John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

Richard Hillman

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Sweetness lads. I'm not going to get my hopes up of seeing Delaney in cuffs but well... I'm going to dream anyway.

Mmmmmm, Delaney in cuffs, candles, Johnson's Baby Oil...I like where you're going. And he does need a little discipline, he's been a very naughty boy.

Wait...that WAS where you were going...right?

osarusan

There must be a 'Put the celebrity behind bars' app or website somewhere that allows you to upload an image and it will do the rest.

irishgeo

The latest from the times is that FAI spent 69k on Johns 50th birthday party. No wonder they flew in some model for it.

expectationlost

irishgeo wrote: »

No wonder they flew in some model for it.

no they didn't

HalloweenJack

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/1202/1096454-management-crisis-at-fai-as-foley-declines-interim-role/

No replacement for Mooney for the time being. He knows he was going to face a mountain of resistance and can't be arsed.

Think the whole thing should just be torn down at this stage and started from scratch. The current members have no interest in chaging anything.

Quote from the link:

Ultimately, it was not clear that the support for my appointment across key stakeholders was at the level required for me to succeed on delivering on the huge challenges to be faced by the Association in the coming months.

Cienciano

yabadabado wrote: »

What funding do sporting bodies get in Ireland ?
What were FAI getting compared to GAA or rugby before all was withheld?

The facilities at most LoI grounds are poor but clubs have much bigger priorities than spending on upgrading their grounds.

Many clubs are basically living week to week.

A good friend of mine is involved in a LoI side ,some of the things he has told me about the lack of resources is unbelievable.
They can barely keep the lights on or pay for basic stuff and he says they are far from a unique case.

Goodwill from creditors and a few people giving their own cash ties them over most seasons .

I knew a guy who worked in the Department of Sport dealing with grant applications, he said that the grand applications from the GAA were always perfectly done and soccer ones were comically bad.

Umaro

HalloweenJack wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/1202/1096454-management-crisis-at-fai-as-foley-declines-interim-role/

No replacement for Mooney for the time being. He knows he was going to face a mountain of resistance and can't be arsed.

Think the whole thing should just be torn down at this stage and started from scratch. The current members have no interest in chaging anything.

Quote from the link:

Ultimately, it was not clear that the support for my appointment across key stakeholders was at the level required for me to succeed on delivering on the huge challenges to be faced by the Association in the coming months.

Says it all really - nobody with a clean reputation would want to take this on. It's a poisoned chalice. On the verge of collapsing with debt, government funding cut off, the audited accounts are going to be jawdropping once they come out, and theres plenty of JD style chancers operating their fiefdoms within the organisation.

Also the short term success is so dependent on qualification for tournaments, something that we've been struggling at even with UEFA lowering the barrier to entry.

Mickeroo

The Good Ole Boys wrote: »

<deleted post>

Don't post in this thread again.

expectationlost

so which gombeem football officials don't want an outsider as CEO?

Just An Opinion

expectationlost wrote: »

so which gombeem football officials don't want an outsider as CEO?

Those with graveyard wardrobes. This sham of an organization is on death row. Until it is completely dismantled and a total rebuild begins nobody with an ounce of credibility will touch it.

expectationlost

expectationlost wrote: »

so which gombeem football officials don't want an outsider as CEO?

Gavin Cooney

@gcooney93






Statement from Shane Ross and Brendan Griffin says that the FAI's next CEO should be 'independent of any present or past involvement in the FAI'. That may be what did for John Foley, who was elected as independent director to National League executive in 2007.

oh,i thought it was the people who renominated Conway didn't want an athletics person

more explanation in the IT https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/fai-frustration-grows-over-political-interference-in-how-association-does-its-business-1.4102473?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Dots1982

I think those that think the FAI can be dismantled and rebuilt stronger will be proved wrong.

The FAI is likely to just downsize to the level of an Albanian FA as there’s no money there for it or no substantial assets for it to use as a foothold to rebuild.

The idea that it can come back better and stronger seems to be just an idea thrown out with no explanation of how that would actually occur.

Just An Opinion

Dots1982 wrote: »

I think those that think the FAI can be dismantled and rebuilt stronger will be proved wrong.

The FAI is likely to just downsize to the level of an Albanian FA as there’s no money there for it or no substantial assets for it to use as a foothold to rebuild.

The idea that it can come back better and stronger seems to be just an idea thrown out with no explanation of how that would actually occur.

I wouldn’t be confident it can be rebuilt stronger and better at all. My point is the current cesspit needs to be dismantled simply because it’s a horrendously tainted and irreparable entity now. In fact the FAI were never a beacon of corporate integrity, but Delaney managed to take it from a wafting fart to full blown diarrhea.

