Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

meeeeh

Comebacks after few years are hard even for healthy top drivers (unless anyone believes Rosberg was a better driver than Schumacher). I think there was a bit more fuss around Kubica even when he was racing first time but he is fairly poor this time. I was hoping he will do well but it's nit working out.

Faugheen

1.3 seconds to Russell this time, when the car looks more competitive too.

What's the excuse this time?

Dont be at yourself

Kubica's lack of pace wasn't a worry so long as Russell was P19, but if he's regularly challenging for Q2, it's got to put Kubica under pressure.

El_Duderino 09

Faugheen wrote: »

1.3 seconds to Russell this time, when the car looks more competitive too.

What's the excuse this time?

Needs a go in the Mercedes?
Can’t compare because the car isn’t good enough?
He has a disability and he’s better on paper (without the disability obviously).

Great performance from Russell though.

I’d love if Williams actually catch up to the mid field

Cork Trucker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Needs a go in the Mercedes?
Can’t compare because the car isn’t good enough?
He has a disability and he’s better on paper (without the disability obviously).

Great performance from Russell though.

I’d love if Williams actually catch up to the mid field

The only comparison i can make for a similar legitimate gap is Monaco 1988 when Senna was 1.5 seconds faster than Prost unless Alonso did it in the 2001 Minardi?

Russell looks like starting P15 tomorrow as i expect Giovinazzi will be penalised for blocking Stroll

pjohnson

Faugheen wrote: »

1.3 seconds to Russell this time, when the car looks more competitive too.

What's the excuse this time?

Extremely controversial but maybe just maybe it means that Russell is actually a very good driver?

People are that busy fetishising Kubica being the worst driver ever that they cant seem to realise Russell is actually good. Minds will be blown next year :pac:


I wonder were Alonso and Webber recognised for their own achievements back in their Minardi's or just constantly compared to their teammates.

Cork Trucker

pjohnson wrote: »

Extremely controversial but maybe just maybe it means that Russell is actually a very good driver?

People are that busy fetishising Kubica being the worst driver ever that they cant seem to realise Russell is actually good. Minds will be blown next year :pac:


I wonder were Alonso and Webber recognised for their own achievements back in their Minardi's or just constantly compared to their teammates.

2 things i clearly remember about Webber in the Minardi, they both happened on his debut at his home race in 2002, passing Coulthard's (somewhat sick) Mclaren and the way Salo reeled him in during Toyota's first F1 race but spun, P5 then was like a race victory especially when they were such a small team and it was the final season that offered points down to 6th place. Alonso was in a different league to his Minardi teammates, anyone remember the 2001 Japanese gp? 53 laps of qualifying he did in that car.

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

Extremely controversial but maybe just maybe it means that Russell is actually a very good driver?

People are that busy fetishising Kubica being the worst driver ever that they cant seem to realise Russell is actually good. Minds will be blown next year :pac:


I wonder were Alonso and Webber recognised for their own achievements back in their Minardi's or just constantly compared to their teammates.

Russell might be a great driver but we don’t know yet because we don’t have enough info. The only driver he competes with is Kubica. We don’t have to decide he’s brilliant right now. We can wait until we actually see how he performs over time and against a broad range of drivers.

Declaring him brilliant seems like another desperate attempt to make Kubica look good by saying he’s being outperformed by a great driver.

Webber and Alonso were given great credit for outperforming their teammate in minardi. They both scored points early on so that gave them additional credibility. But it’s fine to only give them credit for what they had achieved at that time. What’s the alternator? Give them credit for things they hadn’t achieved yet?

Cork Trucker

Time for the F1 lads to brush up on their skills, this is just sickening :eek:

https://twitter.com/MotoGP/status/1157594538476736514

chicorytip

Dont be at yourself wrote:

Kubica's lack of pace wasn't a worry so long as Russell was P19, but if he's regularly challenging for Q2, it's got to put Kubica under pressure.

The Q1 result for Russell yesterday was an aberration because of the abortive final runs of both Magnussen and Ricciardo. Under normal circumstances both are half a second quicker. P 19 again for George today, I expect. He has the look of a top driver alright with the potential to be better than his peers Leclerc, Norris and Albon but not in the same league as Verstappen.

chicorytip

Dont be at yourself wrote:

Kubica's lack of pace wasn't a worry so long as Russell was P19, but if he's regularly challenging for Q2, it's got to put Kubica under pressure.

