JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

Cheerful Spring

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Earl Warren was able to do it and he was 72 years of age.

Is there a video of this? Did he re-nact all positions Oswald was at. Looking out the window, removing the rifle, placing the rifle behind boxes, then going down 4 floors in 90 seconds?

Tipsy McSwagger

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

That not true. Frasier claimed the package was too small to contain a rifle. He never said it was a long package. Frasier also claimed on video the Dallas Police wanted him to a false statement and say the package was bigger then it was. His account reveals a lot of what went on back then ie witness intimidation. I can not say for certain the curtain rod story is true, but even if it is Frazier claims that rifle was placed in TSBD before the shooting. Was the Curtain rod package found and taken away? It would surprise me in the least. And even if you don't believe that watch him speak about it on this video.

Mr. FRAZIER - If, if you were going to measure it that way from the end of the seat over toward the center, right. But I say like I said I just roughly estimate and that would be around two feet, give and take a few inches.
Mr. BALL - How wide was the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I would say the package was about that wide.
Mr. BALL - How wide would you say that would be?
Mr. FRAZIER - Oh, say, around 5 inches, something like that. 5, 6 inches or there

So over 2 feet in length and 5/6 inches in width is not considered a long package? Here’s his testimony to the WC,

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm

Tipsy McSwagger

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Is there a video of this? Did he re-nact all positions Oswald was at. Looking out the window, removing the rifle, placing the rifle behind boxes, then going down 4 floors in 90 seconds?

Ye Abraham Zapruder filmed it on his iPhone 8.

Cheerful Spring

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Mr. FRAZIER - If, if you were going to measure it that way from the end of the seat over toward the center, right. But I say like I said I just roughly estimate and that would be around two feet, give and take a few inches.
Mr. BALL - How wide was the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I would say the package was about that wide.
Mr. BALL - How wide would you say that would be?
Mr. FRAZIER - Oh, say, around 5 inches, something like that. 5, 6 inches or there

So over 2 feet in length and 5/6 inches in width is not considered a long package? Here’s his testimony to the WC,

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/frazierb1.htm

Carcano rifle is over 40 inches. Plus the shape of the rifle would be noticeable in a package.

It obvious Oswald was set up as a Patsy.

I just found out that D h Bryd owned the TSBD building and he was a co-founder of Civil aviation group that Oswald and Ferrie were also in. Another strange coincidence. I beginning to think Oswald was placed there on purpose on a mission and he might not have even know what the plan was for him? When the assassination happened he panicked and went got his gun as he knew something had gone wrong and he was in danger.

Cheerful Spring

William Shelley who was Oswald boss. Was army intelligence officer during WW2 . People claim he later joined the CIA but have been able to pin down if that credible yet.

TSBD is not what seems either some innocent company that got caught up in the event.

Cheerful Spring

William Shelley and his crew of five men were adding new plywood to the old floor on the 6th floor that week. These men were never identified? Where they off that day when Lee was up there?

Roy Truly, the "superintendent" who hired Oswald was "a building manager." In a story published the day after the assassination, Dallas Morning News reporter Kent Biffle referred to Roy Truly as "Superintendent of the textbook building...." The floor crew was supervised directly by William Shelly, "the assistant manager who was in charge of the floor laying project.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Carcano rifle is over 40 inches. Plus the shape of the rifle would be noticeable in a package.

It obvious Oswald was set up as a Patsy.

[BI just found out[/b] that D h Bryd owned the TSBD building and he was a co-founder of Civil aviation group that Oswald and Ferrie were also in.

For someone who claims to profess so much knowledge about this subject that you choose to use this phrase a lot!

Another strange coincidence. I beginning to think Oswald was placed there on purpose on a mission and he might not have even know what the plan was for him? When the assassination happened he panicked and went got his gun as he knew something had gone wrong and he was in danger.

So more guess work and conjecture from you :rolleyes:

Cheerful Spring

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

For someone who claims to profess so much knowledge about this subject that you choose to use this phrase a lot!



So more guess work and conjecture from you :rolleyes:

So it just coincidence the owner of TSBD was the co-owner of the civil aviation patrol that both Oswald and Ferrie were in? There all these weird connections to Oswald life in the past.

