Serious Incident in Castleblayney.

amcalester

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

While i presume he didnt really have time to put on his cap and complete a risk assessment, its nice to know there are Gardai who will do their utmost to catch the baddies.
The only person responsible for killing the unfortunate chap was the cnut in the Audi trying to avoid being arrested.
Your man was on the run 8 years. I reckon they had been looking for him, maybe had givin up, so maybe the cop said "this fcuker isnt getting away again" or something when he saw him.

More on the incident in today's Indo, this is the second time the driver injured this Garda.

RobbieMD

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

He was brave for sure. But did he act correctly, or, recklessly put the lives of others at risk in what he did? I'm not so sure on that one.

Sometimes a risk has to be taken surely. If all you had to do was drive away safe in the knowledge the Gardai won’t pursue you, then that’s exactly what every criminal would do.

Fair play to that member. It really is a job that you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

Dozyart

cctv footage of the incident is doing the rounds,how the guard manages to get back to his feet after being dragged through the carnage seconds before is beyond me

Deebles McBeebles

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

He was brave for sure. But did he act correctly, or, recklessly put the lives of others at risk in what he did? I'm not so sure on that one.

That's akin to, yes he raped her but what was she wearing.

Captain Obvious

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

That's akin to, yes he raped her but what was she wearing.

It's not really. Gardaí have to keep bystanders in mind when executing their duties. GSOC will be looking at the Garda's actions to see if he holds any responsibility and can be prosecuted. It will be a lot of added stress for that Garda.

Raheem Euro

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

He was brave for sure. But did he act correctly, or, recklessly put the lives of others at risk in what he did? I'm not so sure on that one.

The Bench Warrant is a Court Order which the garda is legally obliged to execute. It's not open to choice on his part.

Deebles McBeebles

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's not really. Gardaí have to keep bystanders in mind when executing their duties. GSOC will be looking at the Garda's actions to see if he holds any responsibility and can be prosecuted. It will be a lot of added stress for that Garda.

It is from the point of entirely the wrong person being blamed. Of course this incident will be looked in to but there's no chance he can be blamed for any damage the guy in the Audi caused.

Raheem Euro

Being pursued by a garda (a regular occurence for professional criminals) does not excuse or entitle them to drive at speed or out of control. The driver made the decision to drive in a manner which threatened lives. His decision, his action. You couldn't expect gardai to step off pursuing criminals because potentially one of them some day could be a calous, reckless maniac who will kill people in order to try and escape. In fact they are the ones who need to be caught above all others.

Captain Obvious

Raheem Euro wrote: »

Being pursued by a garda (a regular occurence for professional criminals) does not excuse or entitle them to drive at speed or out of control. The driver made the decision to drive in a manner which threatened lives. His decision, his action. You couldn't expect gardai to step off pursuing criminals because potentially one of them some day could be a calous, reckless maniac who will kill people in order to try and escape. In fact they are the ones who need to be caught above all others.

That's not how it works in real life though. Gardaí can get in trouble if pursuing a vehicle and it crashes and kills a bystander. This particular incident is actually a fairly unique one though. The Garda was in the car just before the crash. GSOC could very possibly try and put some blame on him for interfering with the driver. They are quite unpredictable. I hope he will be cleared quickly but he will be under intense pressure until he is.

Raheem Euro

Captain Obvious wrote: »

That's not how it works in real life though. Gardaí can get in trouble if pursuing a vehicle and it crashes and kills a bystander. This particular incident is actually a fairly unique one though. The Garda was in the car just before the crash. GSOC could very possibly try and put some blame on him for interfering with the driver. They are quite unpredictable. I hope he will be cleared quickly but he will be under intense pressure until he is.

You won't be able to site a statute or court case where that positikn is held. Only perhaps a windy decision made by someone in your own organisation.

In this incident the cop threw himself into a car. That action endangers nobody. The decision of the driver to drive recklessly at speed was the one and only one, that endangered lives.

