Sourcing points of air or heat loss help

adocholiday

We've recently bought a house, a one-off bungalow with partially converted attic built in 2001. Right now heating is delivered by means of storage heaters in the main living areas and standard electric heaters in the bedrooms. Plumbing is all in place under the floors for radiators but for whatever reason the previous owner didn't get proper heating installed. House has a BER of E1. Before investing money into a heating solution however, I want to try to make the house as well insulated and airtight as I can.

So my question is where do I begin? I suppose it has to be finding the points where cold is coming in and where heat is escaping but I haven't a clue where to start. In some parts of the house I can feel draughts, but in other parts I can't but the room is freezing. The partially converted attic is freezing but I don't feel draughts there either. I think it's simply the lack of heating in the space, but that leaves it very difficult to determine if or where it's losing heat.

Just wondering if anyone could tell me a process for actually sourcing points of heat loss? The only thing I've seen so far is thermal imaging inspection but that seems to be very expensive. Your help is most appreciated.

sydthebeat

If you think thermal imaging is expensive then your coming at this from the wrong view point completely.

adocholiday

sydthebeat wrote: »

If you think thermal imaging is expensive then your coming at this from the wrong view point completely.

How so? I'm under no illusions as to how much I might be spending overall on this but I've seen people mention prices of upwards of a thousand euro for a thermal imaging survey. I'm just wondering if there's some cheaper option that I could either try myself first or get someone in to do. If a thermal imaging survey was recommended at that point then I'd go for it, but I don't think I need to go for the most expensive option right away when something a bit lower tech might do equally well is all. A thousand euro would buy me a lot of insulation

Calahonda52

adocholiday wrote: »

How so? I'm under no illusions as to how much I might be spending overall on this but I've seen people mention prices of upwards of a thousand euro for a thermal imaging survey. I'm just wondering if there's some cheaper option that I could either try myself first or get someone in to do. If a thermal imaging survey was recommended at that point then I'd go for it, but I don't think I need to go for the most expensive option right away when something a bit lower tech might do equally well is all. A thousand euro would buy me a lot of insulation

Indeed it would, and if you don't know how to use it properly then you may as well not have bought it.

Your post is 100% silence on the actual construction materials used: we don't know if it is TF/ICF/Block CW/Block CB/Steel framed/etc.
We don't know if the attic conversion is for habitation or storage.
Is there a proper stairs
We know zip about the location [ exposed vs sheltered ]
Re the rads, you need to get some math done on what Delta T was used in their design.
My guess is that it was 60C [80-20]
whereas if you hook up a condensing boiler, suitable for use with a delta T of maybe 50, or less [70-20] or [65-20], then you will be cold.

Have you explored having a simple blower door test done, maybe impractical depending on the current sate of the build.

Markcheese

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Indeed it would, and if you don't know how to use it properly then you may as well not have bought it.

Your post is 100% silence on the actual construction materials used: we don't know if it is TF/ICF/Block CW/Block CB/Steel framed/etc.
We don't know if the attic conversion is for habitation or storage.
Is there a proper stairs
We know zip about the location [ exposed vs sheltered ]
Re the rads, you need to get some math done on what Delta T was used in their design.
My guess is that it was 60C [80-20]
whereas if you hook up a condensing boiler, suitable for use with a delta T of maybe 50, or less [70-20] or [65-20], then you will be cold.

Have you explored having a simple blower door test done, maybe impractical depending on the current sate of the build.

Wow, I've very little idea what most of that means.. And I doubt the op does either..
But op is probably right about spending a grand on a full thermal imaging survey without some idea of a plan, and importantly a budget..

Its probably worth getting a bit of help on this to target where you spend your money..
(as in the levels of insulation and air tightness you can achieve will affect your heating options, as much as your budget...

adocholiday

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Indeed it would, and if you don't know how to use it properly then you may as well not have bought it.

