Scrapping Daylight Saving time

plodder

Zzippy wrote: »

When I go skiing I like to be up early and get the empty, fresh-groomed pistes too. But you're talking about a tiny minority of people - the governments in those countries are not going to base their decision on the wishes of a few skiers.

Skiing wasn't uppermost on my list when I raised the issue first, but what I think it shows is that there are a myriad of different concerns that people have, and nobody can really speak for anyone but themselves.

CramCycle

TBH, other than work and school, I don't really give a sh1t what time the clock says. It would be handy if work changed their expected start time with the clocks so my body clock did not notice, other than that, I actually don't care.

magicbastarder

i'm lucky; can work from home whenever i want. my boss is german, so i typically log on at about 8 or 8:30am if i'm working from home, or earlier if i go into the office. but he doesn't give two hoots about when i log on or log off, as long as i get the work done.

skallywag

Zzippy wrote: »

When I go skiing I like to be up early and get the empty, fresh-groomed pistes too. But you're talking about a tiny minority of people - the governments in those countries are not going to base their decision on the wishes of a few skiers.

That's a fair point, and I guess I'm seeing it from my own perspective of course, and those who I generally associate with.

All the same, the general feeling you get in Switzerland, Austria, etc. through media discussion etc. is that winter time would be picked if a choice had to be made, and the winter sport topic is among the reasons that get mentioned. There are of course other broader reasons, e.g. weather. It's common to get very heavy snow, and sticking to summer time would mean dealing with it in combination with pitch black darkness when kids are going to school etc. I would be very confident that the likes of these countries will pick to stay on winter time.

Coming back to cycling (-: I myself would personally prefer to stick on winter time as well, would be more into going out in the morning than late in the evening.

In general, if we ended up with a situation where the Alpine countries stayed on winter time and, say, Germany went the other way, then you would be looking at a ridiculous situation for those living / working on the border regions.

Hurrache

American manages seamlessly with 4 contiguous time zones.

magicbastarder

Government set to reject EU proposal to end daylight savings time

The Government is set to oppose an EU proposal to end daylight savings time because it could mean Northern Ireland and the Republic being in different time zones, among other concerns.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-set-to-reject-eu-proposal-to-end-daylight-savings-time-1.3958592

plodder

Personally, I agree with the government's decision. Though the Brexit concern could just mean the ultimate decision is postponed until that is finally decided one way or the other. But my view as I've said before is if DST is dropped, we would probably end up trying Summer time, as some people seem to want. We might then discover (as we did before) that we don't like that in Winter, and we would then switch to Winter time, which would be worse than what we have now for the people who wanted to get rid of DST, ie. same as now in Winter but less daylight in the evenings in Spring and Autumn.

MyDarkArts

I can see the logic in not being on a different time zone to the UK for half the year. But the DST concept is just too nonsensical to justify that as a reason why it shouldn't be abandoned immediately.

magicbastarder wrote: »

Government set to reject EU proposal to end daylight savings time

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-set-to-reject-eu-proposal-to-end-daylight-savings-time-1.3958592

Franz Von Peppercorn II

MyDarkArts wrote: »

I can see the logic in not being on a different time zone go the UK for half the year. But the DST concept is just too nonsensical to justify that as a reason why it shouldn't be abandoned immediately.

Nobody has explained any sane reason why DST is a problem. In fact it’s a solution: not having dark mornings in winter while also having longer evenings in summer.

MyDarkArts

You have to change the clocks twice a year. That is the primary sane reason that DST is a problem.

The length of sunlight in winter or summer doesn't change, much as we might like it to. So pick a measurement and use it consistently, the tilt of the earth and the amount of time it takes to orbit the Sun doesn't vary based on the whims of humanity.

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Nobody has explained any sane reason why DST is a problem. In fact it’s a solution: not having dark mornings in winter while also having longer evenings in summer.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

MyDarkArts wrote: »

You have to change the clocks twice a year. That is the primary sane reason that DST is a problem.

That’s fcuk all of a problem. It wasn’t a problem when devices didn’t do this for you and it’s definitely not a problem now, when they do.

The length of sunlight in winter or summer doesn't change, much as we might like it to. So pick a measurement and use it consistently, the tilt of the earth and the amount of time it takes to orbit the Sun doesn't vary based on the whims of humanity.

We could use a sun dial perhaps, because all clock measurements are lies. We are not living in Greenwich, and even if we were the equation of time means that the clocks would be out of kilter with the real time most of the year.

So why not lie conveniently by getting brighter mornings in summer and brighter evenings in summer?

(Because a few lazy malcontents who don’t like losing an hours sleep or “adjusting their clocks” ,which you don’t actually have to do, dominated a badly publicised poll on the EU website).

magicbastarder

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

all clock measurements are lies

in the grand scheme of 'weird stuff i've read on this forum'...

i guess the issue is that we change the clocks without changing the deeply ingrained schedules of institutions which live by those clocks. so we change the effective time at which the sun rises and sets without being given the chance to adjust our daily schedule accordingly, for most people. and it's easier (and more sensible anyway) to fix the clocks back to 'static' than to expect those institutions to change to a dynamic reading of the time.

i've had a few beers, and a whiskey. opinion is subject to change with sobriety (just as we expect the clocks to change with day length, i guess)

Juan More Time

The abolition of daylight savings time is yet another edict...Ooops European directive issued by unelected nameless faceless bureaucrats ...Tis no wonder the English electorate voted overwhelmingly to leave the European union...:pac:

magicbastarder

An edict? We must have different ideas what the word means, given that the respective governments are the ones who actually make the decision whether to proceed.

