Query regarding Landlord

PictureFrame

Hi all,

Just have a quick query. Have been renting a property the past 7 months on a 12 month lease, via a letting agency.

In the first few months the owners of the property were completing visual assessments of the house (driving by the house) and lodged a complaint to the letting agent regarding upkeep of the lawns (we had been away on 2 weeks holidays mid-summer and the grass had grown whilst we were away). I received a call from the letting agent who was extremely agitated and said that she had been 'ordered' by the owners to complete an immediate inspection of the property to ensure that the house was in proper order. We obliged to this as the house has always been kept in perfect order, as we are a young couple who spend most of our time in work and keep the house in neat fashion.

Upon the inspection, the letting agent complained about very minor issues including: some dust under the stairs and some cobwebs on the exterior window (not we live in a country area opposite a farm).

All of this was fine, and we put in writing to the letting agent and landlord how inspections should be kept in line with RTB regulations and notice would be required prior to accessing the property.

A number of times, we have received an email from the landlord accessing permission to the shed (Where they keep a number of their possessions as they do not live in the country) to which we immediately obliged and informed them they could come by.

Today however, I returned home from work to find the owner of the house walking across the driveway with items of clothing which she had retrieved from the shed adajcent to the house, but on the property. She had also gone through the postbox and taken letters from there (as they still have not redirected their post despite the fact they have not lived in the property for 2 years). I felt that although they did not enter the dwelling, they still entered the property without notice. It was clear that when I drove into the house today, the owner was very uncomfortable and did not want to hang around, as she had entered the property without permission.

I am just wondering what is the general consensus with this? As I am aware tenants are entitled to peaceful use of the property during the tenancy and landlords are required to give notice of entering a property, which we have reiterated to both the letting agent and landlord when they were driving by the property completing visual inspections and ordering immediate house inspections.

It may seem like a petty issue, however they made the living situation in the first few months extraordinarily uncomfortable and caused quite a lot of stress. I am just wondering would anyone have any advice on how to proceed from this, or what is acceptable- considering the owner did not enter the house, but entered the property (sheds) and postbox without permission. I am also sure if they were willing to enter the property once without permission, they would have no issue in doing it again, or have done so previously.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Kind regards,
PF.

Fol20

Did they enter your property?

If they have a shed adjacent to your own also, they are well within their rights to go into the shed any time they want. If they go into your house, go into back garden etc. that’s a different storey.

TomOnBoard

The LL has stuff in the shed and their own post that they collected. Big deal! If they did it every couple is of days and/or entered the house, that would be out of line. They didnt.

Live and let live!

PictureFrame

Fol20 wrote: »

Did they enter your property?

If they have a shed adjacent to your own also, they are well within their rights to go into the shed any time they want. If they go into your house, go into back garden etc. that’s a different storey.

Hi, the shed is located to the back left of the house, so they would have had to go across the driveway and behind the house to get access.

PictureFrame

TomOnBoard wrote: »

The LL has stuff in the shed and their own post that they collected. Big deal! If they did it every couple is of days and/or entered the house, that would be out of line. They didnt.

Live and let live!

I do agree, but it's just the fact that they felt fit to enter the property does make me slightly uncomfortable after they were quite aggressive at the start of the tenancy and I would rather boundaries be clear as to what is acceptable and not. As tenants are entitled to

TomOnBoard

PictureFrame wrote: »

I do agree, but it's just the fact that they felt fit to enter the property does make me slightly uncomfortable after they were quite aggressive at the start of the tenancy and I would rather boundaries be clear as to what is acceptable and not. As tenants are entitled to

There's no question that you're entitled to peaceful enjoyment of your home. The point is, they came on-site for legitimate reasons involving their own personal belongings, not yours. You knew they had stuff in the shed and the postbox. So, you should accept that they would be accessing same. If they entered the house without your knowledge/permission... Different story. However, they didn't.

I think you're overreacting. Not saying you're awful wrong. But you're not awful right either. Just say hello next time and ask if they'd like a cup of tea. You'd be amazed how much better LL/Tenant relationships can improve when they're not watching each other.

killanena

You said they haven't lived there in 2 years and you have only been there 7 months, quite possible they had a horrible tenant before you and were quite paranoid at the start of the new tenancy of having to go through all that again.

Sure it would annoy anyone but sense they haven't done it sense I would let it slide.