The cop is carrying out his lawfuly duty in hot pursuit of a criminal.

Captain Obvious

Raheem Euro wrote: »

You won't be able to site a statute or court case where that positikn is held. Only perhaps a windy decision made by someone in your own organisation.

I'm not really sure what that means. Do you think he won't be investigated or he won't be worried about it?

Raheem Euro

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I'm not really sure what that means. Do you think he won't be investigated or he won't be worried about it?

I mean what law or regulation are you suggesting he broke?

If the answer is none then he needn't worry.

spodoinkle

Any ideas what is going on in the CCTV; the guy is on a straight road, floors it and swerves into the parked car.....

Captain Obvious

Raheem Euro wrote: »

I mean what law or regulation are you suggesting he broke?

If the answer is none then he needn't worry.

I would say they will investigate him for Endangerment and Death by Dangerous Driving. They will also likely investigate the use of force. Similar to the investigation they did after the death of Diana Harton.

Raheem Euro

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I would say they will investigate him for Endangerment and Death by Dangerous Driving. They will also likely investigate the use of force. Similar to the investigation they did after the death of Diana Harton.

He wasn't driving so dangerous driving doesn't apply. Was there a use of force? That's not in the public domain. Getting in the car is not a use of force.

Reckless Endangerment
How could the garda predict the man's response when the response was irrational. There was no possible way he could escape once the garda was in the car. It made no sense to not immediately give up. His actions were not in his own interest, counter productive and irrational. The garda could not have reasonably predicted that his own actions would lead to this off the wall reaction. That element of predictableness or foresight is necessary constituent of Recklessness.

Gsoc is completely toothless in dealing with genuine wrong doing and corruption that is rampant in AGS. I hardly think they will be putting hand cuffs on this brave officer.

Captain Obvious

Raheem Euro wrote: »

He wasn't driving so dangerous driving doesn't apply. Was there a use of force? That's not in the public domain. Getting in the car is not a use of force.

Reckless Endangerment
How could the garda predict the man's response when the response was irrational. There was no possible way he could escape once the garda was in the car. It made no sense to not immediately give up. His actions were not in his own interest, counter productive and irrational. The garda could not have reasonably predicted that his own actions would lead to this off the wall reaction. That element of predictableness or foresight is necessary constituent of Recklessness.

Gsoc is completely toothless in dealing with genuine wrong doing and corruption that is rampant in AGS. I hardly think they will be putting hand cuffs on this brave officer.

You seem to be making conclusions based on a lot of evidence not in the public domain. Do you have some in on the investigation? Can you say for sure the Garda didn't hold the steering wheel or try pull the handbrake? Can you say for sure he did not use force on the man? How did he try arrest him if not by using force? These are the things GSOC will look at.

Raheem Euro

Captain Obvious wrote: »

You seem to be making conclusions based on a lot of evidence not in the public domain. Do you have some in on the investigation? Can you say for sure the Garda didn't hold the steering wheel or try pull the handbrake? Can you say for sure he did not use force on the man? How did he try arrest him if not by using force? These are the things GSOC will look at.

Well then you obviously no more about what happened. The discussion that you jumped in to was about the gardas actions which are manifest in the media report. Some felt he was in the wrong and I disagreed. Your contribution is to alude that you have some inside knowledge he committed a crime in the car. If he did then he should obviously be worried.

Captain Obvious

Raheem Euro wrote: »

Well then you obviously no more about what happened. The discussion that you jumped in to was about the gardas actions which are manifest in the media report. Some felt he was in the wrong and I disagreed. Your contribution is to alude that you have some inside knowledge he committed a crime in the car. If he did then he should obviously be worried.

I'm going by the cctv here.


https://www.thesun.ie/news/3450291/moment-car-ploughs-vehicle-castleblayyney-monaghan-garda/


It appears from that footage the Garda was struggling with the man in the car. While I don't personally think he has done wrong, GSOC may think different.