It actually makes sense now why Oswald said he was easily lead and manipulated when he was arrested. Oswald was placed in TSBD on a mission. He may have not known the in and outs of the mission as we only working there for a number of weeks and then when Kennedy got shot he realised something was up and left and got his gun. I bet he went to that theatre to meet up with his contact and find out what the hell was going on.

Whiplash85

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

Ye Abraham Zapruder filmed it on his iPhone 8.

What age are you, 8?

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

So it just coincidence the owner of TSBD was the co-owner of the civil aviation patrol that both Oswald and Ferrie were in? There all these weird connections to Oswald life in the past.

It actually makes sense now why Oswald said he was easily lead and manipulated when he was arrested. Oswald was placed in TSBD on a mission. He may have not known the in and outs of the mission as we only working there for a number of weeks and then when Kennedy got shot he realised something was up and left and got his gun. I bet he went to that theatre to meet up with his contact and find out what the hell was going on.

Hilarious :pac:

You really are the gift that keeps on giving !

Cheerful Spring

Timberrrrrrrr You might think that bull****. Oswald made one phone call to an address in Raleigh Carolina. He did not try ringing his wife or a lawyer while in custody. This call was traced to a number belonging to intelligence officer called John Hurt.


On the night of November 23, 1963, two telephone operators were working the
switchboard that controlled, among other Dallas municipal offices, the jail.
One of the ladies, Mrs. Alveeta A. Treon, made a statement concerning the
events of that night to assassination researcher and attorney Bernard
Fensterwald some five years after the assassination, but then refused to
sign it on advice from her lawyer, according to Fensterwald. The following
is a condensation of that statement:

Mrs. Treon arrived for work at the switchboard between 10:15 and 10:35 that
evening, and was told by her fellow worker, Mrs. Louise Swinney, that their
supervisor had asked them to assist law enforcement officials to listen to a
call that Lee Harvey Oswald would be making soon. Two men, that Mrs. Treon
thinks might have been Secret Service agents, subsequently came into the
switchboard area and were put in an adjacent room where they could monitor
the expected call.

At about 10:45, the call from the jail came through, and both ladies rushed
to take it. Mrs. Swinney handled the call, as it turned out; wrote down the
information on the number Oswald wished to reach; and notified the two men
of the call. Quoting from Mrs. Treon's statement: "I was dumbfounded at what
happened next. Mrs. Swinney opened the key to Oswald and told him, 'I'm
sorry, the number doesn't answer.' She then unplugged and disconnected
Oswald without ever really trying to put the call through. A few moments
later, Mrs. Swinney tore the page off her notation pad and threw it into the
wastepaper basket."

After Mrs. Swinney left work at approximately 11:00 p.m., Mrs. Treon
retrieved the piece of paper, and copied the information from it onto a
telephone slip commonly used by the operators to record calls, so that she
could keep it as a "souvenir."

That slip, which would turn up seven years later in a Freedom of Information
suit brought by Chicago researcher Sherman H. Skolnick (a civil action filed
in Federal District Court in Chicago, April 6, 1970, No. 70C 790), contains
some startling things. It purports to show a collect call attempted from the
jail by Lee Harvey Oswald to a John Hurt at 919-834-7430 and it gives
another telephone number in the 919 Area Code, 833-1253. (The slip is
reproduced in the Appendix of the 1975 book, Coup d'Etat in America by
Canfield and Weberman, the first major work to deal with the "Raleigh call"
and its implications for Oswald's links to intelligence agencies.)

Cheerful Spring

The 1975 testimony of CIA director Richard Helm, taken by the commission’s counsel, David Belin, cut off right at the most tantalizing part.

MR. BELIN: Well, now, the final area of my interrogation relates to charges that the CIA was in some way conspiratorially involved with the assassination of President Kennedy. During the time of the Warren Commission, you were Deputy Director of Plans, is that correct?

MR. HELMS: I believe so.

MR. BELIN: Is there any information involved with the assassination of President Kennedy which in any way shows that Lee Harvey Oswald was in some way a CIA agent or an age[nt]…

In 1994 his answer was released and he denied it. He has known liar so we can't trust him.

