JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

Cheerful Spring

BloodBath wrote: »

That is a fair point but most of the people refuting it haven't researched it at all.

Yep, true statement. Dohnjoe is one of them. He keeping posts stuff like this all the time then ignores valid points about the conspiracy.

He thinks the conspiracy theorists mind****ed or brainwashed the doctors, the ballistic experts to disagree with the Warren Commission. He doesn't explain in any detail why they are lying.

Whiplash85

Seems to be no end to the lies an idiocy in here. Here is Zapruders testimony saying shots came from behind him. Indeed over 40 witnesses testified that shots came from Knoll. Skinny Holland was one of them and probably had most eagle eyed view of the whole scene. 3 witnesses who were stationed underneath supposed snipers nest in DBD where Oswald was said shots came from the knoll. 6 people saw a person on 6th floor, 1 identified Oswald. Indeed many many peoples first instincts and gut reactions were to run in the direction of grassy knoll along with 2 police officers.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You don't even look at your own links. 100 extra people heard no shots from these locations.

52 Knoll

48 Depository

So what? I wasnt referring to who heard shots. I was referring to the amount of people in the plaza. Estimates that there were about 600 people in the plaza at the time. 216 identified.

The Nal

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Seems to be no end to the lies an idiocy in here. Here is Zapruders testimony saying shots came from behind him. Indeed over 40 witnesses testified that shots came from Knoll. Skinny Holland was one of them and probably had most eagle eyed view of the whole scene. 3 witnesses who were stationed underneath supposed snipers nest in DBD where Oswald was said shots came from the knoll. 6 people saw a person on 6th floor, 1 identified Oswald. Indeed many many peoples first instincts and gut reactions were to run in the direction of grassy knoll along with 2 police officers.

Youve just claimed Main St is 2 blocks away from Elm. Is that a lie? Or just idiocy?

Zapruders testimomy has been covered here. And not with a cherry picked quote mine like you just posted. He hadnt a clue where the shots came from due to echoes.

However I find it implausible that he wouldnt have noticed the shooter if he was behind the fence. Same for his secretary who said as much. And the guys in the steps actually moving towards the fence. I just cant see how they wouldnt notice. They were too close.

BloodBath

The Nal wrote: »

So what? I wasnt referring to who heard shots. I was referring to the amount of people in the plaza. Estimates that there were about 600 people in the plaza at the time. 216 identified.

No way is there 600 people in that plaza. Maybe if you count all the people in all buildings. We're talking about direct witnesses along the motorcade route.

You're still ignoring the fact that Zapruder did hear shots behind from the knoll area, the ruby tape, the knoll witnesses. Are you going to address any of this?

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

So what? I wasnt referring to who heard shots. I was referring to the amount of people in the plaza. Estimates that there were about 600 people in the plaza at the time. 216 identified.

That 100 extra people were not asked or did know where the shots came from.

So what purpose does it serve saying 216 people were identified?

You trying to make out nobody heard shots from the grassy knoll and you wrong on this.

By the way, I have never denied shots came from behind. What I deny is there was only one shooter.

Whiplash85

The Nal wrote: »

Its 1 block. The TSBD is on Houston and Elm and the next block turns onto Main St.

Coming from Main St theres about 50m before the car turns onto Elm.

I have attached 2 files to refute the above. You say it's 50m. I have been there and I thought this doesn't stack up. If it was 50m it why does it appear much further when I was looking out the 6th floor. So here's the amazing thing right, with GPS we can prove or disprove the above. And as you can see it is much further away than you give it credit for. Much much further in fact. In fact he could have probably went away and made a cup of tea by the time he was taking the turn on main and still managed to get a shot off. The fact that Oswald did not shoot at Kennedy coming up Houston is one of many reasons why there was a conspiracy.

BloodBath

The Nal wrote: »

Youve just claimed Main St is 2 blocks away from Elm. Is that a lie? Or just idiocy?

