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JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Instead of falling forward, he is pushed slightly to the left, towards his wife Jackie. 

    Nal continues to disregard the noticeable blood splatter on the Zapruder film, specifically situated on the right side of his head. This glaring evidence undermines Nal's claim that the fatal bullet striking President John F. Kennedy originated from the Carcano rifle.

    When you believe in magic bullet, you tend to accept any narrative presented about the event, regardless of its accuracy or plausibility. The belief in magic bullet suggests that a single shot or object can cause multiple wounds in two separate individuals. 

    chain of Custody for this Magic Bullet is irrelevant for Debunkers



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Who does? Paul Gregory who wrote this piece? George de Mohrenschildt, a wealthy oil magnate with familiy ties to the Soviet Union, had family members killed by communists.Despite Oswald's ideological alignment with communism, he formed friendships with individuals who had direct connections to both rich oil people and the CIA. Nal can't see the problems in that narrative a white Russian befriending a devouted alleged communist who allegedly can not even afford rent at times.

    Nal doesn't even question how Oswald learned Russian, of course, doesn't see the intelligence ties at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    He learned Russian by reading Russian language books, taking a Russian language exam in the marines and from living in Russia for 2 years.

    Same way everyone learns a new language.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    He took Russian because he was trained as a spy, thats the narrative you have your own head. However, it is important to note that there is evidence to support this claim. For instance, he was based in Japan CIA U-2 spy base, which suggests that he had a specific purpose and role there.

    The U-2 spy plane was used extensively during the Cold War to gather intelligence on the Soviet Union. The U-2 base in Japan served as a crucial hub for monitoring flights along the Soviet coast. By being based at this location, he had access to strategic information that would enable him to gather intelligence on Russian military activities and other sensitive matters..

    George was approached by operatives working on behalf of the Central Intelligence Agency, who convinced him to embrace Oswald as a friend.

    Oswald, who came from a relatively impoverished background, was friends with George de Mohrenschildt, a tycoon who had extensive intelligence connections. This friendship, on its face, seems unusual and raises questions. Why would a rich and powerful individual befriend someone with little financial resources and limited social standing? The debunkers dont bother with the odd stuff.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,473 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    unfortunately what is in the public domain now as relates to the Kennedy assassination is probably as much as will ever be known.

    It’s never going to be solved… beyond what little we know and understand.

    Oswald killed JD Tippet…. If I remember more than half a dozen witnesses saw him do it…so, it’s not like Oswald wasn’t capable of murder, not like Oswald was unfamiliar with weapons, he was proficient… and capable of murder….he was a murderer.

    Anyway, nobody will leap out of the woodwork with some magic evidence or tale to tell that will show more light on it.

    what would happen though if a retired about to die Russian military person came forward and admitted it was Russia, and it was ordered by xyx and it could be corroborated to an extent…

    can the US sit still, knowing the Russians killed it’s president ? Maybe they know or suspect the Russians did do it but WWIII, was the appetite there, so quickly after WWII ? It’s weird how so little is known publicly at least about one of the milestone shocking moments in the 20th century that occurred in full public view of so many people…



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    None of that is evidence.

    Again, you illustrate how you know nothing, have no deep knowledge of the subject and have no interest in learning about it. Youve clearly never even read a book on the topic.

    But since you asked, de Mohrenschildt was introduced to Oswald by a man named George Bouhe. Bouhe was a Russian immigrant who lived in Dallas since the 30s and had a sort of unofficial role in helping Russian immigrants settle in the Dallas Fort Worth area. Marina Oswald was a Russian immigrant.

    This has been covered at great length by all investigations which you can read for yourself. But you wont as your attention spam is clearly a mess.

    But I would recommend reading Marina & Lee by Patricia McMillan before embarrasing yourself again.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    The narrative presented raises several questions and makes little sense. Why would George feel compelled to assist a communist?

    white Russian" refers to individuals or factions who remained loyal to the deposed Tsarist government during the Russian Revolution.Given George's background, it is not inconceivable that he may have attempted to mislead the Warren Commission by withholding crucial information or presenting conflicting accounts. You read it in a book, so it must be true. This statement suggests that if something is mentioned in the pages of a book, it automatically becomes factual and reliable. 

    George Bouche's introduction of two individuals holds little relevance when it comes to understanding George's background. It is already established that George is anti-communist, and this stance is evident in his biographical information. It is intriguing, however, that an American communist would intrigue George. 