Brundle made a point yesterday that Kubica looked to him as not being confident enough to drive the car to it's absolute limit using every available inch of the racetrack - "wringing the neck out of it", as they say. He may improve in this regard. I would keep him and Russell for next year. Williams appears to be on a gradual upward curve and he brings a chunk of money in sponsorship which should not be discounted. The list of potential replacements appears a short one at present.

Charlie-Bravo

I think people are discrediting Russell too much based on how the lower qualifiers performed. The real fact is that Russell was only 0.050s from the Haas in 15th and closer to others above than usual. Also, Russell was 1.2 secs off the 1st place time, with Kubica 2.5secs off 1st place.

I think it's time to realise that finally Williams are making gains. This is a huge step for them, and it's the guts of a second to be fair.

pjohnson

astrofluff wrote: »

I think people are discrediting Russell too much based on how the lower qualifiers performed.

Agreed.

El_Duderino 09

astrofluff wrote: »

I think people are discrediting Russell too much based on how the lower qualifiers performed. The real fact is that Russell was only 0.050s from the Haas in 15th and closer to others above than usual. Also, Russell was 1.2 secs off the 1st place time, with Kubica 2.5secs off 1st place.

I think it's time to realise that finally Williams are making gains. This is a huge step for them, and it's the guts of a second to be fair.

What do you mean people are discrediting Russell? I hear nothing but good things about him from his speed and dedication, to his laid back and up beat manner out of the car. He could be a great but we'll have to wait and see how fast he is against more than one opponent.

I'm optimistic about him, but not willing to get carried away just to make kubica seem better by proxy.

recyclebin

So do you think Wolff is going to bite the bullet and go for Ocon to replace Bottas next season? Bottas is having a bad run of late, a bit like Vettel was having but I don't see Ocon being a step up. He would be a like for like replacement.

Red Bull needs to replace Gasly next season too if they want any chance of constructors or drivers. Max can't do it all on his own. They don't have many better options and it would risky promoting either of the Toro Rosso drivers. Maybe they could take a punt on Bottas. Perez would be another solid number two option if they wanted to go poaching other drivers.

Harika

recyclebin wrote: »

Red Bull needs to replace Gasly next season too if they want any chance of constructors or drivers. Max can't do it all on his own. They don't have many better options and it would risky promoting either of the Toro Rosso drivers. Maybe they could take a punt on Bottas. Perez would be another solid number two option if they wanted to go poaching other drivers.

They tend to pick red bull people so vettel or sainz might be in the running. Perez will stay at racing point

Inquitus

recyclebin wrote: »

So do you think Wolff is going to bite the bullet and go for Ocon to replace Bottas next season? Bottas is having a bad run of late, a bit like Vettel was having but I don't see Ocon being a step up. He would be a like for like replacement.

Red Bull needs to replace Gasly next season too if they want any chance of constructors or drivers. Max can't do it all on his own. They don't have many better options and it would risky promoting either of the Toro Rosso drivers. Maybe they could take a punt on Bottas. Perez would be another solid number two option if they wanted to go poaching other drivers.

Harika wrote: »

They tend to pick red bull people so vettel or sainz might be in the running. Perez will stay at racing point

I think Gasly is far more vulnerable than Bottas. Bottas has outqualified Hamilton on a few occasions, and bad luck aside has been a lot closer to Hamilton than Gasly has been to Max. 8 tenths in Q3 behind Max was a travesty for 2 drivers in the same car and in race pace the gap is just as bad. If Bottas steadies the ship and avoids the bad luck he's been having he's a worthy Merc #2. Ocon however is a great prospect.

Gasly has simply been muck and I would offload him over the Summer Break and bring in anyone they have in their stable who could make the switch, whoever is chosen would be an improvement!

mickdw

chicorytip wrote: »

Dont be at yourself wrote:

Kubica's lack of pace wasn't a worry so long as Russell was P19, but if he's regularly challenging for Q2, it's got to put Kubica under pressure.

Brundle made a point yesterday that Kubica looked to him as not being confident enough to drive the car to it's absolute limit using every available inch of the racetrack - "wringing the neck out of it", as they say. He may improve in this regard. I would keep him and Russell for next year. Williams appears to be on a gradual upward curve and he brings a chunk of money in sponsorship which should not be discounted. The list of potential replacements appears a short one at present.

