M50 - apalling gridlock

OldMrBrennan83

amcalester wrote: »

Just pointing out that with less cars there’ll be less war (your words, whether you remember them or not), not exactly the dystopian future you’ve foretold.

Everyone force marched to a bus, sounds brilliant.

tom1ie

Patww79 wrote: »

Everyone force marched to a bus, sounds brilliant.

Tis the future, until we get 100% automated personal vehicles.

OldMrBrennan83

tom1ie wrote: »

Tis the future, until we get 100% automated personal vehicles.

And a nutrition pill as soon as we step on. Can't have any expression at all.

That God I'll be dead by then, not sure if the planet would be worth saving at that stage either.

amcalester

Patww79 wrote: »

Everyone force marched to a bus, sounds brilliant.

Or worse, a Dublin Bike station.

tom1ie

Patww79 wrote: »

And a nutrition pill as soon as we step on. Can't have any expression at all.

That God I'll be dead by then, not sure if the planet would be worth saving at that stage either.

Nah this'll be on the colony on mars cause we ****ed up earth by constantly widening motorways.

OldMrBrennan83

amcalester wrote: »

Or worse, a Dublin Bike station.

Was watching a lad trying to load his briefcase, coat, and other belongings into the basket of one of those at the station outside the NCH the other night. If there is anything less dignified looking than one of those things then I've yet to see it.

magicbastarder

Patww79 wrote: »

And a nutrition pill as soon as we step on. Can't have any expression at all.

That God I'll be dead by then, not sure if the planet would be worth saving at that stage either.

god bless boards. i come back after a few hours away from the keyboard to this.

Spanish Eyes

magicbastarder wrote: »

god bless boards. i come back after a few hours away from the keyboard to this.

Ha ha, hilarious. How do you do it :eek:

wazzer1

....... wrote: »

The M50 is not fit for purpose - end of.

Morning rush hour seems to go from 6am til 10am and evening from 3pm til 7pm. Ive even been caught gridlocked on it at 8pm on a Sunday evening recently.

It cannot even be used as a proper motorway as there is far too much traffic on it. All lanes are used as driving lanes during whats become 8 hours of rush hour in recent years.

Its simply not big enough to cater for the volume of traffic on it. Add in poorly designed entrance/exit ramps with nonsensical decisions about traffic flow in the areas surrounding those exit ramps and its a disaster. What I mean by that is best illustrated by example. Recently some fool decided the North bound exit ramp at Firhouse should now be stop/go traffic light controlled rather than freeflow, the result is queues of traffic every evening that end up blocking the driving lane on the M50 before that exit. Another disasterous decision has been the appallingly bad redesign of the road system in Knocklyon leading to a queue of traffic that cant exit the M50 in a timely manner anymore both North and South so causes more congestion.

There is no joined up thinking for infrastructure in this country, decisions are made with no regard as to the effects on traffic flow up or downstream and roads are built like a firefighting exercise rather than a long term plan.

Add in the propensity for councils to grant planning for thousands of houses with no thought to the extra traffic they will bring and you get what we have - a crappy so called motorway.

Why not build another M50 on top of the M50? Remove the meridian and allow all lower deck traffic to travel South and all upper deck to travel North. In a stroke you would more than double the capacity of the road without having to use up more land for it. Elevated highways work fine in other countries.

In a stroke? Have you seen how long the n7 is taking 😂😂

ozzy jr

An idea for reducing the traffic at rush hour....

Children are only allowed go to the school that they live closest too. We can all see the difference to traffic in the summer when the schools are closed.

Kids walking to school instead of being driven should help a bit.

AndrewJRenko

Patww79 wrote: »

Everyone force marched to a bus, sounds brilliant.

Again, just for the record, there is no proposal that involves anyone being forced to use public transport or a bike. Moving very slightly away from the current model of massive public subsidies to motordom is not 'forced public transport'.

Patww79 wrote: »

That God I'll be dead by then, not sure if the planet would be worth saving at that stage either.

Have you tried speaking to any of the next generation, perhaps your children or nieces or nephews to see if they share your contempt for the world they will need to live in.

Patww79 wrote: »

Was watching a lad trying to load his briefcase, coat, and other belongings into the basket of one of those at the station outside the NCH the other night. If there is anything less dignified looking than one of those things then I've yet to see it.