    In October 1962, Oswald informed de Mohrenschildt that he had lost his job in nearby Fort Worth. In response, de Mohrenschildt advised Oswald that he would have a better chance of finding work in Dallas. Oswald was soon hired by the Dallas photographic firm of Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall.

    Oswald the communist somehow was allowed to work in a company that had defense contracts, and nothing seemed odd there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    This is the weakest assocation Ive ever seen posted. Oswald was fired after 6 months.

    And you're disagreeing with a book that you've never even read. lol.



  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭Billy_the_Kid
    Master


    Can anyone recommend some good books on the Kennedy assassination?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Good photo here




  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭Billy_the_Kid
    Master



    Wow fantastic - thanks very much for all those recommendations. Ill be keeping the local library busy



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,643 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I used to read a lot on the assassination going back about 20yrs.

    I always was a believer in a conspiracy and more than one shooter.

    Then I remember I bought Case Closed as I wanted to read an alternative view, and that also made a compelling argument for a lone shooter. So didn't know what to believe after that.

    Only this week I caught a doc I have never watched before where they assembled all the Parkland doctors who treated Kennedy on that day, and to a man they all believe he was shot from the front.

    I guess we will never know the truth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,033 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    We probably do know the truth, most if not all the facts are staring us in the face. It's just that there will always be people who don't want to accept that because:

    a) It's a complex case (unlike the movies where things are often black/white)

    b) The nature of his death can make it difficult for many people to accept, which is why there are conspiracies (despite there still being no credible alternative to this day)

    c) Conspiracies exciting



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Yeah I watched it. I dont believe they're lying. They saw what they saw while trying to save his life. But it wasnt an autopsy. They were only with him for about 20 minutes remember. Arrived at 12.36pm and pronounced dead at 1pm. No way near enough time to make an authoritative conclusion.

    So much of the investigation was a shambles. The doctors at Bethesda doing the autopsy for example assumed the hole in the throat was only from the tracheostomy. They had no idea initially it was a bullet because they never spoke to the Parkland doctors.

    But, there was no shot from the front is because there was no one there to do the shooting. No one on the knoll, no one behind the fence. As per the Moorman picture above, numerous other pictures and the Zapruder film, Nix film and Muchmore films of the day and eye witnesses who were standing beside and in front of the fence who heard and saw nothing.

    How anyone can say this is a shot from the front and the wound was at the back of the head is beyond me.




  • Registered Users Posts: 205 ✭✭Billy_the_Kid
    Master


    I came across a few podcasts on spotify about JFK with film director Rob Reiner. He seems to have a keen personal interest and certainly appears very knowledgeable about the assassination.



  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Westernview


    "If the doctors at Bethesda didn't know Yeah I watched it. I dont believe they're lying. They saw what they saw while trying to save his life. But it wasnt an autopsy. They were only with him for about 20 minutes remember. Arrived at 12.36pm and pronounced dead at 1pm. No way near enough time to make an authoritative conclusion."

    There were a number of respected doctors at Parkland such as Doctor Robert McClelland that said the head wound was further forward that what the autopsy in Bethesda presented. 25 minutes was more than enough time for experienced physicians to look at a wound and know where it was positioned on the skull.

    "So much of the investigation was a shambles. The doctors at Bethesda doing the autopsy for example assumed the hole in the throat was only from the tracheostomy. They had no idea initially it was a bullet because they never spoke to the Parkland doctors."

    Bethesda has plenty of time to contact Parkland and ask that question. If they didn't take the opportunity to do that then their findings on such an important autopsy have to be questioned. To make an assumption like that without investigating it seems like gross negligence at best and a cover up at worst.

    "But, there was no shot from the front is because there was no one there to do the shooting. No one on the knoll, no one behind the fence. As per the Moorman picture above, numerous other pictures and the Zapruder film, Nix film and Muchmore films of the day and eye witnesses who were standing beside and in front of the fence who heard and saw nothing."

    That's incorrect. Bill Newman and his family were the closest members of the public to Kennedy when he received the fatal head shot. (only 10 feet away). Bill said the shots appeared to come from behind him. The railroad workers positioned at a favourable vantage point and said they saw a puff of smoke lingering in the air outside the fence after the last shot. The Newman's were never called to testify to the Warren commision. Does that not concern you or at least make you question your theory?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal



    Bill Newmans quote has been taken out of context and ran with. Textbook conspiracy theory quote mining.

