changes in tax

happywithlife

we were told by union rep during the week that tge flat rate expenses are among those being cut by revenue in January. Can't find concise links online but apparently its going from €518 to €65 - quite a cut for those who claim it

here's one link that mentions teachers specifically
https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/tax-grab-will-hit-ordinary-families-as-80000-set-to-have-allowances-stripped-37546071.html

tried both union websites but couldn't find up to date references to it - if anyone has a better link please post.

on a side note; my search on the revenue site threw up a clarification from October stating they view exam correctors/supervisors etc as employees rather than self-employed. I know that has caught some people in the past.

TheDriver

I think it relates to all flat rare expenses being reviewed with certain ones being axed soon example shop workers.

evolving_doors

Teaching.

The only job where you steal stuff from home to use in work.

2011abc

Yeah they’re trimming away secretly before giving us €2/3k a year tax breaks , eh ...after re-elected .Leo has pinky promised .In other news a €3k a year green/ carbon tax hike is down the tracks ...

joebloggs32

evolving_doors wrote: »

Teaching.

The only job where you steal stuff from home to use in work.

You will be able to now claim for vouched expenses related to doing your job. I'm fairly sure my next laptop will fit into that category.
I know it will be a pain having to put in the paperwork, but i reckon you could start claiming for quite a bot of "work related" stuff.
If you were teaching PE im sure you could claim for all your pe clothing.

evolving_doors

joebloggs32 wrote: »

You will be able to now claim for vouched expenses related to doing your job. I'm fairly sure my next laptop will fit into that category.
I know it will be a pain having to put in the paperwork, but i reckon you could start claiming for quite a bot of "work related" stuff.
If you were teaching PE im sure you could claim for all your pe clothing.

Hmmmm interesting, where do I read more about this. Is this done with revenue or done through the school?

With the amount of materials teachers buy themselves for work they won't be long reintroducing the flat rate expenses.

joebloggs32

evolving_doors wrote: »

Hmmmm interesting, where do I read more about this. Is this done with revenue or done through the school?

With the amount of materials teachers buy themselves for work they won't be long reintroducing the flat rate expenses.

The flat rate expenses were brought in to save the paperwork in processing claims made by workers for materials such as tools etc being bought by workers who needed them to do their jobs.
From what i have read in the media reports, they want to return to the vouched system. It would be very hard to argue with a teacher that buying a laptop/tablet wouldn't count as tools for your job.

happywithlife

vouching for expenses i don't mind and it should be straight forward for big ticket items like a laptop but will you even have the option if there's still a €65 flat rate expense?

DubCount

Vouched expenses for employment is a difficult area for taxation AFAIK. The expenses must be wholly, exclusively and necessarily for the purpose of the employment. This is quite a high threshold to achieve. If you use a laptop or PE gear for anything other than teaching, its not wholly and exclusively for your employment and is not an allowable expense. If you could teach without the laptop or PE gear, its not necessary for the purpose of your employment. Dont expect vouched expenses to be a simple solution.

evolving_doors

DubCount wrote: »

Vouched expenses for employment is a difficult area for taxation AFAIK. The expenses must be wholly, exclusively and necessarily for the purpose of the employment. This is quite a high threshold to achieve. If you use a laptop or PE gear for anything other than teaching, its not wholly and exclusively for your employment and is not an allowable expense. If you could teach without the laptop or PE gear, its not necessary for the purpose of your employment. Dont expect vouched expenses to be a simple solution.

Out of interest, What's the term 'quite a high threshold' mean.

Wouldn't it be true to say that even if you partly use something for non-work proposes then you can assign a portion of it for vouched expenses!

Theres someone I know who works from home and submits a portion of the internet/phone usage for work. Not all of it.

Anyway, is the revenue going to be checking up on you to see if you are wearing the same PE gear out on the weekends, or searching through your internet history?.... if anything i do most of my schoolwork on my laptop when I get home.

No shortage of self employed people driving around their company car as a family car when work is finished. Are they defrauding revenue?