I think that comment was generally compared to the other drivers in the more sorted cars. More a reflection of the Williams car at the minute than kubica being unable to get the best out of it.
That being said, Kubica has been a terrible disappointment. He is nowhere near on the pace and at this stage. I don't believe he is getting different machinery to Russell either.

pjohnson

I dunno if they'll rush Albon up after what has happened to Gasly this year. Kvyat is the steadier more experienced head and seems calmer now to partner Max if they pull the trigger. Then either Gasly demoted back to Toro Rosso or Buemi back in F1 with Toro Rosso till season end now FE is over? Buemi is the only RB affiliated driver now that has the license needed afaik. Ticktum is released and didn't have the license anyway despite all the chances, Gelael and Dennis dont have one either afaik.

Maybe Vergne, other than him and Buemi I cant think any other unattached driver that would be eligible.

Infoanon

Gasly is safe but Marko calls the shots so who knows.

Alban is being pushed bt the UK media,Kvyat would be a surprise promotion while Ticktum is gone and Sainz will not be teamed with Max.

All the effort is going into the Mexican driver Patrice O Ward but he does not have a superlicense.

At this moment I don't see any changes until O Ward has the superlicense

Inquitus

Infoanon wrote: »

Gasly is safe but Marko calls the shots so who knows.

Why is Gasly safe? He has been the biggest disappointment by far of any of the drivers in a half decent car, miles off the pace of his colleague Verstappen both in qualifying, and in race pace, having been lapped in races on a number of occasions by Max, including today. Kubica is the only other driver on the grid who is as far behind his teammate and he's practically paying to drive the car. His performance is simply unacceptable, with someone half decent in the car Red Bull would in all likelyhood be 2nd in the Constructors championship.

the_pen_turner

only watching the c4 highlights now.
horner just said red bull is very happy with their MAIN driver. very odd
i cant see how they could be happy with gasly

Cork Trucker

I'm giving up faith in Kubica after today, 3 laps down and lapped by Russell.

Joeface

They cannot really change drivers . If they did it would have to be Kvyat , Albon is good in Toro Rosso just as Gasly was. It would be the same mistake. If they bring Kvyat up they would get more from the Redbull second car outta of him but he would eventually challenge Max at some of the tracks and Redbull do not want that head ache . It gets forgotten but Kvyat put the crap Redbull car on the podium and out scored Daniel Ric in his first season. He is a seriously good driver. Redbull just want Gasly to be a few seconds closer to the front and they may come in the second half of the season. They only need him to run out stop interference and keep the points coming. Summer break might help him.

chicorytip

recyclebin wrote:

So do you think Wolff is going to bite the bullet and go for Ocon to replace Bottas next season? Bottas is having a bad run of late, a bit like Vettel was having but I don't see Ocon being a step up. He would be a like for like replacement.

I don't think Ocon would really be up to the job either judging by his performances for Racing Point. He has been out for a year now which is disadvantageous. Russell looks a better bet. Bottas should leave Formula One entirely.

Dont be at yourself

Bottas and Gasly have surely sealed their fates now.

Impressed by Perez and Sainz. I know Sainz is tied down to McLaren next year, but if I were a top team, I'd definitely be looking at Perez. If McLaren can continue to get their **** together, their future is bright with Sainz and Norris too.

El_Duderino 09

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I'm giving up faith in Kubica after today, 3 laps down and lapped by Russell.

Today was a bad one and any single weekend can be an anomaly. It's the trend over the course of the season so far that should really be convincing. There have been 12 qualifying sessions and races. So far kubica has won 0 quality sessions and 2 races against his teammate.

weekaizer

So over halfway through the season and there’s a lot of pressure on bottas, gasly, grojean and kubica. All rightly so imo I think they are all very fortunate to still be in their seats. I can’t quite fathom why some questions aren’t being asked of Antonio Giovinazzi?.
The gap between him and Kimi is huge, Kimi p8 in standings with 31 points and giovinazzi p18 with just 1 point???. Kimi is carrying that team all season despite his age. Imo Kimi doesn’t get enough credit and equally giovinazzi hasn’t impressed me much at all. Ferrari have been a huge disappointment once again with their car that doesn’t suit most circuits and on the ones it did suit they imploded. Mclarens improvement to 4th best team is probably the biggest surprise for me this season, honestly didn’t see the orange cars up there for a few more seasons. Very little to separate the 2 drivers too which is good for them. We need Honda to start upping their game to try and make some sort of a challenge to Mercedes for second half of season, can’t help but think Ferrari might win 1 or 2 races maximum but after preseason hypes they have been thoroughly underwhelming. Hamilton is in a class of his own in the best car with one hand if not 2 already on the tittle. Largely disappointing season so far, reminds me of 2011 season, will probably be remembered for the 1 amazing wet race and a dominant driver running away with title. I just hope I’m wrong.

