Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

Burkie1203

Have only seen a few clips online from testing

Have McLaren really gone totally the opposite of most teams in terms of rake?

https://twitter.com/AkzoNobel_AACNA/status/1096122678665248768?s=19

Adamocovic

Any drivers comment yet on the changes to supposedly make it easier to overtake in dirty air?

I know a few have been driving behind others no-doubt getting a feel for it, but havent seen any comments from them.

eviltimeban

Kubica out on track now.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Kubica spun in the Williams this morning, i'm wondering is it the Williams car in general as it's not the first time this year or last that he has spun, did it happen in the Renault in 2017? How much of a contributing factor is his limitation to it all?

El_Duderino 09

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

Kubica spun in the Williams this morning, i'm wondering is it the Williams car in general as it's not the first time this year or last that he has spun, did it happen in the Renault in 2017? How much of a contributing factor is his limitation to it all?

Ah, Kimi spin on his first lap on Monday. I wouldn’t read too much into it.

eagle eye

muckwarrior wrote:

I'm tired of people saying this every season for the past 20 years or so. Maybe F1 just isn't for you.

Yeah, not anymore. I've been annoyed by it for a couple of years now. They made overtaking nearly impossible, it's about the car not the driver and as a result it's become a snoozefest for me.

You gotta get back to making it about the driver. I don't think anybody wants to watch races which are just about the car, might as well make them robot cars.

Like it's a disgrace that Lewis Hamilton is being compared to Michael Schumacher when it's got nothing to do with driving skills. It's just that he has had the mist dominant car for more seasons than any driver possibly in the history of the sport.
Ayrton Senna won races in an old car. Schumacher won two world championship in a Bennetton with two different engine manufacturers in successive years.

H3llR4iser

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I won't be watching it anymore. Just tired of the same old every season. You can fall asleep after the first lap and wake up just before the finish and more often than not you've missed nothing important.
I started following Nascar a couple of seasons back and Indycar too. They are much more entertaining.

As much as I love Indycar and have a soft spot for Nascar too, these series are basically spec-driven and the sporting rules are made on purpose to shake things up until the last moment.

Especially on ovals, often a race is decided by a caution 10 laps from the flag - and the guy lingering in 20th for the whole race goes to win it as he happened to be in the pits when the yellow flags came out. They might call it a "strategy masterstroke" but really it's dumb luck (unless they pulled a Briatore-Piquet pinch :P) and makes you question why have the previous 190 laps at all.

Again, I like both Indycar and Nascar and I WILL watch, provided there's decent coverage (actually thinking about attending a race live this year), but it's a different kettle of fish from F1 - or most other European/Asian racing series, for what matters.

muckwarrior wrote: »

I'm tired of people saying this every season for the past 20 years or so. Maybe F1 just isn't for you.

Exactly this - F1 isn't particularly "boring" these days; It's just working the same way it always did, with a few teams/drivers leaping away from the rest: from Alfa in the early days to Mercedes in the mid '50s, Tyrrell/Stewart in the early 70s, Lotus annihilating the field in 1978, McLaren running away in 1984/85 and then 1988, Williams in the 90s', Ferrari in the 2000s, Red Bull and now Mercedes.

The only argument that can be successfully made is that technology tends to ruin anything that relies on a bit of "human factor" for its entertainment value and F1 ain't immune from it - then again, what to do? Ban the use of computers?

mickdw wrote: »

There can be boring races. I think it needs refuelling to add a little to the strategy combinations and chances of things going wrong.

No thanks - refueling is never the solution as it transforms races into 90 minutes long qualifying stints; Also, with today's sim technology and engine rules (Merc, Ferrari, Renault or Honda - they all use the same general amount of fuel) there would be no variation in strategy whatsoever - just a cookie cutter solution, perfectly calculated for each race, that will be adopted by everyone.

Inviere

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

How much of a contributing factor is his limitation to it all?

He knocked in lap after lap during his Renault test. He's fine. I'd say it's far more a Williams limitation, than his own personal ones. That said, to spin in testing isn't unheard of, hell, it's not unheard of to do it in practice either.

pjohnson

Inviere wrote: »

He knocked in lap after lap during his Renault test. He's fine. I'd say it's far more a Williams limitation, than his own personal ones. That said, to spin in testing isn't unheard of, hell, it's not unheard of to do it in practice either.

