JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

The Nal

Oh dear

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Apparently is not a certainty. Why was the rifle still identified as Mauser 7.65mm rifle for two days? It already got established as 6.5 rifle made in Italy on 22th, you said? Capt Fritz does not say on the 23rd we have identified it as Italian made bolt action rifle. Instead, he says they had found a rifle and unknown type.? Something feels off about what happened here.

"Foreign made, "British made" "Italian made". They didn't place too much importance on it the the time. The fact remains that its a Carcano on the TV on the 22nd before it was handed to the FBI. Even the wildest conspiracy nuts wouldn't doubt that as its clear.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Where did Oswald buy the ammunition in Dallas? The Carcano rifle was designed during WW2 and production of the ammunition stopped after the war. Apparently, the ammo was only made for the military after WW2 for a few more years or so. There no information where exactly he got the bullets for the gun?

WTF? You can buy bullets today that will fit that Carcano. Do you think you have to buy "Carcano" bullets to fit a Carcano? Its a 6.5mm rifle.

Oswalds ammo came from 1 of the 4 lots here.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

And for what reason did Roger craig lie?

Money. Credible conspiracy theorists and his own daughter doesn't believe his story. Hes not credible.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Another officer swore also the gun was a Mauser 7.65mm. You think he made up it all up the officers saw a stamp on the barrel? And you ignored the discrepancy in Seymour Weitzman affivdat were he says a live shell was ejected from the rifle? Care to explain that, a mistake he lied what?

There were 4 bullets in the gun. Oswald used 3. Fritz ejected the last round, as per any procedure with a firearm.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Of course, this police officer who knew Ruby is lying when he said Ruby phoned him and told him they are going to kill him if Oswald brought through the basement. Ruby might have tried to get out of killing Oswald if this officer is not lying? This is not so unbelievable.

Wheres the evidence for this call? Search the HSCA phone records and show me please.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The CIA released that photo to the FBI in Sep 1963. Oswald was an unknown figure to most of the world then. Either the CIA was trying to throw the FBI off or that man was in Mexico claiming to be Oswald at Soviet Embassy? And yet the Cuban Government send a picture of a man who was not Oswald. By the way, HSCA was another government investigation so they will try to position themselves in a way not to discredit the Warren Commission findings.

Hang on, you're claiming the HSCA couldn't find evidence of his trip to Mexico and now that you've been shown that there is - overwhelming evidence - you're claiming the HSCA was a cover up?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

It's a Visa application that he might be planning a trip to Mexico.

The visa application was for Cuba. He was already in Mexico when it was filled in and signed. By Oswald.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Even you right he went to Mexico there no evidence he went to the Cuban and Soviet Embassy.

Apart from the people he met and the signed visa. They all noticed his erratic and aggressive behaviour. Marina confirms he went to Mexico.

So, wheres the evidence that Ruby was a mob hit man and had killed before?

Where is the picture you claim where you can see "Mauser" on it?

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

"Foreign made, "British made" "Italian made". They didn't place too much importance on it the the time. The fact remains that its a Carcano on the TV on the 22nd before it was handed to the FBI. Even the wildest conspiracy nuts wouldn't doubt that as its clear.






WTF? You can buy bullets today that will fit that Carcano. Do you think you have to buy "Carcano" bullets to fit a Carcano? Its a 6.5mm rifle.

Oswalds ammo came from 1 of the 4 lots here.





Money. Credible conspiracy theorists and his own daughter doesn't believe his story. Hes not credible.



There were 4 bullets in the gun. Oswald used 3. Fritz ejected the last round, as per any procedure with a firearm.




Wheres the evidence for this call? Search the HSCA phone records and show me please.



Hang on, you're claiming the HSCA couldn't find evidence of his trip to Mexico and now that you've been shown that there is - overwhelming evidence - you're claiming the HSCA was a cover up?




The visa application was for Cuba. He was already in Mexico when it was filled in and signed. By Oswald.




Apart from the people he met and the signed visa. They all noticed his erratic and aggressive behaviour. Marina confirms he went to Mexico.