I accept it's a tricky area but revenue would have a fair idea of what's what so they'd know if you're claiming more than is reasonable.

DubCount

evolving_doors wrote: »

Out of interest, What's the term 'quite a high threshold' mean.

Wouldn't it be true to say that even if you partly use something for non-work proposes then you can assign a portion of it for vouched expenses!

Theres someone I know who works from home and submits a portion of the internet/phone usage for work. Not all of it.

Anyway, is the revenue going to be checking up on you to see if you are wearing the same PE gear out on the weekends, or searching through your internet history?.... if anything i do most of my schoolwork on my laptop when I get home.

No shortage of self employed people driving around their company car as a family car when work is finished. Are they defrauding revenue?

I accept it's a tricky area but revenue would have a fair idea of what's what so they'd know if you're claiming more than is reasonable.

"Quite a high threshold" means it is a difficult standard to achieve. This is nothing new. There have been people dreaming up ways of reducing tax by claiming things are expenses for years. Its a well trodden path, and Revenue do not easily allow expenses for employees. If you believe Revenue will consider your PE gear as a valid expense - good luck, because I don't. We have a self assessment system, so in the first instance, every tax payer is responsible for their own tax affairs. I'm just saying in my opinion, I think if you are the subject of a Revenue audit, I doubt they will take a liberal view on what is an allowable expense.

In the same way that Revenue currently allow Flat Rate Expenses for teachers on the basis that they are likely to be spending some level of their personal money on resources etc., Revenue also allow a flat rate of 3.20 per work day for teleworkers. If your friend is claiming expenses above that rate, his/her employer must keep records and prove that the expenses meet the standard.

I don't want a long discussion about allowable expenses. My only point is that just having a receipt for an expense does not mean Revenue will allow it - even if you think its in some way related to your work.

dory

evolving_doors wrote: »

No shortage of self employed people driving around their company car as a family car when work is finished. Are they defrauding revenue?

Exactly. Recently heard of someone self employed (who doesn't work at home) who put a fancy pants doorbell with camera down as an expense. So my new ipad will most certainly be put down.

evolving_doors

DubCount wrote: »

"Quite a high threshold" means it is a difficult standard to achieve. This is nothing new. There have been people dreaming up ways of reducing tax by claiming things are expenses for years. Its a well trodden path, and Revenue do not easily allow expenses for employees. If you believe Revenue will consider your PE gear as a valid expense - good luck, because I don't.

Revenue do actually consider PE gear as an expense in the flat rate expenses!

Plus, if you do additional work as a PE teacher or Guidance Counsellor for your school, you can claim an additional deduction of €126 on top of the standard rate of expenses.

https://www.redoaktaxrefunds.ie/tax-refunds-for-teachers

DubCount wrote: »

We have a self assessment system, so in the first instance, every tax payer is responsible for their own tax affairs. I'm just saying in my opinion, I think if you are the subject of a Revenue audit, I doubt they will take a liberal view on what is an allowable expense.

In the same way that Revenue currently allow Flat Rate Expenses for teachers on the basis that they are likely to be spending some level of their personal money on resources etc., Revenue also allow a flat rate of 3.20 per work day for teleworkers. If your friend is claiming expenses above that rate, his/her employer must keep records and prove that the expenses meet the standard.

I don't want a long discussion about allowable expenses. My only point is that just having a receipt for an expense does not mean Revenue will allow it - even if you think its in some way related to your work.

I don't 'think' a laptop I would buy is 'in some way related' to my work. I would use it every single class. I would prepare every lesson on it. It's a requirement of my subject to use IT, I would be criticised by a department inspector if I didn't use it. So if a school doesn't provide one what's to be done?

gaiscioch

Could I calculate all my kms to and from work and claim the fuel costs for it? Then calculate what percentage of my overall travel that is and claim for that percentage of my annual tax, insurance and car depreciation?

