JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You claiming the picture I posted is not of the grassy knoll? What side would the bullet have travelled fired from a gun, please tell me left or right of Hudson body?

If youre placing a shooter at the corner of the fence his left shoulder. 10 feet away. From a high powered rifle. And he didnt notice.

"Nowhere near".



I wont even get into the fact that there clearly is no shooter behind the fence.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

If youre placing a shooter at the corner of the fence his left shoulder. 10 feet away. From a high powered rifle. And he didnt notice.

He did say the shot sounded like it came from the left side from where he stood. That the direction the bullet would have travelled along from the picket fence to Kennedy's head in the motorcade. The noise would be heard above and to the left side of Hudson.

King Mob

The Nal wrote: »

If youre placing a shooter at the corner of the fence his left shoulder. 10 feet away. From a high powered rifle. And he didnt notice.

Remember also that conspiracy theorists claim that people further away than that heard "shots" from that direction and use that as inerrant proof.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

He did say the shot sounded like it came from the left side from where he stood. That the direction the bullet would have travelled along from the picket fence to Kennedy's head in the motorcade. The noise would be heard above and to the left side of Hudson.

More lies. This thread is now just pages of your lies, factoids and misinformation being corrected.

He said it came from above and behind the motorcade. Which was to his far left.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you are quite sure in your own mind that the shots came from the rear of the President's car and above it; is that correct?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

More lies. This thread is now just pages of your lies, factoids and misinformation being corrected.

He said it came from above and behind the motorcade. Which was to his far left.

Mr. LIEBELER - But you are quite sure in your own mind that the shots came from the rear of the President's car and above it; is that correct?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Leading questions more like
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any idea that they might have come from the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. HUDSON - Well, it sounded like it was high, you know, from above and kind of behind like - in other words, to the left.
Mr. LIEBELER - And that would have fit in with the Texas School Book Depository, wouldn't it?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Above, behind, and to the left? That where the shooter would be in relation to where Hudson was standing on steps that day.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yes some hunting a long time ago. That old man was nowhere near the picket fence. Its nonsense to say he was when there photo evidence of this.

If you had been hunting then you would know that the report from a rifle is very loud and very distinctive!

There is no way someone couldnfire a rifle 20/50/100 metres from you and you wouldn't hear it!

The Nal

Marilyn Sitzman.

"And as far as the sound of the shots go, the first one, as I said, sounded like a firecracker, and the second one that I heard sounded the same, because I recall no difference whatsoever in them. And I'm sure that if the second shot would have come from a different place -- and the supposed theory is they would have been much closer to me and on the right side -- I would have heard the sounding of the gun much closer, and I probably had a ringing in my head because the fence was quite close to where we were standing, very close. Ah, it just sounded the same way."

Cheerful Spring

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you had been hunting then you would know that the report from a rifle is very loud and very distinctive!

There is no way someone couldnfire a rifle 20/50/100 metres from you and you wouldn't hear it!

55 people heard the shots and they came from the grassy knoll. That conclusive for me. Some shots from behind also in another building.

Cheerful Spring

Of course, you guys ignored the information I posted earlier. I think it worth posting for the neutrals to read.

The "evidence used to rule out a second assassin is fundamentally flawed," concludes a new article in the Annals of Applied Statistics written by former FBI lab metallurgist William A. Tobin and Texas A&M University researchers Cliff Spiegelman and William D. James.

Tobin was the FBI lab's chief metallurgy expert for more than two decades. He analyzed metal evidence in major cases that included the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing and the 1996 explosion of TWA Flight 800 off Long Island.
After retiring, he attracted national attention by questioning the FBI science used in prosecutions for decades to match bullets to crime suspects through their lead content.

Important part
Using new guidelines set forth by the National Academy of Sciences for proper bullet analysis, Tobin and his colleagues at Texas A&M re-analyzed the bullet evidence provided to the 1976 House Select Committee on Assassinations to support the conclusion that only one shooter, Oswald, fired the shots that killed Kennedy.