So, wheres the evidence that Ruby was a mob hit man and had killed before?

Where is the picture you claim where you can see "Mauser" on it?

We move on from the rifle debate. I just say this. Maybe there was a confusion about the type of rifle found? Still, The timeline clearly doesn't support your argument in any way. As the Mauser 7.65 story did not go away till the 24th of Nov. Italian made rifle can't be a German Mauser. So why was Dallas Police still believing they found a German Mauser with a different calibre of the bullet after the 22th?

You maybe not aware. The boxes of ammo on show were cases in US military storage. They were shown to Warren Commission. They were ordered by the US Military and intelligence services like the CIA after the war. Western Cartridge confirmed they stopped producing the 6.5mm calibre for the Carcano in 1958 (they bullets Oswald used allegedly were traced to 1954) and the company never sold them to gun businesses after the war. They were produced on request from the USMC. Oswald could not have got the bullets in a gun shop and never came with the rifle. Questions remain where did he purchase the bullets and where they get them from?

Carcano can also fire 7.35mm bullets, that well known. You might be able to design a Carcano bullet in another workshop or at other company, but it, not the original calibre produced by the Western Cartridge company in the 1950s and traced to Oswald gun.

I not saying your wrong, but can you provide a source that states four bullets were loaded in the chamber by Oswald?

I posted a link to one of the JFK files in the archive. That a man phoned the Dallas station and said he was a member of the commission to kill Oswald and was giving them the warning to stop it. This could be Ruby not sure the files are often redacted and incomplete.

Cuban officials reported they told the Oswald who turned up to go away that it would take 4 months to process and he would need to make contact with the Soviet Embassy first. The Visa application was to visit Cuba. Can you provide a source for who in Cuban government send that application? The Cuban government send to HSCA a picture of the Oswald they claim showed up and he was an older man.

weisses

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Nah, that's not why.

This is a pretty basic concept. If someone wants to assert something happened (JFK being shot by Oswald), then they need to support it with evidence (Warren commission, etc)

If another person wants to assert something else happened, they have to do the same.

It's not complicated. I'm not sure why you get so agitated over it or seem to believe that conspiracy theorists occupy some "special" place that they don't have to support their own theories

As for your Jenkins question, I believe he's one of the team that performed the autopsy on JFK. How many were on the team in total?

Do you believe Jenkins ? Yes or No

I know he was not alone ...we all do

Cheerful Spring

This document confirms what I have just claimed about the bullets.


http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/FBI/FBI%20CIA%20Relations/Item%2006.pdf

Cheerful Spring

Oswalds bullets were traced to a government contract. The memorandum claims for the CIA very likely.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

We move on from the rifle debate. I just say this. Maybe there was a confusion about the type of rifle found? Still, The timeline clearly doesn't support your argument in any way. As the Mauser 7.65 story did not go away till the 24th of Nov. Italian made rifle can't be a German Mauser. So why was Dallas Police still believing they found a German Mauser with a different calibre of the bullet after the 22th?

Because of the initial confusion. No one put any importance on where it came from at the time. However, thats a Carcano in the police station on the 22nd. No question.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You maybe not aware. The boxes of ammo on show were cases in US military storage. They were shown to Warren Commission. They were ordered by the US Military and intelligence services like the CIA after the war. Western Cartridge confirmed they stopped producing the 6.5mm calibre for the Carcano in 1958 (they bullets Oswald used allegedly were traced to 1954) and the company never sold them to gun businesses after the war. They were produced on request from the USMC. Oswald could not have got the bullets in a gun shop and never came with the rifle. Questions remain where did he purchase the bullets and where they get them from?

The 6.5mm bullet that was found on the strecther - the single bullet - was ballistically proven to have come from Oswald's rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons.