Regarding accessing their mail and shed, my landlord regularly collects mail from me, I just leave it in the box for him so not much of a hassle to me and if they mentioned they would be needing access to the shed before you signed a lease I wouldn't see the harm of it as long as there was no signs of then entering the house.

By the sounds of it ye are ideal tenants and they should consider themselves lucky all the same. I've never let a property but after chats with my own landlord regarding tenants in his other 2 properties it can become quite the stress and money sink hole.

Fol20

If your in a fenced off estate or area and the shed is directly in your plot of land. Then it could be seen as attending without giving proper notice. If it’s adjacent and not directly in your fenced off area he can come and go as he pleases,

PictureFrame

killanena wrote: »

You said they haven't lived there in 2 years and you have only been there 7 months, quite possible they had a horrible tenant before you and were quite paranoid at the start of the new tenancy of having to go through all that again.

Sure it would annoy anyone but sense they haven't done it sense I would let it slide.

Regarding accessing their mail and shed, my landlord regularly collects mail from me, I just leave it in the box for him so not much of a hassle to me and if they mentioned they would be needing access to the shed before you signed a lease I wouldn't see the harm of it as long as there was no signs of then entering the house.

By the sounds of it ye are ideal tenants and they should consider themselves lucky all the same. I've never let a property but after chats with my own landlord regarding tenants in his other 2 properties it can become quite the stress and money sink hole.

Yeah, we are actually their first tenants, they left the house vacant for a year after they left as they were worried about tenants they would get. I just feel they were too attached to the house and didn't want to let go, but trust is required!

TomOnBoard wrote: »

There's no question that you're entitled to peaceful enjoyment of your home. The point is, they came on-site for legitimate reasons involving their own personal belongings, not yours. You knew they had stuff in the shed and the postbox. So, you should accept that they would be accessing same. If they entered the house without your knowledge/permission... Different story. However, they didn't.

I think you're overreacting. Not saying you're awful wrong. But you're not awful right either. Just say hello next time and ask if they'd like a cup of tea. You'd be amazed how much better LL/Tenant relationships can improve when they're not watching each other.

I do get where you're coming from, and i'd be lying if I said I was anything but friendly and obliging to them when I saw them. It is however a bit of a surprise when you drive into your house, to see the owner of the house walking across your driveway when they didn't let you know they were going to be popping by. Again, in the past there has never been an issue with them accessing the shed when they let us know, but I just feel it's simply respectful to let tenants know that they're going to be on the property, when that was what had been agreed in terms of access to same.

Fol20 wrote: »

If your in a fenced off estate or area and the shed is directly in your plot of land. Then it could be seen as attending without giving proper notice. If it’s adjacent and not directly in your fenced off area he can come and go as he pleases,

Yeah we're in a fenced off area with the shed on the plot of land, to the left of the house.

Ray Palmer

It sounds like you are saying there is a shed in the garden that means they have to access it by using the property you are renting. If that is the case and not stated in the rental agreement then they are preventing you from having peaceful enjoyment of the property.

PictureFrame

Ray Palmer wrote: »

It sounds like you are saying there is a shed in the garden that means they have to access it by using the property you are renting. If that is the case and not stated in the rental agreement then they are preventing you from having peaceful enjoyment of the property.

Hi Ray Palmer,

Yes the shed is just beside the house just off the garden. I am just interested in having the facts should an issue ever arise with entrance to the property, as the landlords caused a lot of stress at the start of the tenancy with driving by inspecting the house and lodging a complain about gardens which had grown slightly whilst we were abroad. I just feel that both the tenant and landlord has rights and responsibilities to abide by, and when the house is being kept in perfect order and rent is paid on time and in full, the landlord has a responsibility to inform us of when they are going to be coming on the property, albeit to access their belongings, or anything else.

ross2010

I have to say I´d be upset as a tenant if I didn't even get the courtesy of an email to say the owner would be stopping by to retrieve things from the shed. I do think that's out of order and the courtesy to say I´ll be stopping by on a certain date and a time slot. That's common decency and I believe a right to enjoy privacy for the tenant. What if for example the tenant was getting dressed near a window at the rear of property as the owner passes. The owner needs to understand they have let the property and cannot just show up as and when they feel like it unless in case of an emergency.

Fol20

What ray said is correct. They entered your area without giving you notice. This is a breach of the peace. Depending on what you want to do or achieve, is it worth disputing this. It will definitely sour your relationship more with the ll although he already sounds unreasonable. I’m not too sure what this can achieve in the RTB/court unless it’s constant harassment. Maybe a email to the agency stating along the lines, I would greatly appreciate advanced notice of when the ll inspects property.