National Academy of Sciences for proper bullet analysis, Tobin and his colleagues at Texas A&M re-analyzed the bullet evidence provided to the 1976 House Select Committee on Assassinations to support the conclusion that only one shooter, Oswald, fired the shots that killed Kennedy.

Tobin, Spiegelman and James said they bought the same brand and lot of bullets used by Oswald and analyzed their lead using the new standards. The bullets from that batch are still on the market as collectors' items.

They found that the scientific and statistical assumptions Guinn used -- and the government accepted at the time -- to conclude that the fragments came from just two bullets fired from Oswald's gun were wrong.

"This finding means that the bullet fragments from the assassination that match could have come from three or more separate bullets," the researchers said. "If the assassination fragments are derived from three or more separate bullets, then a second assassin is likely," the researchers said. If the five fragments came from three or more bullets, that would mean a second gunman's bullet would have had to strike the president, the researchers explained

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

55 people heard the shots and they came from the grassy knoll. That conclusive for me.

Just a shame that it isnt true.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Just a shame that it isnt true.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/shots.htm

Now you dismissing officially recorded stuff. It was reported in 1963 and 1964 how many eyewitnesses there was.

I guess you dismiss Orville Nix evidence he did know of anyone who said the shots came from the TSBD.

The Nal

Howard Brennan saw a shooter in the TSBD

"Well, as the parade came by … I heard this crack that I positively thought was a backfire. … And I glanced up. And this man that I saw previous was aiming for his last shot. … Well, as it appeared to me he was standing up and resting against the left window sill, with gun shouldered to his right shoulder, holding the gun with his left hand and taking positive aim and fired his last shot. As I calculate a couple of seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to his side and maybe paused for another second as though to assure hisself that he hit his mark, and then he disappeared"

The Nal

Amos Euins

"I watched the car on down the street and about the time this car got near the black and white sign I heard a shot. I started looking around and then I looked up in the red brick building. I saw a man in a window with a gun and I saw him shoot twice. He then stepped back behind some boxes. I could tell the gun was a rifle and it sounded like an automatic rifle the way he was shooting. I just saw a little bit of the barrel, and some of the trigger housing. This was a white man, he did not have on a hat. I just saw this man for a few seconds."

Cheerful Spring

That FBI report is bull****. Frazier sister describes the package as approximately 2 feet and a half approximately ( could be shorter) about 30 inches- about 10 inches too short for a rifle.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Howard Brennan saw a shooter in the TSBD

"Well, as the parade came by … I heard this crack that I positively thought was a backfire. … And I glanced up. And this man that I saw previous was aiming for his last shot. … Well, as it appeared to me he was standing up and resting against the left window sill, with gun shouldered to his right shoulder, holding the gun with his left hand and taking positive aim and fired his last shot. As I calculate a couple of seconds. He drew the gun back from the window as though he was drawing it back to his side and maybe paused for another second as though to assure hisself that he hit his mark, and then he disappeared"

This details that many problems with Howard Brennan testimony. I even saw a photo were he looking forward and not up during the time of the shots.
https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/PG/PGchp7.html

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

This details that many problems with Howard Brennan testimony. I even saw a photo were he looking forward and not up during the time of the shots.
https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/PG/PGchp7.html

Where is the photo?

The knoll witnesses and the TSBD witnesses isn't as simple as you make it out to be. All witness testimony needs to be read and evalauted. Thats about 100 people. I know you haven't done so and won't as it wouldn't tie in with your confirmation bias but if you did you would realise that dozens and dozens "thought shots may have" come from that direction or "If I had to guess Id say" or "I think maybe from that direction" etc. Others seemed more sure, lots weren't sure, some were sure that it was the TSBD, some assumed it was the knoll because thats where the police man went to etc. Others seemed sure it was the knoll and so on.

The fact remains that theres no one behind the fence. Not in the Moorman photo, the Bell movie, the Nix movie or the Hughes movie. In the Muchmore and Nix movies you can see how close Hudson was to the fence.