Richard Helms, a former director of central intelligence who defiantly guarded some of the darkest secrets of the cold war, died of multiple myeloma today. He was 89.

An urbane and dashing spymaster, Mr. Helms began his career with a reputation as a truth teller and became a favorite of lawmakers in the late 1960's and early 70's.

But he eventually ran afoul of Congressional investigators who found that he had lied or withheld information about the United States role in assassination attempts in Cuba, anti-government activities in Chile and the illegal surveillance of journalists in the United States.

The Nal

The amount of quote mines, conjecture, incorrect information and outright lies being posted in this thread by Cheerful Spring is astonishing. No interest in facts or the real story whatsoever.

Whats more astonishing is that he continues to do it despite being proven as wrong and caught out lying so many times. It must be exhausting.

The 2am brain diarrhoea above. Just too much to correct

Dohnjoe

It's not exhausting at all, it's relatively simple to do. It's not about the veracity of the information, it's simply about stamina. Literally someone can keep posting nonsense longer than others can be bothered addressing it - it requires a lot less effort to post bull**** than to refute it

weisses

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's not exhausting at all, it's relatively simple to do. It's not about the veracity of the information, it's simply about stamina. Literally someone can keep posting nonsense longer than others can be bothered addressing it - it requires a lot less effort to post bull**** than to refute it

Do you believe Jenkins ?

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

The amount of quote mines, conjecture, incorrect information and outright lies being posted in this thread by Cheerful Spring is astonishing. No interest in facts or the real story whatsoever.

Whats more astonishing is that he continues to do it despite being proven as wrong and caught out lying so many times. It must be exhausting.

The 2am brain diarrhoea above. Just too much to correct

You settled on a belief that Oswald acted alone and therefore any evidence that contradicts that theory is dismissed by you.

Did Oswald make a call to an intelligence officer in Raleigh? Or do you just think it made up information?

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You settled on a belief that Oswald acted alone and therefore any evidence that contradicts that theory is dismissed by you.

Did Oswald make a call to an intelligence officer in Raleigh? Or do you just think it made up information?

And you settled on your own belief that more than 3 shots were fired that day and any evidence that contradicts that theory is dismissed by you. Even when the evidence tgat 3 shots were fired is from one of your own "expert" witnesses.

Cheerful Spring

Hoover appeared to be particularly concerned that the public would have to be compelled to believe that Oswald was a lone actor — not part of a larger conspiracy.


Referring to Nicholas Katzenbach, the deputy attorney general at the time, Hoover dictated: "The thing I am concerned about, and so is Mr. Katzenbach, is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assassin."
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/jfk-assassination-files/jfk-files-j-edgar-hoover-said-public-must-believe-lee-n814881

Why would Hoover care so much, if the facts did show Oswald was a lone shooter? Seems to be he knows more then he's letting on.

Why would Hoover be so interested in Oswald, years before the day of the shooting in Dallas? For the head of the FBI to be following Oswald movements so closely in New Orleans is just weird.

Cheerful Spring

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And you settled on your own belief that more than 3 shots were fired that day and any evidence that contradicts that theory is dismissed by you. Even when the evidence tgat 3 shots were fired is from one of your own "expert" witnesses.

It could be 3 shots but my position on this likely 4 shots or more. I don't believe Oswald fired any shots that day. He was set up. Many credible eyewitnesses who worked at TSBD placed him having lunch at 12.20 and 12.25. It could not have fired a rifle from the 6th floor he would not have had time. There no picture of him pointing a rifle out the window either as Kennedy car passed the TSBD. The Warren Commission ignored eyewitnesses who account did not support the lone gunman theory.

He was placed in TSBD by his intelligence handlers and was manipulated and lead towards this event in Dallas.

Oswald said he was a patsy he revealed his inner feelings. He phoned that Intelligence officer in Raleigh to get further instructions and find out why this was happening to him.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I don't believe Oswald fired any shots that day. He was set up.

Set up by who exactly?

Ah sorry, I forgot, it's a "coverup", we can't know that.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Did Oswald make a call to an intelligence officer in Raleigh?

