and not regarding attractiveness as a priority, which is what a McCarthy appointment will represent, then why on earth not go the whole hog and appoint Allardyce, who is a far better exponent of this type of football than McCarthy? Reports appear to suggest he's interested, and there's not a Premier League club that if faced with the option of McCarthy or Allardyce, would go with the former.

I can only conclude people are being blinded by nostalgia over the 01-02 pre Saipan years. But we had a far better squad of players back then than we do now. I think those who expect a big difference in our approach are in for a rude awakening. I reckon within a year he will be getting the same level of flak that Trap and Mon were. And don't expect the media, or the wider public, to take too kindly to Mick's curt dismissal of their questions.

Banjaxed82

Besides Kenny, why is Mick the only short term option for the FAI? That's it?

I really hope the reason doesn't boil down to JD not want to be embarrassed by having no manager in place for the draw in Dublin next week...

That is the reason for the speed of this appointment, isn't it? Self preservation... Again

alta stare

If it is Mick i think he will get them going. Id still like to see Lennon come in.

briany

Give Phillipe Troussier a bell. He might take the job for a warm meal once a day and somewhere safe to sleep at night.

Corholio

Every manager is a risk. I don't know why that's specifically towards a Kenny appointment. The way some go on about 'he wont be able to handle big players or they won't 'respect' him' you'd swear he was managing a different sport altogether, or that managers never actually move up in their profession. O'Neill was a risk because he'd never managed international either and was well known for constantly signing players, something he obviously couldn't do at Ireland. Every manager has pros and cons.

There's loads of big 'names' who would supposedly command respect and 'convince' players who are shocking managers who wouldn't get results regardless of their 'standing'

Laois_Man

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I can only conclude people are being blinded by nostalgia over the 01-02 pre Saipan years. But we had a far better squad of players back then than we do now.

We had a far better squad of players back then because Mick McCarthy built up a strong squad of players - which is exactly what we need him to do again with players from the good youth teams that are coming thru.

People easily forget, apart from 2-3, maybe 4 players, what McCarthy inherited from Jack Charlton was a squad whose players were, over the hill - and some were actually useless. McCarthy didn't inherit Keane (Robbie), Duff, Dunne, Given, Carr, Finnan, Harte etc.

Now we need him to do it again with the likes of Troy Parrot, Adam Idah, Glen McAuley, Aaron Connolly, Conor Masterson, Lee O’Connor, Ryan Nolan, Caoimhin Kelleher, Kieran O'Hara, Gavin Bazunu, Michael Obafemi and hopefully Declan Rice - along with others as they emerge over time!

Mr.Nice Guy

Laois_Man wrote: »

We had a far better squad of players back then because Mick McCarthy built up a strong squad of players - which is exactly what we need him to do again with players from the good youth teams that are coming thru.

People easily forget, apart from 2-3, maybe 4 players, what McCarthy inherited from Jack Charlton was a squad whose players were, over the hill - and some were actually useless. McCarthy didn't inherit Keane (Robbie), Duff, Dunne, Given, Carr, Finnan, Harte etc.

Now we need him to do it again with the likes of Troy Parrot, Adam Idah, Glen McAuley, Aaron Connolly, Conor Masterson, Lee O’Connor, Ryan Nolan, Caoimhin Kelleher, Kieran O'Hara, Gavin Bazunu, Michael Obafemi and hopefully Declan Rice - along with others as they emerge over time!

Mick was responsible for the development of the youth players? Nothing to do with Brian Kerr then?

Laois_Man

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Mick was responsible for the development of the youth players? Nothing to do with Brian Kerr then?

Not as senior internationals, no! Especially those that never actually played under Kerr before becoming senior internationals under McCarthy!

yabadabado

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

The poster I was referring to was giving out about McCarthy getting the job because all Delaney was worried about was 2020.

Does the poster not think that a hell of a lot of the rest of us would love to see Ireland in Euro 2020 also and would welcome a manager than gave us the best chance to get there ?

As I said it's tired at this stage to cast a negative spin on each and every move the FAI makes, as some like to do here

When the FAI start making positive moves then plenty of people will give them their dues.

O Neill signed a new contact in January and within the year he is sacked .The time to move O'neill on was this time last year.Give the new man the NL to implement his own ideas.Instead the FAI part ways with him and give him a pay out 11 months later when we are arguably at our worse level in decades ,should this be applauded as some masterstroke?

I have no problem giving praise when its due, problem is the FAI has been a **** show for years.

All I want is a decent national side,a league and grassroots set up that is actually given more than a passing nod by the national association.


