Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

eviltimeban

It's the same with the football though; if you want to watch the Premiership you have to have Sky Sports, right? Same with the golf.

The only reason I have Sky Digital is because I could get the F1 channel. Saying that, I've had no issues with Sky as a service or channel. Well a few here and there but was more to do with the hardware.

I like the Sky F1 coverage, I just don't have the time anymore to watch it all - qualifying pre-show, then qualifying, then the after show stuff like the notebook, then race day - free practice sessions, pre-show, the race, post-show etc. It's three full days of TV really. The team is good but I'd just prefer if "Crofty" was less jocular.

I do think there should be the option to just switch on the race for free. I remember back in the day the BBC coverage would start about 15 minutes before race start.

Anjobe

eviltimeban wrote: »

I do think there should be the option to just switch on the race for free.

Unfortunately, the whole point of exclusivity from Sky's point of view is to increase subscriptions, so they will not undermine that by making races available for free. This strategy has worked well for them with football, cricket, golf etc.

eviltimeban

Anyone watch the Netflix doc yet?

pjohnson

1pt for fastest lap confirmed.

skipper_G

eviltimeban wrote: »

Anyone watch the Netflix doc yet?

Not finished it yet but first impressions are really good. It offered more real conversations in one episode than a decade of the standard media garbage. But two teams in particular are conspicuous by their lack of involvement which is definitely a negative

Charlie-Bravo

eviltimeban wrote: »

Anyone watch the Netflix doc yet?

What is it called? I'll check it out later.

skipper_G

astrofluff wrote: »

What is it called? I'll check it out later.

Formula 1 Drive to Survive

eviltimeban

skipper_G wrote: »

Not finished it yet but first impressions are really good. It offered more real conversations in one episode than a decade of the standard media garbage. But two teams in particular are conspicuous by their lack of involvement which is definitely a negative

I think Ferrari are in it toward the end.

donspeekinglesh

pjohnson wrote: »

1pt for fastest lap confirmed.

Glad I won't be watching this year. I HATE the idea of points for anything other than finishing position. (And yes, if I was watching 60 years ago if have been complaining then too). Stupid gimmick, even worse than DRS.

AMKC

ppn wrote: »

Who knows but by the time that Sky deal and exclusivity ends, which Liberty has said it will not allow to happen again, the next generation will be totally immersed in that dreadful Formula E. IMO I don't think FE will ever be a replacement for F1, for the purist anyway. If people complain about the noise of F1 cars now, which is still impressive, what will they say if/when FE takes over from F1. This Sky thing is a huge blow for future F1 support. Hopefully its not the beginning of the end. Its sickening, who can justify €210 for 21 races or whatever the special deal is (>€150?) on top of their existing tv package...

the next generation will be totally immersed in that dreadful Formula E.

I do not think Formula e is dreadful it is the future for cars weather we like it or not.
Its helping to develop that technology at a faster rate and has a lot of manufactures interested and involved in it. They are lining up to get in unlike Formula 1.
However I do not think you need to worry about it taking all of the next generation as it has kind of shot itself in the foot before it has even got too running by making itself harder to watch. Like F1 now must of it is only viewable by highlights which is silly for a sport that is only getting started and trying to get fans interested. He can be viewed live on the BBC red button but not easily.

Inviere

pjohnson wrote: »

1pt for fastest lap confirmed.

So queue half the grid pitting on the penultimate lap for fresh tires in order to try get fastest lap at the very end. Stupid idea.

mickdw

Inviere wrote: »

pjohnson wrote: »

1pt for fastest lap confirmed.

So queue half the grid pitting on the penultimate lap for fresh tires in order to try get fastest lap at the very end. Stupid idea.

I think it might work.
People with no hope of points will surely pit near the end. Could spice up the back markers race.
Plus someone running 14 or 15th might suddenly find themselves on the edge of the points if they don't pit.
Front runners could also get opportunity to pit and you never know, that can go wrong too.
I'm all for anything that mixes things up.

skipper_G

Inviere wrote: »

So queue half the grid pitting on the penultimate lap for fresh tires in order to try get fastest lap at the very end. Stupid idea.

