eCars get €10m to develop 150kW charging network

KCross · 28-11-2018 2:37pm #1

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/electric-car-charging-network-one-of-seven-projects-to-share-77m-climate-action-fund-888456.html

€10m for ESB eCars to develop a national vehicle charging network.

She said: “Our proposal is to install over 100 high-powered (150kW) chargers at key locations on the national road network. These chargers which will typically provide an additional driving range of 100km in six minutes.

And they are replacing the 50kW rapids... thats a surprise!

Bring it on....

ELM327 · 28-11-2018 2:49pm

€10m is nothing...
the same €10million they were supposed to get last budget too??

Will reserve any excitement until I see a map of the locations and we can see 3-4 FCP per site.

KCross · 28-11-2018 2:50pm

eCars submission for the funds had this....

Six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously

16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously

Additional high power chargers at 34 current 50kW DC locations

Upgrading over 50 x 22kW AC chargers to 50kW DC

Replacing up to 264 (528 charge points) pre-existing Pilot Grade 22kW AC chargers to next generation high reliability models

Decent plan if they deliver it in a meaningful timeframe.

Good to see that the existing ones will have redundancy built in. They finally understand the concept of single point of failure.

grogi · 28-11-2018 2:50pm

KCross wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/electric-car-charging-network-one-of-seven-projects-to-share-77m-climate-action-fund-888456.html

€10m for ESB eCars to develop a national vehicle charging network.

She said: “Our proposal is to install over 100 high-powered (150kW) chargers at key locations on the national road network. These chargers which will typically provide an additional driving range of 100km in six minutes.

And they are replacing the 50kW rapids... thats a surprise!

Bring it on....

Charger, upgrades to electricity grid, parcels... I doubt they will have 30 chargers for 10M...

KCross · 28-11-2018 2:52pm

ELM327 wrote: »

€10m is nothing...
the same €10million they were supposed to get last budget too??

Will reserve any excitement until I see a map of the locations and we can see 3-4 FCP per site.

This is nothing to do with the €10m in the budget which covers things like VRT, home charge grant, taxi grant, tolls etc.

This is "new" money from the Climate Action budget... which has €500m to hand out.

See previous post with their plan which looks decent.

The bit we dont know is the timeline.

ELM327 · 28-11-2018 2:54pm

KCross wrote: »

This is nothing to do with the €10m in the budget which covers things like VRT, home charge grant, taxi grant, tolls etc.

This is "new" money from the Climate Action budget... which has €500m to hand out.

See previous post with their plan which looks decent.

The bit we dont know is the timeline.

Sorry, I was being facetious, as the previous 10million had done next to nothing.
The plan looks decent.
But until we see specifics (locations, multiple FCP per site) I will reserve judgement.

I'm interested that they are exchanging 22kW AC for 50kW DC in places too. A strange move. Unless that is, someone has sense and realises that 150kW is the new "fast" charger and 50kW is quickly becoming a "mild fast" charger in the way that 22kW was for the Zoe.

KCross · 28-11-2018 2:54pm

grogi wrote: »

Charger, upgrades to electricity grid, parcels... I doubt they will have 30 chargers for 10M...

Bear in mind this is funding the government is providing. Thats not to say that it costs €10m. eCars can bump that up with their own funds.

They obviously believe they will own, operate and charge for this network as they have already annoucned charging for charging for 2H 2019.

KCross · 28-11-2018 2:55pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Sorry, I was being facetious, as the previous 10million had done next to nothing.
The plan looks decent.
But until we see specifics (locations, multiple FCP per site) I will reserve judgement.

I'm interested that they are exchanging 22kW AC for 50kW DC in places too. A strange move.

Thats there too, see previous post.

Timeline is the big question.

Location is "along national routes" so definitely not going to be in the Naas shopping centre!

Mike9832 · 28-11-2018 3:24pm

Nice

All they need to do is charge well for it now

Waste of time letting freloaders use it

KCross · 28-11-2018 3:38pm

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm interested that they are exchanging 22kW AC for 50kW DC in places too. A strange move.

My guess on this is that they will focus on the ones that they know already have the required grid infrastructure in place.

i.e. It will just be a case of swapping out the unit. No major digging or infrastructure upgrades required.

Just my guess.

It probably costs them as much to maintain a 50kW as a 22kW and they will be able to charge more and get more turnover for a 50kW. Business decision.

liamog · 28-11-2018 4:03pm

Were the dual socket 22kW chargers capable of supplying 2x22kW? if so replacing it with a single 50kW likely wouldn't need a grid change.

KCross · 28-11-2018 4:15pm

liamog wrote: »

Were the dual socket 22kW chargers capable of supplying 2x22kW? if so replacing it with a single 50kW likely wouldn't need a grid change.

