'The Haunting Soldier' sculpture vandalised

RandomName2

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The Irish parliament was peopled by descendants of invaders, but of course you knew that.

Actually you had a bit of a point until you ruined it with 'descendants of invaders'. Let's just call it undemocratic and leave it at that.

animaal wrote: »

Some simpleton running around in the middle of the night with a tin of paint is a "great act of opposition"?

I remember playing Knock and Run as a child. Maybe I should be proud of my great strike for the revolution.

In the same way that the Spire (the replacement for Nelson's column) was defaced with acid based graffiti a couple of years ago. Arseh0les don't need to have political motivation.

Lefty Bicek

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Ah heor, i let it go the first time, as i thought you'd made a mistake.
Alas, it appears you cant even keep up in a thread, so prolific is your posting of gibberish.
Go back and read the context.

Well, the context is straightforward enough.

You brought your family into it. No need to do that, unless for emotive reasons.

Trouble is, it isn't a particularly unique picture you painted and many people who disagree with you could tell the same story as yours.

Lefty Bicek

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Anyway
Simple question.
Do you condemn the vandalism?

Answer:
Yes, because....
Or
No, because...

Forgot to deal with this.

I condemn this particular vandalism because it is private property that was loaned in good faith.

I respect private property.

But I'm not sorry that the boring 'we are mature now' narrative got a kicking.

And the nation has not been shamed.

No-one got hurt, relax.

Roger Hassenforder

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Well, the context is straightforward enough.

You brought your family into it. No need to do that, unless for emotive reasons.

Trouble is, it isn't a particularly unique picture you painted and many people who disagree with you could tell the same story as yours.

Actually, no. I brought other people that fought in WW1.

And well entitled they are to their opinion. the difference is I'll respect their POV, not tell them they're doing it wrong, that they must do as i do.
Its rather presumptious and ignorant of the poster who purported to be some authority on how we cherish or otherwise remember those who fought in WWI.
I never claimed to be unique. As an Irish man, i know i'm not unique. Thus i dont try foist my view on others. That causes problems.


So we're left with the question...
Do you condemn the "vandalism", as you yourself call it?

Fair play, at least you condemn it. We can agree on that. The rest, we can agree to disagree. Its not something I'd be proud of though.

mick malones mauser

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Well said. I really wish people would let go of their anger and hatred and move into the 21st Century’. The occupation is over, the North is at peace for the most part. The British are no longer our enemies.

I think the biggest problem with this incident and with the remembrance events that have taken place recently is people’s unwillingness to see them for they are.

It’s not about glorifying war or celebrating the British Empire. It’s about remembering the millions of young men and boys who went to war, like my Great Grandfather who fought at Ypres in Belgium, and especially those who never came home.

Those who damaged the statue and those who condone it need to take a good hard look at themselves.

---

Whats wrong with a white dove
Symbol of peace
Failing that a column listing the names of all the Generals and Politcians responsible for the slaughter with the words.....THESE EVIL MONSTERS SENT MILLIONS OF YOUNG BOYS AND MEN TO THEIR DEATHS....NEVER AGAIN.

James Brown

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Well said. I really wish people would let go of their anger and hatred and move into the 21st Century’. The occupation is over, the North is at peace for the most part. The British are no longer our enemies.

I think the biggest problem with this incident and with the remembrance events that have taken place recently is people’s unwillingness to see them for they are.

It’s not about glorifying war or celebrating the British Empire. It’s about remembering the millions of young men and boys who went to war, like my Great Grandfather who fought at Ypres in Belgium, and especially those who never came home.

Those who damaged the statue and those who condone it need to take a good hard look at themselves.

Alas they still occupy the north and as much as I prefer peace, I don't see why any forgive and forget should involve paying respects to the British Army especially with their reputation. All for a remembrance for soldiers who fell after being conned or press ganged into WW1.
Does this brotherly love go for the IRA members killed in the 60's and 70', 80's or is that too recent? Maybe a statue, because y'know, bygones? Asking for a friend

Lefty Bicek

How about a statue of Lions being led by Donkeys ?

Roger Hassenforder

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Alas they still occupy the north and as much as I prefer peace, I don't see why any forgive and forget should involve paying respects to the British Army especially with their reputation. All for a remembrance for soldiers who fell after being conned or press ganged into WW1.

I dont think going to see it, and reflecting on what its supposed to mean, the carnage and horrific waste of life that was WW1, obviates a desire to see the Brits out of NI, and a united Ireland. Its not in the least jingoistic IMO.