I pity anyone that follows Irish football who doesn't see the current set up of the FAI than anything but a major problem.

yabadabado

Laois_Man wrote: »

We had a far better squad of players back then because Mick McCarthy built up a strong squad of players - which is exactly what we need him to do again with players from the good youth teams that are coming thru.

People easily forget, apart from 2-3, maybe 4 players, what McCarthy inherited from Jack Charlton was a squad whose players were, over the hill - and some were actually useless. McCarthy didn't inherit Keane (Robbie), Duff, Dunne, Given, Carr, Finnan, Harte etc.

Now we need him to do it again with the likes of Troy Parrot, Adam Idah, Glen McAuley, Aaron Connolly, Conor Masterson, Lee O’Connor, Ryan Nolan, Caoimhin Kelleher, Kieran O'Hara, Gavin Bazunu, Michael Obafemi and hopefully Declan Rice - along with others as they emerge over time!

Most of the players you mentioned there are unlikely to be involved in the next 2 years imo.
Troy Parrott will be 17 in February so is very unlikely to be seen before 2022 WC qualifiers unless he makes unreal strikes in the next year.

Need to be looking at lads who are on the verge of making a club breakthrough soon.I don't think any manager I'd going to risk players who are nt even playing reserves at the moment.

The players Mick brought in previously all had played for their clubs at a good level when they were called up.
For me the two with the most realistic chances are Obafemi and Connolly provided they go out on loan in January and get games.

I'd expect the new manager to look into granny rule a bit more than MON did.Few descents prospects there if they are pursued.

weldoninhio

yabadabado wrote: »

When the FAI start making positive moves then plenty of people will give them their dues.

O Neill signed a new contact in January and within the year he is sacked .The time to move O'neill on was this time last year.Give the new man the NL to implement his own ideas.Instead the FAI part ways with him and give him a pay out 11 months later when we are arguably at our worse level in decades ,should this be applauded as some masterstroke?

I have no problem giving praise when its due, problem is the FAI has been a **** show for years.

All I want is a decent national side,a league and grassroots set up that is actually given more than a passing nod by the national association.


I pity anyone that follows Irish football who doesn't see the current set up of the FAI than anything but a major problem.

And if the FAI had waited and we beat Denmark, went on to have a half decent WC, then O’Neill left for Stoke because we hadn’t tied him down who’s fault would that be??

yabadabado

weldoninhio wrote: »

And if the FAI had waited and we beat Denmark, went on to have a half decent WC, then O’Neill left for Stoke because we hadn’t tied him down who’s fault would that be??

They only officially signed the contract in January, I doubt the verbal agreement in October meant much to either party.

If MON moved on after a good showing at the WC I'd have been happy,see him go out on top,leaving a good legacy .I wouldn't have blamed the FAI.This happens constantly in football ,its the nature of the business.

weldoninhio

yabadabado wrote: »

They only officially signed the contract in January, I doubt the verbal agreement in October meant much to either party.

If MON moved on after a good showing at the WC I'd have been happy,see him go out on top,leaving a good legacy .I wouldn't have blamed the FAI.This happens constantly in football ,its the nature of the business.

Of course you would.

yabadabado

weldoninhio wrote: »

Of course you would.

Do you want to expand on that?

weldoninhio

yabadabado wrote: »

Do you want to expand on that?

If what i'd said happened, and O'Neill was allowed leave for Stoke for free, there would have been the exact same uproar against the FAI for letting it happen. To try and say otherwise is disingenuous.

AGC

weldoninhio wrote: »

And if the FAI had waited and we beat Denmark, went on to have a half decent WC, then O’Neill left for Stoke because we hadn’t tied him down who’s fault would that be??

If me granny had balls

We got stuffed by Denmark, that's the bottom line.

An obvious hybrid would be to have contracts very incentivised and based on where we finish in qualifying groups, playoffs and major finals. It sounds like they just got a flat, HUGE, salary. Now that's just dumb.

Banjaxed82

weldoninhio wrote: »

If what i'd said happened, and O'Neill was allowed leave for Stoke for free, there would have been the exact same uproar against the FAI for letting it happen. To try and say otherwise is disingenuous.

If we are talking about "what ifs" here, if we had managed to qualify for World Cup (and given our decline in form) I shudder to think how that would have panned out.

yabadabado

weldoninhio wrote: »

If what i'd said happened, and O'Neill was allowed leave for Stoke for free, there would have been the exact same uproar against the FAI for letting it happen. To try and say otherwise is disingenuous.

Not sure there would if it was handled properly.

Leaving on a high note there would have been plenty of goodwill to all involved imo.

lawred2

weldoninhio wrote: »

And if the FAI had waited and we beat Denmark, went on to have a half decent WC, then O’Neill left for Stoke because we hadn’t tied him down who’s fault would that be??

What value is such supposition?