I dont think so
1x22 or 2x11

Soarer · 28-11-2018 4:49pm

*starts saving for new Porsche Taycan*

Zenith74 · 28-11-2018 6:11pm

ELM327 wrote: »

€10m is nothing...
the same €10million they were supposed to get last budget too??

Will reserve any excitement until I see a map of the locations and we can see 3-4 FCP per site.

I'd hope the fact this fund already has the monies allocated and that eCars are now committed to running the network (no more talk of selling it off yada yada) should mean this will move quickly. Edit: Moved to the "Validation" stage now apparently (https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/climate-action/topics/climate-action-fund/call-for-applications/first-call-2018/project-assessments/Pages/default.aspx)

Here is a photo of the locations eCars announced for the new 4x150kw and 2x150kw super hubs - https://twitter.com/nextecocar/status/1055435015172034561?s=21
No guarantee of course, but it's a good sign...

FWIW I’ve started to post this kind of thing at https://reddit.com/r/evs_ireland as I think news and interesting bits of info like this are easier to see there than disappearing in a thread or Facebook group...

Zenith74 · 28-11-2018 6:15pm

KCross wrote: »

Location is "along national routes" so definitely not going to be in the Naas shopping centre!

Looking at the map eCars showed, which is admittedly pretty wooly, but it wood look like the "fast hub" in Naas shopping centre will be converted to 4-bay (whatever that means) 1x150kw & 1x50kw.

ELM327 · 28-11-2018 6:18pm

Those photos look promising @Zenith
They called out "multiple chargers per location" specifically

(I hope they rip the Naas unit out btw)

grogi · 28-11-2018 6:34pm

ELM327 wrote: »

Those photos look promising @Zenith
They called out "multiple chargers per location" specifically

(I hope they rip the Naas unit out btw)

I also love that the fact that 'charging for charging should be introduced in H1 2019'...

ED E · 28-11-2018 6:40pm

As a non EV driver what I've gleamed from keeping an eye on here and elsewhere is that eCars have been disastrous stewards of the CP network. Faults left outstanding, working marked as out of service, out of service marked as working etc.

Does extra infra mean much if eCars still aren't bothered to keep things ticking over?

rolion · 28-11-2018 7:16pm

ED E wrote: »

As a non EV driver what I've gleamed from keeping an eye on here and elsewhere is that eCars have been disastrous stewards of the CP network. Faults left outstanding, working marked as out of service, out of service marked as working etc.

Does extra infra mean much if eCars still aren't bothered to keep things ticking over?

As you may know,everytime we plug in "my" EV to charge it costs nothing...a free service,take it as it is.
I will not have the guts to call eCars and begin shouting and complaing that x y z charger(s) doesnt work properly or for a period of time.

With a service that we have to pay and they have will receive a payment,there will be a formal SLA / contract to maintain and keep them optimised at maximum parameters that satisfy the paying party while company making a profit.

Looking forward to charged charging ...

Zenith74 · 28-11-2018 7:44pm

ED E wrote: »

As a non EV driver what I've gleamed from keeping an eye on here and elsewhere is that eCars have been disastrous stewards of the CP network. Faults left outstanding, working marked as out of service, out of service marked as working etc.

Does extra infra mean much if eCars still aren't bothered to keep things ticking over?

To be fair ESB are excellent at many things they do, this is not like giving the HSE control of the network and hoping for the best. It sounds like eCars had issues with being improperly funded, they built the network well before there was demand for it so struggled to get support and for the past while there have been discussions about the government selling the network off. All in all not a recipe for a quality well supported service. It sounds like a good few of these issues are in the process of being resolved, so I’m hopeful.

I’d also say that as an EV driver, the only bad experiences I’ve had is the more recent phenomenon of queuing. Only once come across a faulty charger which eCars managed to fix over the phone. eCars has answered every call and email I’ve ever sent them. I know some people are affected more than others by being near problematic chargers, but it is certainly not all doom and gloom...

liamog · 28-11-2018 7:46pm

ED E wrote: »

As a non EV driver what I've gleamed from keeping an eye on here and elsewhere is that eCars have been disastrous stewards of the CP network. Faults left outstanding, working marked as out of service, out of service marked as working etc.

Does extra infra mean much if eCars still aren't bothered to keep things ticking over?

To give credit to ESB they became the stewards of a network that they didn't own. Does anyone have feedback on how they are running the taxi network for TfL?