The point is only awarded if the person is in the top 10, so somebody at the back can't just slap on new tyres and go for glory. Won't stop the front times trying if they have a big enough gap back to the midfield.

I'll wait to see what impact if any it has before I make my mind up. My gut instinct is it's a bit gimmicky.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

The point for the fastest lap scenario will probably be as good as the double points at the final race a few years ago.

recyclebin

Should offer an extra point for pole position instead.

mickdw

skipper_G wrote: »

Inviere wrote: »

So queue half the grid pitting on the penultimate lap for fresh tires in order to try get fastest lap at the very end. Stupid idea.

The point is only awarded if the person is in the top 10, so somebody at the back can't just slap on new tyres and go for glory. Won't stop the front times trying if they have a big enough gap back to the midfield.

I'll wait to see what impact if any it has before I make my mind up. My gut instinct is it's a bit gimmicky.

Ah it's crap if it's not open to all.
Points could make a huge difference to the teams at the back. This is only going to further separate the top teams from the back markers.

dublinman1990

recyclebin wrote: »

Should offer an extra point for pole position instead.

If that was allowed instead; I could assume that Mercedes could hoover up all of those points up between their own drivers & for the constructors for most of this seasons & subsequent seasons if it was still kept after it's first year. If Ferrari had taken some of those points during this season; Would it make much of a difference to their season especially now that LeClerc is paired up with Vettel? If the fans don't prefer to have that advantage for pole position. Other options like including it for the fastest lap should be more fairer for the drivers of other teams to gain themselves some extra points in the race.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

Reverse grids, the 2 Mercedes starting at the back would be a great time.

skipper_G

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

Reverse grids, the 2 Mercedes starting at the back would be a great time.

Are you seriously suggesting that reverse grids would be good or is it just hyperbole?

pjohnson

Apparently the only time this would have had an impact was in 2008. Felipe Massa would have actually beaten IS THAT GLOCK Hamilton.

flazio

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

Reverse grids, the 2 Mercedes starting at the back would be a great time.

But then, who would bother trying to be fastest in qualifying if the reward is to be sent to the back.

Cool_CM

FP1 next Friday!!!

Inviere

skipper_G wrote: »

The point is only awarded if the person is in the top 10, so somebody at the back can't just slap on new tyres and go for glory. Won't stop the front times trying if they have a big enough gap back to the midfield.

I'll wait to see what impact if any it has before I make my mind up. My gut instinct is it's a bit gimmicky.

Ah, top ten only....that’s even worse as said, it’ll only widen the gap and make things even more difficult for struggling teams.

pyramuid man

skipper_G wrote: »

The point is only awarded if the person is in the top 10, so somebody at the back can't just slap on new tyres and go for glory. Won't stop the front times trying if they have a big enough gap back to the midfield.

I'll wait to see what impact if any it has before I make my mind up. My gut instinct is it's a bit gimmicky.

I'm not a big fan of this is but it could well be used by the mid field to keep the gap lower. If a midfield team has a secure fifth or sixth place with a pit stop in hand, they change to a new pair of shorts and put in a qualy like low fuel lap to get the extra point.

Harika

If they learn it will only be for point finishers

pjohnson

Where did Magnussen finish in Sinapore last year? Iirc it was like 14th or did he move up while Sirotkin was defending from Perez and delaying cars? Cant remember if he pitted from damage before he set the fastest lap or was it strategy that he pitted late.

Jordan 199

pjohnson wrote: »

Where did Magnussen finish in Sinapore last year? Iirc it was like 14th or did he move up while Sirotkin was defending from Perez and delaying cars? Cant remember if he pitted from damage before he set the fastest lap or was it strategy that he pitted late.

Magnussen finished 18th.

skipper_G

Inviere wrote: »

Ah, top ten only....that’s even worse as said, it’ll only widen the gap and make things even more difficult for struggling teams.

I know what you're saying but think about this, there was a 297 point gap between 3rd & 4th last year. A few more points won't make any difference to the gap between the top 3 and the rest. If people are serious about helping struggling teams then only one fix works, change the revenue distribution model.

pjohnson

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Magnussen finished 18th.