The closest witnesses to the knoll - Sitzman, Zapruder and Hudson - didn't see or hear anything, were too close to have been effected by echoes and didn't say any shots came from there. Sitzman said that the shots sounded the same, so likely coming from the same place. Which wasn't behind the knoll. She flat out denied that. She said it wasn't anywhere near loud enough.

So we have no eye witnesses seeing a shooter there, acoustic evidence showing its impossible for a knoll shooter, photos and videos showing that theres no one behind the fence, no exit wound to JFKs left and an undamaged left side of the brain, no other bullets or fragments of any other weapon other than the Carcano and yet people still believe there was a shooter on the knoll.

King Mob wrote: »

Remember also that conspiracy theorists claim that people further away than that heard "shots" from that direction and use that as inerrant proof.

Yup.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

55 people heard the shots and they came from the grassy knoll. That conclusive for me.

:rolleyes:

PS it wasn't 55 but don't let another lie stop you.

The Nal

Some essential viewing. The first and last are probably the two best documentaries on the topic.

Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald

Lee Harvey Oswald An American Tregedy

JFK The Lost Bullet

Cold Case

Beyond Conspiracy

DEFTLEFTHAND

Jackie Kennedy and even RFK were said to have been suspicious of LBJ.

Could you imagine if there is any truth to rumours. It feels horrible to even contemplate it.

Whiplash85

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Jackie Kennedy and even RFK were said to have been suspicious of LBJ.

Could you imagine if there is any truth to rumours. It feels horrible to even contemplate it.

One of most interesting photos of Dealey Plaza was the Altgens photo. It showed numerous witnesses including door of depository. it has been analysed for years. More pertinently though its what we dont see in the photo. We see the car behind Kennedy in which Ladybird Johnson is waving to the crowd but there is no LBJ to be seen. Why you may ask... Well he is ducking down before the shots hit.
Interestingly as well that there was a 14 point match to Malcom Wallaces fingerprint on the card board boxes of the snipers nest. FBI use a rule of thumb (pardon the pun) of 8 point matches. He was a known associate of LBJ and had worked together previously. LBJ was a scumbag and had motive. He was involved in many scandals and controversies that all went away conveniently when he was made president. He set up the Warren Commission which was essentially driven by a close friend of his Alan Dulles who incidentally was fired by JFK previously. He was the only one on the commission that did not have a day job so it was his baby for want of a better description.

The Nal

Whiplash85 wrote: »

One of most interesting photos of Dealey Plaza was the Altgens photo. It showed numerous witnesses including door of depository. it has been analysed for years. More pertinently though its what we dont see in the photo. We see the car behind Kennedy in which Ladybird Johnson is waving to the crowd but there is no LBJ to be seen. Why you may ask... Well he is ducking down before the shots hit.

Hes not ducking. The Altgens photo is at Zapruder frame 253.

Not ducking.

LBJ's left ear and hairline is visible just to the left of the secret service guys face.



Here he is in the Willis 2 photo coming off Main onto Houston. Hardly a man immediately expecting gunfire. Which would have been coming in his direction if the shooter started shooting at the motorcade down Houston St.

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Interestingly as well that there was a 14 point match to Malcom Wallaces fingerprint on the card board boxes of the snipers nest. FBI use a rule of thumb (pardon the pun) of 8 point matches. He was a known associate of LBJ and had worked together previously.

Not true unfortunately

http://jfkfacts.org/new-look-lbj-joan-mellen-debunks-mac-wallace-myth/

Whiplash85 wrote: »

LBJ was a scumbag and had motive. He was involved in many scandals and controversies that all went away conveniently when he was made president. He set up the Warren Commission which was essentially driven by a close friend of his Alan Dulles who incidentally was fired by JFK previously. He was the only one on the commission that did not have a day job so it was his baby for want of a better description.