On March 23, 1964, Mr. R.W. Botts, District Manager, Winchester-Western Division, Olin Mathieson Chemical Corporation, Braniff Building, advised that the Western Cartridge Company, a division of Olin Industries, East Alton, Illinois, manufactured a quantity of 6.5 M/M Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition for the Italian Government during World War II. At the end of the war the Italian Carcano rifle, and no telling how much of this type ammunition, was sold to United States gun brokers and dealers and subsequently was distributed by direct sales to wholesalers, retailers, and individual purchasers.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Carcano can also fire 7.35mm bullets, that well known. You might be able to design a Carcano bullet in another workshop or at other company, but it, not the original calibre produced by the Western Cartridge company in the 1950s and traced to Oswald gun.

I not saying your wrong, but can you provide a source that states four bullets were loaded in the chamber by Oswald?

No. Because he was shot before he went to to trial. But his rifle, his palm print, fibres from his shirt and fibres from the sheet the rifle was wrapped in were on the rifle, he was the only one confirmed on the 6th floor, he brought a package to work, no curtain rods were found in the TSBD and none were taken from Ruth Paines house, the stretcher bullet was fired from his rifle as were the ejected shells.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Cuban officials reported they told the Oswald who turned up to go away that it would take 4 months to process and he would need to make contact with the Soviet Embassy first. The Visa application was to visit Cuba. Can you provide a source for who in Cuban government send that application?

Yes. The person he met was called Sylvia Duran. She is the one who told him to go to the Russian embassy. Her name and number were later found in Oswalds address book. She is interviewed in that documentary I posted.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The Cuban government send to HSCA a picture of the Oswald they claim showed up and he was an older man.

Yes a totally different man. Clearly a mistake.

Cheerful Spring

Nal you just ignored what the memorandum from the FBI said.

The depository shells were manufactured under government contract (DA-23-196-
ORD-27) for the United States Marine Corps.

"A high-ranking FBI criminalist, R.H. Jevons, claimed that this type of ammunition "does not fit and cannot be fired in any of the USMC
weapons" Jevons' memo concludes: "This gives rise to the obvious speculation that it is a contract for ammunition placed by CIA with the company under a USMC cover for concealment.

6.5mm bullet found at Parkland hospital in suspicious circumstances you should have said.

This Oswald Wife testimony
Mr Rankin :Do you know whether your husband carried any package with him when he left the house on November 22nd?

Mrs Oswald :I think that he had a package with his lunch. But a small package.


Jack Dougherty, saw Oswald arrive inside the building. He claimed that Oswald had nothing in his hands (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.6, pp.376f

The curtain rod story is based on one guy claim. Even he claims the package was too small for a rifle. Could Oswald have packed his launch in this bag?

Ruth Paine who family are all in the CIA. Is strange how Oswald has so many friends with intelligence connections? He supposed to be some raving lunatic communist? Ruth Paine allowing a communist stay at her home during the cold war?

Clearly a mistake? The CIA sends the FBI a picture of Oswald who looks nothing like him in Sept 1963, two months before he allegedly shot Kennedy? There a lot of mistakes happening here.

Cheerful Spring

According to Captain Will Fritz, who interrogated Oswald, “He said he didn’t have any kind of a package but his lunch. He said he had his lunch and that is all he had …. He said, ‘No. I didn’t carry anything but my lunch’” (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.4, pp.218.

The Nal

Lots of oddities yep. The picture of David Ferrie and Oswald at a BBQ in the marines is an odd coincidence. But Oswald was 16. Hardly recruiting age. I don't remember everyone I've ever met at every work night out I've had. Odd nonetheless.

As are the Paines CIA connections. However they weren't "clearly" CIA. How Ruth Paine met the Oswalds was a complete coincidence too. Total chance.

Oswald always claimed to be a Marxist and not a communist.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Lots of oddities yep. The picture of David Ferrie and Oswald at a BBQ in the marines is an odd coincidence. But Oswald was 16. Hardly recruiting age. I don't remember everyone I've ever met at every work night out I've had. Odd nonetheless.

As are the Paines CIA connections. However they weren't "clearly" CIA. How Ruth Paine met the Oswalds was a complete coincidence too. Total chance.

Oswald always claimed to be a Marxist and not a communist.

I never said he was recruited by David Ferrie. What it does show both men were in the same unit and very likely they talked and knew each other. Oswald future activities likely brought them together again. David Ferrie was an asset of the CIA or do you dispute that claim?

