2018 DCM (& Limerick & Berlin) Graduates Log: How far can we go?

Huzzah!

Oh and welcome back - hope you'd a nice trip home

OOnegative

Huzzah! wrote: »

It's full-steam ahead for me for Raheny. I tried out a running club last night and think I'd like to join. I assume it's okay to swap the Wednesday session on the Grads 5-10k plan for whatever session the club is doing on a Tuesday? So, club session on a Tuesday but follow the plan for the rest of the week?

Can’t see an issue with that at all, are the sessions 5/10k specific do you know? Trip home was manic but good thanks!!

ReeReeG

I don't think I'll make Raheny now, so looking about for a 5 or 10k in February to keep me ticking over.

Rossi7

Same as Huzzah, went training with a club last night and don't see why I would not join. Their two main sessions are Tuesday and Thursday nights so I'll work the grads plan around that. I've signed up for Raheny too

OOnegative

ReeReeG wrote: »

I don't think I'll make Raheny now, so looking about for a 5 or 10k in February to keep me ticking over.

Enniscorthy 10k in February is a good race, not sure where your based though.

ReeReeG

OOnegative wrote:

Enniscorthy 10k in February is a good race, not sure where your based though.

Huzzah! was also pushing this one on me
Am certainly thinking about it!

Huzzah!

ReeReeG wrote: »

Huzzah! was also pushing this one on me
Am certainly thinking about it!

Huzzah! is an awful bully

Here's my Strava from last year if it helps. You might just ignore the blow up around the sixth km

https://www.strava.com/activities/1402491269

Huzzah!

OOnegative wrote: »

Can’t see an issue with that at all, are the sessions 5/10k specific do you know? Trip home was manic but good thanks!!

It'll probably become clearer after a few weeks. Tuesday is a track session and last night was a pyramid session and I think beneficial for 5/10k stuff.

ReeReeG

Huzzah! wrote:

Huzzah! is an awful bully

There are worse things you could be pushing!

Thanks for the Strava link!

juke

OOnegative wrote: »

Apologies folks, was home in Ireland the past week and my phone reception was very very patchy. All those targeting the Raheny 5 should have there teeth well into training at this stage? What is the plan for others?

I, and a good few others, I think, are in the sick or injured camp. I think we need a support group

Swashbuckler

Huzzah! wrote:

It's full-steam ahead for me for Raheny. I tried out a running club last night and think I'd like to join. I assume it's okay to swap the Wednesday session on the Grads 5-10k plan for whatever session the club is doing on a Tuesday? So, club session on a Tuesday but follow the plan for the rest of the week?

Just one word of caution I'd give on this. I'm not completely familiar with the plan but one thing I'd guess is that there are typically two days of easy running or rest between sessions? so if you do shift your session to the Tuesday you'd ideally want to be doing your other session on Friday and long run Saturday. But that's probably not a set rule. Just a guideline.

coogy

Hi folks.

Just back from a 60 minute progression run (easy to MP). I really enjoyed it but the latter stages of it had me questioning if I'm actually using the correct paces from the pace calculator.

I used my most recent 5k time and within the 60 minutes, I went from 'easy pace' to 'tempo', which I'm guessing would be marathon pace?


Would hate to think I was running beyond what was necessary so would appreciate any thoughts! Thanks!

OOnegative

coogy wrote: »

Hi folks.

Just back from a 60 minute progression run (easy to MP). I really enjoyed it but the latter stages of it had me questioning if I'm actually using the correct paces from the pace calculator.

I used my most recent 5k time and within the 60 minutes, I went from 'easy pace' to 'tempo', which I'm guessing would be marathon pace?


Would hate to think I was running beyond what was necessary so would appreciate any thoughts! Thanks!

Tempo is more half marathon pace than marathon pace, if you were working towards the end of it the ‘tempo’ pace might be the reason.

cullenswood

Tempo pace would not be the same as MP.

Tempo pace would traditionally be the pace you can hold for one hour.

Huzzah!

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Just one word of caution I'd give on this. I'm not completely familiar with the plan but one thing I'd guess is that there are typically two days of easy running or rest between sessions? so if you do shift your session to the Tuesday you'd ideally want to be doing your other session on Friday and long run Saturday. But that's probably not a set rule. Just a guideline.

Yep, thanks. Planning on moving everything back a day as you've suggested.

eyrie

OOnegative wrote: »

Apologies folks, was home in Ireland the past week and my phone reception was very very patchy. All those targeting the Raheny 5 should have there teeth well into training at this stage? What is the plan for others?

I'll be running Raheny but not targeting anything in particular as I'm still slowly working my way back to full training. But it seemed worth signing up anyway for the goody bag and the outing

Went to check out a club last night myself (must be something in the air this week) so like the others I'm wondering about how to work it. I really like the idea of running with other people but also like following my own plan, so if I join I mightn't go religiously.