LBJ and the Kennedys hated each other. LBJ was only chosen as a running mate to help with the southern vote and to handle southern Democrats. He was sent on embarrassing foreign trips where he had to wear silly hats and stuff. He hated Bobby more than anyone. He hated JFK. Politicians often hate each other. Thats not proof of anything.

Johnson was one of the greatest politicians of the 20th century. He believed it was a foreign conspiracy until the day he died. If he was in on it, he wouldn't have been doubting the conclusions of the Warren Commission. Hes recorded on TV and on the telephone doing so. Aside from the fact that there isn't a shred of evidence linking him to any plot. As if he would put his wife in the crossfire.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Where is the photo?

The knoll witnesses and the TSBD witnesses isn't as simple as you make it out to be. All witness testimony needs to be read and evalauted. Thats about 100 people. I know you haven't done so and won't as it wouldn't tie in with your confirmation bias but if you did you would realise that dozens and dozens "thought shots may have" come from that direction or "If I had to guess Id say" or "I think maybe from that direction" etc. Others seemed more sure, lots weren't sure, some were sure that it was the TSBD, some assumed it was the knoll because thats where the police man went to etc. Others seemed sure it was the knoll and so on.

The fact remains that theres no one behind the fence. Not in the Moorman photo, the Bell movie, the Nix movie or the Hughes movie. In the Muchmore and Nix movies you can see how close Hudson was to the fence.

The closest witnesses to the knoll - Sitzman, Zapruder and Hudson - didn't see or hear anything, were too close to have been effected by echoes and didn't say any shots came from there. Sitzman said that the shots sounded the same, so likely coming from the same place. Which wasn't behind the knoll. She flat out denied that. She said it wasn't anywhere near loud enough.

So we have no eye witnesses seeing a shooter there, acoustic evidence showing its impossible for a knoll shooter, photos and videos showing that theres no one behind the fence, no exit wound to JFKs left and an undamaged left side of the brain, no other bullets or fragments of any other weapon other than the Carcano and yet people still believe there was a shooter on the knoll.



Yup.



:rolleyes:

PS it wasn't 55 but don't let another lie stop you.

You find one of the photographs on this website. I saw another one years ago, I can't locate it now.
https://www.wnd.com/2013/09/key-jfk-witness-was-looking-wrong-direction/

Nal 90 Eyewitnesses were asked and 54 said Grassy Knoll and 36 said TSBD- I was off by one person. Even a website you linked to in this thread had these numbers listed, remember or just going to ignore it?

When JFK body was transported from Parkland Hospital to Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, it was intercepted and operated on.

This graph lists the problems.


You have ignored the testimony by John Stringer the only person certified and allowed to take Pictures of Kennedy during the Autopsy. He was shown images from the JFK collection/archive. He stated they are not the photographs he took and listed the reasons why. You don't address these discrepancies and think all normal this. Even one of the doctors who did the autopsy said his notes disappeared.

Cheerful Spring

Whiplash85 wrote: »

One of most interesting photos of Dealey Plaza was the Altgens photo. It showed numerous witnesses including door of depository. it has been analysed for years. More pertinently though its what we dont see in the photo. We see the car behind Kennedy in which Ladybird Johnson is waving to the crowd but there is no LBJ to be seen. Why you may ask... Well he is ducking down before the shots hit.
Interestingly as well that there was a 14 point match to Malcom Wallaces fingerprint on the card board boxes of the snipers nest. FBI use a rule of thumb (pardon the pun) of 8 point matches. He was a known associate of LBJ and had worked together previously. LBJ was a scumbag and had motive. He was involved in many scandals and controversies that all went away conveniently when he was made president. He set up the Warren Commission which was essentially driven by a close friend of his Alan Dulles who incidentally was fired by JFK previously. He was the only one on the commission that did not have a day job so it was his baby for want of a better description.

In 1998, A. Nathan Darby executed an affidavit in which he confirmed a match between a latent fingerprint found on one of the cardboard boxes that comprised the TSBD "sniper's nest" and the inked print of Malcolm Wallace

He did blind by the way and did not even know who Malcolm Wallace was.