No he did not. Read below. You're wrong again. Why don't you read up about the things you post? Maybe get a 2nd opinion.

"A peculiar incident possibly linking Oswald to the military intelligence was the mysterious telephone call involving Oswald in the Dallas County Jail following his arrest. The first account that emerged from intensely conflicting evidence was that Oswald tried to make an outgoing telephone call to one John Hurt in the 919 area code, which is eastern North Carolina. For years a debate continued about whether the call was really outgoing to North Carolina or incoming to the jail, since the best evidence was on a slip of paper written by a jail telephone operator and, according to one version, thrown into a trash can and later retrieved by a souvenir hunter. The evidence was tainted, to say the least, and the contradictory testimony of the telephone operators only added to the confusion. The speculation was that Oswald, if an agent, might have been trying to contact his control.
When researchers finally found a John Hurt in Raleigh, North Carolina, he proclaimed complete ignorance about the matter. He said he had never known or heard of Oswald before the assassination and that he made no telephone call to Oswald and, of course, had no knowledge of Oswald’s trying to telephone him.

This claim was quickly tarnished, however, when researchers discovered that Hurt had a background in military intelligence as well as a law degree. Hurt insisted to researchers that he had no idea why Oswald might want to call him. That only fanned speculation that Hurt — who perhaps had some covert operations connection with Oswald — was keeping the cover. The mystery remained, even though arguments that the call was incoming were as strong as the arguments that Oswald made the call.

John Hurt died in 1981. A few months later, his wife told the author that Hurt had admitted the truth before he died. Terribly upset on the day of the assassination, he got extremely drunk — a habitual problem with him — and telephoned the Dallas jail and asked to speak to Oswald. When denied access, he left his name and number. Mrs. Hurt said her husband told her he never had any earlier contact with Oswald and had been too embarrassed to admit that he got drunk and placed the call. In view of the fact that Hurt’s military-intelligence background appears innocent of any deep operational connections, the account by John Hurt’s wife makes as much sense as anything else.

Likewise, conspiracy author David Lifton called Hurt circa 1970, and Hurt admitted to him that he was drunk, and had made what was, in effect, a crank phone call. Lifton believed that Hurt sounded credible. Lifton concluded “I had done what I could do, pursuing this lead, and there wasn’t much to it.”

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Set up by who exactly?

Ah sorry, I forgot, it's a "coverup", we can't know that.

The organisers of this coup. Hoover was likely involved, and politicians who wanted rid of Kennedy. Something this big you need the FBI to cover the investigation later.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

No he did not. Read below. You're wrong again. Why don't you read up about the things you post? Maybe get a 2nd opinion.

"A peculiar incident possibly linking Oswald to the military intelligence was the mysterious telephone call involving Oswald in the Dallas County Jail following his arrest. The first account that emerged from intensely conflicting evidence was that Oswald tried to make an outgoing telephone call to one John Hurt in the 919 area code, which is eastern North Carolina. For years a debate continued about whether the call was really outgoing to North Carolina or incoming to the jail, since the best evidence was on a slip of paper written by a jail telephone operator and, according to one version, thrown into a trash can and later retrieved by a souvenir hunter. The evidence was tainted, to say the least, and the contradictory testimony of the telephone operators only added to the confusion. The speculation was that Oswald, if an agent, might have been trying to contact his control.
When researchers finally found a John Hurt in Raleigh, North Carolina, he proclaimed complete ignorance about the matter. He said he had never known or heard of Oswald before the assassination and that he made no telephone call to Oswald and, of course, had no knowledge of Oswald’s trying to telephone him.

This claim was quickly tarnished, however, when researchers discovered that Hurt had a background in military intelligence as well as a law degree. Hurt insisted to researchers that he had no idea why Oswald might want to call him. That only fanned speculation that Hurt — who perhaps had some covert operations connection with Oswald — was keeping the cover. The mystery remained, even though arguments that the call was incoming were as strong as the arguments that Oswald made the call.