OOnegative

eyrie wrote: »

Went to check out a club last night myself (must be something in the air this week) so like the others I'm wondering about how to work it. I really like the idea of running with other people but also like following my own plan, so if I join I mightn't go religiously.

As Swashbuckler pointed out above, make sure there’s adequate days between sessions whatever you decide. I’m a member of a club & have never trained with them once due to work circumstances before moving over here & I continue to be a member while I’m here to. It’s up to yourself how often you attend.

Swashbuckler

OOnegative wrote:

As Swashbuckler pointed out above, make sure there’s adequate days between sessions whatever you decide. I’m a member of a club & have never trained with them once due to work circumstances before moving over here & I continue to be a member while I’m here to. It’s up to yourself how often you attend.

I'd echo this. I joined a club in August. I've trained with them once. Some lads never train with them. Some go religiously.

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

Hi folks.

Just back from a 60 minute progression run (easy to MP). I really enjoyed it but the latter stages of it had me questioning if I'm actually using the correct paces from the pace calculator.

I used my most recent 5k time and within the 60 minutes, I went from 'easy pace' to 'tempo', which I'm guessing would be marathon pace?


Would hate to think I was running beyond what was necessary so would appreciate any thoughts! Thanks!

Using the pace calculator and the plan I would go from easy to easy tempo. The terms used on the calculator do not necessarily match up with other interpretations of tempo/ threshold etc.

If you are prescribed easy to MP I would suggest easy on the calculator to a real life probable MP.

coogy

cullenswood wrote: »

Tempo pace would not be the same as MP.

Tempo pace would traditionally be the pace you can hold for one hour.

Ok, great thanks for clearing that up!

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

Using the pace calculator and the plan I would go from easy to easy tempo. The terms used on the calculator do not necessarily match up with other interpretations of tempo/ threshold etc.

If you are prescribed easy to MP I would suggest easy on the calculator to a real life probable MP.

Yeah, that seems more like it S. I was by no means out of my comfort zone but the pace did leave me second guessing alright.

coogy

OOnegative wrote: »

Tempo is more half marathon pace than marathon pace, if you were working towards the end of it the ‘tempo’ pace might be the reason.

Thanks OO!

I was rewarded for my efforts today by sharing a cheery wave with President Higgins himself as his limousine pulled out of the Aras!

eyrie

OOnegative wrote: »

As Swashbuckler pointed out above, make sure there’s adequate days between sessions whatever you decide. I’m a member of a club & have never trained with them once due to work circumstances before moving over here & I continue to be a member while I’m here to. It’s up to yourself how often you attend.

Definitely, I'm being very cautious about recovery at the moment so would be making sure to allow plenty of time in between any hard efforts.
I'm also thinking now about the point you mentioned to Huzzah! a few posts back though about whether the club sessions are 5k/10k specific. I hadn't thought about that as a factor before, but that's the distance I hope to target next too. I don't know anything yet about how they plan the sessions out but I suppose if they're not targeting the same thing as me I might not go to too many anyway. Need to find out a bit more about how it all works still!

Swashbuckler

eyrie wrote:

Definitely, I'm being very cautious about recovery at the moment so would be making sure to allow plenty of time in between any hard efforts. I'm also thinking now about the point you mentioned to Huzzah! a few posts back though about whether the club sessions are 5k/10k specific. I hadn't thought about that as a factor before, but that's the distance I hope to target next too. I don't know anything yet about how they plan the sessions out but I suppose if they're not targeting the same thing as me I might not go to too many anyway. Need to find out a bit more about how it all works still!

I think one way to approach it is have your plan and do the club session every now and then. It doesn't really matter if the odd session is "off plan". You'll get a stimulus from the session regardless which will stand to you whether it's 5k specific or not, plus the added benifit of running with a group. After writing this I'm now wondering why I haven't done more with the club!

eyrie

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I think one way to approach it is have your plan and do the club session every now and then. It doesn't really matter if the odd session is "off plan". You'll get a stimulus from the session regardless which will stand to you whether it's 5k specific or not, plus the added benifit of running with a group. After writing this I'm now wondering why I haven't done more with the club!

:P
Fair points though! Yeah I reckon it can't be any harm to opt for the club sessions some of the time anyway.

roosterman71

Anyone every use runcoach?

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

Not me but I have used their training paces as that is the pace calculator attached to the grads plan

Is that not RunFastCoach S? The Tinman caclulator. I think RunCoach is different

skyblue46

ariana` wrote: »

Is that not RunFastCoach S? The Tinman caclulator. I think RunCoach is different

You are probably right!! :pac::pac:

Huzzah!

OOnegative wrote: »

Enniscorthy 10k in February is a good race, not sure where your based though.