Your post is 100% silence on the actual construction materials used: we don't know if it is TF/ICF/Block CW/Block CB/Steel framed/etc.
We don't know if the attic conversion is for habitation or storage.
Is there a proper stairs
We know zip about the location [ exposed vs sheltered ]
Re the rads, you need to get some math done on what Delta T was used in their design.
My guess is that it was 60C [80-20]
whereas if you hook up a condensing boiler, suitable for use with a delta T of maybe 50, or less [70-20] or [65-20], then you will be cold.

Have you explored having a simple blower door test done, maybe impractical depending on the current sate of the build.

Thanks for that, sorry but didn't realise I'd need to provide that info. The walls are standard cavity blocks with solid concrete floors and wooden windows. Honestly not sure what level of insulation is in place in the walls and floors, but I expect they were built to whatever the standard was in 2000/2001.

The attic conversion is partially done. What I mean by that is there are plasterboard walls all along the length of the attic with a ceiling in place following the slope of the roof. The floor is basically plywood sheets cut to fit with some cheap underlay and carpet on top. There is fibreglass insulation between the floor and the ceilings of the rooms below and sheets of insulation in the rafters. Nothing behind the plasterboard in the crawl space. The attic is for habitation (well, as an office). There is a proper stairs up to it from the ground floor.

The location of the house is pretty well sheltered. We're on an elevated site but the rear of the site is the upward slope of the hill and the rest of the site is surrounded by trees.

No rads in place, only some piping under the floor. I have absolutely no idea of what's there I'm afraid, it needs to be tested by a plumber etc.

I haven't explored any options regarding tests, I'm hoping to get some advice on that here!

Markcheese

Cavity wall or cavity block...?

adocholiday

Markcheese wrote: »

Cavity wall or cavity block...?

I can only go by the property survey we had done before buying. All it says is 'Cavity Construction'. I'm afraid that's all I have to hand.

Calahonda52

Markcheese wrote: »

Cavity wall or cavity block...?

He says cavity block so lets check:)

OP: take off an internal air vent cover off the wall and see it it is cavity block or cavity wall
post a few pictures of it as well of the attic

adocholiday

Calahonda52 wrote: »

He says cavity block so lets check:)

OP: take off an internal air vent cover off the wall and see it it is cavity block or cavity wall
post a few pictures of it as well of the attic

Ok, can do it this evening after work. Thanks.

Metric Tensor

Air tightness test and thermal imaging as well as advise from a professional are really the best ways for you OP.

If you are talking, new windows, new doors, more insulation, air-tightness works, new plumbing, new boiler and subsequent painting, fixtures and fittings you are probably in a 30k budget range. Putting aside 10% of that for professional fees to make sure the end result is worth the outlay is a no brainer.

You are, at least, in the good position of acknowledging that you don't know much about construction. If you knew a little you might chance your arm without guidance and waste a huge amount of money. Thousands of home owners do this across the country on an annual basis.

adocholiday

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Air tightness test and thermal imaging as well as advise from a professional are really the best ways for you OP.

If you are talking, new windows, new doors, more insulation, air-tightness works, new plumbing, new boiler and subsequent painting, fixtures and fittings you are probably in a 30k budget range. Putting aside 10% of that for professional fees to make sure the end result is worth the outlay is a no brainer.

You are, at least, in the good position of acknowledging that you don't know much about construction. If you knew a little you might chance your arm without guidance and waste a huge amount of money. Thousands of home owners do this across the country on an annual basis.

I'm pretty sure we won't need new windows or doors thankfully. To my untrained eye at least, the ones that are there are very good quality and in good condition. There are no noticeable draughts or leaks with them.

I think the rest of what you've listed is required for sure, the question is how much. I have every intention of getting the professionals in to do the job, but I've no problem doing things like sealing gaps in skirting boards or draught proofing internal doors etc.

The point of the thread wasn't so much for me to seek advice on how to do remedial works myself, but rather to understand what steps I should take and in what order to ensure that the right jobs are being done and at the right time. I thought there might be some simple things I could do initially myself to understand the obvious weak points and go from there.

Example: Do X test to identify where the air leaks are coming from. Ok, I find that leaks are coming from a bad seal on the internal door and a gap in the skirting board. If they are relatively easy to fix, even on a temporary basis, then try the fix myself if possible. If not then add to the list and get the pros in to do it.