Zapruders testimomy has been covered here. And not with a cherry picked quote mine like you just posted. He hadnt a clue where the shots came from due to echoes.

However I find it implausible that he wouldnt have noticed the shooter if he was behind the fence. Same for his secretary who said as much. And the guys in the steps actually moving towards the fence. I just cant see how they wouldnt notice. They were too close.

Ah changing your story again. So first he didn't identify the knoll now he doesn't know for sure where they came from. Why are we even discussing this? There are 38 witnesses who did identify the area and you're focusing on 1 confused old man who was in a terrible location acoustically to identify the direction.

Dohnjoe

BloodBath wrote: »

That is a fair point but most of the people refuting it haven't researched it at all.

Research into who really did it? Or "research" into finding tiny details and **** that's hard to explain? because they are two different things

That said, I've been reading these JFK threads on and off for 10 years, I enjoy the (reasonable) debate

Whiplash85

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Numbers are listed in his own link you not wrong.



I posted Zapruder testimony he ignored it.

In fact the numbers should be more skewed in favour of the grassy knoll. Pressure was put on witnesses to change testimony or make it fit. Those stats don't tell the whole story. Look at Skinny Holland's interview on YouTube. Warren commission used his testimony to prove Oswald acted alone even though he leaves you in no doubt that they came from the knoll.

Whiplash85

The Nal wrote: »

Youve just claimed Main St is 2 blocks away from Elm. Is that a lie? Or just idiocy?

Zapruders testimomy has been covered here. And not with a cherry picked quote mine like you just posted. He hadnt a clue where the shots came from due to echoes.

However I find it implausible that he wouldnt have noticed the shooter if he was behind the fence. Same for his secretary who said as much. And the guys in the steps actually moving towards the fence. I just cant see how they wouldnt notice. They were too close.

You claimed it's 50metres. In fact it's at least 10 times this distance and I am being generous with you here.

BloodBath

Whiplash85 wrote: »

In fact the numbers should be more skewed in favour of the grassy knoll. Pressure was put on witnesses to change testimony or make it fit. Those stats don't tell the whole story. Look at Skinny Holland's interview on YouTube. Warren commission used his testimony to prove Oswald acted alone even though he leaves you in no doubt that they came from the knoll.

Exactly, multiple witnesses have stated the pressure to conform to the official story which was evident throughout the entire Warren commission.

The Warren commission was not any type of objective trial. It's goal was to pin the assassination on to Oswald and nothing else. Not hard to convict a man when he has no defence.

Cheerful Spring

The nix video of the JFK killing shows an extensive amount of shadowing near the grassy knoll. The Nix video was confiscated by the FBI and released later. Easily could have got manipulated so we can see jack ****. Plus did he miss the first shot, the video skips to pretty much the end?

Anyway not speculation. The groundskeeper is about halfway down the steps how far down is that in feet and metres anyone know?

Whiplash85

BloodBath wrote: »

Exactly, multiple witnesses have stated the pressure to conform to the official story which was evident throughout the entire Warren commission.

The Warren commission was not any type of objective trial. It's goal was to pin the assassination on to Oswald and nothing else. Not hard to convict a man when he has no defence.

The problem with some people on here is confirmation bias. They read material that corresponds and ties in with their version of events or reality they perceive. When a plethora of evidence is stacked in front of them that says Oswald couldn't have acted alone it is either ignored or discredited with a good dash of whataboutery thrown in. When people quote Warren commission it's like groundhogday. A fictional tale that is made to fit where you almost have to believe water flows up stream.

Cheerful Spring

Whiplash85 wrote: »

The problem with some people on here is confirmation bias. They read material that corresponds and ties in with their version of events or reality they perceive. When a plethora of evidence is stacked in front of them that says Oswald couldn't have acted alone it is either ignored or discredited with a good dash of whataboutery thrown in. When people quote Warren commission it's like groundhogday. A fictional tale that is made to fit where you almost have to believe water flows up stream.

