JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

How to support a conspiracy theory 101:

Step 1: Fling as much mud and speculation and made-up crap as possible at the established facts

Step 2: Keeping flinging until someone either can't explain something or can't be bothered refuting nonsense

--> It's a conspiracy

Dallas Police are lying about a guy flashing a fake secret service badge, be real. Two different police officers saw the man and stopped him.

Smoking gun is the secret service deny they had anyone stationed at the grassy knoll.

Oswald got the job at TSBD through Ruth Paine. This story made no sense either she took Maria into her home to stay. If you closely at her background and researchers have her father was likely CIA, her brother was CIA and her sister worked at the CIA. Classic case of grooming Oswald to be involved or setting him up to take the fall.

Cheerful Spring

Oswald gun the supposed Carcano was also stored at Ruth Paine house in the garage. Pretty easy to frame Oswald.

Oswald may be involved in the shooting of Kennedy but he still strikes me as someone working for intelligence agency like the CIA.

Cheerful Spring

Lets not forget Oswald went to the Soviet Union and was not debriefed when he returned. This the 60's during the cold war. Oswald was stationed at a base in Japan when he was a US marine. It was a secret base where Lockheed U2 flights took off to spy on the Soviet Union.

Classic case a marine a radar operator speaks Russian! Highly recruitable for an intelligence agency.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Good article and interview here with Clint Hill. Nothing revelationary but seems RFK may have nicked JFKs brain.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/jfk-assassination-robert-f-kennedy-took-his-brothers-brain-after-autopsy/news-story/e22123c43934d769aaa439bb0eeea761

I believe this to be true. It was his brother.

JJayoo

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Another strange picture. Doesn't mean they are involved in the plot? Umbrella man. Umbrella up on a bright day no rain? Was he signalling to the shooter or was he just some crazy guy?

Sun and umbrella = shade

Cheerful Spring

JJayoo wrote: »

Sun and umbrella = shade

Interesting theory I would not say no to that.

This is proof of conspiracy. The Dallas Police ran into a guy just a few minutes after the shooting and he flashed a secret service badge and was let go after this. The Secret Service is adamant though no secret service agents were stationed at the grassy knoll and this man has never got identified since.

ED Hoffman described the shooter as wearing a coat and hat. He saw this guy hand the gun off to another guy dressed in a railway like work outfit and hat. The guy in the jacket then walked off in the same direction he came from. Ed saw the railway man break down the gun and put in a tool bag and he walked away.

There a good possibility the shooter is the guy who flashed the ID with secret service?

namloc1980

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Came across a rare photograph taken by Hugh Betzner on the day of the assassination.

In my opinion, he caught the killer on this photograph standing behind the picket fence.

That the sign JFK is about to pass by. You can even see Zapruder to the right in the photograph.

You can literally see Abraham Zapruder and his secretary a few metres away from the red circle. Neither of them heard shots and it's right next to them!

The Nal

namloc1980 wrote: »

You can literally see Abraham Zapruder and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

his secretary a few metres away from the red circle. Neither of them heard shots and it's right next to them!

Either did the 3 people who were standing even closer to this shooter. A few feet away. No one standing in and around the knoll said the shots came from there.

As for Umbrella Man, Spring has gone into idiot mode again. Umbrella Man was identified 40 years ago. This has been pointed out to him before. A couple of times.

Interesting for anyone who hasn't seen it.

Cheerful Spring

namloc1980 wrote: »

You can literally see Abraham Zapruder and his secretary a few metres away from the red circle. Neither of them heard shots and it's right next to them!

False.

Warren Commission testimony of Zapruder.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - No, I also thought it came from back of me. Of course, you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there.
Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the head and you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - From the direction behind you?
Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--I assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Either did the 3 people who were standing even closer to this shooter. A few feet away. No one standing in and around the knoll said the shots came from there.

As for Umbrella Man, Spring has gone into idiot mode again. Umbrella Man was identified 40 years ago. This has been pointed out to him before. A couple of times.