    Heres a good interview with them from 2016.


    Also Newman may have been closest to JFK but there were people much closer to the knoll who heard and saw nothing.


    Railroad workers? You mean Lee Bowers? Bit of a vague description from him. He didnt see any shooters either btw.



  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Newman said when interviewed on the same day of the assassination that the shots came from behind him - the mound/garden he called it. He said at the time he couldnt see where exactly the shot came from as they were looking at the president. He also said in the more recent video link you sent that kennedys ear was blown off and he was surprised to see it appearing in autopsy photos. So even if he is saying now that he doesn't know where shots came from his original testimony should have been sought and included in the WC report. You don't seem bothered at all that they werent called as the closest public witnesses which amazes me to be honest.

    The railway workers were on the triple overpass interviewed by Mark Lane. Worth a watch. They all seem credible blue collar workers. They are all consistent about the grassy knoll/fence area and the smoke appearing about 20-30 feet from them. Note at 5:50 in the video where Sam Holland said the Warren Commission incorrectly used his testimony.

    I'm not saying you're wrong about no gunman seen but similarly I believe there is enough information not to rule it out as you are. We may never know either way.

    For those of us who weren't at Dealy Plaza we can only base our opinon on information. The main government investigation and autopsy were clearly flawed to put it kindly, so it is difficult to construct a definite opinion.

    Post edited by Westernview on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Newman also said JFK stood up after he was shot. He wasnt called because he was on TV talking about it and signed an affidavit on the same day. But yeah should've been called of course.



  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Vm .tiktok.com/ZGedaYmcm/  

    167 trillion to one is the odds that:- out of a pool of 1400 JFK witnesses (or central characters) 15 had very suspicious deaths in Tranche 1 and another 55 in Tranche 2 (total 70 suspicious deaths)! Book referenced in the TikTok.

    Tranche 1: 1963-1964

    Tranche 2: 1965-1977 (but mostly circa 1977)

    They are all as suspicious, or as plain as day as each other but just to pick one: the assassination, disguised as a meaningless random killing, of Mary Meyer (on right of Kennedy in photo). A mistress of JFK (a stunner of course), she began to get progressively more vocal in her circles that he was killed by the deep state (via the CIA) in the months after Nov 63.

    She was killed in October 1964 out on her routine daily walk by a canal in a salubrious area of Washington DC (shot in back of head but still alive, then finished of by more shots while on the ground) so clearly done by a professional hitman.  Unknown individuals / police then arranged a feeble- minded man who was in the area, Raymond Crump as the patsy, but he was later acquitted. Local media kept all JFK references out of the court case, let alone national media.

    Another good one is the railway bridge witness (had a view of the grassy knoll).

    Also, a piece of Kennedys skull flew onto the car boot surface, which Jackie instinctively leapt to retrieve, this would be impossible if that shot came from the rear & above (6th floor). Fragments, especially large ones, don’t eject back in the direction a bullet comes from. Similarly, one of the motor-cyclist police at the rear of the car was spattered with blood.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,033 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    When someone is murdered or assassinated, we look at the supporting evidence, in a structural way.

    However with the JFK assassination, and it's pretty evident here, there's often a very different approach at play. Conspiracy innuendo by attacking/discrediting the facts and attempting to find as many unexplained "issues", "anomalies", "discrepancies" as possible.

    It's red flag stuff and a classic technique used by grifters, charlatans, quacks, conspiracy believers (like Alex Jones) and so on.

    Putting that technique aside. If we class LHO as suspect X. Then who is suspect Y? (whether it's a group or individual)

    What supporting, credible evidence is there that suspect Y killed JFK? how and what is the timeline for that? Those should be the very first questions here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Almost all of those people died after they had already spoken to the police, signed affidavits and/or testified before the Warren Commission.


    Fragments, especially large ones, don’t eject back in the direction a bullet comes from.

    Yes they do. Splatter went in all directions and the cop behind him rode into the spray of blood and brain.





  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    In most murders, that approach is rational & reasonable. In a situation where elements of the government or those in power committed the assassination then they are going to cover it up, and shut witnesses up by, for example murdering 70 of them to encourage those remaining witnesses to suddenly not remember stuff. It is an effective technique. In other words, we are looking at only a narrow, highly curated selection of *facts*

    If none of those witnesses had ‘died’ and we had all their statements & interview recordings (given under no fear) plus all the statements from other witnesses who would then have no reason to be intimidated, then that would be the actual full evidence dataset.