Hell a four time champion can spin his Ferrari like a ballerina during a race!

skipper_G

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah, not anymore. I've been annoyed by it for a couple of years now. They made overtaking nearly impossible, it's about the car not the driver and as a result it's become a snoozefest for me.

You gotta get back to making it about the driver. I don't think anybody wants to watch races which are just about the car, might as well make them robot cars.

Like it's a disgrace that Lewis Hamilton is being compared to Michael Schumacher when it's got nothing to do with driving skills. It's just that he has had the mist dominant car for more seasons than any driver possibly in the history of the sport.
Ayrton Senna won races in an old car. Schumacher won two world championship in a Bennetton with two different engine manufacturers in successive years.

F1 of the 80's and 90's are completely different. In modern F1, you can't win a race unless you drive for one of the big 3 teams. It doesn't matter how much skill a driver has. If you put Senna or Schumacher in one of the midfield teams of today they wouldn't win a race either.
All the technical regulations in the world won't solve the root of the problem, bring in a better revenue distribution model and the gap between the front and the rest will close.

Joeface

1 Albon (Toro Rosso) 1m17.637s
2 Ricciardo (Renault) 1m17.785s
3 Hamilton (Mercedes) 1m17.977s
4 Leclerc (Ferrari) 1m18.046s
5 Giovinazzi (Alfa Romeo) 1m18.511s
6 Grosjean (Haas) 1m18.563s
7 Gasly (Red Bull) 1m19.495s
8 Norris (McLaren) 1m19.543s
9 Stroll (Racing Point) 1m20.026s
10 Kubica (Williams) 1m21.542s


I hate this pre Season , Its give me too much hope of a serious battle . I shouldn't get sucked in by it .......But I am

recyclebin

For a car that was cobbled together and two new drivers, Williams are not as far off as I thought they would be.

El_Duderino 09

recyclebin wrote: »

For a car that was cobbled together and two new drivers, Williams are not as far off as I thought they would be.

That time was set on the second hardest tyres. Very hard to say anything about it really.

They’ve got a solid 48 laps running so far today. That’s a great sign that they can gather the data they need to improve

muckwarrior

skipper_G wrote: »

F1 of the 80's and 90's are completely different. In modern F1, you can't win a race unless you drive for one of the big 3 teams. It doesn't matter how much skill a driver has. If you put Senna or Schumacher in one of the midfield teams of today they wouldn't win a race either.
All the technical regulations in the world won't solve the root of the problem, bring in a better revenue distribution model and the gap between the front and the rest will close.

They wouldn't win a race back then either if all of the top teams finished. The main thing that has changed in recent years is reliability. It used to be completely normal for half the field not to finish the race. Now that's almost unheard of. That's why it's now so hard for midfield teams to grab the odd podium. It's not because the gap in speed has gotten bigger. It's because all the top cars always finish.

pjohnson

Hulk needs to improve imo, can't be taking an on track nap mid lap

Frank Bullitt

I'm hopeful of a good season myself, no idea how someone could say they won't be watching it after a few days in cold Spain.

billybonkers

pjohnson wrote: »

Hulk needs to improve imo, can't be taking an on track nap mid lap

He did, 1m17.393s quickest so far

Frank Bullitt

I really like the look of the Williams. Maybe its the nostalgia talking, but I would love to see both Williams and Kubica do well.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

I don't understand these new compounds at all with the Williams boys.

George Russell Williams 17 Compound 3 1:20.997
Robert Kubica Williams 48 Compound 2 1:21.542

H3llR4iser

muckwarrior wrote: »

They wouldn't win a race back then either if all of the top teams finished. The main thing that has changed in recent years is reliability. It used to be completely normal for half the field not to finish the race. Now that's almost unheard of. That's why it's now so hard for midfield teams to grab the odd podium. It's not because the gap in speed has gotten bigger. It's because all the top cars always finish.

As a matter of fact, the gap is as small as it's ever been - 30 years ago, being 2 seconds off the pace placed you in the 3rd/4th row on the grid, now you'd be lagging at the back.

Take two races at Suzuka (perhaps the track that changed the least amongst the "mixed technical" ones), the first one on the track in 1987 and last years.

