Scrapping Daylight Saving time

plodder

Don't know if there's been a thread already, but there is a consultation on this which closes soon. Apparently, the EU has the power to abolish DST if that is the collective decision of its member states. If it decides to abolish, then each country can decide what timezone they want to be in. So, the choice for us would be keeping either Winter time or Summer time permanently.

If we switched to Summer time, then sunrise in the middle of Winter would be at 9:37am on the east coast and 9:50am on the West. It's swings and roundabouts obviously as you would have an extra hour of daylight in the afternoon. But, personally I would prefer to keep the status-quo and would choose Winter time over Summer time if I had to choose.

Consultation here (closes on Friday):

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/Consultation_on_Seasonal_Clock_Changes

Hurrache

Why would you chose winter time over summer and lose all those evening daylight hours for rides and other sport?

magicbastarder

common wisdom seems to accept that there will be fewer deaths on the roads if we stick to summer time.
that said, it'll be much easier to point to people whose lives were lost in morning RTAs than it will be to people whose lives weren't lost in evening RTAs.

plodder

Hurrache wrote: »

Why would you chose winter time over summer and lose all those evening daylight hours for rides and other sport?

I guess it boils down to whether you are a morning person or an evening/afternoon one.

How many is "all those" anyway? Part of my problem with this whole thing is the poor quality of the information on the consultation. As far as I understand it DST only matters for some period of time in Spring and Autumn. Obviously, in the middle of Summer you have all the daylight you want anyway, and in Winter it's very limited at both ends of the day.

On accident stats, I understand there is a spike around the time the clocks change, but if accident rates are related to the level of darkness, then you would expect a spike like that, but it doesn't prove that the overall rate will be any different (not certain of this point though).

magicbastarder

the logic is that you're better having the darkness in the morning, when motorists are (theoretically) well rested and more alert, and brighter evenings when they've done a day's work and are driving home on autopilot.
summer time was originally introduced for the benefit of farmers, IIRC; who would generally be up earlier than the rest of the population. britain even had double daylight savings time during WWII.

Hurrache

Apart from the road safety issue, my main concern is from a recreational point of view. Think of all the evenings you enjoy out and about coming into, and leaving summer.

At the end of the summer into September it starts getting dark not long after 8. If you want to keep winter hours that'll be 7, you get home from work say an average of 6pm, and by the time you get ready and back out again your daylight is gone. You're buying into that forever.

Wishbone Ash

Hurrache wrote: »

Why would you chose winter time over summer and lose all those evening daylight hours for rides and other sport?

I'd go for winter time as it is the real time. Summer time is false as it's an hour ahead of what it should be. Darkness doesn't bother me or limit my cycles.

magicbastarder

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I'd go for winter time as it is the real time.

sure us dubs are 25 minutes off 'real time' anyway.

plodder

Well if we're forced to change, maybe we should trial it one way one year, the other way the next year, and then decide after that. We'll have some real data to help decide rather than unproven assumptions.

seamus

plodder wrote: »

On accident stats, I understand there is a spike around the time the clocks change, but if accident rates are related to the level of darkness, then you would expect a spike like that, but it doesn't prove that the overall rate will be any different (not certain of this point though).

IIRC (don't have the stats to hand), the stats show a general correlation between darkness and incidents, but when taken as a whole the evening commute is statistically more dangerous than the morning one.

Although it might seem like common sense to think that in the morning drivers will be sleepy and slow to react, in reality it's the evening commute where drivers are more likely to be tired and distracted; the events of the day swirling in their head.

Thus in terms of DST and road safety, if the option is between light in the morning or light in the evening, then it makes sense to leave the light in the evening where it's needed most.

Hurrache

I sound like a hippy here but "real time" is just a construct, maaann. It can be anything we want it.

magicbastarder

plodder wrote: »

Well if we're forced to change, maybe we should trial it one way one year, the other way the next year, and then decide after that. We'll have some real data to help decide rather than unproven assumptions.

this sounds like chaos.
reminds me of the fuss we had in work a few years ago when the government in egypt decided - with about three days notice - that they weren't going to change their clocks. microsoft had to issue an emergency patch which would prevent egyptian computers from changing time by an hour on the expected date.

seamus

Hurrache wrote: »

I sound like a hippy here but "real time" is just a construct, maaann. It can be anything we want it.

This is why I don't buy the "it was for the farmers" explanation. The cows don't know what time it is. If the cows got up in the pitch black today, they're going to get up in the pitch black tomorrow, they're not going to have a lie in because the clocks went back

plodder

magicbastarder wrote: »

this sounds like chaos.
reminds me of the fuss we had in work a few years ago when the government in egypt decided - with about three days notice - that they weren't going to change their clocks. microsoft had to issue an emergency patch which would prevent egyptian computers from changing time by an hour on the expected date.