Millem

joebloggs32 wrote: »

You will be able to now claim for vouched expenses related to doing your job. I'm fairly sure my next laptop will fit into that category.
I know it will be a pain having to put in the paperwork, but i reckon you could start claiming for quite a bot of "work related" stuff.
If you were teaching PE im sure you could claim for all your pe clothing.

Will you need to wait till the end of the year to claim?

evolving_doors

gaiscioch wrote: »

Could I calculate all my kms to and from work and claim the fuel costs for it? Then calculate what percentage of my overall travel that is and claim for that percentage of my annual tax, insurance and car depreciation?

No. To and from work doesn't count.

acequion

evolving_doors wrote: »

No. To and from work doesn't count.

But it should if you're claiming for work related expenses and that I'd imagine was the point being made! Many people commute very long distances to and from work or work related activities and some in the public service such as politicians, can claim mileage expenses. So why not all?

They really are opening up a big can of worms if they abolish the flat rate expenses.

evolving_doors

acequion wrote: »

But it should if you're claiming for work related expenses and that I'd imagine was the point being made! Many people commute very long distances to and from work or work related activities and some in the public service such as politicians, can claim mileage expenses. So why not all?

They really are opening up a big can of worms if they abolish the flat rate expenses.

But you're not actually working when you're going to work.

RealJohn

acequion wrote: »

Many people commute very long distances to and from work or work related activities and some in the public service such as politicians, can claim mileage expenses. So why not all?

To be fair, and I’m just playing devil’s advocate here because I’m not, for one second, suggesting that politicians’ mileage expenses are value for money, but there is a difference between driving/commuting to work, which we all have to do, and driving for work.
We do get mileage if, for example, we have inservice that’s more than a certain distance from our home or place of work, because that trip is not part of your normal commute to work. I would think very few workers in any sector get mileage for driving to their normal place of work.

Politicians are a slightly different case because they can (probably legitimately) argue that they have more than one place of work and that they should be entitled to some support for the commutes between them. It probably isn’t unreasonable for a Kerry TD, for example, to get some financial support for the commute between his constituency office in Tralee or An Daingean, and Leinster House, because he does need to be in both places to work. You would say that the TD whose constituency office is in Dublin City centre should get far less mileage, obviously, because he should have far less work related driving to do.

Obviously, that Kerry TD should not be claiming for a trip from Kerry to Dublin if he also has a place in Dublin, where he stayed the previous night, but if they legitimately have to travel between the two, they probably can’t be expected to swallow the whole cost of the commute (if we pretend, for a second, that politicians are actually value for money, of course).

Teachers who take a job a long distance from their home probably can’t really make the argument that they’re entitled to mileage to get to their place of work unless, for example, they’re employed by an ETB and have to travel between two schools for different classes in the same day.

mirrorwall14

I’ve zero issue with it going to a vouched system, I’ll definitely be able to claim plenty. I have a massive issue if they reduce it to 60e a year and I’m not allowed to submit my voucher expenses? That would be mental

acequion

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’ve zero issue with it going to a vouched system, I’ll definitely be able to claim plenty. I have a massive issue if they reduce it to 60e a year and I’m not allowed to submit my voucher expenses? That would be mental

Oh god I've a big issue with that. Our lives are already mired in paper work. This only adds to stress and exhaustion and all it serves is the relatively recent obsession with accountability, accountability at whatever cost. The flat rate expenses are and have always been a sensible measure.

mirrorwall14

acequion wrote: »

Oh god I've a big issue with that. Our lives are already mired in paper work. This only adds to stress and exhaustion and all it serves is the relatively recent obsession with accountability, accountability at whatever cost. The flat rate expenses are and have always been a sensible measure.

Only at a sensible level. If they reduce it to a 60e tax credit then that’s nothing and I spend way more

evolving_doors

You'd be better off contracting yourself out to your school as a private business.

RealJohn

evolving_doors wrote: »

You'd be better off contracting yourself out to your school as a private business.

I’ve often wondered if that’s an option. Surely there must be some scope for that, especially if you’ve an in demand subject?