Russia fires on Ukranian vessels

gandalf

pri wrote: »

Could this genuinely result in an all-out military confrontation between Russia and Ukraine?

Unless the Ukrainians have a death wish I doubt it.

However given Russia's continued aggressive actions carrying out death by a thousand cuts on the Ukrainian State it is pushing things towards a head in the Ukraine. Russias ultimate goal is to make the Ukraine unpalatable to becoming a EU member.

batgoat

Tigerbaby wrote: »

and is Russia not democratic?

or have I missed something?

God Bless Putin.

Not particularly, terrible human rights record, dissident voices end up mysteriously dead or in prison. High rates of journalists being assassinated. They fall under authoritarian in the democracy index(Run by The Economist).

igCorcaigh

gandalf wrote: »

Unless the Ukrainians have a death wish I doubt it.

However given Russia's continued aggressive actions carrying out death by a thousand cuts on the Ukrainian State it is pushing things towards a head in the Ukraine. Russias ultimate goal is to make the Ukraine unpalatable to becoming a EU member.

Exactly this.

P_1

gandalf wrote: »

Unless the Ukrainians have a death wish I doubt it.

However given Russia's continued aggressive actions carrying out death by a thousand cuts on the Ukrainian State it is pushing things towards a head in the Ukraine. Russias ultimate goal is to make the Ukraine unpalatable to becoming a EU member.

Youd have thought they'd already have achieved that

Irish Praetorian

Ah Russia up to no good again, right have we gotten through all the usual deflections already? Someone has mentioned Syria I see, one box ticked off; I see Russia has gone from participating in that conflict to winning it singlehanded - god knows what all those Kurds, Iraqis, Syrians were doing let alone western airforces, having tea presumably. Now can I get a 'Cameron and Sarkozy bombed the Libya' ideally with a side order of 'pariah nation with less gold than Greece which was doing to topple the petrodollar with gold dinars' please, thank you. Lastly can someone just sit in the corner rocking back and forth repeating 'Ukraine, Fascist, Ukraine, Fascist, Ukraine, Fascist' and I think we will have all our bases covered.

igCorcaigh

pri wrote: »

If it won't lead to a Russo-Ukrainian war, why is the latter declaring martial law?

Internal politics. See above about the upcoming elections.

Make of it what you will though.

gandalf

P_1 wrote: »

Youd have thought they'd already have achieved that

I suppose they are making sure but remember this is also for the home audience as well. Putins popularity has been dropping especially with young people in recent times.

Nothing like a bit of warlike chest beating to increase a despots poll figures eh

Harry Palmr

Why do all the worst countries have all the best carbon goodies?

igCorcaigh

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Some people talk about Ukraine's fascist tendencies.

Maybe they are right, maybe they are wrong.

But this incident can easily add fuel to that fire.
As it will also to the narrative of the Russian aggressor.


https://twitter.com/WimLuyckx/status/1066810756950368256?s=19

I was gonna ask what martial law meant. I guess that tweet was answering that question?

Gatling

gandalf wrote: »

I suppose they are making sure but remember this is also for the home audience as well. Putins popularity has been dropping especially with young people in recent times.

Nothing like a bit of warlike chest beating to increase a despots poll figures eh

The skirpals
Spy networks getting caught
Russians soldiers wiped out.by American forces in Syria
Almost sinking there one antique aircraft carrier while docked ,

Aul vlaidi isn't having a great time of it lately

CinemaGuy45

gandalf wrote: »

I suppose they are making sure but remember this is also for the home audience as well. Putins popularity has been dropping especially with young people in recent times.

Nothing like a bit of warlike chest beating to increase a despots poll figures eh

You mean like this?

namloc1980

Bizarrely the Ukrainian Defence committee meeting is live on Ukrainian TV/YouTube:

.

P_1

pri wrote: »

What are the very latest updates?

I hear NATO is condemning the occurrences tonight.