Stealthirl · 29-11-2018 4:29am

KCross wrote: »

eCars submission for the funds had this....
Six high speed charging hubs on motorways capable of charging eight vehicles simultaneously

16 high speed charging hubs capable of charging four vehicles simultaneously

Additional high power chargers at 34 current 50kW DC locations

Upgrading over 50 x 22kW AC chargers to 50kW DC

Replacing up to 264 (528 charge points) pre-existing Pilot Grade 22kW AC chargers to next generation high reliability models

Decent plan if they deliver it in a meaningful timeframe.

Good to see that the existing ones will have redundancy built in. They finally understand the concept of single point of failure.

Zenith74 wrote: »

Total ESB CHAdeMO: 62
Total ESB Combo DC: 43
Total ESB Fast AC (Type-2): 51
Total ESB Type-2: 567
Total Other CHAdeMO: 33
Total Other Combo DC: 12
Total Other Fast AC (Type-2): 13
Total Other Type-2: 490

Sound like almost every current fast cp will get at least 1 additional point

Padraig Mor · 29-11-2018 9:54am

Meh, my take on this is that it means that usage charges will be higher than many expect, and this announcement is just fluff to sugar the pill - I'll believe in this new network when I actually see it.

ELM327 · 29-11-2018 10:13am

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Meh, my take on this is that it means that usage charges will be higher than many expect, and this announcement is just fluff to sugar the pill - I'll believe in this new network when I actually see it.

If they implement the charges they have in the UK I will be happy with that.

https://www.esb-evsolutions.co.uk/#our-pricing

25p/kWh + £4/month

29p/kWh and no subscription
25p/kWh and no subscription for 12 months for Taxis.

25p is approx 29c and 29p is approx 33c, I'd be happy to pay 33c/kWh if there were multiple chargers per site and the operator actually cared about uptime of the units due to monetary gains.

That would mean it would cost me (28kWh * 0.94 * 0.33) €8.68 to fill up from absolutely empty to 94% full. In reality I'd arrive with 5-15% so around €8. That €8 would get me ~180km at least so still cheaper than any fossil fuel car (no car will get 2.8l/100km)

DrPhilG · 29-11-2018 11:46am

ELM327 the difference is that in the UK they have significant competition for chargers. Here there is only the anticipated arrival of Ionity, which are CCS only so no good to the majority of Irish EVs.

In good old rip off Ireland I fully expect them to charge closer to 50c per kWh and also a hefty connection fee.

liamog · 29-11-2018 11:55am

DrPhilG wrote: »

ELM327 the difference is that in the UK they have significant competition for chargers. Here there is only the anticipated arrival of Ionity, which are CCS only so no good to the majority of Irish EVs.

In good old rip off Ireland I fully expect them to charge closer to 50c per kWh and also a hefty connection fee.

It would suck, but if they tried that Instavolt might jump the Irish sea.
At the moment you'd be insane to compete against a free service, competing against an overpriced is straightforward.

September1 · 29-11-2018 11:55am

I'm quite disappointed that this funding goes to biggest player in the market, it would be better if funds were allocated to other operators and eCars used own resources and income from future charges to fund their network.

ELM327 · 29-11-2018 12:01pm

DrPhilG wrote: »

ELM327 the difference is that in the UK they have significant competition for chargers. Here there is only the anticipated arrival of Ionity, which are CCS only so no good to the majority of Irish EVs.

In good old rip off Ireland I fully expect them to charge closer to 50c per kWh and also a hefty connection fee.

They are cheaper than other competitors in that market though.

Ionity is supporting all new EVs that you can buy now (except of course the Nissan leaf furnace) and in time that will be the major standard too.

I'd happily pay 50c/kWh for the 1-4 times a month i would use a fast charger (last time was in October) if I knew there were multiple FCP per site, 100kW supported etc

I don't think there will be a connection fee, it wasn't in the 2015 charges. To be honest if they bring in the 2015 charges without the €16 monthly fee then I'd be happy.
In 2015 they wanted to charge 30c/Minute which would be approx €9 for a full charge at 50kW and €6.60 at >100kW for an Ioniq, and it would remove the people charging to 100% full taking hours.

rolion · 29-11-2018 1:56pm

Can we drive around the country, with a fast charger in the range of not more than 100km point to point !??

ELM327 · 29-11-2018 2:08pm

rolion wrote: »

Can we drive around the country, with a fast charger in the range of not more than 100km point to point !??

We can already do that.
I'd be very surprised if there was anywhere in Ireland that was less than 100km from multiple fast chargers tbh

unkel · 29-11-2018 3:23pm

ELM327 wrote: »

We can already do that.
I'd be very surprised if there was anywhere in Ireland that was less than 100km from multiple fast chargers tbh

More than 100km you mean I presume?

Naas to Waterford is a good 140km without CCS chargers. Worse going from Dublin to the north west until recently when a few CHAdeMOs were replaced with triple heads

eCars get €10m to develop 150kW charging network

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