Zappi charge points

Mickeroo

denismc wrote: »

So here is my settings screen, which shows the grid limit in kW.
It looks like your device has the latest firmware version and mine is an older version, hence the difference.
If you are still not sure about this, give Myenergi a ring, they are usually quick to respond.

Thanks for this by the way, I e-mailed MyEnergi on Friday and they replied confirming it is indeed Amps on my charger. Must be different firmware or something alright!

I must say it's so handy coming out to a fully charged and preheated car every morning now, the three weekly trips to the local rapid charger were getting old pretty fast.

unkel

Mickeroo wrote: »

the three weekly trips to the local rapid charger were getting old pretty fast.

Yeah it's like people going to a "petrol station" to fill their car up with petrol or diesel. It's sooooooo 20th century :pac:

deegs

I got the holster with my zappi and installed under the zappi which keeps it all dry in all weather.

Can someone help me me with this....

Got the ioniq and 5m cable and all works great. My wife has bought an outlander and it has a Grammy charger and a 5m type 2 to type 1 charge cable.
The type 2 end won't connect to the zappi fully. Seems this is a safety design and there are some pics that prevent extenders?

1) is there any way to charge the outlander from my zappi... Seems it is not set up for "extension" cables etc. And how? Don't want to mix ratings or overpower the outlander

2) is it possible to charge any other type from a thethered type 2?

stimpson

deegs wrote: »

I got the holster with my zappi and installed under the zappi which keeps it all dry in all weather.

Can someone help me me with this....

Got the ioniq and 5m cable and all works great. My wife has bought an outlander and it has a Grammy charger and a 5m type 2 to type 1 charge cable.
The type 2 end won't connect to the zappi fully. Seems this is a safety design and there are some pics that prevent extenders?

1) is there any way to charge the outlander from my zappi... Seems it is not set up for "extension" cables etc. And how? Don't want to mix ratings or overpower the outlander

2) is it possible to charge any other type from a thethered type 2?

Never mind. Misunderstood the post. Answer is below.

Stealthirl

deegs wrote: »

Can someone help me me with this....

Got the ioniq and 5m cable and all works great. My wife has bought an outlander and it has a Grammy charger and a 5m type 2 to type 1 charge cable.
The type 2 end won't connect to the zappi fully. Seems this is a safety design

1) is there any way to charge the outlander from my zappi... Seems it is not set up for "extension" cables etc. And how? Don't want to mix ratings or overpower the outlander

2) is it possible to charge any other type from a thethered type 2?

You need a T2>T1 adapter cable for the Zappi, the cable that came with the outlander cant be used to extend a T2 tethered connection. I got mine from evcables.co.uk

https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/charge-cables-for-type-1-cars/type1-converter/ev-converter-cable-type-2-type-1.html

I belive Phil in electricautos.ie / theevcompany.com also sells them

deegs

Sorted, thanks folks!

Nedved85

Stealthirl wrote: »

You need a T2>T1 adapter cable for the Zappi, the cable that came with the outlander cant be used to extend a T2 tethered connection. I got mine from evcables.co.uk

https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/charge-cables-for-type-1-cars/type1-converter/ev-converter-cable-type-2-type-1.html

I belive Phil in electricautos.ie / theevcompany.com also sells them

I have that exact same one for my Leaf Gen 1 - Works fine

Johnboy1951

unkel wrote: »

I bought an Owl intuition monitor on eBay last week. Does exactly that and you can place the wireless display anywhere. Cost me GBP7 shipped

Is this what you got?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008MYXEHW

for one tenth the cost including delivery?

unkel

No mine is the basic version. It has a clamp that you clip onto the incomer in your meter box. It wirelessly transmits the signal to the display unit that you can place anywhere in the house. No apps or fancy internet stats.

Still some kit for GBP7 shipped

Johnboy1951

unkel wrote: »

No mine is the basic version. It has a clamp that you clip onto the incomer in your meter box. It wirelessly transmits the signal to the display unit that you can place anywhere in the house. No apps or fancy internet stats.