Zebra3

UEFA urging the FAI to sell its’ share in Lansdowne to the IRFU.

osarusan

Doesn't sole ownership revert back to the IRFU at some point in the future anyway?

Dots1982

osarusan wrote: »

Doesn't sole ownership revert back to the IRFU at some point in the future anyway?

Well yeah, 40 or so years from now when it’s in need of being redeveloped anyway.

In the meantime they’ll sell their share of naming rights and events like concerts for the future.

It would be a strategy of long term pain for short term survival.

osarusan

I would think the IRFU would be in no hurry to buy it, or willing to spend a lot on it, but might be wrong.

Although of course, the FAI are in a terrible position in terms of negotiations over price.

check_six

Maybe someone can explain this a bit better to me, but as I understood it, the IRFU owns the stadium and the FAI is paying them a whole heap of money to lease it. Now, instead of the FAI paying the IRFU loads of money for the use of the stadium, they want the IRFU to pay the FAI that pile of money instead to get them out of a hole?

Is that the plan? They want the IRFU to pay them effectively double what they were paying to them for the use of the stadium? (Taking into account the loss of revenue and the extra cost).

Have I got that right??

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

The FAI should be disbanded completely and started afresh with a proper constitution/mission statement.

They have never gotten anything done anyway. They only existed to pay the board members.

- They don't even own the Aviva.
- They couldn't afford the full pay of the manager.
- We rely on England to scout and develop Irish football talent.
- The Irish League gets no help from them. That's where the rest of Irish football talent is developed.
- The government gives grant's and funding to underage and womens football.

The FAI can be burnt to the ground and football would continue on as it is. Maybe even things would go better with no football association, because I don't think it could be any worse.

Zebra3

check_six wrote: »

Maybe someone can explain this a bit better to me, but as I understood it, the IRFU owns the stadium and the FAI is paying them a whole heap of money to lease it. Now, instead of the FAI paying the IRFU loads of money for the use of the stadium, they want the IRFU to pay the FAI that pile of money instead to get them out of a hole?

Is that the plan? They want the IRFU to pay them effectively double what they were paying to them for the use of the stadium? (Taking into account the loss of revenue and the extra cost).

Have I got that right??

The IRFU own the land the stadium is built on.

When the new stadium opened, ownership was shared 50/50 with full ownership reverting to the IRFU after 60 years.

Similar thing happened in Munich when 1860 went into financial trouble, Bayern took over full ownership of the Allianz Arena.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

check_six wrote: »

Maybe someone can explain this a bit better to me, but as I understood it, the IRFU owns the stadium and the FAI is paying them a whole heap of money to lease it. Now, instead of the FAI paying the IRFU loads of money for the use of the stadium, they want the IRFU to pay the FAI that pile of money instead to get them out of a hole?

Is that the plan? They want the IRFU to pay them effectively double what they were paying to them for the use of the stadium? (Taking into account the loss of revenue and the extra cost).

Have I got that right??

The IRFU and the FAI went splits on paying for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. They cut a deal then where the FAI would co own the Aviva for X number of years. Then full ownership would revert back to the IRFU.

It was a deal with only upside for the IRFU and only downside for the FAI.

Thanks JD.

Dots1982

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The FAI should be disbanded completely and started afresh with a proper constitution/mission statement.

They have never gotten anything done anyway. They only existed to pay the board members.

- They don't even own the Aviva.
- They couldn't afford the full pay of the manager.
- We rely on England to scout and develop Irish football talent.
- The Irish League gets no help from them. That's where the rest of Irish football talent is developed.
- The government gives grant's and funding to underage and womens football.

The FAI can be burnt to the ground and football would continue on as it is. Maybe even things would go better with no football association, because I don't think it could be any worse.

Well we’d cease to be a member of FIFA and UEFA with no football association so we can look forward to wins over The Isle of Man and draws with the Basque region.

Fr Tod Umptious

Dots1982 wrote: »

I think those that think the FAI can be dismantled and rebuilt stronger will be proved wrong.

The FAI is likely to just downsize to the level of an Albanian FA as there’s no money there for it or no substantial assets for it to use as a foothold to rebuild.

The idea that it can come back better and stronger seems to be just an idea thrown out with no explanation of how that would actually occur.

I've said it before here or some other thread.

The FAI just don't have the depth of revenue generation in this country that the other two major associations have.

The GAA has very deep roots locally. Supporters spend money on going to games, club and county merchandise, local and national fundraising. Plus it's amateur so there are no player contracts.