2018 - 2 seconds off the top time in Q1 would give you 19th place.
1987 - By being 2 seconds off Berger's pole, you'd qualify 7th (or 8th, considering Mansell's crash in Q2).

That same 1987 race saw Ayrton Senna, qualifying 8th with a gap of 3.262s from Berger, and Stefan Johansson (10th, +3.329) finish 2nd and 3rd respectively - Piquet, Fabi, Alboreto, Prost and Patrese ahead of them run into various trouble (from slow starts to punctures to oil leaks), all basically unthinkable today.

El_Duderino 09

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

I don't understand these new compounds at all with the Williams boys.

George Russell Williams 17 Compound 3 1:20.997
Robert Kubica Williams 48 Compound 2 1:21.542

Compound 1 is hardest compound 5 is softest. They’ll bring 3 compounds to each race and call them soft medium and hard.

Here’s an article about them.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirelli-gaps-2019-tyre-compounds/4341913/

The testing times mean nothing. Don’t look for representative gaps between tyre compounds in pre season testing.

I k ow it’s tempting to read I to testing times because it’s the only data we have. But it’s completely misleading data because the teams aren’t trying to go quickest in pre season testing.

Cookie_Monster

Paddy Lowe not in good favour
https://www.driven.co.nz/news/motorsport/f1-williams-face-mutiny-as-more-delays-threatened-testing/

H3llR4iser

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Compound 1 is hardest compound 5 is softest. They’ll bring 3 compounds to each race and call them soft medium and hard.

Here’s an article about them.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirelli-gaps-2019-tyre-compounds/4341913/

The testing times mean nothing. Don’t look for representative gaps between tyre compounds in pre season testing.

I k ow it’s tempting to read I to testing times because it’s the only data we have. But it’s completely misleading data because the teams aren’t trying to go quickest in pre season testing.

On the other hand, the "ease" with which teams rack up laps and put in a good time, as well as consistency, tend to be decent indicators - most of the technical commentators, from Gary Anderson to Giorgio Piola, agree that Ferrari have a strong package, Mercedes is in the general vicinity of them and Alfa Romeo seems to have leapfrogged to the top of the midfield in terms of long run consistency/pace.

To someone who's been away from F1 this will all sound new - back until not long ago, you had a picture-perfect idea of the pecking order the moment the cars hit the track in winter; As late as 2009, that BrawnGP had a dominant car was clear since their very first timed laps.

The difference is that back then (yep, even "just" 10 years ago), laptimes were the primary indicators for the teams to know how well their cars went; Today, with simulators and mathematical models, they can lap 5 seconds off their pace and still know how the car is doing and what its maximum performance will be.

As said before, technology is really ruining the excitement...

Burkie1203

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Paddy Lowe not in good favour
https://www.driven.co.nz/news/motorsport/f1-williams-face-mutiny-as-more-delays-threatened-testing/

Williams have been a mess long before Lowe arrived. Think the issues run a lot deeper. Reckon he regrets leaving Merc big time now

Frank Bullitt

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Williams have been a mess long before Lowe arrived. Think the issues run a lot deeper. Reckon he regrets leaving Merc big time now

They would be signing up for a season of hell if they got rid of him now.

chicorytip

Gintonious wrote:

I really like the look of the Williams. Maybe its the nostalgia talking, but I would love to see both Williams and Kubica do well.

It's a wonder he is able to drive at all. How will he perform in a race situation? It seems likely he will spend the entire season racing his own team mate at the back of the field.

El_Duderino 09

H3llR4iser wrote: »

On the other hand, the "ease" with which teams rack up laps and put in a good time, as well as consistency, tend to be decent indicators - most of the technical commentators, from Gary Anderson to Giorgio Piola, agree that Ferrari have a strong package, Mercedes is in the general vicinity of them and Alfa Romeo seems to have leapfrogged to the top of the midfield in terms of long run consistency/pace.

To someone who's been away from F1 this will all sound new - back until not long ago, you had a picture-perfect idea of the pecking order the moment the cars hit the track in winter; As late as 2009, that BrawnGP had a dominant car was clear since their very first timed laps.

The difference is that back then (yep, even "just" 10 years ago), laptimes were the primary indicators for the teams to know how well their cars went; Today, with simulators and mathematical models, they can lap 5 seconds off their pace and still know how the car is doing and what its maximum performance will be.