This isn't something I'm going to get done in one go, I certainly don't have 30k to do all these things now. However if I could improve things by small percentage just doing a few easy things myself it's worth a shot and get the more complex jobs done in parts over the next year. Like if I could make the bedroom more comfortable, and get rid of the draughts in the living room, I'd see that as a big win.

Metric Tensor

My point is not just about getting professionals to do the work - I mean getting professional advise about what needs to be done in the first place.

It is quite possible to do elements of the work yourself but you need to know what work to do and how to do it first. So, for example, if you find cold air coming in via your skirting board do you need to pull off the skirting board to find the source or is it simply ok to seal up the gaps?

Your specific question was about draughts. Draughts are caused by the absence of "air tightness" measures - the way to properly identify them is by testing. Proper testing would be as listed by everyone above. You could just wander around the house, willy nilly, holding your hand up to junctions to see if you feel a breeze but the results would be as piecemeal as the process. You could also try some smoke emitting device and watch the flow of air but the same applies.

Most professionals familiar with buildings of the same style as yours could hazard some guesses as to the most likely problem areas - but in the absence of test results this would still be educated guesswork albeit based on experience.

Calahonda52

OP: I get you are well intentioned here so take all the advice been given in that context.
In relation to sealing off gaps under skirting boards, you really need to find the source of the wind.
In other words, if the downstairs floors are concrete and you have wind pi$$$ing under the sb, you DO need to find the source, as you would do if it were a water leak

The other point is that if the TI/Blower door tests etc save half your energy bill over 30 years......

adocholiday

Sorry if I came across as unappreciative or snarky! It wasn't my intention, I am very much taking all of your advice on board and do appreciate your time in responding.

I know I need to get professional advice but I just don't know where to start with it. I probably confused the thread by talking about the house structure, draughts etc. when really the point I'm trying to get to is: I understand I have a problem with heat loss and cold ingress, but I don't know where to start in terms of getting it investigated. I thought I might be able to do something myself to kick it off, but if that's not the case then I need to know what kind of professional to approach first. Like you've said, I can get someone in to get a blower test done, or thermal imaging or whatever and I do intend to do that. What I would like to know though is where does this process start? I can arrange a thermal imaging survey right now, but what good is it if there's something that needs to be done first. That's all I'm trying to understand.

Apologies for any confusion.

Metric Tensor

Start with a building professional to advise you - Architect, Engineer, Building Surveyor, Technician, Technologist.

Ask your neighbours/friends for recommendations of a good local person. In this case experience and knowledge of retrofits and upgrades is more important than their headline qualifications. This person will visit the house and guide you in the right direction. The initial consultation won't cost a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

There are some grants of which you may be able to avail depending on circumstances - in general though I would recommend independently employing your own consultant and not be sold a product by someone who is marketing a product - even if said product is grant aided.

MicktheMan

OP, your first step IS to have a full heat loss survey (ti/blower door) done and make sure you're present during the survey. After the survey you will be a million % more informed than you are now. And the survey shouldn't cost a grand either.

Gumbo

MicktheMan wrote: »

OP, your first step IS to have a full heat loss survey (ti/blower door) done and make sure you're present during the survey. After the survey you will be a million % more informed than you are now. And the survey shouldn't cost a grand either.

Looking into something similar and this week got a ball park price of €600.
That’s for an Air tightness test carried out, identify leaks and then carry out a BER assessment and provide a BER Cert.


*just to give the OP an idea of cost. Dublin based.

dusteeroads

OP recessed ceiling lights are a curse for air leakage. Usually a direct air path from the roof overhang vents into the living spaces. consider de installing and replacing with track lighting. Then look at kitchen and washroom drain pipes where they exit through the external walls - some expanding foam and /or gun applied sealant could go a long way. Another source of leakage is where gap between the wall and the widow frame.
To fix this you need to remove the plaster board lining to jambs and head and remove the cill boars and tape seal between the wall and window.