Interesting for anyone who hasn't seen it.

Two of the men on the steps have never got identified. We can't find out what they heard.

Emmet J Hudson was the only one identified and he appeared at the Warren Commission. He was a groundskeeper.

His statement is confusing as he says the shots sounded like they came from above and behind him and to the left. That the grassy knoll, not the TSBD.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hudson.htm

Umbrella man story is so wacky that I tend to believe it. Great story if he made it all up.

Tipsy McSwagger

The Nal wrote: »

Thats clearly the shooter mate yeah you've cracked the case.

Looks like Bigfoot to me

Tipsy McSwagger

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Interesting theory I would not say no to that.

This is proof of conspiracy. The Dallas Police ran into a guy just a few minutes after the shooting and he flashed a secret service badge and was let go after this. The Secret Service is adamant though no secret service agents were stationed at the grassy knoll and this man has never got identified since.

ED Hoffman described the shooter as wearing a coat and hat. He saw this guy hand the gun off to another guy dressed in a railway like work outfit and hat. The guy in the jacket then walked off in the same direction he came from. Ed saw the railway man break down the gun and put in a tool bag and he walked away.

There a good possibility the shooter is the guy who flashed the ID with secret service?

An umbrella can be used to provide shade is an ‘interesting theory’ and you say no to that, Christ. It can also stop rain from falling on you.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Two of the men on the steps have never got identified. We can't find out what they heard.

Emmet J Hudson was the only one identified and he appeared at the Warren Commission. He was a groundskeeper.

His statement is confusing as he says the shots sounded like they came from above and behind him and to the left. That the grassy knoll, not the TSBD.

Such a garden variety conspiracy theorist slant. Pathetic again from you really. Hudson is one of the biggest pieces of evidence proving there couldn't have been a shooter on the knoll.

He said the shots came from above and to the left of the motorcade, not him, ie probably the TSBD.

Again, this is from a link that you posted!

Mr. LIEBELER - After you heard these three shots and saw the president get hit in the head, you turned around and you ran up on the little knoll there and you got away.
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - While you were standing there, did you ever look toward the railroad tracks there where they went across the triple underpass?
Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; while I was laying there I didn't - I was looking down towards Elm Street.
Mr. LIEBELER - So, you never looked up towards the railroad tracks that went across the underpass?
Mr. HUDSON - No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you are quite sure in your own mind that the shots came from the rear of the President's car and above it; is that correct?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any idea that they might have come from the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. HUDSON - Well, it sounded like it was high, you know, from above and kind of behind like - in other words, to the left.
Mr. LIEBELER - And that would have fit in with the Texas School Book Depository, wouldn't it?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.



This is the headshot. Which apparently came from a few feet behind them, the bullet whistling within inches of their ears but they didn't notice?

So, he ran up the knoll to get away from gunfire, from the knoll?!

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Such a garden variety conspiracy theorist slant. Pathetic again from you really. Hudson is one of the biggest pieces of evidence proving there couldn't have been a shooter on the knoll.

He said the shots came from above and to the left of the motorcade, not him, ie probably the TSBD.

Again, this is from a link that you posted!

Mr. LIEBELER - After you heard these three shots and saw the president get hit in the head, you turned around and you ran up on the little knoll there and you got away.
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - While you were standing there, did you ever look toward the railroad tracks there where they went across the triple underpass?
Mr. HUDSON - No, sir; while I was laying there I didn't - I was looking down towards Elm Street.
Mr. LIEBELER - So, you never looked up towards the railroad tracks that went across the underpass?
Mr. HUDSON - No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you are quite sure in your own mind that the shots came from the rear of the President's car and above it; is that correct?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any idea that they might have come from the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. HUDSON - Well, it sounded like it was high, you know, from above and kind of behind like - in other words, to the left.
Mr. LIEBELER - And that would have fit in with the Texas School Book Depository, wouldn't it?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.