Infoanon

Gasly is safe because as of July 30th Marko has stated that there will be no changes at Red Bull for this season.

Infoanon

Gasly is safe because as of July 30th Marko has stated that there will be no changes at Red Bull for this season.

Jordan 199

Another sh!t result at the weekend for the Renault Team. I don't think they have a hope in hell of finishing fourth in the Constructors Championship this year.

Frank Bullitt

Infoanon wrote: »

Gasly is safe because as of July 30th Marko has stated that there will be no changes at Red Bull for this season.

Hmmmmm, taking Marko at his word...that's brave.

cherryghost

In a perfect world Gasly, Bottas, Kubica should not be driving in the cars they're in. Gasly likely ousted for Spa, I dont know where Infoanon got that Marko source from, there's multiple interviews just saying he's frustrated at no '2nd Max'. Having no rear gunners to help Max is a real pain in the hole. At least Bottas is there sometimes.

chicorytip

weekaizer wrote:

So over halfway through the season and there’s a lot of pressure on bottas, gasly, grojean and kubica. All rightly so imo I think they are all very fortunate to still be in their seats. I can’t quite fathom why some questions aren’t being asked of Antonio Giovinazzi?. The gap between him and Kimi is huge, Kimi p8 in standings with 31 points and giovinazzi p18 with just 1 point???. Kimi is carrying that team all season despite his age. Imo Kimi doesn’t get enough credit and equally giovinazzi hasn’t impressed me much at all. Ferrari have been a huge disappointment once again with their car that doesn’t suit most circuits and on the ones it did suit they imploded. Mclarens improvement to 4th best team is probably the biggest surprise for me this season, honestly didn’t see the orange cars up there for a few more seasons. Very little to separate the 2 drivers too which is good for them. We need Honda to start upping their game to try and make some sort of a challenge to Mercedes for second half of season, can’t help but think Ferrari might win 1 or 2 races maximum but after preseason hypes they have been thoroughly underwhelming. Hamilton is in a class of his own in the best car with one hand if not 2 already on the tittle. Largely disappointing season so far, reminds me of 2011 season, will probably be remembered for the 1 amazing wet race and a dominant driver running away with title. I just hope I’m wrong.

Kimi is doing just about enough which is what he's been doing for the past six seasons. Leclerc had more points at the same stage last year in an inferior car. Giovinazzi is Ferrari's man and they are hoping he'll come good and lead the team when Raikkonen finishes which could be this year.

Sonny noggs

chicorytip wrote: »

Kimi is doing just about enough which is what he's been doing for the past six seasons. Leclerc had more points at the same stage last year in an inferior car. Giovinazzi is Ferrari's man and they are hoping he'll come good and lead the team when Raikkonen finishes which could be this year.

Leclerc had 13 points after 14 races last season. Versus 31 for Raikkonen after 12 races so far this season.

weisses

cherryghost wrote: »

In a perfect world Gasly, Bottas, Kubica should not be driving in the cars they're in. Gasly likely ousted for Spa, I dont know where Infoanon got that Marko source from, there's multiple interviews just saying he's frustrated at no '2nd Max'. Having no rear gunners to help Max is a real pain in the hole. At least Bottas is there sometimes.

Simple google

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/marko-gasly-red-bull-kvyat/4503923/

vectra

chicorytip wrote: »

Kimi is doing just about enough which is what he's been doing for the past six seasons. Leclerc had more points at the same stage last year in an inferior car. Giovinazzi is Ferrari's man and they are hoping he'll come good and lead the team when Raikkonen finishes which could be this year.

Kimi is on a 2 year contract and as said above, if outshining what Charles did last year.
What makes you think it was down to last years car and this years car?
Have you not noticed the difference in midfield teams in both years?

AMKC

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Another sh!t result at the weekend for the Renault Team. I don't think they have a hope in hell of finishing fourth in the Constructors Championship this year.

It is very disappointing from Renault alright. I think they will get it hard to keep fifth this year never mind fourth. They were fourth last year but it looks like they will be fifth or sixth this year. I would say if Daniel Ric had of known that Renault would go backwards this tear he might have stayed at Red Bull.