Still some kit for GBP7 shipped

I didn't come across that one when searching, only the one I posted.

Will search some more.
If you have a link that would be great.

unkel

Load of them on eBay. Put in some low bids and you're likely to pick up a cheap one like I did

Like this:

Linky


Inviting opening offer of GBP2

Usually some of them on adverts too, but not this cheap

davidod1

I've been reading here on the wiring of the Zappi and I would appreciate if someone could confirm if my understanding is correct on a few points.

I have a local electrician lined up to do an installation for me. He has done a few charger installs before but never a Zappi and never where there was a PV panel installation.

My PV system contributes power to anything drawing power in the house; be it lights or microwave or water heating. If there is a shortage then the mains takes up the slack. If there is a surplus then the hot water gets a boost or it goes back into the grid. I can see all this on the app. This may be the norm, I just don't know.

This would mean that the Zappi will be powered from either solar or mains or a combination. My understanding is that this is one of the principal features on the Zappi and the solar/mains information comes from the CT clamp/Harvi. My question, therefore, is there a definite need to fit a CT clamp for tthe Zappi?

Also, as I have an electric shower. He raised the issue of a board that will cut the power to the charger when the shower is in use. Is this needed with the Zappi.

From reading here it looks like the wiring up of the Zappi is not really any more complicated than an external socket and should be well within the capabilities of any competent electrician. Am I right on that one as well?

Thanks for any help received.

KCross

Yes, you need the CT clamp. That’s the only way the Zappi knows there is excess going to the grid and therefore divert it to the car. If you don’t have it it’s just a normal charge point that will charge at full power all the time.

And no, you don’t need the priority switch as the Zappi will know if the shower is on and will reduce its draw to ensure the fuse doesn’t blow.

Most electricians won’t know what a Zappi is or how it works. You’ll need to educate him or point him to a manual.

unkel

You're right on all of it davidod1. Zappi has built in priority switch so you don't need any additional hardware for your setup with your electric shower. Your electrician could do with a bit of researching to keep himself up to date on this stuff. It's a bit sad that amateurs like ourselves have to tell the professionals how to do their jobs...

And yes, Zappi needs to know if electricity would be going to the grid, so yes it needs a CT clamp on the main incomer from the grid.

Your main challenge is your immersion diverter ("the hot water gets a boost"). You need this set up in such a way that the house gets what it needs first (worth 18c/kWh), then the Zappi gets what it needs (worth 8c/kWh) and finally the immersion (worth just 4c/kWh). What immersion diverter do you have? If you have the Eddi (from the same company as the Harvi and the Zappi you mention) then this should all work together out of the box

Edit - LOL KCross beat me to it on most of the points

denismc

Just to add to the above, you or your electrician will have to set the grid limit on the Zappi as it's not set by default.
It is quite easy to do though, the older machines had the setting in kW but the newer ones seem to be in amps.
And if you are not 100% sure ring Myenergi and they will talk you through it.

davidod1

Thanks for those clarifications KCross and unkel.
One last point; I hope; for my own understanding. Is the CT Clamp wired back to the Zappi? If it is then it may be that I need the Harvi as the distance from the fuse board to the Zappi is about 50 meters. The Harvi might also be pushed as there is a building between the two locations as well as the distance.

Mickeroo

davidod1 wrote: »

Thanks for those clarifications KCross and unkel.
One last point; I hope; for my own understanding. Is the CT Clamp wired back to the Zappi? If it is then it may be that I need the Harvi as the distance from the fuse board to the Zappi is about 50 meters. The Harvi might also be pushed as there is a building between the two locations as well as the distance.

Yep, the CT clamp is wired to the zappi where possible.

Silent Running

davidod1 wrote: »

Thanks for those clarifications KCross and unkel.
One last point; I hope; for my own understanding. Is the CT Clamp wired back to the Zappi? If it is then it may be that I need the Harvi as the distance from the fuse board to the Zappi is about 50 meters. The Harvi might also be pushed as there is a building between the two locations as well as the distance.