I think reflecting on the 1000s of Irish that fought and fell in the British army in WW1 doesnt mean you're paying respects to the British Army per se, and by doing do absolves them of their atrocities around the world. Many Irish dressed like this soldier died for many reasons, reasons they thought were the right ones, in a very different time.


Now if it was the Queens Guards and band, marching up and down O'Connell street blasting Rule Brittania and God Save the Queen, then i wouldnt condemn you for throwing a bit of paint. Or something else.

That said, i'll stand and respect God Save the Queen, before we rear them assunder in a rugby match, and relish every bone crunching tackle and hit that goes in on them. Cnuts.

As a people, we showed incredible maturity in Croke Park when we played the English. Not forgetting our history, but willing to embrace the future.

Roger Hassenforder

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

That said, i'll stand and respect God Save the Queen, before we rear them assunder in a rugby match, and relish every bone crunching tackle and hit that goes in on them. Cnuts.

Nice.

Edgware

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Alas they still occupy the north and as much as I prefer peace, I don't see why any forgive and forget should involve paying respects to the British Army especially with their reputation. All for a remembrance for soldiers who fell after being conned or press ganged into WW1.
Does this brotherly love go for the IRA members killed in the 60's and 70', 80's or is that too recent? Maybe a statue, because y'know, bygones? Asking for a friend

Well there is a statue for Nazi lover IRA Chief of Staff Russell in Fairview Park

James Brown

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I dont think going to see it, and reflecting on what its supposed to mean, the carnage and horrific waste of life that was WW1, obviates a desire to see the Brits out of NI, and a united Ireland. Its not in the least jingoistic IMO.

I think reflecting on the 1000s of Irish that fought and fell in the British army in WW1 doesnt mean you're paying respects to the British Army per se, and by doing do absolves them of their atrocities around the world. Many Irish dressed like this soldier died for many reasons, reasons they thought were the right ones, in a very different time.


Now if it was the Queens Guards and band, marching up and down O'Connell street blasting Rule Brittania and God Save the Queen, then i wouldnt condemn you for throwing a bit of paint. Or something else.

That said, i'll stand and respect God Save the Queen, before we rear them assunder in a rugby match, and relish every bone crunching tackle and hit that goes in on them. Cnuts.

As a people, we showed incredible maturity in Croke Park when we played the English. Not forgetting our history, but willing to embrace the future.

Look, it's not about the British, it's about some using this remembrance to salute the very nefarious entities and people who brought on WWI. And sadly it is used for British military propaganda in some quarters. In fact it's often associated with the modern soldiers currently serving, which I find odd considering remembrance is about the fallen, lest we forget, never again and so on. Why current oil waring soldiery are even mentioned in the same breath just shows it gets used as propaganda. Not to say there shouldn't be a remembrance more a better policing on how it's used.
This let bygones be bygones pip pip is a nonsense. Used as a cap tip to our former oppressors and current occupiers. Again, sculpture good, remembrance good. The idea that it's all water under the bridge will be more believable when we've a sculpture of James Connolly in Hyde Park and the Queen laying a wreath for remembrance of all the IRA fallen. Because all this Hello magazine forgive and forget needs to go both ways no?

Folkstonian

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

How about a statue of Lions being led by Donkeys ?

This would be bad revisionism.

The general staff of the time did a fairly decent job of understanding, adapting and overcoming the challenges of war on a scale, and of a form, that Europe had never seen before.

Massive loss of life was always inevitable and doesn’t reflect an incompetence or callousness on the part of those leading the army

James Brown

Edgware wrote: »

Well there is a statue for Nazi lover IRA Chief of Staff Russell in Fairview Park

Great. Is it near any for Nazi lover DeValera? Of [insert Fine Gael founding member]?

Edgware

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Great. Is it near any for Nazi lover DeValera? Of [insert Fine Gael founding member]?

Is that the De Valera that put Nazi spies in the Curragh while giving R.A.F. men spins to the border?
It breaks the poor Shinners hearts to realise how they are stuck in with the Nazis

whisky_galore

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Alas they still occupy the north and as much as I prefer peace, I don't see why any forgive and forget should involve paying respects to the British Army especially with their reputation. All for a remembrance for soldiers who fell after being conned or press ganged into WW1.
Does this brotherly love go for the IRA members killed in the 60's and 70', 80's or is that too recent? Maybe a statue, because y'know, bygones? Asking for a friend

They can keep NI, an utter drain on resources, populated by some of the most abhorrent fruit loops of both persuasions.
It'd be better if it could be sawn off and floated away. Nice to visit, sure as **** wouldn't want to live there.

whisky_galore

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Great. Is it near any for Nazi lover DeValera? Of [insert Fine Gael founding member]?