The IRFU traditionally have affluent supporters and benefactors.
They can and they do charge higher prices for tickets to international games than the FAI regardless of how good or bad the team is going.
Plus the fee paying schools with all their resources provide the academys for future international players.

But the FAI are stuck.
They don't have the local network of the GAA not the money of the IRFU.
And the majority of money spent by soccer supporters in Ireland goes to British club merchandise, British club tickets, and British TV company subscriptions.

So a complete rebuild FAI will be a very lean entity.

jack presley

Dots1982 wrote: »

Well we’d cease to be a member of FIFA and UEFA with no football association so we can look forward to wins over The Isle of Man and draws with the Basque region.

1-0 wins of course.

Awesomeness

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I've said it before here or some other thread.

The FAI just don't have the depth of revenue generation in this country that the other two major associations have.

The GAA has very deep roots locally. Supporters spend money on going to games, club and county merchandise, local and national fundraising. Plus it's amateur so there are no player contracts.

The IRFU traditionally have affluent supporters and benefactors.
They can and they do charge higher prices for tickets to international games than the FAI regardless of how good or bad the team is going.
Plus the fee paying schools with all their resources provide the academys for future international players.

But the FAI are stuck.
They don't have the local network of the GAA not the money of the IRFU.
And the majority of money spent by soccer supporters in Ireland goes to British club merchandise, British club tickets, and British TV company subscriptions.

So a complete rebuild FAI will be a very lean entity.

Would have a bit more if they were not paying delaneys rent, expenses and money to his misses.

Or 500 grand to somebody for coming up with the idea of a walk

Irishmale0399

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019/1203/1096675-frustrated-shane-ross-wants-complete-cleanout-at-fai/

Ross keeping the pressure on....

Dots1982

If you get a complete regime change at the FAI all those people will require a severance package and pensions still paid into.

If you go about hiring new staff all those people will need to be identified, interviewed, vetted, recruited. That’s expensive.

If you change the name of the FAI and rebrand it that will also cost a stack of money.

Someone said this situation would lead to a leaner FAI. I think it’s more likely it leads to an anorexic organisation on life support. The FAI Was never really a bloated Organisation. It has around the same amount of development officers in the entire country that the GAA has in just Dublin.

I saw a journo said the FAI need to rebrand like swimming ireland or the Olympic body in Ireland. Having a toxic brand like those two associations did is one thing. Having a toxic brand for an association that is insolvent without drawing down early money from UEFA is quite another.

I really don’t think many are grasping the extent of the crisis the FAI are facing here. It could take 20 years for soccer to recover in Ireland.

HalloweenJack

So "doing it will be expensive so let's just not do it"? Am I getting that right? We just accept the chancers that we have in place because it'll cost money to do otherwise.

It could take 20 years for soccer to recover in Ireland.

Do you believe football is thriving at the moment?

Zebra3

AFAIK, board members of the FAI aren't employees. Therefore no severance packages needed.

Most are out of touch men beyond middle age there for the freebies and the access.

Hanging in for dear life so they don't miss out on the Great Gravy Train of 2020.

Dots1982

HalloweenJack wrote: »

So "doing it will be expensive so let's just not do it"? Am I getting that right? We just accept the chancers that we have in place because it'll cost money to do otherwise.

Do you believe football is thriving at the moment?

Do you think they have money to do it?

HalloweenJack

Dots1982 wrote: »

Do you think they have money to do it?

They'll be saving JD's salary, the rent for his gaff plus his expenses account for one. That's already a decent amount.

Who knows how much money there really is available seeing as they appear to have been fiddling the accounts for some time.

If we qualify for the Euros, there will be a large amount to come in but I'd rather changes were made before that happens (if it happens) as I have no doubt whatsoever the current shower will just hold onto it for themselves.

By the way...

Do you believe football is thriving at the moment?

Dots1982

HalloweenJack wrote: »

They'll be saving JD's salary, the rent for his gaff plus his expenses account for one. That's already a decent amount.

Who knows how much money there really is available seeing as they appear to have been fiddling the accounts for some time.

If we qualify for the Euros, there will be a large amount to come in but I'd rather changes were made before that happens (if it happens) as I have no doubt whatsoever the current shower will just hold onto it for themselves.

By the way...

I’d have a read of this to familiarize yourself with how large the debt bomb the FAI is facing.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/delay-in-signing-off-fai-accounts-as-debt-set-to-surge-above-50million-38716317.html

Football isn’t thriving in Ireland. It never has. It probably never will. The reasons for that are ingrained in the social fabric of the country for the past 100 years.

u140acro3xs7dm

Paul Cooke has now taken the job - total farce.