Well Trump seems busy closing the border crossings between San Diego and Tijuana, that's what appears to be grabbing the headlines in America, that and the football, seemingly the Browns won away from home. The EU is focused on the mess that is Brexit. Seems the perfect time for Vlad to try something shady

gandalf

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

You mean like this?

Absolutely. Then again I don't believe in the old X did something bad therefore Y should be allowed to as well. It's too playground based for me.

Gatling

P_1 wrote: »

Well Trump seems busy closing the border crossings between San Diego and Tijuana, that's what appears to be grabbing the headlines in America, that and the football, seemingly the Browns won away from home. The EU is focused on the mess that is Brexit. Seems the perfect time for Vlad to try something shady

Very well timed don't you think.

And yet some on here will likely blame the Ukrainians for invading Moscow with a single unarmed tug boat.

Wonder if the Irish navy could size the whole Atlantic Ocean from Galway to ellis Island

gandalf

namloc1980 wrote: »

Bizarrely the Ukrainian Defence committee meeting is live on Ukrainian TV/YouTube:

.

Well if they declare war it will give those watching enough time to kiss their families goodbye!

prinzeugen

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

You mean like this?

So Thatcher asked Argentina to invade British territory so Britain could go to war with them just to improve Thatchers popularity???

Right....

Tigerbaby

such an echo chamber in here tonight.

yes we're right. of course we are dearie.

all those nasty Russians putting their borders close to NATO bases.

CinemaGuy45

prinzeugen wrote: »

So Thatcher asked Argentina to invade British territory so Britain could go to war with them just to improve Thatchers popularity???

Right....

A few old farts living on islands in the middle of nowhere it would have made no practical difference to let Argentina just run the things.

Sure they are as British as beans on toast.;)

Gatling

I see a change of direction from low count posters .

namloc1980

Ukrainian president has sent a request to impose martial law to the Ukrainian parliament tomorrow. Even at the height of the crisis a few years ago and the annexation of Crimea they didn't impose martial law. He's behind in the polling for the presidential election due in early 2019 - elections can be postponed under martial law. Interesting context.

Irish Praetorian

Tigerbaby wrote: »

such an echo chamber in here tonight.

yes we're right. of course we are dearie.

all those nasty Russians putting their borders close to NATO bases.

Those nasty NATO bases, to their credit, at least have the decency to be on the correct side of those international borders, within countries that care to have them. Sadly when it comes to Russian troops, one cannot say the same thing.

igCorcaigh

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

A few old farts living on islands in the middle of nowhere it would have made no practical difference to let Argentina just run the things.

Sure they are as British as beans on toast.;)

I remember those times as a kid. At 8 years, one of my friends were British. One of their family fought. Stupid war, as are they all.

Gatling

namloc1980 wrote: »

He's behind in the presidential election due in early 2019 - elections can be postponed under martial law. Interesting context.

So he sent the tug boat to invade russia so he in turn could impose martial law and in turn keep his job as president

Don't let the usual suspects read this we will never hear the end of it

igCorcaigh

namloc1980 wrote: »

Ukrainian president has sent a request to impose martial law to the Ukrainian parliament tomorrow. Even at the height of the crisis a few years ago and the annexation of Crimea they didn't impose martial law. He's behind in the polling for the presidential election due in early 2019 - elections can be postponed under martial law. Interesting context.

This seems to be true... Bad move. Ukraine should just lick their wounds and go home. Nobody wants armed conflict.

namloc1980

Gatling wrote: »

So he sent the tug boat to invade russia so he in turn could impose martial law and in turn keep his job as president .

Makes sense now that you put it together!

Seriously though broadcasting the country's defence committee meeting live on TV is playing up massively to the home audience. Bizarre carry on.

CinemaGuy45

Tigerbaby wrote: »

such an echo chamber in here tonight.

yes we're right. of course we are dearie.

all those nasty Russians putting their borders close to NATO bases.