This is the headshot. Which apparently came from a few feet behind them, the bullet whistling within inches of their ears but they didn't notice?

So, he ran up the knoll to get away from gunfire, from the knoll?!

That's why I said his testimony is confusing. He said the shots came from above and behind.

TSBD is not behind him. This building up on a hill on elm street furthest to the left of where he was standing.

namloc1980

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

That's why I said his testimony is confusing. He said the shots came from above and behind.

TSBD is not behind him. This building up on a hill on elm street furthest to the left of where he was standing.

Yes above and behind the car. That's what he said which was to the left of him:

Mr. LIEBELER - But you are quite sure in your own mind that the shots came from the rear of the President's car and above it; is that correct?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any idea that they might have come from the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. HUDSON - Well, it sounded like it was high, you know, from above and kind of behind like - in other words, to the left.
Mr. LIEBELER - And that would have fit in with the Texas School Book Depository, wouldn't it?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Nothing confusing in that at all.

Cheerful Spring

He does say behind the motorcade when prompted by the solicitor.


His one guy who heard shots coming from the TSBD that not surprising. Obviously, one or two bullets were fired from that direction.

Cheerful Spring

namloc1980 wrote: »

Yes above and behind the car. That's what he said which was to the left of him:

Mr. LIEBELER - But you are quite sure in your own mind that the shots came from the rear of the President's car and above it; is that correct?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any idea that they might have come from the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. HUDSON - Well, it sounded like it was high, you know, from above and kind of behind like - in other words, to the left.
Mr. LIEBELER - And that would have fit in with the Texas School Book Depository, wouldn't it?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Nothing confusing in that at all.

You beat me too it I was about to post that.

Cheerful Spring

What you guys are unable to explain is who was the secret service agent flashing a fake badge a minute or two after the shooting. Secret Service denied they had anyone up there. It's in my mind the smoking gun there was a shooter there on the grassy knoll. We also have pictures that show the outline of a man (two men maybe) behind the picket fence when JFK motorcade was just passing the sign.

Cheerful Spring

And people on here said there were no other bullets found.


Files released by the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB) was an FBI evidence envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122). Although the envelope was empty, the cover indicated it had contained a 7.65 mm rifle shell that had been found in Dealey Plaza after the shooting. The envelope is dated 2 December 1963, so the shell was found sometime between 11/22/63 and 12/2/63. Nothing was known about the discovery of this shell until the FBI evidence envelope was released along with other assassination-related files.

This exposes the conspiracy even further. When Dallas police found the rifle they all claimed for 24 hours the rifle they found was German made Mauser. It was 24 hours later when the FBI produced the rifle they claimed it was Carcano rifle belonging to Oswald.

A Mauser, by the way, uses 7.65 rifle bullets.

Cheerful Spring

Chief Of Parkland Hospital Security O P Wright The Inefficient Handling Of CE399

O.P Wright handed the bullet found at Parkland hospital to the Secret service. He has claimed over the years the bullet he handed to the secret service agent was not the Carcano bullet we see today. The bullet he was given had a pointed top.

Cheerful Spring

Unlikely to be involved due to distance.
Barbee Specimen: Found embedded in the roof of a building located at 1615 Stemmons Freeway by William Barbee in 1966. The building, about 1/4 a mile away from the TSBD was in the line of fire from the sixth floor window. It was handed over to the FBI where they determined the bullet to be a .30 calibre full metal jacketed military bullet.

Unlikely to be involved due to distance.
Haythorne Specimen: Found in 1967 on top of the Massey building by Rich Haythorne, who was working on the roof of the building. The Massey building was located about 8 blocks away from the TSBD in the 1200 block of Elm Street. The bullet was delivered to the HSCA. The HSCA utilized the services of the Washington, D.C police department, where it was determined that the bullet was a jacketed, soft point .30 calibre bullet weighing 149 grains and was consistent with the .30 calibre ammo produced by Remington-Peters. The 6 groove, right hand twist rifling marks on the bullet indicated that the bullet was not shot from Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano.