Oswald was stationed in Japan at CIA monitoring base. U2 flights flew out of there to spy on the Soviet Union. Strange place for a Marxist to be at. Oswald fits the profile of someone who would be sheep-dipped and put in place to spy on pro-Castro Cuban activities. Oswald pro-Castro leaflets were printed with an address and just happened to have the same near address as Guy Banister office. No way that's a coincidence.

Oswald was introduced to Ruth Paine by George de Mohrenschildt, who also is believed to have intelligence connections.

Cheerful Spring

Clearly not CIA?

Aaccording to a declassified CIA document, Ruth's sister, Sylvia Hyde Hoke, was listed as an employee of the agency in the Falls Church, VA local directory in 1961. Ruth visited and stayed with her sister in September 1963. Ruth admits that her sister may have worked for "an outfit."[31]

Ruth's father, William Avery Hyde, was an insurance executive who went to work for USAID (United States Agency for International Development), which was and is a well known cover for CIA personnel. Declassified documents show that Hyde had contacts with the CIA, which at least considered him for use in an operation in Vietnam.[31]

Ruth's husband Michael Paine was the son of Ruth Forbes Paine and George Lyman Paine Jr.. Ruth Forbes Paine was a close friend of Mary Bancroft, an OSS agent and at times a mistress of CIA director Allen Dulles and Henry Luce.[32] Forbes Paine was also a student of Carl Jung.[33] Ruth Forbes Paine later married Arthur M. Young, who was a member of Andrija Puharich's Roundtable Foundation.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I never said he was recruited by David Ferrie. What it does show both men were in the same unit and very likely they talked and knew each other. Oswald future activities likely brought them together again. David Ferrie was an asset of the CIA or do you dispute that claim?

He was. With likely mob links aswell.

However as odd as it is it doesn't prove they knew each other. Theres no evidence that they spoke then and no evidence they spoke in the 8 years between then and Oswalds death. And theres no evidence Ferrie had anything to do with Kennedys death.

I'm not denying its a very odd coincidence though.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Oswald was stationed in Japan at CIA monitoring base. U2 flights flew out of there to spy on the Soviet Union. Strange place for a Marxist to be at. Oswald fits the profile of someone who would be sheep-dipped and put in place to spy on pro-Castro Cuban activities.

Oswald was odd and 100% genuine in his political beliefs. Castro was his hero. He was a committed Marxist. The reason he was in the marines was partly because its a strange place for a Marxist to be at. Which is why I'm recommending you read up on him to get a full rounded and deep understanding of him. Fascinating character.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Oswald pro-Castro leaflets just happened to have the same near address as Guy Banister. No way that's a coincidence.

Another odd one yep. A genuine coincidence I believe though.

The real story is just as interesting. Oswald was desperately trying to start a Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in New Orleans. He did, with one member, himself. The first few times he handed out pamphlets they had his home or PO box address on them.

Then he met anti Castro Carlos Bringuier of the Cuban Revolutionary Council. He tried to infiltrate that group. Oswald never rented that address. However Carlos Bringuier had done. Oswald knew this and put that address on the pamphlets on a day that he had invited the local news to come round and film him handing them out on Canal St, around the corner from where Bringuier worked. The reporter had covered him doing this before and Oswald told him he would invite him back when he was handing them out again.

Clearly a well laid trap for Bringuier to confront Oswald (which he did) and they all got chucked in jail. Oswald had the choice to pay a $25 fine and leave or to stay in jail. He chose to stay in jail. The questioning officer later said it looked like Oswald had set Bringuier up. Hence the later appearances of "it was staged" in conspiracy books. It was staged. By Oswald. This was all done to prove to the Fair Play For Cuba HQ in New York that he was worthy and legit. A "street agitator".

Here he is on the TV. This is not the work of a covert group planning to use this man to assassinate the president in a couple of months time.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Oswald was introduced to Ruth Paine by George de Mohrenschildt, who also is believed to have intelligence connections.

And he used those connections to see if it was "safe" to be friends with Oswald. Mohrenschildt is another odd one. But ultimately seems unstable.