BDI

Jad Small Birdseed wrote: »

Paul Cooke has now taken the job - total farce.

I’m not too up to date on the board members. Is he just another one of the lads from John Delaneys local?

yabadabado

Cooke should be ok but it's an interim job again so he probably has little power to implement change.

He definitely isnt one of JDs cronies ,so that is some help.

HalloweenJack

Dots1982 wrote: »

I’d have a read of this to familiarize yourself with how large the debt bomb the FAI is facing.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/delay-in-signing-off-fai-accounts-as-debt-set-to-surge-above-50million-38716317.html

I am well aware of the level of debt. And? We should stick with the guys who are responsible for it?

Football isn’t thriving in Ireland. It never has. It probably never will. The reasons for that are ingrained in the social fabric of the country for the past 100 years.

To give you one example, attendances at the LOI used to be larger. It's a different time, I know, and I doubt it'll return but to say that "it never has" is ridiculous. Then there was a period where Irish players were regularly playing for the top teams in England which is far from the case. These changes are part of the wider changes in football, that is not the FAI's fault. However, they were happy to get rich off it and have failed to respond accordingly to these changes.

On the other hand, the financial difficulties that the FAI are going through are the result of their own decisions, coupled with the lavish spending that we have seen by board members, the lack of scrutiny, the silencing of critics, etc. I think there are plenty of reasons to get rid of this board and start again.

I am not naive enough to think everything will be perfect but I don't see what there is to gain from keeping the same people in charge. We've seen what they can do and look where they've taken us. What case can you possibly have for keeping them other than "it'll cost money"? If it weren't for their incompetence, there would be more money.

Dots1982

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I am well aware of the level of debt. And? We should stick with the guys who are responsible for it?

To give you one example, attendances at the LOI used to be larger. It's a different time, I know, and I doubt it'll return but to say that "it never has" is ridiculous. Then there was a period where Irish players were regularly playing for the top teams in England which is far from the case. These changes are part of the wider changes in football, that is not the FAI's fault. However, they were happy to get rich off it and have failed to respond accordingly to these changes.

On the other hand, the financial difficulties that the FAI are going through are the result of their own decisions, coupled with the lavish spending that we have seen by board members, the lack of scrutiny, the silencing of critics, etc. I think there are plenty of reasons to get rid of this board and start again.

I am not naive enough to think everything will be perfect but I don't see what there is to gain from keeping the same people in charge. We've seen what they can do and look where they've taken us. What case can you possibly have for keeping them other than "it'll cost money"? If it weren't for their incompetence, there would be more money.

Fair enough. We’ll see how it plays out. My main position on this is that the FAI are in a far bigger bind than I think the public know or are admitting to themselves.

Weepsie

Dots1982 wrote: »

I’d have a read of this to familiarize yourself with how large the debt bomb the FAI is facing.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/delay-in-signing-off-fai-accounts-as-debt-set-to-surge-above-50million-38716317.html

Football isn’t thriving in Ireland. It never has. It probably never will. The reasons for that are ingrained in the social fabric of the country for the past 100 years.

On the other hand, you have over 100 million a year being spent by people from Ireland to watch clubs in England and Scotland every year. Something like 200k trips to see clubs abroad.

That doesn't include what people spend on Sky, BT, Premier either.

There is a huge potential fanbase there to tap into, but clubs here have been left to figure it out themselves.

kippy

Weepsie wrote: »

On the other hand, you have over 100 million a year being spent by people from Ireland to watch clubs in England and Scotland every year. Something like 200k trips to see clubs abroad.

That doesn't include what people spend on Sky, BT, Premier either.

There is a huge potential fanbase there to tap into, but clubs here have been left to figure it out themselves.

Will never happen.

salmocab

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The IRFU and the FAI went splits on paying for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. They cut a deal then where the FAI would co own the Aviva for X number of years. Then full ownership would revert back to the IRFU.

It was a deal with only upside for the IRFU and only downside for the FAI.

Thanks JD.

To be absolutely fair the irfu provided the land and paid millions more than the fai for the development, I don’t think the fai actually got that bad a deal as they very much brought a lot less to the table. The 60 year deal also pretty much means that by the time it’s up the stadium would probably be due to be done again.

johnnyryan89

salmocab wrote: »

To be absolutely fair the irfu provided the land and paid millions more than the fai for the development, I don’t think the fai actually got that bad a deal as they very much brought a lot less to the table. The 60 year deal also pretty much means that by the time it’s up the stadium would probably be due to be done again.