The clamp can be extended a very long distance by any twisted pair wire, like Cat 5 or 6 for example. It doesn't need anything special.

unkel

davidod1 wrote: »

Is the CT Clamp wired back to the Zappi? If it is then it may be that I need the Harvi as the distance from the fuse board to the Zappi is about 50 meters. The Harvi might also be pushed as there is a building between the two locations as well as the distance.

Wireless won't cut it over that distance. As Silent Running said, you need to use standard network cable, you can easily and fairly cheaply get a long roll (they go up to hundreds of meters). You just "split" the cable in two tying the 4 wires from two of the pairs all together and the 4 wires from other two pairs together. Network cable is used because it doesn't pick up any interference from other cables / equipment

I've the same issue myself wiring my new battery inverter (which works on the same principle as the Zappi), but not quite a 50m run

Johnboy1951

unkel wrote: »

Wireless won't cut it over that distance. As Silent Running said, you need to use standard network cable, you can easily and fairly cheaply get a long roll (they go up to hundreds of meters). You just "split" the cable in two tying the 4 wires from two of the pairs all together and the 4 wires from other two pairs together. Network cable is used because it doesn't pick up any interference from other cables / equipment

I've the same issue myself wiring my new battery inverter (which works on the same principle as the Zappi), but not quite a 50m run

Would it not provide better protection from interference to connect one wire from each pair together and the second wires from each together?

Just wondering .....

davidod1

Thanks for all that. Great to get all that good and sound technical help. Very much appreciated.

davidod1

unkel wrote: »

What immersion diverter do you have? If you have the Eddi (from the same company as the Harvi and the Zappi you mention) then this should all work together out of the box

Sorry, I forgot to come back re the immersion diverter. It's a Powerdiverter Model 1C. UK Made.

Anyway, it looks like I'll be using two wired CT Clamps, one on the line from the fusebox to the meter and the other from the PV to the fusebox; presumably.

stimpson

Just to clarify - you will need 2 clamps if you have PV. The Zappi comes with one, so you will need to order a second. One is to measure the power drawn from the mains, and the other is to measure the power drawn from the PV panels. The Zappi then controls how your car is charged based on these readings and your charge mode.

The manual is up here and worth reading so you can advise your spark - https://myenergi.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/zappi-manual-v1.2.pdf

KCross

davidod1 wrote: »

Is the CT Clamp wired back to the Zappi? If it is then it may be that I need the Harvi as the distance from the fuse board to the Zappi is about 50 meters. The Harvi might also be pushed as there is a building between the two locations as well as the distance.

In nearly all cases wired is better than wireless but you have to balance that with how difficult it is to get the wires in. Only you will be able to tell whether wired is viable in your case.

As an alternative you could also put the CT clamp in your meter box rather than the consumer unit. Is that per chance closer to the Zappi?

Silent Running wrote: »

The clamp can be extended a very long distance by any twisted pair wire, like Cat 5 or 6 for example. It doesn't need anything special.

unkel wrote: »

Wireless won't cut it over that distance. As Silent Running said, you need to use standard network cable, you can easily and fairly cheaply get a long roll (they go up to hundreds of meters). You just "split" the cable in two tying the 4 wires from two of the pairs all together and the 4 wires from other two pairs together. Network cable is used because it doesn't pick up any interference from other cables / equipment

I've the same issue myself wiring my new battery inverter (which works on the same principle as the Zappi), but not quite a 50m run

As I understand it, if you wire it it has to be screened cable not your bog standard Cat 5e cable. Screened cable is much more expensive. The 5m cable that comes with the CT Clamp is screened and if you extend it you need to use screened as well.

If you dont use screened cable you run the risk of interference between the mains cable going to the Zappi and the CT cable which, presumably, will be running alongside each other.