Oswald hung around with strange people. But he was an American Marxist marine who defected and lived in Russia during the cold war. He was never going to hang about with normal people.

I just don't buy that someone so loud and visible - a defector with a Russian wife, who is pro Castro and has recently been on TV and radio talking up Marxism, denouncing Capitalism and arrested for a scuffle with anti Castro Cubans and has an open FBI file to his name - is the man who was chosen to carry out the biggest assassination in history. Which is why I think he did it alone.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Clearly not CIA?

Nope. None of that proves she was CIA. Theres no evidence for that. Her family, yeah. Her, no evidence. And she has been investigated thoroughly. As has Michael.

Tipsy McSwagger

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

According to Captain Will Fritz, who interrogated Oswald, “He said he didn’t have any kind of a package but his lunch. He said he had his lunch and that is all he had …. He said, ‘No. I didn’t carry anything but my lunch’” (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.4, pp.218.

Well then that rules Oswald out since no murderer would ever lie.

The Nal

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Well then that rules Oswald out since no murderer would ever lie.

He lied about having an Alek Hidell ID despite having it on him when he was arrested!



He lied about owning the rifle despite the mail order showing it was sent to Alek Hidell at his address and there being signed photos of him with the rifle.





On Oswalds personality - one night he had a fight with Marina (he used to beat her up a lot) and this particular night he was beating her up and the baby started crying so he went to tend to the baby. As he was doing that Marina went into the bathroom and tried to hang herself from the shower rail. He came back in and saw her doing this and beat her up some more. People try to make out that he was some placid loser patsy. He wasn't a nice guy or a stable person.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

He was. With likely mob links aswell.

However as odd as it is it doesn't prove they knew each other. Theres no evidence that they spoke then and no evidence they spoke in the 8 years between then and Oswalds death. And theres no evidence Ferrie had anything to do with Kennedys death.

I'm not denying its a very odd coincidence though.



Oswald was odd and 100% genuine in his political beliefs. Castro was his hero. He was a committed Marxist. The reason he was in the marines was partly because its a strange place for a Marxist to be at. Which is why I'm recommending you read up on him to get a full rounded and deep understanding of him. Fascinating character.



Another odd one yep. A genuine coincidence I believe though.

The real story is just as interesting. Oswald was desperately trying to start a Fair Play for Cuba Committee chapter in New Orleans. He did, with one member, himself. The first few times he handed out pamphlets they had his home or PO box address on them.

Then he met anti Castro Carlos Bringuier of the Cuban Revolutionary Council. He tried to infiltrate that group. Oswald never rented that address. However Carlos Bringuier had done. Oswald knew this and put that address on the pamphlets on a day that he had invited the local news to come round and film him handing them out on Canal St, around the corner from where Bringuier worked. The reporter had covered him doing this before and Oswald told him he would invite him back when he was handing them out again.

Clearly a well laid trap for Bringuier to confront Oswald (which he did) and they all got chucked in jail. Oswald had the choice to pay a $25 fine and leave or to stay in jail. He chose to stay in jail. The questioning officer later said it looked like Oswald had set Bringuier up. Hence the later appearances of "it was staged" in conspiracy books. It was staged. By Oswald. This was all done to prove to the Fair Play For Cuba HQ in New York that he was worthy and legit. A "street agitator".

Here he is on the TV. This is not the work of a covert group planning to use this man to assassinate the president in a couple of months time.

And he used those connections to see if it was "safe" to be friends with Oswald. Mohrenschildt is another odd one. But ultimately seems unstable.

Oswald hung around with strange people. But he was an American Marxist marine who defected and lived in Russia during the cold war. He was never going to hang about with normal people.

I just don't buy that someone so loud and visible - a defector with a Russian wife, who is pro Castro and has recently been on TV and radio talking up Marxism, denouncing Capitalism and arrested for a scuffle with anti Castro Cubans and has an open FBI file to his name - is the man who was chosen to carry out the biggest assassination in history. Which is why I think he did it alone.