I'd guess that some of the people who do the 2m-3m journeys each year on Dublin BIkes might disagree with you. Just think about how much space that has created on the road by eliminating car journeys.

ozzy jr wrote: »

An idea for reducing the traffic at rush hour....

Children are only allowed go to the school that they live closest too. We can all see the difference to traffic in the summer when the schools are closed.

Kids walking to school instead of being driven should help a bit.

Certainly, there is a huge issue with school traffic, as we all see the big difference once the schools close. We really do need to go back to kids biking and bussing to school as the default.

magicbastarder

ozzy jr wrote: »

An idea for reducing the traffic at rush hour....

Children are only allowed go to the school that they live closest too.

and adults are only allowed get jobs in the factory they live closest to.

i suspect the school run has little to do with the traffic on the M50.

Charles Babbage

We need tolls on all of the M50 that are higher in peak periods and lower or even free at quiet times.
We also need Park and ride facilities and express buses on the M50 whose fee is less than above toll, the toll could be used to subsidise these if required.

LeinsterDub

Patww79 wrote: »

Was watching a lad trying to load his briefcase, coat, and other belongings into the basket of one of those at the station outside the NCH the other night. If there is anything less dignified looking than one of those things then I've yet to see it.

I'd imagine it's pretty undignified to be forced out of your home due to climate change or to lie dying from cancer caused by inactivity.

Johnnyhpipe

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I'd imagine it's pretty undignified to be forced out of your home due to climate change or to lie dying from cancer caused by inactivity.

WTF?!

monument

Patww79 wrote: »

And a nutrition pill as soon as we step on. Can't have any expression at all.

That God I'll be dead by then, not sure if the planet would be worth saving at that stage either.

Patww79 wrote: »

Everyone force marched to a bus, sounds brilliant.

Patww79 wrote: »

Never mind the "must cycle everywhere" crew.

Improve your posting style. Sound bits and snapping at people is not discussion.

Nobody is forcing anybody into buses and there's no "must cycle everywhere" crew -- at best that's stuff of straw-man arguments.

-- moderator

RayCun

Tell me how wrote: »

Have a think about this. It appears it is challenging for some to understand.

Maybe, just maybe, those currently driving to Dublin would rather driver a shorter distance in less congested road than they are currently driving to a more local business?

Is that impossible to consider? Take your time.

As I said earlier, there is nowhere in Ireland that as many people can get to in an hour as Dublin city centre. If you are a company looking for the best choice of employees, and don't need space for manufacturing, then the city centre is where you need to be.

Lots of people travel from outside the M50 into Dublin. _But not from one location outside the M50_. If you live in Maynooth then yeah, a workplace in Maynooth would be great. If you live in Wicklow or Louth or Dublin then Maynooth is much harder to get to.

Lackey

I had to drive from the south east up the N11 towards the M50 this morning, at one point I was in 2nd gear undertaking people in the ‘fast’ (not a thing) lane.
Before anyone jumps down my throat my only option would have been to come to a complete stop to allow them to be ahead of me.

Public transport is a problem, even if you book online you are not guaranteed a seat, and the driver passes the stop (not their fault) leaving you waiting an hour or more for the next one.
Then there’s the pleasure of sitting in front of junkie Jim shooting up behind me, and paying through the nose for the privilege.

Macy0161

Most of the issues in the Dublin commuter counties are related to the lack of public transport rather than distance. In the likes of London, they'd be prime spots/ distance due to (despite decades of Tory Government running down) rail links. More jobs outside of Dublin, in commuter counties at least, is as fanciful (imo) a solution, as just building more and more roads to address the issue.

Long Term, rail is the answer. Short term buses have to be a big part of the solution of the longer commutes. The success of the likes of Wexford Bus, Matthews etc show there is demand if there is capacity and the service. Then much more priority for Bikes and Buses within the M50.

McCrack

Lackey wrote: »

I had to drive from the south east up the N11 towards the M50 this morning, at one point I was in 2nd gear undertaking people in the ‘fast’ (not a thing) lane.
Before anyone jumps down my throat my only option would have been to come to a complete stop to allow them to be ahead of me.

Public transport is a problem, even if you book online you are not guaranteed a seat, and the driver passes the stop (not their fault) leaving you waiting an hour or more for the next one.
Then there’s the pleasure of sitting in front of junkie Jim shooting up behind me, and paying through the nose for the privilege.