Lester Specimen: A bullet fragment found in Dealey Plaza by Richard Lester in 1974. Its precise location was reported to be 500 yards from the TSBD and 61 paces east of the triple overpass abutment. It was handed over to the FBI, the FBI concluded that the fragment, which consisted of the base portion of a bullet and weighed 52.7 grains, was consistent with the diameter of a 6.5mm bullet. It was also determined that the fragment came from a metal jacketed soft point or hollow point sporting bullet. The rifling characteristics did not match those of a Mannlicher-Carcano.

Speculated by JFK conspiracy theorists that a shooter team was there.
Dal-Tex Specimen: A rusted shell casing was found on the roof top of the Dal-Tex building in 1977 by an air-conditioning repair man

Cheerful Spring

What JFK skeptics don't tell people is. There were numerous plots in the works to kill Kennedy and none involved Oswald.

The Omen in Chicago: the I-Team has discovered not just one, but two plots to cut down JFK in Chicago in early November, 1963, and an intriguing backstory of bungling by the government agencies protecting him.

President John F. Kennedy was never supposed to make it to Texas, never supposed to take this ride, and never supposed to die in Dallas.

As Chicagoans watched storefront TVs and picked up newspapers of the day, there was one storyline almost no one knew a story still evolving five decades later: evidence that President Kennedy was to be targeted here in Chicago.

"The assassination was supposed to take place during the motorcade that was scheduled to come in from O'Hare Airport," said Abraham Bolden, JFK Secret Service Agent.

According to this Chicagoan and former JFK bodyguard-- and from these FBI and Secret Service reports obtained by the I-Team-- it is clear there were two plans by different groups intent on killing the president in Chicago weeks before Dallas.

In October 1963, the White House had publicly announced JFK'S plans to fly into Chicago on November 2. He was to land at O'Hare as he had many times, would be greeted by Mayor Daley as usual, and would attend an Army-Air Force football game at Soldier Field.

Records reveal one Chicago plot had been developed by radical Cuban exile Homer Echevarria, a known smuggler of automatic weapons and machine guns.

"Echeverria had made mention that a plan was underway to assassinate President Kennedy and it was going to be successful. 'We're gonna get him.' That's what he said," said Bolden.

Bolden says Echevarria told a Secret Service informant that his group would "take care of Kennedy." In a boarding house just off the highway from O'Hare and linked to Echavarria, authorities found high powered rifles, ammo and Kennedy motorcade maps.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What you guys are unable to explain is who was the secret service agent flashing a fake badge a minute or two after the shooting. Secret Service denied they had anyone up there. It's in my mind the smoking gun there was a shooter there on the grassy knoll. We also have pictures that show the outline of a man (two men maybe) behind the picket fence when JFK motorcade was just passing the sign.

No we don't.

We have a few lunatics posting low res pics claiming 9 foot tall men with 2 foot wide heads. The same shape is there well after the shooting has stopped. As shown in the Betzner and Willis photos. Same shadows. So, its a shadow.

However, we have restored photos showing no one there, and the Nix video which has been restored that captures the headshot and shows no shooter behind the fence and the people close not reacting to a shooter behind the fence.

Its important to note the distance between the grassy knoll and where the 3 men were standing. They were sooooo close, its just impossible that they wouldn't have heard or seen anyone there. Explain how someone can fire a high powered rifle this close and not be detected?



As for the secret service agent, thats based on one officers interaction and was a few minutes - not 1 or 2 minutes which is significant as he started on foot from behind the TSBD - after the shooting had happened. So what? You think the shooter is casually going to hang around for few minutes in the car park?

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

And people on here said there were no other bullets found.