It was the FBI who came out and disputed and claimed it was an error. The FBI has reasons to cover up as their former boss was likely involved in the plot.

Cheerful Spring

Nathan Darby, has found a 34 point match of the fingerprint lifted off a TSBD sniper book box with a print in Wallace’s criminal file. Oddly enough, the FBI denied that it was a match 18 months after they received it. Note also, the fingerprint evidence lay dormant in the National Archives for 35 years after the assassination (1998)

https://newsblaze.com/usnews/politics/censored-special-guilty-men-points-finger-at-lbj-in-jfks-death_14431/

Cheerful Spring

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Jackie Kennedy and even RFK were said to have been suspicious of LBJ.

Could you imagine if there is any truth to rumours. It feels horrible to even contemplate it.

This conversation reveals the bitterness back then

JFK brother talks about LBJ and then the second conversation i think is about Hoover and LBJ spreading lies about Kennedy brother trying to organise a coup against the government.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You find one of the photographs on this website. I saw another one years ago, I can't locate it now.
https://www.wnd.com/2013/09/key-jfk-witness-was-looking-wrong-direction/

All I see there is a photo of him around the time of the first shot. Zapruder frame 188. He said he looked up to see the last shot. And he saw Oswald well before the shooting started. There is no photo of him at the time of the headshot. So you've just proven he was credible. Well done.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Nal 90 Eyewitnesses were asked and 54 said Grassy Knoll and 36 said TSBD- I was off by one person. Even a website you linked to in this thread had these numbers listed, remember or just going to ignore it?

Numbers are not proof. I've already asked you to go of and read each witness statement. I have. Only then can you have a valid opinion. The numbers vary quite a bit depending on semantics. But as you haven't bother reading them you wouldn't know.

A lot of people "thought" shots may have come from the knoll or the TSBD. I don't place any value on people standing further away = more echoes. I do however place value on the people who were closest to the knoll - mere few feet from the knoll - and who heard nothing and saw no one there.

No one can explain this to me. How did they not hear it? They were standing in the quietest part of Dealey Plaza at the time where the crowd had completely thinned out at the very end of the motorcade. High powered rifle goes off right beside/behind them and they don't hear it.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You have ignored the testimony by John Stringer the only person certified and allowed to take Pictures of Kennedy during the Autopsy. He was shown images from the JFK collection/archive. He stated they are not the photographs he took and listed the reasons why. You don't address these discrepancies and think all normal this. Even one of the doctors who did the autopsy said his notes disappeared.

And Dr Boswell examined the brain "in detail" at the Nov. 22 autopsy and once more "a few days later" after it had been "put in form and fixation."

"It was the same brain". "We decided it was destroyed enough that we didn't need to take sections." Asked about Stringer's recollection of photographing sections, Boswell said, "He's full of ****".

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Even one of the doctors who did the autopsy said his notes disappeared.

I presume you mean Dr Humes who destroyed his early blood covered drafts after speaking to Dr Malcolm Perry who told him that in Dallas they opened JFKs windpipe up? Making the early drafts redundant.

By the way you have ignored dozens of pieces of evidence and facts I've posted in just the last few pages. And as always, you ignore direct questions.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Nathan Darby, has found a 34 point match of the fingerprint lifted off a TSBD sniper book box with a print in Wallace’s criminal file. Oddly enough, the FBI denied that it was a match 18 months after they received it. Note also, the fingerprint evidence lay dormant in the National Archives for 35 years after the assassination (1998)

https://newsblaze.com/usnews/politics/censored-special-guilty-men-points-finger-at-lbj-in-jfks-death_14431/

This has been proven as false. 100% false.

Also add this to the list of great documentaries for those interested.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

Numbers are not proof. I've already asked you to go of and read each witness statement. I have. Only then can you have a valid opinion. The numbers vary quite a bit depending on semantics. But as you haven't bother reading them you wouldn't know.