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

It is very disappointing from Renault alright. I think they will get it hard to keep fifth this year never mind fourth. They were fourth last year but it looks like they will be fifth or sixth this year. I would say if Daniel Ric had of known that Renault would go backwards this tear he might have stayed at Red Bull.

I'd say you're right. The Honda has come up to scratch. It's at least as good as the Renault and reliable too. Considering that the engine is as good, it was really u likely that Renault car would be as good as red bull - and it isn't even close is speed, let alone reliability.

His move away from red bull was a calculated on the fact that red bull would favour Max so he would never win a WC at Red bull. Merc and ferrari both have development drivers coming through. So he had few options: stay and fight against max and red bull, go to mclaren, go to Renault (who are paying him around $10 a year). He chose Renault which had a low chance of making him WC but probably higher than his chances of winning than at RB because they would treat him as no2 to max.

pjohnson

Kubica's mirror fell off for a 4th time this season mid-race yesterday, Russell lost his once in Spain.

Why arent the FIA calling Williams on this? Is it not considered dangerous if a driver has only one mirror like they cant see cars behind them then there would be a blind spot?

And why the hell cant Williams properly attach the mirror in the first place.

Cork Trucker

pjohnson wrote: »

Kubica's mirror fell off for a 4th time this season mid-race yesterday, Russell lost his once in Spain.

Why arent the FIA calling Williams on this? Is it not considered dangerous if a driver has only one mirror like they cant see cars behind them then there would be a blind spot?

And why the hell cant Williams properly attach the mirror in the first place.

Was Spain not where Russell raced in Kubica's chassis?

El_Duderino 09

pjohnson wrote: »

Kubica's mirror fell off for a 4th time this season mid-race yesterday, Russell lost his once in Spain.

Why arent the FIA calling Williams on this? Is it not considered dangerous if a driver has only one mirror like they cant see cars behind them then there would be a blind spot?

And why the hell cant Williams properly attach the mirror in the first place.

Kubica never has anyone behind him but he's lapped so many times he should have 3 mirrors.

El_Duderino 09

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Was Spain not where Russell raced in Kubica's chassis?

I think so. But did they ever swap back or did they just determine there was no difference so they didn't swap back?

Cork Trucker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think so. But did they ever swap back or did they just determine there was no difference so they didn't swap back?

Yeah they swapped back for the following race AFAIK, if that's accurate then the same car has been affected 5 times.

Cork Trucker

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Kubica never has anyone behind him but he's lapped so many times he should have 3 mirrors.

If Kubica's "buddy" had his way there'd have been no mirrors at all, good oul JV

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/villeneuve-wants-wing-mirrors-out-of-f1-20030826-gdhafj.html

El_Duderino 09

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motorsport.com/f1/news/russell-kubica-williams-chassis-swap/4385285/amp/

According to this article, kubica was dur to get a new chassis in Spain. Then Russell had the crash the previous race in loving a loose manhole Cover which damaged his chassis. So he used the grand new chassis in Baku and kubica uses it from then on.

pjohnson

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Kubica never has anyone behind him but he's lapped so many times he should have 3 mirrors.

Predictable :pac:


Bants aside is this not a problem if the team still cant build a bloody car?

pjohnson

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motorsport.com/f1/news/russell-kubica-williams-chassis-swap/4385285/amp/

According to this article, kubica was dur to get a new chassis in Spain. Then Russell had the crash the previous race in loving a loose manhole Cover which damaged his chassis. So he used the grand new chassis in Baku and kubica uses it from then on.

Both Williams have had major upgrades since Germany so basically both are new by now completely revised covers. They just cant seem to assemble the blooming things which I would have thought would be a pretty basic requirement?

Cork Trucker

pjohnson wrote: »

Both Williams have had major upgrades since Germany so basically both are new by now completely revised covers. They just cant seem to assemble the blooming things which I would have thought would be a pretty basic requirement?

Don't the FIA do scrutineering at every race? LeClerc's car was checked over by the FIA at the weekend after his qualifying accident, surely the Williams are checked as well.

El_Duderino 09

Cork Trucker wrote: »

If Kubica's "buddy" had his way there'd have been no mirrors at all, good oul JV

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/villeneuve-wants-wing-mirrors-out-of-f1-20030826-gdhafj.html

He's quite a character. I always thought he just said mad stuff to stay relevant. But Joe Saward says he just has a different outlook and says it as he sees it.

Can you imagine the chaos without mirrors? Might spice things up though.