What they ignore the Warren commission own ballistic experts tested 100 bullets and not even 1 of them looked identical to the Carcano bullet in the JFK archive. And the person who found the bullet and person who gave the bullet over later stated that bullet in the archive was not the bullet they found at the hospital. Both men state it had a pointed tip at the end. The Carcano bullet is rounded.

The Nal

Whiplash85 wrote: »

You claimed it's 50metres. In fact it's at least 10 times this distance and I am being generous with you here.

Hang on you think the turn from Main to the turn on Elm is 500m?!

Aside from the fact Ive been there and walked it, yes you can prove it with GPS.

So, the top of my head figure of 50m was slightly off. Its about 70m.





However, just for ha ha's lets look at your 500m.



For fúcks sake.

Cheerful Spring

When the motorcade pulled up at the hospital. People noticed a crack in the windshield. A doctor here on video stating she saw a hole in the front of the windshield.

Agents were actually photographed removing the glass at the hospital there photos of this.

ligerdub

Whiplash85 wrote: »

The problem with some people on here is confirmation bias. They read material that corresponds and ties in with their version of events or reality they perceive. When a plethora of evidence is stacked in front of them that says Oswald couldn't have acted alone it is either ignored or discredited with a good dash of whataboutery thrown in. When people quote Warren commission it's like groundhogday. A fictional tale that is made to fit where you almost have to believe water flows up stream.

I agree. Exhibit A: Cheerful Spring (no offence)

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The nix video of the JFK killing shows an extensive amount of shadowing near the grassy knoll. The Nix video was confiscated by the FBI and released later. Easily could have got manipulated so we can see jack ****. Plus did he miss the first shot, the video skips to pretty much the end?

Anyway not speculation. The groundskeeper is about halfway down the steps how far down is that in feet and metres anyone know?

About 12-15 feet. Maybe less. Which is why I dont buy there was a shooter there.

He wouldve heard it.

https://m.imgur.com/6Tgo9

JJayoo

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

When the motorcade pulled up at the hospital. People noticed a crack in the windshield. A doctor here on video stating she saw a hole in the front of the windshield.

Agents were actually photographed removing the glass at the hospital there photos of this.

So you think there was someone standing in the middle off the road shooting at the car?

Tipsy McSwagger

BloodBath wrote: »

Exactly, multiple witnesses have stated the pressure to conform to the official story which was evident throughout the entire Warren commission.

The Warren commission was not any type of objective trial. It's goal was to pin the assassination on to Oswald and nothing else. Not hard to convict a man when he has no defence.

Probably the greatest criminal investigation of the 20th century.

JJayoo

Aliens did it because JFK found out the world is flat...

The Nal

BloodBath wrote: »

We already have Ruby's confession on video that he was forced to shoot LHO by people in high positions of power. Whether that be government or mafia or both is open to discussion but it certainly wasn't out of any obligation to Jackie.

I notice how the sceptics completely ignored this the last time I posted it as well.

First off, yourself and Cheerful Spring don't seem to know what a sceptic is. A sceptic is someone who doubts the official story. Like you. You're a sceptic.

On that old Ruby video - for about the 10th time - he was referring to the position he was put in for his trial. Nothing to do with the assassination. Ruby wanted a trial outside of Dallas claiming he couldn't get a fair trial in Dallas. Which was later legally proved with a retrial scheduled. See Jacob Rubinstein v. State of Texas.

Read his WC testimony. He thinks his family will be killed because of the adverse publicity and he touches on "my people" (Jews) being killed as a result. And he thought he was going to be killed any minute.

"There is only one thing. If you don't take me back to Washington tonight to give me a chance to prove to the President that I am not guilty, then
you will see the most tragic thing that will ever happen."

Ruby always thought it was a conspiracy but denied he was part of one until his dying day. He never once alluded to being part of a conspiracy.