Explain how he was a Nazi lover?

Lefty Bicek

Folkstonian wrote: »

This would be bad revisionism.

The general staff of the time did a fairly decent job of understanding, adapting and overcoming the challenges of war on a scale, and of a form, that Europe had never seen before.

Massive loss of life was always inevitable and doesn’t reflect an incompetence or callousness on the part of those leading the army

I was being tongue-in-cheek...

FrancieBrady

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Look, it's not about the British, it's about some using this remembrance to salute the very nefarious entities and people who brought on WWI. And sadly it is used for British military propaganda in some quarters. In fact it's often associated with the modern soldiers currently serving, which I find odd considering remembrance is about the fallen, lest we forget, never again and so on. Why current oil waring soldiery are even mentioned in the same breath just shows it gets used as propaganda. Not to say there shouldn't be a remembrance more a better policing on how it's used.
This let bygones be bygones pip pip is a nonsense. Used as a cap tip to our former oppressors and current occupiers. Again, sculpture good, remembrance good. The idea that it's all water under the bridge will be more believable when we've a sculpture of James Connolly in Hyde Park and the Queen laying a wreath for remembrance of all the IRA fallen. Because all this Hello magazine forgive and forget needs to go both ways no?

Very true ^

The absurdity is they did forget and continued forgetting and will continue into the future.

The myths about WW1 are sold because it is of paramount importance that this army is available and the public are deluded into thinking there is something 'honourable' in being a part of it.

Dying in a war/conflict is ignominious and wasteful and an admission that civility has lost out. It should never be honoured or glorified. Remembrance should always highlight the utter futility and waste and in the case of WW1 the criminal waste of life.
As Irish people we should be the most vocal in criticising it. But the hat doffers and empire lovers will not allow it.

mfceiling

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

If you had performed the basic courtesy of reading the thread from the beginning, you'd know that it represents a British soldier.

If you had the brains to read my post you'd see I clearly said that my wife told me it was commissioned by a lady to represent any soldier.

Obviously she was wrong and you were right ergo you win the Internet.

Your prize is a tin of red paint.

BBFAN

Conall Cernach wrote: »

A statue to a British soldier in the place of one of the key battlegrounds of the Easter Rising. Who thought it was a good idea to put it up there in the first place?

But it wasn't a British soldier though? You obviously didn't read up on this did you?

Lefty Bicek

mfceiling wrote: »

If you had the brains to read my post you'd see I clearly said that my wife told me it was commissioned by a lady to represent any soldier.

Obviously she was wrong and you were right ergo you win the Internet.

Your prize is a tin of red paint.

You asked...

Was the statue meant to represent any soldier from any country who fought in WW1?

If you had the brains to read the thread before asking the question, you wouldn't have needed to ask.

Now you both look silly.

Lefty Bicek

BBFAN wrote: »

But it wasn't a British soldier though? You obviously didn't read up on this did you?

It's a British soldier. Don't be soft.

mfceiling

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

You asked...



If you had the brains to read the thread before asking the question, you wouldn't have needed to ask.

Now you both look silly.

I asked a question. I also said my wife heard it was commissioned by a lady to remember all the dead.
As I said we were both wrong.

You heroically set me straight.

Well done lad.

mfceiling

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

It's a British soldier. Don't be soft.

Ha...had a quick Google there and there's no mention of it being a British soldier.

You might want to wind that neck of yours in a couple of feet there.

Lefty Bicek

mfceiling wrote: »

Ha...had a quick Google there and there's no mention of it being a British soldier.

You might want to wind that neck of yours in a couple of feet there.

Have a quick Google Images, and educate yourself.

Use your common sense, and LOOK at it carefully.

That's a Brodie helmet.

Look at that webbing pattern, that cap.

BBFAN

riffmongous wrote: »

I don't disagree much with that Rory, but what tends to irk a lot of people is that we've seen a lot of commemorating recently and it's all gone to great pains to focus purely on remembering the soldiers, and almost no criticism of why they died, instead it's all been thinly veiled militaristism and patriotism and never a word about the people and reasons who caused their suffering, which you'd think would be the most important thing to take from WW1, it's buildup and aftermath

I don't know Riff, I've heard a lot of criticism about WW1 and a lot of sympathy for the young lads (some as young as 15 and 16) who lied about their age to sign up purely because they were living in dire poverty.