I've just entered this - I've some demons to slay from last year.

Mr. Guappa

I have a question on the weekend runs. For DCM we would typically have done the long run of a Saturday, with a few recovery miles on the Sunday. The graduate plans on the other hand have a session of some sort on the Saturday (30 min tempo, 4 x 6min @ threshold, etc.) with the long run on the Sunday.

I guess I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind why they are laid out in this way. I think if I understand the why, it helps get me out the door.

OOnegative

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I have a question on the weekend runs. For DCM we would typically have done the long run of a Saturday, with a few recovery miles on the Sunday. The graduate plans on the other hand have a session of some sort on the Saturday (30 min tempo, 4 x 6min @ threshold, etc.) with the long run on the Sunday.

I guess I'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind why they are laid out in this way. I think if I understand the why, it helps get me out the door.

The reason for a long run the day after a session is about adaptation. Getting the body/legs used to running long after a session will make legs stronger hopefully making us a better runner. As you get more marathon blocks into your legs the long run will maybe be moved to Sunday and ran after a week of decent mileage, same idea basically as grads plan, adapting the body to run on tired legs making it stronger come marathon day.

Hedgehoggy

OOnegative wrote: »

The reason for a long run the day after a session is about adaptation. Getting the body/legs used to running long after a session will make legs stronger hopefully making us a better runner. As you get more marathon blocks into your legs the long run will maybe be moved to Sunday and ran after a week of decent mileage, same idea basically as grads plan, adapting the body to run on tired legs making it stronger come marathon day.

I had sort of accidentally been doing this in my marathon training block last year. Friday was the only day I could fit in sessions and the long run on the Sunday. Had a day rest in between but always felt I was doing the long run on tired legs and suspected it helped me get stronger

juke

After weeks of hardly any running at all, between Christmas & skiing hols, girl 'flu, knee rehab, I think I'm finally back. Did 60 min easy earlier, and it felt great.

I'm going to start my modified version of base building again tomorrow, hoping there'll be less distractions this time.

OOnegative

juke wrote: »

After weeks of hardly any running at all, between Christmas & skiing hols, girl 'flu, knee rehab, I think I'm finally back. Did 60 min easy earlier, and it felt great.

I'm going to start my modified version of base building again tomorrow, hoping there'll be less distractions this time.

Good stuff, glad to see you back at it. Am sure the girl “flu” was mild compared to its male counterpart!!!

juke

OOnegative wrote: »

Good stuff, glad to see you back at it. Am sure the girl “flu” was mild compared to its male counterpart!!!

Oh, but of course :rolleyes:

Applegirl26

I've a question about how to manage the Raheny race next Sunday, into my plan for the week....
I start week 4 tomorrow, and I have a 90 min progression run due at the weekend. Should I move this to say Wednesday? And then run raheny on Sunday?
Or just omit the progression run, race raheny and add the extra miles onto another day?

I'm also racing trim the following week...

Thank you!

OOnegative

Applegirl26 wrote: »

I've a question about how to manage the Raheny race next Sunday, into my plan for the week....
I start week 4 tomorrow, and I have a 90 min progression run due at the weekend. Should I move this to say Wednesday? And then run raheny on Sunday?
Or just omit the progression run, race raheny and add the extra miles onto another day?

I'm also racing trim the following week...

Thank you!

Drop the progression run and race Raheny, add miles to other runs to get your desired mileage for the week. Regarding Trim the following week, I would drop the mid week CV session and run easy that day. Race Trim with warm up/cool down should bring you 13/14 miles of quality work for the day. Sound reasonable?

Applegirl26

OOnegative wrote: »

Drop the progression run and race Raheny, add miles to other runs to get your desired mileage for the week. Regarding Trim the following week, I would drop the mid week CV session and run easy that day. Race Trim with warm up/cool down should bring you 13/14 miles of quality work for the day. Sound reasonable?

Sounds perfect! Thanks so much.

coogy

El CabaIIo wrote: »

Very easy is recovery. Everything else is marked out in the calculator under training paces I think. So if you have a workout @CV pace, just refer to the calculator and look under the 1000m heading for pace if you use Km or the 1600m for miles across from that intensity. The same for moderate and tempo and all that other stuff.

I feel like every time I post on this thread, I am one step closer to disproving them the term 'there's no such thing as a stupid question'.......

Can I ask why we refer to the 1600m distance on the pacing chart if we are running at CV pace?

Huzzah!

coogy wrote: »

I feel like every time I post on this thread, I am one step closer to disproving them the term 'there's no such thing as a stupid question'.......

Can I ask why we refer to the 1600m distance on the pacing chart if we are running at CV pace?

I think El C was just explaining how to use the calculator to work out the training paces on the plan, with 1,600m being the mile equivalent but there's a mile tab also, so I'm not sure it matters which one you use?