Jaysus something clearly went títs up for him then :pac:

Dunno what I was thinking ha

skipper_G

On the topic of the Netflix show, I absolutely loved it and I think they could well suck in a few new fans on the back of it. It's not a season review if anyone is expecting that but each episode focuses on a specific story. They use the artistic licence with a lot of the presentation (editing and audio in particular). Some of the more change resistant F1 fans will absolutely hate it, but that's normal. The one major criticism is the lack of involvement of Mercedes and Ferrari, although the latter is at least mentioned a few times in the later episodes.
Verdict: thumbs up from me

v3ttel

recyclebin wrote: »

Should offer an extra point for pole position instead.

Terrible, terrible idea.

Don't you think there is already enough incentive to get pole, without the need an extra point? Everyone wants pole to give themselves the best chance.

You could have a championship decided on a Saturday which would be a disaster. If there is one dominant car/driver, they championship would be decided even earlier.

muckwarrior

Point for fastest lap at least has the potential to spice up races just a little. Point for pole will do nothing but widen the gap to the dominant driver.

El_Duderino 09

Inviere wrote: »

pjohnson wrote: »

1pt for fastest lap confirmed.

So queue half the grid pitting on the penultimate lap for fresh tires in order to try get fastest lap at the very end. Stupid idea.

Yeah I think anyone from position 11 down will likely pit. I do t have a huge problem with it but it might be stupid if the guy in last place gets a point. But if he sets the fastest lap he deserves his point. If nothing else it will likely add some excitement to the last few laps.

Edit I see the fastest lap point is OK n k y awarded if the driver finishes in the top 10. I'm fine with that.

flazio

muckwarrior wrote: »

Point for fastest lap at least has the potential to spice up races just a little. Point for pole will do nothing but widen the gap to the dominant driver.

Which happens to be Lewis Hamilton at the minute. He doesn't need any extra help to be dominate so let's not give him any.
I believe the fastest lap bonus point only going to a driver in the top 10 is based on an incident from Formula E where at the last race the two championship leaders tied on points in the last race, took themselves out of the race and tried to get the bonus point while everyone else was running a race.

ayux4rj6zql2ph

skipper_G wrote: »

Are you seriously suggesting that reverse grids would be good or is it just hyperbole?

flazio wrote: »

But then, who would bother trying to be fastest in qualifying if the reward is to be sent to the back.

Right so, how about bonus points for drivers outside the top 3 teams of the previous year who score a pole position? It has happened before.

Didn't a system run whereby teams outside the top 3 or 4 could run an extra drivers on Friday's?

Charlie-Bravo

Just finished ep2 of Drive to Survive. A must watch featuring Alonso and Sainz during the Baku and Spanish GPs.

pjohnson

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

Right
Didn't a system run whereby teams outside the top 3 or 4 could run an extra drivers on Friday's?

That was from 02 - 05 I believe.

Anjobe

astrofluff wrote: »

Just finished ep2 of Drive to Survive. A must watch featuring Alonso and Sainz during the Baku and Spanish GPs.

Yes, really enjoying this. I think it is the better for Mercedes and Ferrari not being involved, there was enough focus on them during the season and its good to hear the stories from the other teams. Guenther Steiner's phone call with Gene Haas after Melbourne and Christian Horner and Cyril Abiteboul fencing over Red Bull ditching the Renault engines and Daniel Ricciardo's move have been particular highlights so far.

skipper_G

Peyton Lively Tiller wrote: »

Right so, how about bonus points for drivers outside the top 3 teams of the previous year who score a pole position? It has happened before.

Didn't a system run whereby teams outside the top 3 or 4 could run an extra drivers on Friday's?

I don't know, sounds even more gimmicky than a point for fastest lap to me. Whether it would have any impact at all is another thing, when was the last time a driver from outside the top 3 teams scored a pole, Massa in 2014?

Cool_CM

Anjobe wrote: »

Yes, really enjoying this. I think it is the better for Mercedes and Ferrari not being involved, there was enough focus on them during the season and its good to hear the stories from the other teams. Guenther Steiner's phone call with Gene Haas after Melbourne and Christian Horner and Cyril Abiteboul fencing over Red Bull ditching the Renault engines and Daniel Ricciardo's move have been particular highlights so far.