And Dr Boswell examined the brain "in detail" at the Nov. 22 autopsy and once more "a few days later" after it had been "put in form and fixation."

"It was the same brain". "We decided it was destroyed enough that we didn't need to take sections." Asked about Stringer's recollection of photographing sections, Boswell said, "He's full of ****".



I presume you mean Dr Humes who destroyed his early blood covered drafts after speaking to Dr Malcolm Perry who told him that in Dallas they opened JFKs windpipe up? Making the early drafts redundant.

By the way you have ignored dozens of pieces of evidence and facts I've posted in just the last few pages. And as always, you ignore direct questions.

Also add this to the list of great documentaries for those interested.

Saundra K Spencer processed the autopsy photos and she worked at the Naval centre and she also claimed the images were not the ones she processed. She confirming Stringer testimony.

More eyewitnesses on video (below) who were there disputing the official story. That's a conspiracy you can't deny if you are claiming they are all lying? How many are involved in this conspiracy to dispute the official story, have you a number?

No Dr Finck. He said his notes disappeared.

Humes did not tell anyone he destroyed his autopsy notes till 1996, you are wrong.

Cheerful Spring

The Nal wrote: »

This has been proven as false. 100% false.

Proven to be false how. How you can be in error if the fingerprint matched? Why was it false explain?

Cheerful Spring

Nathan Darby evidence.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Saundra K Spencer processed the autopsy photos and she worked at the Naval centre and she also claimed the images were not the ones she processed. She confirming Stringer testimony.

More eyewitnesses on video (below) who were there disputing the official story. That's a conspiracy you can't deny if you are claiming they are all lying? How many are involved in this conspiracy to dispute the official story, have you a number?

Theres a difference between lying and being mistaken. Boswell, Humes and Finck disagreed on a lot of things. They did the autopsy in an hour. Dallas police already had Oswald and Jackie was in the room next to them so they rushed the autopsy. They botched it really.

Fincks conclusions though? "the bullet entered in the back of the head and went out on the right side of his skull" and JFK was shot "from above and behind".

Read about it properly, its not something you can prove or disprove with a 5 minute youtube video full of quote mines.

What is it with conspiracy theorists and shoddy research based on quote mining?

Wheres the picture of Howard Brennan looking away from the TSBD at the headshot by the way?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Humes did not tell anyone he destroyed his autopsy notes till 1996, you are wrong.

So he did say he destroyed them then? As I said. So Im right. Thanks.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Proven to be false how. How you can be in error if the fingerprint matched? Why was it false explain?

Too much to mention.

1. These articles for starters.

http://www.clpex.com/images/Darby-Wallace-Analysis/Erroneous-Match.htm

http://joanmellen.com/wordpress/2014/04/30/lecture-two-lyndon-johnson-and-mac-wallace-sunday-april-2/

2. In November 1963 Mac Wallace worked for Ling Aerospace in California, living with his son and was a drunk.

3. LBJ would hardly hire a known killer with connections to do it, obviously implicating himself. Silly theory.

4. The prints don't match.

Tipsy McSwagger

Whiplash85 wrote: »

One of most interesting photos of Dealey Plaza was the Altgens photo. It showed numerous witnesses including door of depository. it has been analysed for years. More pertinently though its what we dont see in the photo. We see the car behind Kennedy in which Ladybird Johnson is waving to the crowd but there is no LBJ to be seen. Why you may ask... Well he is ducking down before the shots hit.
Interestingly as well that there was a 14 point match to Malcom Wallaces fingerprint on the card board boxes of the snipers nest. FBI use a rule of thumb (pardon the pun) of 8 point matches. He was a known associate of LBJ and had worked together previously. LBJ was a scumbag and had motive. He was involved in many scandals and controversies that all went away conveniently when he was made president. He set up the Warren Commission which was essentially driven by a close friend of his Alan Dulles who incidentally was fired by JFK previously. He was the only one on the commission that did not have a day job so it was his baby for want of a better description.

who signed the 1964 Civil Rights Act.