Changing the clocks once per year would be chaos (potentially for two years), but twice per year as we do now isn't?

eeeee

Summer time all the way. Evening doing things time please

Plastik

I'll take summer time, midweek club league racing, and long spins in the daylight of a summer's evening thanks.

Eamonnator

magicbastarder wrote: »

sure us dubs are 25 minutes off 'real time' anyway.

And those in Clifden are 40 minutes off.

07Lapierre

Split the difference.whrn the clock is due to go forward for summertime..just move it 30 minutes ahead and leave it there.

tomasrojo

seamus wrote: »

This is why I don't buy the "it was for the farmers" explanation. The cows don't know what time it is. If the cows got up in the pitch black today, they're going to get up in the pitch black tomorrow, they're not going to have a lie in because the clocks went back

Reminds me of the probably apocryphal story about the farmer in the Midwest who wrote to implore Congress not to pass a Daylight Saving Time bill, adding an hour of light to summer evenings, as, while it was all very well for city folk, his crops couldn't take another hour of strong sunlight.

Tar.Aldarion

MUch prefer summer time personally, an extra hour of light in the evening would be much better for actually doing things. It's fairly miserable atm.

tomasrojo

There's something about DST and farmers here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-daylight-saving-time/2015/03/06/970092d4-c2c1-11e4-9271-610273846239_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a614eab8af05

Apparently the cows actually really don't like it, but it's the sudden change in the timing of the activities of the farmers that bothers them.

Wishbone Ash

seamus wrote: »

This is why I don't buy the "it was for the farmers" explanation. The cows don't know what time it is. If the cows got up in the pitch black today, they're going to get up in the pitch black tomorrow, they're not going to have a lie in because the clocks went back

Farming is not just confined to dairying and livestock. There's tillage also. It's a lot easier to plough, rotovate, plant, spray, harvest, in daylight.

nilhg

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Farming is not just confined to dairying and livestock. There's tillage also. It's a lot easier to plough, rotovate, plant, spray, harvest, in daylight.

Absolutely, I'll vouch for that

Also much easier to organise any sort of club activities with summertime, I don't think most of the (inter)club leagues would be possible without it, unless we moved to 4AM starts in the morning, the roads would be quiet anyway:eek:

atilladehun

07Lapierre wrote: »

Split the difference.whrn the clock is due to go forward for summertime..just move it 30 minutes ahead and leave it there.

Wait, what?! Would that make our news start at 6 and their news start at half 6?

RobertFoster

atilladehun wrote: »

Wait, what?! Would that make our news start at 6 and their news start at half 6?

Won't somebody please think of the Angelus!

magicbastarder

atilladehun wrote: »

Wait, what?! Would that make our news start at 6 and their news start at half 6?

if you think that's bad, check out what the aussies have done.



some of their zones differ by multiples or a quarter hour, and some do daylight savings, but not all.

https://www.timeanddate.com/time/australia/time-zones-background.html

Macy0161

Thanks for the reminder, but a vote for summer time here. I might at least see some daylight during the working week! But definitely will extend the opportunities for family activities that are hampered by winter time, where niether of us are home enough for a big chunk of the year.

plodder

07Lapierre wrote: »

Split the difference.whrn the clock is due to go forward for summertime..just move it 30 minutes ahead and leave it there.

From 1880 to 1916, Dublin Mean time was 25 minutes behind GMT, according to wikipedia.

It doesn't say what they used in Cork, but I imagine it had to be 27 minutes or something :rolleyes:

Macy0161

plodder wrote: »

It doesn't say what they used in Cork, but I imagine it had to be 27 minutes or something :rolleyes:

That reminds me to comment on the survey monkey question about a time difference with the North - I wonder how many "they're 50 years behind as it is" type comments they've got? I know I was tempted before my sensible answer of it doesn't matter, we trade with loads of different time zones already!

greenwaving

Macy0161 wrote: »

That reminds me to comment on the survey monkey question about a time difference with the North - I wonder how many "they're 50 years behind as it is" type comments they've got? I know I was tempted before my sensible answer of it doesn't matter, we trade with loads of different time zones already!

Please don't put that it doesn't matter. It does. For all those who work on one side and live on the other. For the children who attend school/crèche on one side and live on the other. Trade will adapt to the different time zones. But general day-to-day living will become a lot harder to manage for those living on both sides. Maybe they should restrict the commentary on this to those who will live with and understand the impact.

CrowdedHouse

If the UK doesn't change the same as us (probably wont for spite!) a couple of my radio controlled clocks will be useless.