That to me is what the statue is about, especially the Irish lads who came home and couldn't even speak about what they suffered because of the stigma attached.

mfceiling

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Have a quick Google Images, and educate yourself.

Use your common sense, and LOOK at it carefully.

That helmet, that webbing pattern, that cap.

Ah ok. The bit where he says it represents "a" soldier is secretly meant to be "a british".
Is the British bit silent like the letter g in the word length?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Very true ^

The absurdity is they did forget and continued forgetting and will continue into the future.

The myths about WW1 are sold because it is of paramount importance that this army is available and the public are deluded into thinking there is something 'honourable' in being a part of it.

Dying in a war/conflict is ignominious and wasteful and an admission that civility has lost out. It should never be honoured or glorified. Remembrance should always highlight the utter futility and waste and in the case of WW1 the criminal waste of life.
As Irish people we should be the most vocal in criticising it. But the hat doffers and empire lovers will not allow it.

But walk into a chip shop with a bomb and kill children and that person should be hero worshipped and held in high regard?

You really are a hypocrite

Lefty Bicek

mfceiling wrote: »

Ah ok. The bit where he says it represents "a" soldier is secretly meant to be "a british".
Is the British bit silent like the letter g in the word length?

Smarter people than you are letting on to be have figured it out for you.

Look at the cap badge.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4088906/Tin-Tommy-s-ready-scrap-20ft-metal-soldier-haunting-reminder-World-War.html

Now look at a Royal Artillery cap badge.

https://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/insignia-flags-regalia/433260d1355049896-royal-artillery-cap-badge-photo783.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/insignia-flags-regalia/royal-artillery-cap-badge-243693/&h=480&w=633&tbnid=bFwf51kvXDB3pM&q=royal+artillery+cap+badge+ww1&tbnh=104&tbnw=137&usg=AI4_-kQiT86YpCxJxOKeAHkNIhOZhAgqEQ&vet=1&docid=a9eEsSKc558rZM&itg=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj4rKrZoeveAhUkJsAKHUhAAMIQ_h0wE3oECAIQCA

cameramonkey

mfceiling wrote: »

Ha...had a quick Google there and there's no mention of it being a British soldier.

You might want to wind that neck of yours in a couple of feet there.

The woman the facilitated the statue coming to Ireland said specifically that it was to explore how she could remember and commemorate the soldiers from the island of Ireland who fought in the war, both those who died and those who survived.



So it was brought here to commemorate those from Ireland who chose to serve in the British army.


I don't understand the reluctance to accept that these men were in the British army, It's seems that many people want to distance their relatives from the fact that the were serving the empire. Its a bit schizophrenia, are they ashamed that their ancestors served in the British army?

RandomName2

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Have a quick Google Images, and educate yourself.

Use your common sense, and LOOK at it carefully.

That's a Brodie helmet.

Look at that webbing pattern, that cap.

That's the strangest looking helmet I've ever seen.



I think you mean peaked cap, not Brodie helmet.

And that's pretty indistinguishable from what, let's say, a Canadian would have been wearing



Is that educated enough for you?

Sorry.

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

yes, it is a well known fact the the High King of Ireland usually obtained his position by holding a referendum. None of this killing, raping, taking hostages and arranging marriages.

A good simple referendum, whilst reading poetry to the soothing sounds of a harp being plucked and the tap tap tapping of children doing an Irish jig.

I notice you didn’t address the poster’s point re Brehon Laws and the position of women in society. Can’t have those barbaric Irish doing something better than the neighbours now can we?

cameramonkey

RandomName2 wrote: »

That's the strangest looking helmet I've ever seen.



I think you mean peaked cap, not Brodie helmet.

And that's pretty indistinguishable from what, let's say, a Canadian would have been wearing



Is that educated enough for you?

Sorry.

There is a helmet on his back pack.Its a classic BA army issue look.

cameramonkey

cameramonkey wrote: »

I don't understand the reluctance to accept that these men were in the British army, It's seems that many people want to distance their relatives from the fact that the were serving the empire. Its a bit schizophrenia, are they ashamed that their ancestors served in the British army?

Republicans are getting less and less relevant and just use opportunities like this to try and keep the hate going.

Without the hate, the shinners start to fade even more in to insignificance as this country becomes more modern and progressive.

Lefty Bicek

RandomName2 wrote: »

That's the strangest looking helmet I've ever seen.



I think you mean peaked cap, not Brodie helmet.

And that's pretty indistinguishable from what, let's say, a Canadian would have been wearing



Is that educated enough for you?