Zorya

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I'm going by the cctv here.


https://www.thesun.ie/news/3450291/moment-car-ploughs-vehicle-castleblayyney-monaghan-garda/


It appears from that footage the Garda was struggling with the man in the car. While I don't personally think he has done wrong, GSOC may think different.

Just seen that footage The poor man who died. Seems odd the car sped up so suddenly. That woman was incredible, the one who was trying to get that guard out of the car.

Graces7

Zorya wrote: »

Just seen that footage The poor man who died. Seems odd the car sped up so suddenly. That woman was incredible, the one who was trying to get that guard out of the car.

Thank you for bringing the thread back to the terrible reality so we can focus on the tragedy not the legalism. That lovely man. And his poor family

Mad_maxx

Raheem Euro wrote: »

Being pursued by a garda (a regular occurence for professional criminals) does not excuse or entitle them to drive at speed or out of control. The driver made the decision to drive in a manner which threatened lives. His decision, his action. You couldn't expect gardai to step off pursuing criminals because potentially one of them some day could be a calous, reckless maniac who will kill people in order to try and escape. In fact they are the ones who need to be caught above all others.

Guy should be done for second degree murder and another count of attempted murder.

Captain Obvious

The man has been charged and named. He was remanded to custody.

A 34-YEAR-OLD man has appeared in court charged with dangerous driving causing the death of Stephen Marron in Castleblayney, Co Monaghan on Tuesday night.

He is also charged with endangerment of a Garda.

The accused, James Tomany of Clay Road, Keady, Co Armagh was remanded in custody to Cloverhill district court on 5 December – next week.

https://www.thejournal.ie/castleblaney-4367170-Nov2018/

Roger Hassenforder

has to be just a coincidence, but a Eugene Tomnay, a father of a James Tomnay, of Keady was arrested from preventing cops lifting his son for motoring offences early this year....

https://www.armaghi.com/news/keady-news/father-tries-to-stop-police-from-arresting-son-in-graveyard-on-christmas-eve/62868

https://m.192.com/atoz/people/tomany/eugene/bt60/1656023443/

ShaShaBear

Graces7 wrote: »

Thank you for bringing the thread back to the terrible reality so we can focus on the tragedy not the legalism. That lovely man. And his poor family

The whole town is hushed over it. I walked my kids to school this morning past the scene and couldn't help but well up. He was one of my husband's best friends and he is utterly devastated.

paw patrol

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Guy should be done for second degree murder and another count of attempted murder.

it happened in Ireland and he was charged in ireland
we have murder charges no degrees of it. It's the same charge for all.

If it wasn't intentional (and a few other bits I'm sure) then we have manslaughter charges.

Mint Sauce

Squatter wrote: »

And the GSOC will probably criticise the local Gardaí for putting lives at risk by trying to arrest him.

From the journal article...

The matter was referred to GSOC, the garda watchdog body, under Section 102 of the Garda Síochána Act 2005, which provides for independent investigation of any matter that appears to indicate that the conduct of a member of An Garda Síochána may have resulted in the death of, or serious harm to, a person.

Kinda sucks, doesn't it. Guard dragged by crim, and serious injuried in line of duty. Crim also crashes into another car, and kills an innocent bystander. But hey, lets investigate the guard, just to make his life that little bit more sh!t.

:mad:

paw patrol

Mint Sauce wrote: »

From the journal article...



Kinda sucks, doesn't it. Guard dragged by crim, and serious injuried in line of duty. Crim also crashes into another car, and kills an innocent bystander. But hey, lets investigate the guard, just to make his life that little bit more sh!t.

:mad:

it's standard procedure , nothing to get upset about.

I welcome the fact that deaths and serious incidents with gardai involved are investigated. Justice should be seen to be done.


I don't think the garda should have any blame attached but it's correct to investigate these happenings.

retalivity

Its a box ticking exercise for gsoc , the guard should face no consequences for his actions

Skylinehead

As per usual, have to close this now that there's a charge filed.