Ireland lost 5-1 at home in one of the worst home displays that I can remember.

A footballing and tactical sh!t show.

The Irish set up never recovered after that. MON and Keano were a busted flush. Add to that the worrying leaks from the camp which showed significant discord amongst the players.. Keane Arter, Keane Walters, the Declan Rice nonsense...

Subsequently we hear Matt Doherty saying that new players hadn't a clue what they were supposed to do and that training consisted of 5 a side kickabouts..

Jesus has there been even one semi positive story regarding this Irish set up since that game?

Obafemi maybe but who knows how that will work out..

Berserker

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Besides Kenny, why is Mick the only short term option for the FAI? That's it?

Big Sam has declared his interest in the job, so he'd have to be considered as a short term option.

briany wrote: »

Give Phillipe Troussier a bell. He might take the job for a warm meal once a day and somewhere safe to sleep at night.

He'd probably be the most expensive option then, given the price of property in Dublin.

Corholio wrote: »

Every manager is a risk. I don't know why that's specifically towards a Kenny appointment.

Because he has no experience managing beyond the LoI, which is comparable to the League 1/2 in the UK. You are dealing with a different calibre of player and the media scrutiny is far more intense.

Cienciano

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Besides Kenny, why is Mick the only short term option for the FAI? That's it?

I really hope the reason doesn't boil down to JD not want to be embarrassed by having no manager in place for the draw in Dublin next week...

That is the reason for the speed of this appointment, isn't it? Self preservation... Again

That's exactly it, and that's why so many people want Delaney gone. McCarthy is the easy choice, I like the guy, but I guarantee in 3 years when we all want him gone we'll be all wondering why we got McCarthy back in the first place, and at that stage Delaney will have gotten over €1m in wages

AGC

Very strange statement by St. Pats backing Kenny

jmayo

According to the Mirror yesterday these are the odds

Here are those in the running for the Ireland job:

Mick McCarthy - 8/11
Stephen Kenny - 13/8
Neil Lennon - 14/1
Sam Allardyce - 14/1
Roy Keane - 16/1
Steve Bruce - 16/1
Brian Kerr - 20/1
Chris Coleman - 25/1
Chris Hughton - 25/1
Damien Duff - 25/1
Garry Monk - 25/1
Harry Redknapp - 25/1
Lee Carsley - 25/1
Michael O'Neill - 25/1
Nigel Pearson - 25/1
Paul Cook - 25/1
Paul Lambert - 25/1
Steve McClaren - 25/1
Sven Goran Eriksson - 25/1

Who the hell set these because there is no way Roy Keane should be there or that Brian Kerr is not a 200/1 shot.
The rest, bar one or two like Carsley, reads like a list of journeymen managers.
And Carlos Queiroz wasn't even listed.

BTW the article is based around Arrry Rednapp.

Does anyone know when that jungle thing is meant to end.
Like if he won it would he make it back for the Euro draw.

Paully D

There’s a lot of chat in here about potential managers being short term options or being dismissed because they’re not for the long term.

It’s not really the job of an international football manager to worry about the youth structure or overall development. That’s the FAI’s job and concern.

The vast majority of international managers have around a two tournament cycle lifespan with the brief of qualifying for those tournaments at all costs.

The next Ireland manager should be the man best placed to get us to Euro 2020 and World Cup 2022. That should be the only consideration.

dfx-

weldoninhio wrote: »

The international manager is not employed to have an interest in underage or domestic football. He is there to get to tournaments.

This is such an odd detachment that prevails in Ireland. It's the major success of the FAI. Is there any successful international team that employs that sort of approach?

What's the point of having underage football teams if the first team manager is not interested..

yabadabado

jmayo wrote: »

According to the Mirror yesterday these are the odds

Here are those in the running for the Ireland job:

Mick McCarthy - 8/11
Stephen Kenny - 13/8
Neil Lennon - 14/1
Sam Allardyce - 14/1
Roy Keane - 16/1
Steve Bruce - 16/1
Brian Kerr - 20/1
Chris Coleman - 25/1
Chris Hughton - 25/1
Damien Duff - 25/1
Garry Monk - 25/1
Harry Redknapp - 25/1
Lee Carsley - 25/1
Michael O'Neill - 25/1
Nigel Pearson - 25/1
Paul Cook - 25/1
Paul Lambert - 25/1
Steve McClaren - 25/1
Sven Goran Eriksson - 25/1

Who the hell set these because there is no way Roy Keane should be there or that Brian Kerr is not a 200/1 shot.
The rest, bar one or two like Carsley, reads like a list of journeymen managers.
And Carlos Queiroz wasn't even listed.

BTW the article is based around Arrry Rednapp.