Sorry.

The helmet is at his back. And it's clearly not a German, or French, or Turkish one.

That's why I wrote

That's a Brodie helmet.

Look at that webbing pattern, that cap.

Cap and helmet as two separate items. As per a full stop.

Yeah, could be Canadian. Bit of a stretch though. Not a sensible suggestion in this case, all things considered.

In any case, the British declaration of war automatically brought Canada into the war, because of Canada's status as a British dominion.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I notice you didn’t address the poster’s point re Brehon Laws and the position of women in society. Can’t have those barbaric Irish doing something better than the neighbours now can we?

I ignored their point about being enlightened and progressive after independence as well.

Shall we discuss that?

Spanish Eyes

So sad that some would desecrate this.

I will say no more because it plays into the you know who's hands.

They haven't gone away you know, but they also seem to have no empathy, no understanding of social or other history at the time, and will always denigrate WW1 from an Irish perspective.

So sad and so destructive.

BBFAN

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

If you had performed the basic courtesy of reading the thread from the beginning, you'd know that it represents a British soldier.

If you had bothered to read further than Boards you would see that it didn't represent a soldier from any particular country, in fact it went out of it's way to make sure it didn't.

JupiterKid

Wanton vandalism is never a good thing. I sincerely hope the perpetrator(s) is caught and punished.

The most fitting punshment would be Community Service, some of which would involve cleaning and repairing the statue.

Lefty Bicek

BBFAN wrote: »

If you had bothered to read further than Boards you would see that it didn't represent a soldier from any particular country, in fact it went out of it's way to make sure it didn't.

You are categorically wrong.

It is very far from going out of it's way not to represent a specific side.

cameramonkey

Aegir wrote: »

Republicans are getting less and less relevant and just use opportunities like this to try and keep the hate going.

Without the hate, the shinners start to fade even more in to insignificance as this country becomes more modern and progressive.

Did republicans vandalise the statue?

cameramonkey

cameramonkey wrote: »

Did republicans vandalise the statue?

Most likely, who knows

The ones on here claiming that it glorifies the British army etc etc etc are though.

It’s any excuse to drag up the past, but dare mention any of their atrocities and we’re told to move on blah blah blah.

They’re just hypocrites

Aegir

Aegir wrote: »

I ignored their point about being enlightened and progressive after independence as well.

Shall we discuss that?

Why should we? I thought the poster made an interesting point re Brehon laws.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

But walk into a chip shop with a bomb and kill children and that person should be hero worshipped and held in high regard?

You really are a hypocrite

No Aegir, no matter what contortions you have to indulge to cheer lead the hat doffing, that is NOT what I said.

I said all communities should be allowed to respectfully remember their dead.
This type of 'remembering', the type that manages to make it all so glorious is not respecting of anything. Neither the dead nor our intelligence.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why should we? I thought the poster made an interesting point re Brehon laws.

Interesting maybe, relevant, no.

Spanish Eyes

JupiterKid wrote: »

Wanton vandalism is never a good thing. I sincerely hope the perpetrator(s) is caught and punished.

The most fitting punshment would be Community Service, some of which would involve cleaning and repairing the statue.

I'd say it was targeted myself.

Pity it didn't have cctv around it, given the potential for this kind of sh!t from a certain cohort.

Awful stuff.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No Aegir, no matter what contortions you have to indulge to cheer lead the hat doffing, that is NOT what I said.

I said all communities should be allowed to respectfully remember their dead.
This type of 'remembering', the type that manages to make it all so glorious is not respecting of anything. Neither the dead nor our intelligence.

It is a statue of a soldier returning from war, a broken, disheveled man suffering from the horrors of the western front just like thousands of Irishmen did and millions the world over.

Only in your fuxked up little world is that glorifying anything.

BBFAN

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

It's a British soldier. Don't be soft.

It is NOT a British soldier and deliberately so.

Lefty Bicek

BBFAN wrote: »

It is NOT a British soldier and deliberately so.

Go on...

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

It is a statue of a soldier returning from war, a broken, disheveled man suffering from the horrors of the western front just like thousands of Irishmen did and millions the world over.

Only in your fuxked up little world is that glorifying anything.

The glorious sarcrifice? This fuxked up little man has been listening to this about the British contribution to WW1 all his life.

They made a fatal mistake. No amount of hindsight will whitewash that away.
Whether they were related to you or not.

Thankfully the world is awash with the real history of it, the British, who cheerlead this whitewash (probably out of guilt) won't get away with. As you continuously try to here.