Yes, dam Russians just looking for trouble.

prinzeugen

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

A few old farts living on islands in the middle of nowhere it would have made no practical difference to let Argentina just run the things.

Sure they are as British as beans on toast.;)

I have been to the Falklands so dont need a map. You should read up about who was running Argentina at the time. Lovely gentleman he was!

It was him that was desperate to increase his popularity not Thatcher.

Ten of Swords

Holodomor remembrance day was yesterday in Ukraine

Just sayin...



/TinfoilHat

gandalf

igCorcaigh wrote: »

I remember those times as a kid. At 8 years, one of my friends were British. One of their family fought. Stupid war, as are they all.

Yep I was twelve, I remember me and my school mates were all delighted when the Argentinians sunk a British Ship, thankfully I have matured since those days.

The ironic thing is that Brexit might make the Falklands being attached to Britain untenable.

Gatling

igCorcaigh wrote: »

This seems to be true... Bad move. Ukraine should just lick their wounds and go home. Nobody wants armed conflict.

So let russia keep grabbing land and water and anything else they can get their hands on and blame the Ukrainians.

It's like a parent of a bully blaming the kids being bullied for being weak

Gatling

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Holodomor remembrance day was yesterday in Ukraine

Just sayin...



/TinfoilHat

85 years since to be exact

gandalf

namloc1980 wrote: »

Makes sense now that you put it together!

Seriously though broadcasting the country's defence committee meeting live on TV is playing up massively to the home audience. Bizarre carry on.

Nope its logical to me. They can't do anything militarily but they can make grand statements on TV to appear tough and placate the home audience.

babi-hrse

Akrasia wrote: »

Ukraine could have joined NATO in 2010 but their president pulled out. Bet they wish they hadn't done that now.

Er the people kinda wanted that to happen Russia didn't that's why their president pulled out. The whole thing started with the people and the president looking to join the EU all was going well until suddenly at the last minute the president put a stop to that in an about face change of heart. Putin probably threatened him as didn't want europe at his front door that set the whole maidan protests off

igCorcaigh

We live in a great time of opportunity.

For once, we could join our national interests together, to fight the challenges of the 21c, and co-create on the amazing new technologies!

Can we actually work together? The pay offs seem so much better than the stand offs.

And what ****ty global leaders we have

Somebody give me hope.

mad muffin

whisky_galore wrote: »

Think you can put together quite a list of nations who cosied up to Hitler at one time or another.

Sure could. A lot of them have seen the error of their ways. Ukraine? Not so much.

Gatling

mad muffin wrote: »

Sure could. A lot of them have seen the error of their ways. Ukraine? Not so much.

???

enricoh

Send over our illustrious td john halligan, he was gonna sort out things with kim jumg il in north korea last year, why not putin this year!

SterlingArcher

Gatling wrote: »

So let russia keep grabbing land and water and anything else they can get their hands on and blame the Ukrainians.

It's like a parent of a bully blaming the kids being bullied for being weak

Who's bulling who tho Gatling.... Look up the US missile defence systems being installed all along Russias borders by America, 2008 poland, and others, long before Ukraine happened. America has been pushing and pushing. It is now the biggest $upplier.

I'd wager Ukraine was the final straw.

No I'm not pro Russia.

Irish Praetorian

SterlingArcher wrote: »

Who's doing the bulling who tho Gatling.... Look up the US missile defence systems being installed all along Russias borders by America, 2008 poland, and others, long before Ukraine happened. America has been pushing and pushing. It is now the biggest $upplier.

I'd wager Ukraine was the the final straw.

No I'm not pro Russia.

I'm sorry, the US is bad because it wanted to ward off potential aggression against Eastern Europe, which has in living memory been annexed/vassalized by the Soviet Union, and this is an example of their aggression?