Nope. None of that proves she was CIA. Theres no evidence for that. Her family, yeah. Her, no evidence. And she has been investigated thoroughly. As has Michael.

Ferrie was spotted at 544 CAMP ST with Guy Bannister, and it was printed on Oswald pro-Cuban Leaflets the address 544 CAMP ST. Ferrie was in the same unit as Oswald. Ferrie was in a location that he would run into and meet Oswald again. I think it suspicious. You said was an odd coincidence least that something

Guy Bannister was known to be a militant anti-communist and angry man. If Oswald was inside the same building and printing out pro-Castro information. I think this would have lead to fight and a disturbance when both men saw each other. Guy Bannister had intelligence connections. I find just find it unlikely he was totally unaware of communist activities occuring inside the building he had an office at? Where did Oswald print those leaflets inside the building exactly, what room number or office?

If Oswald was an intelligence agent then has to act the part. You have to play the pro-Castro character as a double agent.

From Oswald bio on Wikipedia
Edward Voebel, "whom the Warren Commission had established was Oswald's closest friend during his teenage years in New Orleans..... said that reports that Oswald was already 'studying Communism' were a 'lot of baloney.' " Voebel said that "Oswald commonly read 'paperback trash.'"[25][26][27]

Oswald is perfect patsy. He was leading a double life pretending to be communist and Marxist, had gone to the Soviet Union. Spoke Russian. The conspirators did have to plant a fake story for the most part as he done this stuff in person for real. All they had to do destroy evidence or not show anyone information about Oswald covert activities. By the way and well known Oswald files held by the US government and defence establishment were destroyed and you aware of this?

Ruth paine family has CIA connections. Her involvement with the CIA could easily have got covered up and any information destroyed.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

He lied about having an Alek Hidell ID despite having it on him when he was arrested!



He lied about owning the rifle despite the mail order showing it was sent to Alek Hidell at his address and there being signed photos of him with the rifle.





On Oswalds personality - one night he had a fight with Marina (he used to beat her up a lot) and this particular night he was beating her up and the baby started crying so he went to tend to the baby. As he was doing that Marina went into the bathroom and tried to hang herself from the shower rail. He came back in and saw her doing this and beat her up some more. People try to make out that he was some placid loser patsy. He wasn't a nice guy or a stable person.

So he had fake military IDs and was using a false name? Is that not what you expect someone involved in intelligence to have?

The rifle was sent to a post office box, not an address.

This story of Richard Case Nagell explains why Oswald had an ID with a different name. He had inside information about the conspiracy.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Ferrie was spotted at 544 CAMP ST with Guy Bannister, and it was printed on Oswald pro-Cuban Leaflets the address 544 CAMP ST. Ferrie was in the same unit as Oswald. Ferrie was in a location that he would run into and meet Oswald again. I think it suspicious. You said was an odd coincidence least that something

Guy Bannister was known to be a militant anti-communist and angry man. If Oswald was inside the same building and printing out pro-Castro information. I think this would have lead to fight and a disturbance when both men saw each other. Guy Bannister had intelligence connections. I find just find it unlikely he was totally unaware of communist activities occuring inside the building he had an office at? Where did Oswald print those leaflets inside the building exactly, what room number or office?

If Oswald was an intelligence agent then has to act the part. You have to play the pro-Castro character as a double agent.

From Oswald bio on Wikipedia
Edward Voebel, "whom the Warren Commission had established was Oswald's closest friend during his teenage years in New Orleans..... said that reports that Oswald was already 'studying Communism' were a 'lot of baloney.' " Voebel said that "Oswald commonly read 'paperback trash.'"[25][26][27]

Oswald is perfect patsy. He was leading a double life pretending to be communist and Marxist, had gone to the Soviet Union. Spoke Russian. The conspirators did have to plant a fake story for the most part as he done this stuff in person for real. All they had to do destroy evidence or not show anyone information about Oswald covert activities. By the way and well known Oswald files held by the US government and defence establishment were destroyed and you aware of this?

Ruth paine family has CIA connections. Her involvement with the CIA could easily have got covered up and any information destroyed.