No such thing as "undertaking" either.. Only the lads in black suits that drive hearses do that.

It's overtaking on the left..and I do it myself when appropriate.. The lane of least resistance which can usually be the left lane whilst a queue of sheep sit in the overtaking lane

appledrop

I thought it couldn't get any worse. Then I had to face this morning's traffic southbound on M50:eek:

Enough is enough. Bring in the fines.

magicbastarder

appledrop wrote: »

Enough is enough. Bring in the fines.

if you want to reduce accidents, you should be fining people for driving too close to the car in front.
but if you get people to drive sensibly, you'll considerably reduce the amount of traffic the M50 is holding.
the accidents are not a cause, they're a symptom. the M50 is carrying too much traffic.

incentsitive

We need to stop letting TD's etc interfere in our development of this country. There was a shinner last week on the radio complaining about an apartment development in Smithfield. Shane Ross opposing bus connects. The St. Annes Park farce.
At what stage are we going to say "you lot need to f off and stop sticking your oar into this stuff". Development needs to be beyond and above the remit of political interference.
Things like Metrolink, BusConnects, planning, etc have a public consultation for a reason. This doesn't mean that some Biddy shouldn't go to it but instead should tell Christy Burke or somebody her concerns about an apartment block being built near her in Smithfield.
Dublins problem from a planning and spatial perspective is 2-fold.
1. There is not enough population density inside the M50 but especially between the canals, forcing young people to live in the sticks and commute in when they would happily live in apartments, high-rise, etc beside where they work
2. The sprawl beyond the M50 has reached epidemic proportions and the density of the commuter belt is so low that even attempting to put in any form of sustainable public transport is nigh on impossible.

And sure if somebody came up with a brainwave, like Metrolink, BusConnects, etc it would take years of planning, objections, political interference, etc before a bulldozer is ever started up.

monument

Tell me how wrote: »

Every day many drive past Naas, Newbridge, Leixlip, Maynooth, Drogheda Wicklow etc to get to work in Dublin. Intel, HP, Kerry Group are examples of companies in the region but not shoehorned in to the city area.

Intel is a unique enough example of scale of the plant size, HP is within the city's continuous urban area, and the Kerry Group is a strange example to mention -- you seem to think somebody has suggested that all types of companies need/want cities.

I'm not sure what your point is that people drive past those places? It's normal around the world for people to be making such commutes and a small enough amount of people are doing so into Dublin.

Tell me how wrote: »

It is in no way the problem which it is in Dublin. There are several properties empty in many towns and villages. These properties might still require travelling to work, but that is happening in some form already (hence this discussion)/

Err... maybe where you are is different but the accommodation problem in towns and cities around Ireland is really bad -- (relatively) high rents, little building, and even local councils finding it hard to find sites due to the zoning rules. Most towns in Ireland would struggle if there was a influx of 100 jobs at once.

Tell me how wrote: »

There are many multinational companies outside of Dublin also. They would be more likely to locate in satellite towns, or the other cities if incentivised to do so while still having suitable access to workforce and resources.

Google is one company. I know there are more like them but by no means all companies should be let dictate this. As I said previously, suitable services and workforce will be priority for most companies over location. Google can afford to be so choosy. Not everyone can.

Again: This is not a Communist country. I don't know what we're letting companies dictate?

Where it suits companies, they are already been incentivised to locate outside Dublin and if companies cannot "afford to be so choosy" about locating in the city for whatever reason, then they won't locate in a city.

Tell me how wrote: »

At this stage, because of the focus on growing Dublin at the detriment of other areas the population is skewed. But, having 30% of the population of the country in 1.3% of the area of the country is not appropriate and it is not ideal that we have gotten to this point.

But it's not "at the detriment of other areas" -- in fact, Dublin (and other cities) subsidies other areas.

Dublin is not that much out of kilter with similar small countries where their capital or capital regions represent a very large percentage of the overall population. Dublin's population density is within European norms.

Cork, Limerick, Galway, Waterford, and even towns should be larger but they are been held back more so due to poor planning, a scatter gun approach to development and things like people being allowed to build along half the rural roads in the county.

Interfering with Dublin could have a knock-on effect of it not being able to pay for other places.

Tell me how wrote: »

Also, your figures include those who have moved from outside Dublin and are renting within because of the need to do so for work. If they had the option of working locally to their home place I suspect many would rather it.