That video that does the rounds is a perfect example of quote mining and cherry picking. Put out there with no context as fact as if its an admission of guilt.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

When the motorcade pulled up at the hospital. People noticed a crack in the windshield. A doctor here on video stating she saw a hole in the front of the windshield.

Agents were actually photographed removing the glass at the hospital there photos of this.

Dohnjoe

Whiplash85 wrote: »

They read material that corresponds and ties in with their version of events or reality they perceive. When a plethora of evidence is stacked in front of them that says Oswald couldn't have acted alone it is either ignored or discredited with a good dash of whataboutery thrown in. When people quote Warren commission it's like groundhogday. A fictional tale that is made to fit where you almost have to believe water flows up stream.

I've found the opposite. The people who believe that it wasn't Oswald acting alone don't appear to have a unified theory, many don't have any theory at all, which takes away any context from all the perceived "cracks" they find. And if people do have their own theories, it's very odd for them to be agreeing with each other when their theories are completely contradictory. If genuine inconsistencies and discrepancies are found, they point toward one other singular event - they can't just be lazily borrowed with no attempt to explain their significance and context

It's relatively simple to attack the minutae and details of any event, but there is no point if none of it is supporting an alternative sequence of events. I've mentioned this in this thread and others before but it's the equivalent of e.g. spending a lifetime poring over an aircraft investigation report, finding "holes" in it, then declaring that proves it was an inside job, walking off satisfied without the slightest interest in explaining what really happened. Even worse, some people will "adopt" or copy-paste a lazy half-assed theory with a low amount of evidence after rejecting a theory which has a high amount of supporting and corroborating evidence

Again, I don't know all the details of this case like you guys do, it's interesting reading, but the above red flags are pretty glaring. In fairness, it's been 50 plus years, it's simply not enough to highlight perceived discrepancies with the main theory to hint it's some vague unspecified inside job (that's what Sandy Hook truthers do) - these discrepancies need to be put in context as to what they really point towards.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What they ignore the Warren commission own ballistic experts tested 100 bullets and not even 1 of them looked identical to the Carcano bullet in the JFK archive.

Such poor wording. Either on purpose by you or from whatever other forum you copied and pasted it from. You could fire a million bullets, literally a million, and no two would be identical. Some may look similar, but they will never be identical.

If you're referring to the The Edgewood Arsenal report then you are wrong or lying. Yet again. They concluded that Oswalds rifle was capable of causing all of the wounds and they concluded that the bullet that hit Connolly was probably tumbling.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62296&relPageId=6

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Such poor wording. Either on purpose by you or from whatever other forum you copied and pasted it from. You could fire a million bullets, literally a million, and no two would be identical. Some may look similar, but they will never be identical.

If you're referring to the The Edgewood Arsenal report then you are wrong or lying. Yet again. They concluded that Oswalds rifle was capable of causing all of the wounds and they concluded that the bullet that hit Connolly was probably tumbling.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62296&relPageId=6

I posted this video. 42 minutes in.

You will hear the Warren commission expert witness ridicule the magic bullet theory. He was the man in charge of doing the tests

Maybe you should listen to what he says as he was an expert hired by the US government?

Cheerful Spring

In my mind, we have a picture of two men behind the picket fence. One clearly in a suit. The other guy is harder to see but he could be the shooter



In my mind, the guy in the suit was mostly like the guy who flashed the fake secret service badge and allowed the shooter (maybe another accomplice) to get away by car, He probably was a controller and made sure they left no incriminating evidence behind.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

First off, yourself and Cheerful Spring don't seem to know what a sceptic is. A sceptic is someone who doubts the official story. Like you. You're a sceptic.

On that old Ruby video - for about the 10th time - he was referring to the position he was put in for his trial. Nothing to do with the assassination. Ruby wanted a trial outside of Dallas claiming he couldn't get a fair trial in Dallas. Which was later legally proved with a retrial scheduled. See Jacob Rubinstein v. State of Texas.