This is one of those peculiar ideas I usually only hear from Russians or their apologists which when plainly stated seems to be little more than the idea that if you refuse to lay prostrate and defenceless before an aggressor, then you ARE the aggressor. I recall a similar example from history when in 1939 one of the great complaints of the Soviets against the Finns was that the Finns were building defensive bunkers, and this supposedly constituted such an existential threat to the Soviet Union that they had littler alternative but to invade.

It was a ridiculous notion then, it remains a ridiculous notion now.

gandalf

Why did so many Eastern bloc nations readily agree to join their former enemy NATO? I wonder why that was? NATO doesn't invade and forcibly build bases, those nations had to apply for membership and invite them in? Why did they do that? Any answers from the "RT" side please

Irish Praetorian

gandalf wrote: »

Why did so many Eastern bloc nations readily agree to join their former enemy NATO? I wonder why that was? NATO doesn't invade and forcibly build bases, those nations had to apply for membership and invite them in? Why did they do that? Any answers from the "RT" side please

Going to put what I EXPECT the answers to be in spoilers, wait for some actual responses to come in before checking the spoiler section.

Rabble Rabble Afghanistan!
Rabble rabble everyone who dislikes Russia is a NEO NAZI!
Rabble Rabble Libya and Syria!

gandalf

Ah Irish Praetorian you left out

George Soros

Doctors room ghost

What’s happening now.is it kicking off

thomil

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

What’s happening now.is it kicking off

Lots of saber-rattling, bots and trolls working overtime on Twitter, but nothing else at the moment. The last I heard was that the ships in question, two 23 meter patrol boats and a tugboat, have been seized by Russia, with their crews in custody.
The Ukranian parliament will vote about the imposition of martial law sometime tomorrow, and Russia is apparently calling for an emergency session of the UN Security Council. Ukrainian armed forces are on high alert, which is understandable, and there is some talk going around about reservists being called up for active duty, but nothing along those lines is confirmed. I doubt there'll be any major developments until tomorrow.

Gatling

SterlingArcher wrote: »

Who's bulling who tho Gatling.... Look up the US missile defence systems being installed all along Russias borders by America, 2008 poland,

10 missle silos were going to Poland that's not happening they are getting a different system ,we have russian nuclear weapons in Kaliningrad ,missles in Crimea ,

Russians have more weapons targeted at Europe than vice versa ,
This whole russia is being surrounded is nonsense ,
Russians populations maintained across eastern Europe to guarantee a say and influence across the board ,(whether its wanted or not )
All we get is oh poor russia looked what happened to them in ww2 ,let's not forget their actions post ww2 ,

CinemaGuy45

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

What’s happening now.is it kicking off

Gatling

Russia reopened the Kerch Strait to all shipping,

Ah well.

SterlingArcher

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I'm sorry, the US is bad because it wanted to ward off potential aggression against Eastern Europe, which has in living memory been annexed/vassalized by the Soviet Union, and this is an example of their aggression?

This is one of those peculiar ideas I usually only hear from Russians or their apologists which when plainly stated seems to be little more than the idea that if you refuse to lay prostrate and defenceless before an aggressor, then you ARE the aggressor. I recall a similar example from history when in 1939 one of the great complaints of the Soviets against the Finns was that the Finns were building defensive bunkers, and this supposedly constituted such an existential threat to the Soviet Union that they had littler alternative but to invade.

It was a ridiculous notion then, it remains a ridiculous notion now.

You should be sorry. With your Russian apologists crap.

It is the strategic siege of Russia. No two ways about it.

If China or Russia start putting missile defence systems on America's boarders what the hell do you think would be the reaction. Cuban missile crisis.

Like the notion of US aggression is so far fetched. This is one of them peculiar ideas you only hear from Tony Blair apologists.

McHardcore

Gatling wrote: »

Russia reopened the Kerch Strait to all shipping,

Ah well.

Good news! It must have been a test by Russia to see what the Wests reaction would be.