It also includes those who don't tell their mammies the truth that they prefer living in Dublin. Of cource cities will always have some people living there who would prefer living somewhere else -- towns and rural areas have the same kind of thing... some in towns would prefer to be in a city or another town, some in towns would prefer to be in a rural areas, and some in rural areas or villages would prefer to be in towns. I talk to people all the time about this stuff -- it's far less simple that rural-focused TDs and media would like to think.

Tell me how wrote: »

These cars are on the road already. They are travelling in to Dublin.
The issues with Dublin should be considered in a national context.

The cars on the road heading to locations into the city centre -- which is what we were talking about -- are being reduced every year as people are being incentivised into sustainable transport for all or part of their commutes. For those who drive into the city centre, they are likely in a minority in their company.

If more employment was placed outside the M50 that would mean more car trips.

Tell me how

^^^^

Posting it twice doesn't make it any more valid.

Forgive me if I don't engage any further along this line. The "I talk to people all the time about this stuff" tells me you are coming from a fairly entrenched position and the rest of your post enforces that.

Lackey

McCrack wrote: »

No such thing as "undertaking" either.. Only the lads in black suits that drive hearses do that.

It's overtaking on the left..and I do it myself when appropriate.. The lane of least resistance which can usually be the left lane whilst a queue of sheep sit in the overtaking lane

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/motorway_driving.pdf

It appears you are correct but seeing as this is the internet I cannot officially state that you are right so ....the furthest I will go is say ‘appears’

incentsitive

I always laugh when people complain about the middle lane hoggers on the M50 - I must not see you all in the inside lane on the M50 every time I drive it!

Cienciano

incentsitive wrote: »

I always laugh when people complain about the middle lane hoggers on the M50 - I must not see you all in the inside lane on the M50 every time I drive it!

I had someone in work complain about all the people passing her on the left on the M50. I had to take a deep breath, hold it together and walk away.

monument

Tell me how wrote: »

^^^^

Posting it twice doesn't make it any more valid.

Forgive me if I don't engage any further along this line. The "I talk to people all the time about this stuff" tells me you are coming from a fairly entrenched position and the rest of your post enforces that.

You’re right, as a resident outside of the west I should keep up the pretence that everyone from here who are living in cities were forced there.

cdaly_

jamesbondings wrote: »

Arctics and all "work" vehicles to be banned from roads between 7 and 9. Port tunnel price to be reduced to 2 quid for all traffic between this time. Bus lanes to be reduced in areas with a left turn to help ease congestion (ie let the lane fill up on the left).

Money to be earmarked for cycle ways in and out of the city (cyclists on the road to be fined and penalty points on their car licence).

Stagger school times to get parents off the roads (school to start at 8.30 finish half an hour earlier).

Bonkers that the whole country and their dogs need to be in a specific place for between 8 & 9. And mostly in high density areas!

So basically, get everything the f*ck out of my way so I can drive my 3-piece suite to work...

gwalk

cdaly_ wrote: »

So basically, get everything the f*ck out of my way so I can drive my 3-piece suite to work...

You're doing well to drive a couch to work

ELM327

gwalk wrote: »

You're doing well to drive a couch to work

You can only drive sofa you have to get the bus the rest of the way.

cdaly_

gwalk wrote: »

You're doing well to drive a couch to work

That's what everybody in the M50 gridlock is doing. A car is basically a 5-seater 3-piece suite with an engine to push it along...

Nermal

Tell me how wrote: »

Every day many drive past Naas, Newbridge, Leixlip, Maynooth, Drogheda Wicklow etc to get to work in Dublin. Intel, HP, Kerry Group are examples of companies in the region but not shoehorned in to the city area.

They are (or in HP's case, were) manufacturing sites.

Not a surprise that they will be outside cities, they need a lot of relatively cheap land.

When that's not a factor, a company will locate centrally.

incentsitive

incentsitive wrote: »

I always laugh when people complain about the middle lane hoggers on the M50 - I must not see you all in the inside lane on the M50 every time I drive it!

I always laugh when I hear about middle lane hoggers full stop. It's usually by people that, you know, wanted to stay in the middle lane without changing lane to overtake. Otherwise known as "hogging".