FAI basically just paid their rent up front in a big lump sum towards the cost of redevelopment. Though in classic FAI style they made a balls of that putting themselves in massive debt.

salmocab

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

FAI basically just paid their rent up front in a big lump sum towards the cost of redevelopment. Though in classic FAI style they made a balls of that putting themselves in massive debt.

They made an absolute pigs ear of selling the 10 year tickets. If they’d managed that right initially they’d have taken pressure off. I don’t think the stadium deal was a bad deal it was absolutely everything they did afterwards that was wrong.

Fr Tod Umptious

salmocab wrote: »

They made an absolute pigs ear of selling the 10 year tickets. If they’d managed that right initially they’d have taken pressure off. I don’t think the stadium deal was a bad deal it was absolutely everything they did afterwards that was wrong.

Yes the stadium deal was not bad considering the costs of building something themselves elsewhere.

And remember the old LR was demolished in late 2006, slap bang in the middle of the property bubble, there would have been feck all at a decent price around Dublin at the time.

With regard to teh 10 year tickets, I'd cut them some slack for the fact that they ere selling them in 2008 (they could have not sold them any earlier) which was when the recession had hit.

Had that stadium been developed in 2003/2004 they would have sold those 10 years ticket for those prices I believe.

johnnyryan89

salmocab wrote: »

They made an absolute pigs ear of selling the 10 year tickets. If they’d managed that right initially they’d have taken pressure off. I don’t think the stadium deal was a bad deal it was absolutely everything they did afterwards that was wrong.

They made an absolute balls of the 10 year tickets. The stadium deal was a good deal imo, basically give us X amount that we're short and ye can remain here rent free for X amount years.

The fact their 50/50 in the stadium would lead me to think that they also earn money that comes from concerts or whatever events are held in the Aviva. They have to have something like that for UEFA to suggest about selling their share of the stadium back to the IRFU. Because why would the IRFU give them money to buy back what will basically become fully there's again in time.

johnnyryan89

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

With regard to teh 10 year tickets, I'd cut them some slack for the fact that they ere selling them in 2008 (they could have not sold them any earlier) which was when the recession had hit.

Had that stadium been developed in 2003/2004 they would have sold those 10 years ticket for those prices I believe.

They had a ticket company willing to give them the money that they needed for the stadium and taking all the risk of selling the tickets. Not an inch of slack should be given as they put the association into massive debt by being greedy.

Synode

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

The IRFU and the FAI went splits on paying for the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. They cut a deal then where the FAI would co own the Aviva for X number of years. Then full ownership would revert back to the IRFU.

It was a deal with only upside for the IRFU and only downside for the FAI.

Thanks JD.

Wait. What. Have you a link?

grbear

https://web.archive.org/web/20100918151348/http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/sep/12/numbers-dont-add-up/

The FAI and IRFU each own half of the company running the Aviva.
That company has a 60 year lease on the land the stadium is built on.
After 60 years the lease is up and the stadium becomes the IRFUs property.

It now sounds like a bad deal for the FAI because of the way the initial 10 year ticket sales were bungled but if they had managed things properly then they'd have their share of the stadium either paid for or close to paid for at this stage. That'd leave them decades to reap the benefits of finally "owning" a share of their home patch before entering into a new partnership with the IRFU to rebuild the stadium again or trying to build a stadium they own 100%.

yabadabado

Synode wrote: »

Wait. What. Have you a link?

The stadium cost 410m.The government gave 190m towards the cost with the FAI paying about 75m and the IRFU paying the remainder.

Imo it wasnt a bad deal,IRFU owe the site and after 60 years it reverts to their 100% ownership. By that time the stadium will need a revamp .

The absolute massive **** up by JD of turning down the 3rd party deal to sell the tickets for a lump sum is one of the great **** ups of any organisation in this country.


Iirc the cheapest 10 year ticket FAI tried to sell was 12k with that rising to 32k.They sold less than half of the 10000 seats .Its now a flat fee of 5k .
ISG offered to buy up the rights to all the tickets for 75m and take the profit/loss on it .JD knew better !

If it was done right back in 2009/10 they could have taken the money from ISG for the ten year and then had then had the next 5o years of the stadium generating them decent income .

Beechwoodspark

JDs decision to sell off the tickets at a bargain basement fire sale rate is slightly....odd....

Seth Brundle

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

JDs decision to sell off the tickets at a bargain basement fire sale rate is slightly....odd....

Did you ever hear anyone say that JD was a good businessman?