Files released by the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB) was an FBI evidence envelope (FBI Field Office Dallas 89-43-1A-122). Although the envelope was empty, the cover indicated it had contained a 7.65 mm rifle shell that had been found in Dealey Plaza after the shooting. The envelope is dated 2 December 1963, so the shell was found sometime between 11/22/63 and 12/2/63. Nothing was known about the discovery of this shell until the FBI evidence envelope was released along with other assassination-related files.

This exposes the conspiracy even further. When Dallas police found the rifle they all claimed for 24 hours the rifle they found was German made Mauser. It was 24 hours later when the FBI produced the rifle they claimed it was Carcano rifle belonging to Oswald.

A Mauser, by the way, uses 7.65 rifle bullets.

Seymour Weitzman made a mistake on the spur of the moment and admitted it. You cling on to such flimsy circumstantial and off the cuff quotes evidence as if they're fact.

Anyway now you're just copying and pasting from other websites - in this case Michael Griffiths - including the long debunked nonsense about the envelope.

You don't even have your own opinions. You're a time waster.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

No we don't.

We have a few lunatics posting low res pics claiming 9 foot tall men with 2 foot wide heads. The same shape is there well after the shooting has stopped. As shown in the Betzner and Willis photos. Same shadows. So, its a shadow.

However, we have restored photos showing no one there, and the Nix video which has been restored that captures the headshot and shows no shooter behind the fence and the people close not reacting to a shooter behind the fence.

Its important to note the distance between the grassy knoll and where the 3 men were standing. They were sooooo close, its just impossible that they wouldn't have heard or seen anyone there. Explain how someone can fire a high powered rifle this close and not be detected?



As for the secret service agent, thats based on one officers interaction and was a few minutes - not 1 or 2 minutes which is significant as he started on foot from behind the TSBD - after the shooting had happened. So what? You think the shooter is casually going to hang around for few minutes in the car park?

It's a photo that clearly shows a figure of a man behind the fence. Everything is a shadow to you guys. Of course, you ignore an eyewitness who was actually there that day described the man and it looks like the guy in the picture I posted.

Restored by who? Are we to trust anything they produced later? Only one guy was allowed to take pictures of JFK body during the Autopsy and he publically stated the images stored in the archive are not the photographs he took that day.

He drove his motorcycle up there and pulled out his gun and came across this guy with the fake secret service badge. The Eyewitness claimed there were two guys up there and one of the guys dismantled the gun and left the scene. The other guy walked in the opposite direction. If he had no rifle on him he hardly going to be arrested. He produced a fake secret service badge and the officer let him go on his way.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Seymour Weitzman made a mistake on the spur of the moment and admitted it. You cling on to such flimsy circumstantial and off the cuff quotes evidence as if they're fact.

Anyway now you're just copying and pasting from other websites - in this case Michael Griffiths - including the long debunked nonsense about the envelope.

You don't even have your own opinions. You're a time waster.

5 Dallas police officers made the same mistake? By the way, Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig said Mauser was written on the side of the rifle that's how they identified it.

Is it interesting after 32 years evidence shows up an envelope that once contained a Mauser rifle shell? You ignored what I just posted on that.

It was found in FBI archive of items found in Dealey Plaza.

Cheerful Spring

Never changed his story, Roger Craig

Timberrrrrrrr

You're some man for spamming threads with these long videos, not everyone has time to sit all day watching videos

The Nal

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You're some man for spamming threads with these long videos, not everyone has time to sit all day watching videos

He doesn't watch them himself and doesn't read anything put to him unless its glaringly obvious that hes wrong. Which he has been countless times.

He copies and pastes opinions from other websites and doesn't credit anyone.

Cheerful Spring

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You're some man for spamming threads with these long videos, not everyone has time to sit all day watching videos

These videos are important to understand the event. You get to hear first hand accounts of what happened they are key eyewitnesses.

Roger Craig testimony was ignored for 30 years. Finding this envelope in 1996 has vindicated him. They found a 7.65 shell at Dealey Plaza. Mauser uses 7.65 bullets.