Bannisters office was in 531 Lafayette St. Some of the leaflets Oswald had said 544 Camp St. The same physical building sure but to get from one to the other you needed to go down the stairs and around the corner and through another door. You couldn't get from one office to another from within the building.

As for Oswald not being a commie or a Marxist and only pretending to be. Thats just simply not true. You can quote mine from wikipedia all you like.

What is it with people who by default gravitate to conspiracy theories and quote mining? Is it laziness?

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Bannisters office was in 531 Lafayette St. Some of the leaflets Oswald had said 544 Camp St. The same physical building sure but to get from one to the other you needed to go down the stairs and around the corner and through another door. You couldn't get from one office to another from within the building.

As for Oswald not being a commie or a Marxist and only pretending to be. Thats just simply not true. You can quote mine from wikipedia all you like.

What difference does that make? The leaflets were printed at a building at 544 Camp ST. That does not say guy bannister office it ignored? It's the same building either way that no coincidence.

Well, the evidence shows otherwise. Watch that video I posted. Even his closest friend said he no interest in communism when he knew him.

Tipsy McSwagger

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

According to Captain Will Fritz, who interrogated Oswald, “He said he didn’t have any kind of a package but his lunch. He said he had his lunch and that is all he had …. He said, ‘No. I didn’t carry anything but my lunch’” (Warren Commission Hearings, vol.4, pp.218.

Just going back to this post. You previously posted that LHO brought a package to work that day, and Wesley Frazier believed it was too small to hold a sniper rifle. Now you’re posting that LHO denied to Fritz he ever had such a package. So why is Oswald clearly lying?

Cheerful Spring

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Just going back to this post. You previously posted that LHO brought a package to work that day, and Wesley Frazier believed it was too small to hold a sniper rifle. Now you’re posting that LHO denied to Fritz he ever had such a package. So why is Oswald clearly lying?

He never denied a package. Oswald claims it contained his lunch, not a rifle. There different eyewitnesses saying different things. I don't know who right. Oswald wife said the lunch was in a small package.

Oswald is not who he appears to be. If Oswald was involved in this he was not alone. But I open to he was set up as the fall guy for the killing.

.

Cheerful Spring

OSWALD stated that on November 22, 1963, at the time of the search of the Texas School Book Depository building by Dallas police officers, he was on the second floor of said building, having just purchased a Coca–cola from the soft-drink machine, at which time a police officer came into the room with pistol drawn and asked him if he worked there. MR. TRULY was present and verified that he was an employee and the police officer thereafter left the room and continued through the building. OSWALD stated that he took this Coke down to the first floor and stood around and had lunch in the employees’ lunch room. He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman BILL SHELLEY, and thereafter went home.

Interesting if Bill Shelley backs this story up?

Cheerful Spring

Very strange. The chicken bones were claimed to be leftovers Oswald had. Working my way through Bill Shelley Warren commission testimony right now.

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, I went up later on that day; I believe after we had gotten back from City Hall with someone, I don't remember who it was, one of the officers and they got them.
Mr. BALL - They did what?
Mr. SHELLEY - They got the bones.
Mr. BALL - Where were they?
Mr. SHELLEY - They were on the third--yeah, it would be the third window from the southeast corner.
Mr. BALL - And were they in a sack?
Mr. SHELLEY - Laying on a sack.
Mr. BALL - Laying on a sack?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir; with a coke bottle sitting in the window.
Mr. BALL - Did you see any other chicken bones anyplace around there?
Mr. SHELLEY - No, sir; that's all.
Mr. BALL - That's the only ones?
Mr. SHELLEY - That's all.

Checked this again it the right location it one whole long floor on the 6th floor.


Warren commission never asked was he standing with Oswald for five or ten minutes. Strange they never asked and did he say anything? Oswald was said to have left TSBD at 12.33. Kennedy was shot at 12.30

Cheerful Spring

Warren Commission ignored this woman testimony.

Carolyn Arnold, a secretary working for the Texas School Book Depository, provided support for Lee Harvey Oswald’s alibi, that he was on the first (i.e. ground) floor of the TSBD at the time of President Kennedy’s assassination. She saw him in the lunch area at 12.25.