John Hurt died in 1981. A few months later, his wife told the author that Hurt had admitted the truth before he died. Terribly upset on the day of the assassination, he got extremely drunk — a habitual problem with him — and telephoned the Dallas jail and asked to speak to Oswald. When denied access, he left his name and number. Mrs. Hurt said her husband told her he never had any earlier contact with Oswald and had been too embarrassed to admit that he got drunk and placed the call. In view of the fact that Hurt’s military-intelligence background appears innocent of any deep operational connections, the account by John Hurt’s wife makes as much sense as anything else.

Likewise, conspiracy author David Lifton called Hurt circa 1970, and Hurt admitted to him that he was drunk, and had made what was, in effect, a crank phone call. Lifton believed that Hurt sounded credible. Lifton concluded “I had done what I could do, pursuing this lead, and there wasn’t much to it.”

He hardly going to admit his part in the conspiracy. Are you really that naive? Intelligence officer phones the Dallas police station to make a prank call lol

Again you think the phone switch operator lied? So Oswald did not try to make a phone call?

Cheerful Spring

A “call slip” from a telephone operator serving the Dallas Police Department seems to say so. And it does list the phone numbers of two real individuals named “John Hurt” in Raleigh (one of them being John David Hurt).

John Hurt story is not believable. The call slips expose what happened. For what reason would she have his name and number and if he was drunk would she not have said so? And by all accounts, Oswald attempted to dial out it was not an incoming call. Why would John Hurt be pranking Oswald, is he 5 years old?

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

A “call slip” from a telephone operator serving the Dallas Police Department seems to say so. And it does list the phone numbers of two real individuals named “John Hurt” in Raleigh (one of them being John David Hurt).

John Hurt story is not believable. The call slips expose what happened. For what reason would she have his name and number and if he was drunk would she not have said so? And by all accounts, Oswald attempted to dial out it was not an incoming call. Why would John Hurt be pranking Oswald, is he 5 years old?

So you think his wife is lying?

Wheres the evidence that Oswald knew John Hurt and wheres the evidence that Hurt had anything to do with the assassination or the military etc in 1963. Why would Oswald call a "handler" directly from jail?

Im still waiting for the evidence Ive asked for showing Ruby had killed before and was a mob hitman.

And the evidence that the HSCA couldnt find a link to Oswald being in Mexico.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

What difference does that make? The leaflets were printed at a building at 544 Camp ST.

No they werent. They were ordered by Oswald using the name "Osborne" and printed by the Jones Printing company in New Orelans.

Heres the receipt they found in Oswalds house.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth49783/m1/1/med_res/

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Wheres the evidence that Oswald knew John Hurt and wheres the evidence that Hurt had anything to do with the assassination or the military etc in 1963. Why would Oswald call a "handler" directly from jail?

Why would Oswald be dialling his number if he did not know him? He was under arrest he was in a bind had nowhere to turn he was alone. Would you not ring someone you thought could help you?

Why would an intelligence officer be phoning up the Dallas police station to prank Oswald? That doesn't make any sense. The evidence does not support his version of what happened.

Mrs. Treon said agents told her colleague Mrs. Swinney to not allow the call to go through. They did not want the call to go through, for obvious reasons

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

So you think his wife ia lying?

Wheres the evidence that Oswald knew John Hurt and wheres the evidence that Hurt had anything to do with the assassination or the military etc in 1963. Why would Oswald call a "handler" directly from jail?

Im still waiting for the evidence Ive asked for showing Ruby had killed before and was a mob hitman.

And the evidence that the HSCA couldnt find a link to Oswald being in Mexico.

Yep she lying or her husband told her a pack of lies. Intelligence officers lie for a living, it part of the job.

Cheerful Spring

And the evidence that the HSCA couldnt find a link to Oswald being in Mexico.

I did already.

Oswald was Ruby first killing, you believe that?

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The organisers of this coup. Hoover was likely involved, and politicians who wanted rid of Kennedy. Something this big you need the FBI to cover the investigation later.

Those are just guesses and speculation.

Again, you believe a theory with little or no evidence
Yet you require absurd level of detail and evidence to believe another theory

Double standards

Dohnjoe

weisses wrote: »

Do you believe Jenkins ?

No attempt to counter the logic
No attempt to read the thread where I addressed this question

All of which reinforces my points about debating with conspiracy theorists