CV was just used as an example, I believe.

coogy

Hi folks, I have some thoughts I'd like to 'get out there', if you like.

By the end of this week, I'll have made it half way through the base plan so by mid-February, I'll have had it completed. It's my intention to move on to the 10k-half marathon plan afterwards so what I was wondering was, how long should I wait between each of the plans?

Another question I have that ties in with the one above is to do with races. I'm very keen to get at least a couple under my belt over the next few months, with the intention of 'racing' them. My concern is that if I do decide to give it my all in a particular race, it will not fit in with wherever I happen to be with the particular plan I am using.

And one more question.........:rolleyes: once I finish with the base plan, do I use the same pacing for the 10k-half marathon plan?


Sorry if any of the above has already been addressed!!!!

ReeReeG

coogy wrote:

And one more question......... once I finish with the base plan, do I use the same pacing for the 10k-half marathon plan?

You could take a week between the two plans and race, and have training paces from where you're at then?

OOnegative

coogy wrote: »

Hi folks, I have some thoughts I'd like to 'get out there', if you like.

By the end of this week, I'll have made it half way through the base plan so by mid-February, I'll have had it completed. It's my intention to move on to the 10k-half marathon plan afterwards so what I was wondering was, how long should I wait between each of the plans?

Another question I have that ties in with the one above is to do with races. I'm very keen to get at least a couple under my belt over the next few months, with the intention of 'racing' them. My concern is that if I do decide to give it my all in a particular race, it will not fit in with wherever I happen to be with the particular plan I am using.

And one more question.........:rolleyes: once I finish with the base plan, do I use the same pacing for the 10k-half marathon plan?


Sorry if any of the above has already been addressed!!!!

1. I wouldn’t take any break at all between plans, your basically building the base currently to start a plan, no break.

2. Regarding racing, I would simply drop one of the sessions that week and replace it with the race. Push other sessions post race out a day maybe to give yourself adequate time to recover.

3. If you haven’t raced since starting the base building plan stick to the paces you have been using for that. Gives you an excuse to race fairly soon into the 10k-Half plan to see where your at.

ReeReeG

OOnegative wrote:

1. I wouldn’t take any break at all between plans, your basically building the base currently to start a plan, no break.

Oops 😉

OOnegative

ReeReeG wrote: »

Oops 😉

No, no oops at all. I should have stated that would be my preference. A week between the plans is no harm if that’s what suits, but I wouldn’t leave it any longer than that.

skyblue46

OOnegative wrote: »

No, no oops at all. I should have stated that would be my preference. A week between the plans is no harm if that’s what suits, but I wouldn’t leave it any longer than that.

I would add to this that a week or two between the plans is fine if you are continuing to do a similar level of training and maybe a session or two with your club. I wouldn't take a break though.

Swashbuckler

coogy wrote:

By the end of this week, I'll have made it half way through the base plan so by mid-February, I'll have had it completed. It's my intention to move on to the 10k-half marathon plan afterwards so what I was wondering was, how long should I wait between each of the plans?

I wouldn't bother with a break. But as suggested it could be a good opportunity to race something shorter if it suits.

coogy wrote:

Another question I have that ties in with the one above is to do with races. I'm very keen to get at least a couple under my belt over the next few months, with the intention of 'racing' them. My concern is that if I do decide to give it my all in a particular race, it will not fit in with wherever I happen to be with the particular plan I am using.

Regular racing is a good thing as long as it's managed right. 5ks in particular have a reasonably quick recovery time. I wouldn't go racing a load of HM's if you get me.
As Oonegative suggested you can set the week up around the race. For example if it's a Saturday race then you might have easy Monday, tuneup session Tuesday, easy Wednesday and Thursday, rest or shakeout Friday and race Saturday. Long run will suffer that week.

coogy wrote:

And one more question......... once I finish with the base plan, do I use the same pacing for the 10k-half marathon plan?

Assuming you don't race between the two plans then I'd be using the base plan paces. But in an ideal world you'd learn by feel if your paces are right or wrong and alter them intuitively

coogy

Swashbuckler wrote: »

But in an ideal world you'd learn by feel if your paces are right or wrong and alter them intuitively

That's something I'm always trying to figure out. I think I'm getting better at it though......

coogy

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Regular racing is a good thing as long as it's managed right. 5ks in particular have a reasonably quick recovery time. I wouldn't go racing a load of HM's if you get me.

To me, 5k runs were like "pah"! Now, I totally respect this distance just as much as I do a 10k or 10 mile run. Sure, it's all relative but it requires just as much effort as any other distance IMO.

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

I would add to this that a week or two between the plans is fine if you are continuing to do a similar level of training and maybe a session or two with your club. I wouldn't take a break though.

Thanks S. Starting to get back into the groove again!!