And these guys.
James “Junior” Jarman and Harold Norman, who indirectly attested to Oswald’s presence on the first floor at “between 12:20 and 12:25.

Being at lunch would explain why Oswald was in this area when Cops saw him.

Tipsy McSwagger

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

He never denied a package. Oswald claims it contained his lunch, not a rifle. There different eyewitnesses saying different things. I don't know who right. Oswald wife said the lunch was in a small package.

Oswald is not who he appears to be. If Oswald was involved in this he was not alone. But I open to he was set up as the fall guy for the killing.

.

No you’re wrong he claimed the package contained curtain rods when asked by his fellow employee Frazier. You stated this in your previous post about Wesley Frazier.

Cheerful Spring

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

No you’re wrong he claimed the package contained curtain rods when asked by his fellow employee Frazier. You stated this in your previous post about Wesley Frazier.

Yes, he did but his the only person who claims this. Nobody else saw this bag with a rifle or curtain rods. Oswald wife said he took a small brown package to work with him and it contained his lunch. What happened to his lunch in the package? Even Frazier says the bag was too small for a rifle.

Cheerful Spring

Tipsy McSwagger the timeline to get from 6th floor to the 2nd floor is alleged to have been achieved in 90 seconds. He was confronted in lunch room by a police officer 90 seconds after the shooting. He had to dump the gun and get down to 2th floor in 90 seconds. A police officer said he was calm and not out of breath. If I came down 4 floors in a hurry I will be out of breath.

He was in 2th-floor lunch room were workers had seen him 5 minutes before the shooting. Warren commission ignored them and did call them to testify.

Tipsy McSwagger

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yes, he did but his the only person who claims this. Nobody else saw this bag with a rifle or curtain rods. Oswald wife said he took a small brown package to work with him and it contained his lunch. What happened to his lunch in the package? Even Frazier says the bag was too small for a rifle.

You’re contradicting yourself now. A few posts ago you claimed Frazier said the package was too small to contain curtain rods and now you are doubting his story. Frazier is a solid witness who says Oswald told him the day before the 22nd he wanted a lift to work as he had some curtain rods. The next day he shows up to Frazier’s house with a package that he said was curtain rods. He then drove to work and then watched Oswald exit the car and walk ahead of him with the long package that contained ‘curtain rods’. Now if Oswald is innocent why not tell the truth to Fritz, that yes he brought curtain rods to work with him and then tell him where they can be located?

Tipsy McSwagger

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Tipsy McSwagger the timeline to get from 6th floor to the 2nd floor is alleged to have been achieved in 90 seconds. He was confronted in lunch room by a police officer 90 seconds after the shooting. He had to dump the gun and get down to 2th floor in 90 seconds. A police officer said he was calm and not out of breath. If I came down 4 floors in a hurry I will be out of breath.

He was in 2th-floor lunch room were workers had seen him 5 minutes before the shooting. Warren commission ignored them and did call them to testify.

Earl Warren was able to do it and he was 72 years of age.

Cheerful Spring

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

You’re contradicting yourself now. A few posts ago you claimed Frazier said the package was too small to contain curtain rods and now you are doubting his story. Frazier is a solid witness who says Oswald told him the day before the 22nd he wanted a lift to work as he had some curtain rods. The next day he shows up to Frazier’s house with a package that he said was curtain rods. He then drove to work and then watched Oswald exit the car and walk ahead of him with the long package that contained ‘curtain rods’. Now if Oswald is innocent why not tell the truth to Fritz, that yes he brought curtain rods to work with him and then tell him where they can be located?

That not true. Frasier claimed the package was too small to contain a rifle. He never said it was a long package. Frasier also claimed on video the Dallas Police wanted him to a false statement and say the package was bigger then it was. His account reveals a lot of what went on back then ie witness intimidation. I can not say for certain the curtain rod story is true, but even if it is Frazier claims that rifle was placed in TSBD before the shooting. Was the Curtain rod package found and taken away? It would surprise me in the least. And even if you don't believe that watch him speak about it on this video.