Read his WC testimony. He thinks his family will be killed because of the adverse publicity and he touches on "my people" (Jews) being killed as a result. And he thought he was going to be killed any minute.

"There is only one thing. If you don't take me back to Washington tonight to give me a chance to prove to the President that I am not guilty, then
you will see the most tragic thing that will ever happen."

Ruby always thought it was a conspiracy but denied he was part of one until his dying day. He never once alluded to being part of a conspiracy.

That video that does the rounds is a perfect example of quote mining and cherry picking. Put out there with no context as fact as if its an admission of guilt.

Not true. Ruby claimed on video if LBJ was not in office, the assassination of JFK would not have happened. Just that statement alone debunks your claim Ruby did not know anything. He claiming LBJ was involved in a plot

It obvious he talking about the conspirators and people who placed him in this position to kill Oswald and it not what you claim. You making up bull****.

Cheerful Spring

Ruby statement.

Everything pertaining to what's happening has never come to the surface. The world will never know the true facts, of what occurred, my motives. The people had , that had so much to gain and had such an ulterior motive for putting me in the position I'm in, will never let the true facts come above board to the world.

Reporter : Are these people in very high positions Jack ??

Jack : Yes.

You correct on one thing only he wanted out of Dallas to tell the real story. They refused him this request. Why would people in high positions be afraid to hear his story? If Lee Harvey was a lone gunman there nothing earth shattering he could reveal, unless!

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I posted this video. 42 minutes in.

You will hear the Warren commission expert witness ridicule the magic bullet theory. He was the man in charge of doing the tests

Maybe you should listen to what he says as he was an expert hired by the US government?

He was not the man in charge of doing the tests and wasn't even called by the WC to testify. He was a consultant in the early stage. You're lying, yet again.

Did you not read the Edgewood Arsenal report? The one you claimed proves a conspiracy but actually indicates that the opposite is likely? Another lie from you.

But I don't put a huge amount of weight into these tests. They're flawed, whether people believe in the single bullet of not. Firing bullets directly at wrists isnt what happened.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Not true. Ruby claimed on video if LBJ was not in office, the assassination of JFK would not have happened. Just that statement alone debunks your claim Ruby did not know anything. He claiming LBJ was involved in a plot

It obvious he talking about the conspirators and people who placed him in this position to kill Oswald and it not what you claim. You making up bull****.

Nope. He wasn't talking about conspirators putting him in that position. You're quote mining and cherry picking, again.

He always believed in a conspiracy and thought LBJ was involved. Like millions of people. Read about his trial, the verdict being overturned and the case I posted above. That statement he made is about the trial only.

In his own words he wanted to go to Washington to "prove my innocence". Read his WC testimony and any interview he did after that. He always vehemently denied being part of a conspiracy. You've just picked one ambiguous sounding quote and based everything on that, without bothering to dig deeper. Because if you did bother to research it properly, you'll see the facts.

Read "Jack Ruby" by Garry Wills maybe, or the WC testimony, or interviews he did. As opposed to basing everything on a 10 second youtube clip.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

In my mind, we have a picture of two men behind the picket fence. One clearly in a suit. The other guy is harder to see but he could be the shooter

Black Dog Man is behind the wall apparently. That wall is a couple of feet high. Marilyn Sitzman saw a black couple eating their lunch there. Later confirmed by photos and smashed glass and coke on the ground, which she said she heard smash. Thats who it was. Two people sitting, eating their lunch.

This lunch.



The guy on the right, who you believe to be a shooter, the guy you have circled, is Abraham Zapruder.

You think Abraham Zapruder was one of the gunmen? You know you've circled him in your photo right? The "one clearly in a suit". Claiming him to be one of the shooters. Thats him standing on the concrete wall, taking a video. Thats Abraham Zapruder. Its the most watched video in history. You think hes a gunman now?

Dear God.