Lord Nikon

My commute involves taking the M4/N4 to the M50, heading Northbound to Junction 5. In most cases the traffic is so bad, that never get onto the M50, with Google maps diverting me from the M4 to the N3 and then the N2.

Depends on where you work in Dublin living outside Dublin, public transport DOES NOT WORK.

People are looking for ways to accommodate the huge problem that is traffic congestion, However, should we look at my we have congestion in the first place. All new housing developments are popping up in commuter towns, and people commute to Dublin to work. We need to move where people work, closer to where they live, not having them live closer to where they work.

usernamegoes

Deleted User wrote: »

I always laugh when I hear about middle lane hoggers full stop. It's usually by people that, you know, wanted to stay in the middle lane without changing lane to overtake. Otherwise known as "hogging".

Personally, I am driving lane guy. I get into the driving lane and usually stay there. Far less hassle than changing lanes to gain a few minutes on a trip, but middle lane hoggers force me to monitor the speed of vehicles to my right so as to avoid overtaking on the left. This is harder than it should be. Just this morning on the M50 I was in the driving lane trying to stay behind a middle lane hogger with a relatively open road in front of me. The middle lane hogeer was been overtaken by loads of cars and could easily have moved back to the driving lane but presumably wanted to avoid people merging up ahead.

It's infuriating!

Hurrache

Nermal wrote: »

They are (or in HP's case, were) manufacturing sites.

Not solely. Yes, they had a lot of manufacturing there but a large amount of space was taking up by support, admin and dev/tech roles. There's probably more software related activity there now than there is manufacturing.

ozzy jr

usernamegoes wrote: »

middle lane hoggers force me to monitor the speed of vehicles to my right so as to avoid overtaking on the left. !

Why won't you overtake on the left?

facehugger99

ozzy jr wrote: »

Why won't you overtake on the left?

I think it's just an internet thing.

Dravokivich

ozzy jr wrote: »

Why won't you overtake on the left?

Are you trying to set someone up or do you not know it's only permissible under a few very well defined scenarios?

ozzy jr

Dravokivich wrote: »

Are you trying to set someone up or do you not know it's only permissible under a few very well defined scenarios?

He's driving in the left lane, so he's allowed pass slower moving cars to his right (as long as he's within the speed limit).

Dravokivich

ozzy jr wrote: »

He's driving in the left lane, so he's allowed pass slower moving cars to his right (as long as he's within the speed limit).

No he isnt.

tom1ie

Dravokivich wrote: »

Are you trying to set someone up or do you not know it's only permissible under a few very well defined scenarios?

Such as the traffic moving slower on the right hand side scenario? Are you seriously suggesting that if a car is in the fast lane driving at 60kph, then no one can overtake on the left hand side for fear of breaking the law?

tom1ie

Dravokivich wrote: »

No he isnt.

Yes he is.

tommythecat

tom1ie wrote: »

Such as the traffic moving slower on the right hand side scenario? Are you seriously suggesting that if a car is in the fast lane driving at 60kph, then no one can overtake on the left hand side for fear of breaking the law?

There is no fast lane

tom1ie

tommythecat wrote: »

There is no fast lane

Ok. Overtaking lane, of which there are 2. The middle and far right lane, as per RSA reading and broadcast material, and no that's not the facist lane!

Dravokivich

tom1ie wrote: »

Such as the traffic moving slower on the right hand side scenario? Are you seriously suggesting that if a car is in the fast lane driving at 60kph, then no one can overtake on the left hand side for fear of breaking the law?

Slower is a matter of relative perception. But it's not "slow." Which is whats stated in the legislation. You're insisting on going by 60, because it's trivial not to consider that slow on a road rated up to 100/120. But the other guy made no reference of specific speed. He could be sitting between 85/90 for all we know. And that's by no means slow.

foxatron

I think this has been covered in various threads. To overtake you'd have to move out of your lane, passing the car in front of you and then change lane back into the lane that you were in. The speed limit is the speed limit. Its not your fault the car to the right chooses to do less. Its not overtaking to stay in your own lane.

tom1ie

Dravokivich wrote: »

Slower is a matter of relative perception. But it's not "slow." Which is whats stated in the legislation. You're insisting on going by 60, because it's trivial not to consider that slow on a road rated up to 100/120. But the other guy made no reference of specific speed. He could be sitting between 85/90 for all we know. And that's by no means slow.

Ok. Can you answer the question I asked please.