As said before, technology is really ruining the excitement...

Yes and no. I wouldn't believe the Toro Roso is the fastest car because it's racked up lost of laps and topped the time sheet. I suspect Honda has turned up the TR engine so they can learn tmanout the engine but don't have to turn up the Red Bull engine. Similarly I'd say the Alfa Romeo has done the same do ferrari doesn't have to.

I believe very little of the speculation about testing

Rossi IRL

https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1098885107249827840?s=19

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Most would rather keep the £10/€ equivalent than pay Sky. My subscription is long gone.

F1 viewership will suffer in Ireland & UK as a result.

Rossi IRL

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

Most would rather keep the £10/€ equivalent than pay Sky. My subscription is long gone.

F1 viewership will suffer in Ireland & UK as a result.

The promo video is good though, and I hear the old music aswell.

I did see all the price stuff when I linked it. Thought it was just the promo video.

recyclebin

I suppose its's 10 pound on top of basic subscription too. I wonder will nowtv offer it for the same price?

Is f1tv through a vpn an option?

mickdw

I think I'm paying about 7.50 per month for hd to get f1 over and above the subscription we have. Currently about 43 quid per month.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Rossi IRL wrote: »

The promo video is good though, and I hear the old music aswell.

I didn't see all the price stuff when I linked it. Thought it was just the promo video.

Looking further into it some people are saying their subscription is throw the roof even without it.

Mickdw, I take it you have the hd extra for many years now? That option is no longer available to new customers.

Adamocovic

I wonder will we see them improve on the official F1 TV Pro.

Annual subscriptions for live races and more in US are $99 I believe. Unfortunately with Sky Sports we can't take advantage of the services, only a cheaper version with session replays/highlights.

Really think official Streaming Services is the way to go. Absolutely love them and hope they improve. I'm sorry for those who hate American Football but I use the official NFL Game Pass for that, 40 quid or so for the basic annual subscription of watching the coverage. If we have any luck F1 will push this platform and soon do away with paying a monthly fee for coverage you're not interested in, to pay extra for the one you are!

TCP/IP

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

Looking further into it some people are saying their subscription is throw the roof even without it.

Mickdw, I take it you have the hd extra for many years now? That option is no longer available to new customers.

£10.00 for all F1 races and all the other coverage is a bargain its hardly a high price to pay. I really don't get the hate people have over F1 been on pay TV only its a simple decision do you like F1 enough to pay £10 or not and yes I know you need a basic sub as well come on guys it's a bargain for the sport we love.

Adamocovic

TCP/IP wrote: »

£10.00 for all F1 races and all the other coverage is a bargain its hardly a high price to pay. I really don't get the hate people have over F1 been on pay TV only its a simple decision do you like F1 enough to pay £10 or not and yes I know you need a basic sub as well come on guys it's a bargain for the sport we love.

The £10 in itself isn't outrageous, but I'd much rather be able to just buy the F1 TV Pro subscription than spending €20-30 euro a month on a basic subscription to Sky which I don't want.

In Germany people got access to F1 TV Pro for as cheap as €59 for the year using a promotional offer last month.

Tempted myself to try the F1 Access TV for €25 a year or so but that would mean I would be watching replays of the races and sessons rather than being live. Anyone know how long after the race ends before they go up?

Inviere

TCP/IP wrote: »

£10.00 for all F1 races and all the other coverage is a bargain its hardly a high price to pay. I really don't get the hate people have over F1 been on pay TV only its a simple decision do you like F1 enough to pay £10 or not and yes I know you need a basic sub as well come on guys it's a bargain for the sport we love.

So what’s the true cost per month then, for a basic package of channels that nobody wants, plus the one channel we do?

TCP/IP

Adamocovic wrote: »

The £10 in itself isn't outrageous, but I'd much rather be able to just buy the F1 TV Pro subscription than spending €20-30 euro a month on a basic subscription to Sky which I don't want.

In Germany people got access to F1 TV Pro for as cheap as €59 for the year using a promotional offer last month.

Tempted myself to try the F1 Access TV for €25 a year or so but that would mean I would be watching replays of the races and sessons rather than being live. Anyone know how long after the race ends before they go up?