Does anyone know when that jungle thing is meant to end.
Like if he won it would he make it back for the Euro draw.

I'd pass no heed on The Mirror and those manager markets are small ,very easy for bookies to add or slash prices to get a bit of interest in the market.

Iang87

dfx- wrote: »

This is such an odd detachment that prevails in Ireland. It's the major success of the FAI. Is there any successful international team that employs that sort of approach?

What's the point of having underage football teams if the first team manager is not interested..

Couldn't agree more with you here.

Germany/Spain in the early 2000s, Belgians in the mid 2000s and england in recent years all invested heavily in youth and having proper youth structures along with established styles of play they each wanted.

Thanks to all that investment and forward planning. They all got lucky and created players for their senior manager who didn't understand or care about these structures :rolleyes:.

Paully D

Iang87 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more with you here.

Germany/Spain in the early 2000s, Belgians in the mid 2000s and england in recent years all invested heavily in youth and having proper youth structures along with established styles of play they each wanted.

Thanks to all that investment and forward planning. They all got lucky and created players for their senior manager who didn't understand or care about these structures :rolleyes:.

But it was their Football Associations that implemented that, not their international managers of the time. The same way it's not the incoming Ireland manager's job or concern to do it when he's appointed either. It's the FAI's.

Whoever comes in, no matter how successful, is more than likely going to be gone in 4 years after two tournament cycles. How much involvement or success could he realistically have with regards to youth development in that period of time anyway? That side of things needs a very long-term focus, whereas international management is the definition of short-term with major tournaments on a bi-annual basis.

It's surely the FAI's job to ensure that there's a constant conveyor belt of as much talent as possible coming through?

tonycascarino

AGC wrote: »

Very strange statement by St. Pats backing Kenny

Back him away. He hasn't a hope of getting the job in reality. The likes of Mick and Sam's credentials are poles apart from someone who has only ever really managed in the League of Ireland. Outside of that he was sacked by Dunfermline in Scotland. Delaney isn't going to go for a risk appointment either. Easy decision.

Strumms

What do people think of Chris Hughton ? I like his style, he has good coaching and managing experience. I think the players would like working with him probably and he seems a fair enough yet no bull**** sort of character. Of everyone linked for these reasons and some others to me he seems like the most realistic and credible candidate linked so far,

Duff

Strumms wrote: »

What do people think of Chris Hughton ? I like his style, he has good coaching and managing experience. I think the players would like working with him probably and he seems a fair enough yet no bull**** sort of character. Of everyone linked for these reasons and some others to me he seems like the most realistic and credible candidate linked so far,

He'd be a fantastic appointment but he's doing very well at Brighton and no way would he want to leave, and you can't blame him.

tonycascarino

Strumms wrote: »

What do people think of Chris Hughton ? I like his style, he has good coaching and managing experience.

Not a hope he will leave a Premiership job to manage Ireland. Ireland will only get managers where little to no compensation will need to be paid. In any case, Hughton said he wasn't interested at the moment.

lawred2

Strumms wrote: »

What do people think of Chris Hughton ? I like his style, he has good coaching and managing experience. I think the players would like working with him probably and he seems a fair enough yet no bull**** sort of character. Of everyone linked for these reasons and some others to me he seems like the most realistic and credible candidate linked so far,

doubt he'd take the paycut

Strumms

Good points, as regards a pay cut the trade off would certainly be less money for less work let’s remember. Might just suit the guy.

yabadabado

Strumms wrote: »

What do people think of Chris Hughton ? I like his style, he has good coaching and managing experience. I think the players would like working with him probably and he seems a fair enough yet no bull**** sort of character. Of everyone linked for these reasons and some others to me he seems like the most realistic and credible candidate linked so far,

He would be an excellent appointment but he's no interest in it now.Hes said it before he'd like to manage us at some stage .7 or 8 years time will be when he'd want to come in.

AAAAAAAAA

lawred2 wrote: »

doubt he'd take the paycut

is it a paycut though? he was only earning 550k a season before his new contract, and we were paying martinho 1.8m a year

Amirani

Strumms wrote: »

What do people think of Chris Hughton ? I like his style, he has good coaching and managing experience. I think the players would like working with him probably and he seems a fair enough yet no bull**** sort of character. Of everyone linked for these reasons and some others to me he seems like the most realistic and credible candidate linked so far,

He's already confirmed that he's not interested in leaving Brighton at the moment.

jmayo

Amirani wrote: »

He's already confirmed that he's not interested in leaving Brighton at the moment.

Maybe he might be picky about the kind of guys he likes to work for.

sjb25

Mick McCarty in the next 48hrs apparently

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/12020/11561475/fai-hopeful-of-mick-mccarthy-deal-in-next-48-hours