I'm really enjoying it, excellent way to get ready for next week. Horner comes across as a complete knob, Steiner is hilarious!

Cookie_Monster

If you are going to watch Melbourne I highly suggest you try and watch / record the v8 supercars race as well if you can. It's top notch racing!

johnnysmack

The Netflix doc could really do without the talking head journalists and overdubbed commentary. They had enough good and compelling viewing as it is. Gunther Steiner is such a hero in it haha!

H3llR4iser

The extra point for the fastest lap can ruin a championship; In a series where tire condition is worth seconds per lap, pitstops only cause a driver to lose 20-30 seconds in total and teams have "sacrifical lamb" drivers, well, it can and WILL be abused.

Example - let's say there IS 1 point for the FL, it's the final race of the season and we have this scoreboard:

Lewis Hamilton - 330pts, 9 race wins;
Sebastian Vettel - 323pts, 7 race wins;

Vettel is leading the race by 15 seconds with 3 laps to go, Hamilton is 2nd; Seb has been in a class of his own the whole week end - claimed pole, led every lap and Lewis simply has no answer for the pace; Vettel also currently holds the fastest lap. Should the race finish like this, we'd have:

Sebastian Vettel - 349pts (323+25+1), 8 race wins;
Lewis Hamilton - 348pts (330+18), 9 race wins;

Vettel is WDC; But....say, two laps from the finish Mercedes pit Bottas for fresh supersoft tires; He loses 3rd place to Leclerc, but marks the fastest lap of the race on the final lap. The championship ends like this:

Lewis Hamilton - 348pts (330+18), 9 race wins;
Sebastian Vettel - 348pts (323+25), 8 race wins;

Team games are already infuriating enough when they involve positions, I'm fairly sure we don't need this additional scenario...

Rossi IRL

H3llR4iser wrote: »

...

Sure Ferrari could do the same the race before and take the fastest lap away from Hamilton with Leclerc.

I don't like the idea myself with an extra point but if it's in then all teams will try take advantage of it whatever way they can. It won't be any more valuable to Mercedes than it will be to Ferrari. Both will do all they can to gain advantage.

I kind of like the team games this will cause, although I'm not in favour of the extra points.

eviltimeban

H3llR4iser wrote: »

The extra point for the fastest lap can ruin a championship; In a series where tire condition is worth seconds per lap, pitstops only cause a driver to lose 20-30 seconds in total and teams have "sacrifical lamb" drivers, well, it can and WILL be abused.

Example - let's say there IS 1 point for the FL, it's the final race of the season and we have this scoreboard:

[snip]

I don't know, it sounds like a good strategic move to me! If they knew that Vettel had a one point margin. And if Bottas was willing to dump his own result just to get a fastest lap.

pjohnson

Also need to consider if Red Bull/Renault are tight in constructors or even Haas/Alfa Romeo/Racing Point. They could call in their drivers aswell to chase the fastest lap point. Its not exclusive to Ferrari/Mercedes. And if Ferrari/Merc are pulling in Leclerc/Bottas solely to chase fastest lap that will then only elevate the track position and point haul of Ricciardo/Verstappen.

Will teams throw away a 4th place finish (12pts) to take say 6th + fastest lap (9 pts).

Hell that scenario of Vettel/Hamilton could be poised to play out and both Leclerc and Bottas get called in only for Verstappen to suddenly set the fastest lap.

mickdw

They need to make this available to everyone right down the grid.

Rossi IRL

mickdw wrote: »

They need to make this available to everyone right down the grid.

And only make it available to cars that finish the race within a certain number of laps to the leader.

mickdw

Rossi IRL wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

They need to make this available to everyone right down the grid.

And only make it available to cars that finish the race within a certain number of laps to the leader.

Good point as it certainly should restrict anything that might be done to produce a car that would just target the fastest lap as opposed to the full race.
As proposed, with only top 10 benefiting, how silly will it look if someone in 15th gets fastest lap.

pjohnson

Rossi IRL wrote: »

And only make it available to cars that finish the race within a certain number of laps to the leader.

You only get classified if you complete 90% of the race distance.

I only remember a car finishing unclassified once in recent times and think it was a Marussia/Caterham was lapped 8 or 9 times.