I believe in Ireland it's After 14 days before you can watch a full repeat.
https://f1tv.formula1.com/en/content-schedule

AMKC

ts 10 pound in the UK. What would it be here 12, 13 maybe 15 euro's the way things are going?

Adamocovic

TCP/IP wrote: »

I believe in Ireland it's After 14 days before you can watch a full repeat.
https://f1tv.formula1.com/en/content-schedule

14 days! Madness.

I know in other countries it's supposedly 1-2 days after. I wonder did Sky have an impact on it because I doubt I'll be waiting 14 days to watch the race/sessions haha!

(Currently based in Italy, and just checked and for there I can get them the next day which is much better, assumed with Sky here too it would be the same)

TCP/IP

Inviere wrote: »

So what’s the true cost per month then, for a basic package of channels that nobody wants, plus the one channel we do?

Basic pack is Sky Entertainment €24 a month for 12 months then you would have the Sky F1 addon. If you don't see value in it then don't get it. But we can't say its bad value. When the Sky contact with F1 is up for renewal in 2024.

Interesting article here - https://www.pitpass.com/61132/Can-F1-boss-Chase-Carey-help-renegotiate-Sky-TV-deal

Jordan 199

James Key to start at McLaren on the 25th of March.

Frank Bullitt

Wasn't there some online streaming plan that F1 had proposed? MotoGP do something similar.

Would help me at least, getting up at 4am to catch a race is poxy.

Adamocovic

Gintonious wrote: »

Wasn't there some online streaming plan that F1 had proposed? MotoGP do something similar.

Would help me at least, getting up at 4am to catch a race is poxy.

Yeah, we've a few posts on it. F1 Pro TV.

But due to the Sky Sports contract the live version isn't available in Ireland. (€50-99 in France and Germany for an annual subscription). There is the F1 TV Access for €25 for the year, which includes replays of sessions, live radio and live tracker however just discovered in Ireland the replays aren't available until 14 days after the session, compared to 24-48 hours for other countries.

Hopefully it will grow and in a couple of years can be used as an option, but Sky will probably nab up rights again.

chicorytip

Get the Sky Sports Mobile App @ 12.99 per month. Watch F1 on your phone. If your phone and Tv have screen mirroring features "cast" on to your big screen.

Adamocovic

chicorytip wrote: »

Get the Sky Sports Mobile App @ 12.99 per month. Watch F1 on your phone. If your phone and Tv have screen mirroring features "cast" on to your big screen.

Does that require a Sky Subscription to anything or just the standalone app?

TCP/IP

Adamocovic wrote: »

Does that require a Sky Subscription to anything or just the standalone app?

What about Now TV that is contract free and you could just get a day pass for the race.

NoBread

TCP/IP wrote: »

Basic pack is Sky Entertainment €24 a month for 12 months then you would have the Sky F1 addon. If you don't see value in it then don't get it. But we can't say its bad value. When the Sky contact with F1 is up for renewal in 2024.

Interesting article here - https://www.pitpass.com/61132/Can-F1-boss-Chase-Carey-help-renegotiate-Sky-TV-deal

It's terrible value. It was Free-to-air until only a couple of years ago. You can't just pay for F1, you need to get the horrendously poor value basic package too, which is a pure rip-off.
And then you have to listen to the Sky presenters. Brundle is the only one worth listening to. No thanks, I'm not made of money, I can't throw it at a billionaire corporation that has been ruining sport since the 90's. Even if I had it, I wouldn't.

TCP/IP

NoBread wrote: »

It's terrible value. It was Free-to-air until only a couple of years ago. You can't just pay for F1, you need to get the horrendously poor value basic package too, which is a pure rip-off.
And then you have to listen to the Sky presenters. Brundle is the only one worth listening to. No thanks, I'm not made of money, I can't throw it at a billionaire corporation that has been ruining sport since the 90's. Even if I had it, I wouldn't.

No problem don’t watch it then don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Or maybe use a Now TV day pass.

NoBread

TCP/IP wrote: »

What about Now TV that is contract free and you could just get a day pass for the race.

You have to sign up to it like Netflix before you can get the day pass. It's no longer free. There's no 12 month contract, but you do have to buy a regular 30-day pass, then the one day sports pass on top.