    When you say a different approach is at play here - what this framing really means is you are excluding even the theoretical possibility that state actors could have done it. In other words, if powerful state actors did this- asking for this to be a routine murder investigation means having an expectation that those who killed JFK will take a hands off approach, be sanguinely disinterested, sit back and see if their underlings 3-5 levels below in the power hierarchy can prove they did it by intrepid detective work. Do lone gunman people really think that is rational or is how power hierarchies work?

    My username is one name for suspect Y (and just a guess anyway) – but things would really go back to someone like Allen Dulles. There is little online about Sarti for the same reasons as above. 



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,033 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Okay but this is unfortunately, another red flag defense.

    "We can never know because the government/deep state/CIA is all powerful and pulls off these inside jobs perfectly"

    Except that it doesn't, in reality the government/state is often a leaky ship at the best of times. Conspiracies exposed in the media regularly, whistle-blowers, leaks, exposure from the opposition, deathbed confessions, investigative journalists, etc.

    Moving on, if there's an alternative suspect, don't hesitate to share the supporting evidence/timeline.



  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    Meyer was this mistress in 1962 & 1963. So she was the mistress of a president at the time of his assassination, who presumably spoke regularly & intimately with him, who is from a very establishment DC family & circle who is blabbing openly around those circles of her suspicions about it being an inside job. Also note, she didn’t give any testimony to the WC, she would be one of the first people to be called to the WC in a genuine investigation. But her professional execution is met with “has nothing to do with the assassination”. This is not even a modestly credible way to deal with these aspects of the case.

    So if I were to place a series of recently deceased cadavers on a chair on a basketball court and fire at them from 90 feet above & behind one by one, accurately with a rifle I could expect in say 50% or more of cases that any large fragments of skull that came loose would fly back towards my direction by 6 feet? I would say in no case would that happen. A watermelon splits in all directions when hit by high velocity. To detach a 2” by 3” piece of human skull by high velocity - nope that is going in the same general direction of the bullet in all cases.



  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Lucien_Sarti


    I just referred to a Lee Camp video & book that refers to 70 witnesses that ‘died’/were murdered and you reply that there’s no evidence of a conspiracy! I don’t think you get the difference between traditional murder cases & those committed by the powerful, even if you say you do.

    Lets say the person(s) who decides to kill Kennedy is ‘Mr Big’. Is he/they really going to allow a Dallas pathologist to do the full autopsy who is not part of the plot (i.e. most officials in Dallas on the day), allow the Dallas police or some other Texas agency to investigate the crime, allow the duped patsy to live, allow an unimpeded patsy 6 month court case where the finger immediately points back to the CIA.

    No, take the body out of Texas and back to DC, i.e. the prepared plan (there were at least 2 patsies in 2 other cities so body to DC was the plan in all cases). Dispense with a standard police investigation & court case, kill the patsy. Instead of Judges who would not have been in on the plan, it is much preferable to set up a council of wise men to collate the investigation, some of who planned the killing (Dulles), look very serious in photographs then make sure that all of the evidence of their plot is kept out of the records & final report.

    Claiming the powerful could not cover it up is just not remotely credible given all of the above bizarre anomalies (plus 70 witness killings).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    On Spotify, I listened to some of it and it has actually been pretty good so far. It appears that the individual in question has made appearances on CNN and MSNBC, as well as other networks recently. Their claims involve new information surrounding the forensics and shooters involved in the John F. Kennedy assassination. According to him and other people appear on this podcast, the shot that struck Kennedy's throat came from the infamous "grassy knoll," while the fatal head shot originated from the underpass area.

    I always believed there was a triangulation of shooters that day. one group located in the underpass, another group in the grassy knoll, and a third group in the rear. 

    I must admit never thought the grassy Knoll shooter bullet hit the throat, initially thought the throat bullet came from around or near the overpass. A different theory I saw him claim on CNN.

    Furthermore, it has been reported that Rob Reiner is planning to reveal the names of four shooters in the last upcoming podcast. Any new names could be interesting.

    https://open.spotify.com/show/6hD4xxJbvSRRyYoG196aSw



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,835 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    The main issue with knoll and underpass shooters is that there was no one there.

    There are photos and videos showing this.



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