You dont want interference to cause the Zappi to be getting bad data from the CT Clamp. Its an integral part of how Zappi works so you need it accurate/reliable.

stimpson

KCross wrote: »

As I understand it, if you wire it it has to be screened cable not your bog standard Cat 5e cable. Screened cable is much more expensive. The 5m cable that comes with the CT Clamp is screened and if you extend it you need to use screened as well.

If you dont use screened cable you run the risk of interference between the mains cable going to the Zappi and the CT cable which, presumably, will be running alongside each other.

You dont want interference to cause the Zappi to be getting bad data from the CT Clamp. Its an important integration, not a nice-to-have piece of kit.

The manual says:

If there is a need to extend the sensor cable, twisted-pair cable like CAT5 or telephone cable must be used. DO NOT use mains
cable, bell wire or speaker cable. It is important to use only twisted-pair cable to maintain signal integrity. The cable can be
extended up to 100m.

KCross

This is what I got from Zappi support as I specifically asked about extending it...

The CT clamps come with 5 meters of cable connected and can be extended up to 100 meters with a Cat5 or Cat6 cable or good quality twisted pair cable
There should not be a problem with the Ct cables in the same run as the live feed as the CT cable is screened and if using Cat5 or Cat6 cable that is screened also

Running power cables next to network cables is generally not recommended. You can take the chance and try to keep them apart. I'd get screened cable.

unkel

I'll use the standard cat5 cable that I have a 20m of lying around somewhere. I'd say 99% chance it will be fine

KCross

unkel wrote: »

I'll use the standard cat5 cable that I have a 20m of lying around somewhere. I'd say 99% chance it will be fine

How will you know?
When your consumer board melts?!

They didnt screen the CT cable that comes out of the box for the crack.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

How will you know?
When your consumer board melts?!

:rolleyes:

If the behaviour of the unit is erratic, it could be a sign of interference, but I'd say that's highly unlikely

The previous owner of my inverter used standard cat 5 cable, it worked fine for him

Could be different for a Zappi, but probably only in very challenging circumstances. Myenergi even sell wireless clamps (also way overpriced as all their other hardware), if they work then basic cat 5 cable will certainly work

I've tried wireless clamps from an Owl intuition monitor I picked up for GBP7 in both my outside meter box and on the AC output of my solar inverter and both work fine too. I'd bet money that cat 5 wired will be fine too.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

If the behaviour of the unit is erratic, it could be a sign of interference, but I'd say that's highly unlikely


The previous owner of my inverter used standard cat 5 cable, it worked fine for him

You're taking the "it works for me so it will work for everyone" approach.

Thats bad advice, particularly when it comes to "high powered" electrics. A 3kW inverter isnt that relevant if it has an issue. A 7kW charger is a significant load to have malfunction.

unkel wrote: »

Could be different for a Zappi, but probably only in very challenging circumstances. Myenergi even sell wireless clamps (also way overpriced as all their other hardware), if they work then basic cat 5 cable will certainly work

I dont get your point here. Because they sell a wireless version then unscreened cable is OK.... there is no connection between those two things. I'm baffled by that one.

unkel wrote: »

I've tried wireless clamps from an Owl intuition monitor I picked up for GBP7 in both my outside meter box and on the AC output of my solar inverter and both work fine too. I'd bet money that cat 5 wired will be fine too.

Sure I have several wireless clamps myself. What does that prove in the case of the Zappi?



unscreened cat5 might work perfectly for you or any number of people but what about the one time it doesnt work for someone. Safety systems are in place for a reason, you shouldnt be advising a dodgy install.

e.g. If someone has the cat5e cable lying on top of a bunch of live wires (not just one in your case) what happens then. Just because it works for you or 99% of cases doesnt mean you should condone people trying that.

The reason I asked myenergi the question is because my RECI electrician said it to me, so he was recommending it and he asked that I confirm with myenergi and they duly confirmed that it is a screened clamp and should be extended with screened cable.

You should take this stuff more seriously. I know you like your DIY electrics but seriously its not OK to be suggesting flouting their advice.