On a side note. If the ll drives by a property but doesn’t enter, is this a breach of the peace?

TomOnBoard

Ah, the wonderful peace-making services offered by anonymous keyboard warriors on Boards...

How to make mountains out of molehills!!

Fol20

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Ah, the wonderful peace-making services offered by anonymous keyboard warriors on Boards...

How to make mountains out of molehills!!

Well speaking of a ll point of view. What the ll did is unprofessional. He clearly doesn’t know the rules in relation to it and it’s clear he should have gone through the agency when he’s paying them.

Like being in a relationship, pick your battles wisely

utmbuilder

I had a case similar to this in front of rtb.

Basically if a landlord can claim he had always had access to the shed during the tendancy well its not breaking the peace and enjoyment rule

Really it should be in the lease and he should be requesting access

They sound like a couple of nut job landlords good luck with them

The_Conductor

A slightly different aspect to all of this- the landlord is in fact legally responsible for the upkeep of the exterior of the property and the grounds. The landlord can, legitimately, require the tenant undertake this care- in the lease- however, if they don't, and its determined that the property is not properly kept- its the landlord who is liable, not the tenant.

With respect of the shed with the owner's belongings- unfortunately you were aware of it at the outset- so you can't really complain about it now, after the fact.

I agree with some of the posters above- it is a case of pick your battles- and while neither side are fully in the right here- there is much grey area- it would be more conducive to both your and your landlord's sanity- if you both try to make peace.

PictureFrame

The_Conductor wrote: »

A slightly different aspect to all of this- the landlord is in fact legally responsible for the upkeep of the exterior of the property and the grounds. The landlord can, legitimately, require the tenant undertake this care- in the lease- however, if they don't, and its determined that the property is not properly kept- its the landlord who is liable, not the tenant.

With respect of the shed with the owner's belongings- unfortunately you were aware of it at the outset- so you can't really complain about it now, after the fact.

I agree with some of the posters above- it is a case of pick your battles- and while neither side are fully in the right here- there is much grey area- it would be more conducive to both your and your landlord's sanity- if you both try to make peace.

The issue however is not the upkeep of the exterior of the property and grounds, as both are kept to a highly acceptable standard, and the landlord was not there to upkeep either of these, they were on the property collecting items from a shed contained within the boundaries of the dwelling without letting us know.

With regards to the owners belongings, we were not made awarethat the owners would be dropping by sporadically to collect items from here- anytime in the past that they wished to collect items however they emailed via the letting agent to organise a time/day that was ok (often with virtually no notice, to which we had absolutely no issue with as we're reasonable people). The issue however, that I am looking for a bit of advice on is the fact that contrary to previous occasions the owner entered the property boundaries to collect items- they saw fit to come onto the property at a time/day where most people would be in work (I had a half day) without giving us any indication that they were going to do so. I feel that it is a violation of privacy for a landlord to do so, and at the very least is a clear mark of disregard for the professional standards expected to be adhered to when leasing a home.

Also just to clarify, there has been no animosity from ourselves as tenants, we deal with all queries, transfers of rent and actually most repairs by ourselves so as to not disturb either our letting agent or landlord. I just feel there is a misunderstanding of the obligations to be adhered to from their perspective which given enough room could grow to create further issues. It's simply from my end trying to ensure that boundaries of courtesy and professionalism are upheld from both parties to allow for a harmonious agreement.

Thanks for all advice to all posters by the way, I think it's very interesting to see everyone's perspective on issues such as these.

Fol20

The_Conductor wrote: »

A slightly different aspect to all of this- the landlord is in fact legally responsible for the upkeep of the exterior of the property and the grounds. The landlord can, legitimately, require the tenant undertake this care- in the lease- however, if they don't, and its determined that the property is not properly kept- its the landlord who is liable, not the tenant.

With respect of the shed with the owner's belongings- unfortunately you were aware of it at the outset- so you can't really complain about it now, after the fact.

I agree with some of the posters above- it is a case of pick your battles- and while neither side are fully in the right here- there is much grey area- it would be more conducive to both your and your landlord's sanity- if you both try to make peace.

I can see what your saying however, if it isn’t specifically in the lease which I doubt since most are generic, he should be giving notice to go over to the rear of the garden