Fian

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

That’s fcuk all of a problem. It wasn’t a problem when devices didn’t do this for you and it’s definitely not a problem now, when they do.



We could use a sun dial perhaps, because all clock measurements are lies. We are not living in Greenwich, and even if we were the equation of time means that the clocks would be out of kilter with the real time most of the year.

So why not lie conveniently by getting brighter mornings in summer and brighter evenings in summer?

(Because a few lazy malcontents who don’t like losing an hours sleep or “adjusting their clocks” ,which you don’t actually have to do, dominated a badly publicised poll on the EU website).

I want to remain on summer time year round. it has nothing to do with laziness, I am required to be in my office between 9-6, butoften end up having to stay a bit longer than that. I don't have the option of getting up earlier so that I can finish earlier and get home earlier. I would prefer darker mornings and brighter evenings all year round. I hate that the whole of the sunlit portion of the day is basically taken up in my office during the winter, apart from maybe a bit of light in the morning on my way in. I would far rather have some of that sunlight on my way home or at home.

Monday to Friday my time starts at around 6 each day, until then I am on my employer's time. I would rather push as much daylight as possible into "my time" instead of work time. In fact on a purely personal basis I would have no issue with the sun rising at 10 if it meant more sunlight in the evenings. Obviously that isn't going to happen but I really hope that this opposition to the directive does not succeed.

Most of the working population are on the same or similar schedules. Leaving work in teh dark is depressing.

cjt156

Dublin Time FTW!

I hadn't realised DST was only introduced in 1916. And Dublin Time abolished with it.

Long read on RTE website here.

Beasty

I think we should split the difference. Stay half way between the UK and Europe....

:pac:

g6fdyotp5nj2l7

Fian wrote:

Most of the working population are on the same or similar schedules. Leaving work in teh dark is depressing.

It will still be dark when you leave work at 6 pm

Chips Lovell

I don't see the issue with the UK being on different time. There's loads of countries where there is a time change at the border, Spain/Portugal for instance, and the world doesn't end.

magicbastarder

and other countries which don't change at all; i deal with some lads in ghana in work, and they're on the same time as us during the winter but not the summer. their night and day length changes so little there's no sense in a clock change.

buffalo

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I don't see the issue with the UK being on different time. There's loads of countries where there is a time change at the border, Spain/Portugal for instance, and the world doesn't end.

Or NI could be on the same time as us, if the DUP allow it. :pac:

magicbastarder

You can't beat the old 'you are now entering northern Ireland, please set your clocks back 20 years' joke.

Fian

Jaiden Screeching Revolt wrote: »

It will still be dark when you leave work at 6 pm

for a shorter period of the year.

Unfortunately there is limited daylight during the depths of winter, but if 6 O'clock comes an hour "earlier" it helps. 2 hours would be even better but even though that would suit me I realise that the clock is not going to be arranged around my personal preferences!

the point i was making, in response to the post i quoted, is that it is not just laziness that motivates people to want to stick on summer time, there are valid reasons for it, although they do ultimately come down to personal preferences.

plodder

Fian wrote: »

I want to remain on summer time year round. it has nothing to do with laziness, I am required to be in my office between 9-6, butoften end up having to stay a bit longer than that. I don't have the option of getting up earlier so that I can finish earlier and get home earlier. I would prefer darker mornings and brighter evenings all year round. I hate that the whole of the sunlit portion of the day is basically taken up in my office during the winter, apart from maybe a bit of light in the morning on my way in. I would far rather have some of that sunlight on my way home or at home.

Monday to Friday my time starts at around 6 each day, until then I am on my employer's time. I would rather push as much daylight as possible into "my time" instead of work time. In fact on a purely personal basis I would have no issue with the sun rising at 10 if it meant more sunlight in the evenings. Obviously that isn't going to happen but I really hope that this opposition to the directive does not succeed.

Most of the working population are on the same or similar schedules. Leaving work in teh dark is depressing.

I don't take issue with any of your post except for the last few sentences. You really can't speak for anyone else. While nobody likes dark evenings, some people find it much harder to get going in the morning when it's dark. That was the experience in Portugal when they tried to switch to CET, and it was the same here in the few years we tried Summer time at the end of the 60's.

I suggested this before and I mean it seriously. If we're forced into doing this, we should actually try it out on two successive years, Summer time only one year, and Winter time the other. Then have a properly publicised vote on it - not like the farce organised by the EU. After two years, anyone who really cares about it will vote and you'll get the option that most people prefer and that will be it done and dusted (but it might not be what you want).

Other countries have been faffing around with time zone changes for years (eg Russia) at considerable economic cost. The only rational way to deal with it is through an informed democratic choice imho.

Better again would be for the EU to allow each country to decide whether they want DST or not, but if they have DST then the dates would be the same everywhere in the EU. It does cause a lot of confusion between here and the US where they change differently, and I remember when the continent changed on different dates to UK/Ireland.

g6fdyotp5nj2l7

Is it safe to leave the best interest of the country commercially etc. in the hands of the people though ? Look across the water at Brexit.

MyDarkArts

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

(Because a few lazy malcontents who don’t like losing an hours sleep or “adjusting their clocks” ,which you don’t actually have to do, dominated a badly publicised poll on the EU website).

I've always aspired to be described as a lazy malcontent.