EI staff stealing says boss

Mebuntu

Well, Boards is a very revealing place.

So far over the past 6 months or so we've heard EI insiders reporting:

1. Pilot shortages

2. mechanic shortages

3. TransAtlantic chaos with flights being cancelled, delays, aircraft being "robbed" from Shannon to work DUB routes, third-party aircraft having to be hired in.

Now, we have

4. Alleged staff pilfering of "millions" from both the airline and its passengers and extra CCTV/security staff having to be employed to combat it.

5. A "toxic work environment".

What's next?

I would be very surprised if the identities of at least some of the "pilferers" are not known to honest staff members so where are the whistleblowers? Should the honest staff not be doing their utmost to root out those who blacken their names? or would that be against their "principles"?

Sounds altogether like utter shambles and some people thought EI being sold to IAG was a good idea!!

Locker10a

Mebuntu wrote: »

Well, Boards is a very revealing place.

So far over the past 6 months or so we've heard EI insiders reporting:

1. Pilot shortages

2. mechanic shortages

3. TransAtlantic chaos with flights being cancelled, delays, aircraft being "robbed" from Shannon to work DUB routes, third-party aircraft having to be hired in.

Now, we have

4. Alleged staff pilfering of "millions" from both the airline and its passengers and extra CCTV/security staff having to be employed to combat it.

5. A "toxic work environment".

What's next?

I would be very surprised if the identities of at least some of the "pilferers" are not known to honest staff members so where are the whistleblowers? Should the honest staff not be doing their utmost to root out those who blacken their names? or would that be against their "principles"?

Sounds altogether like utter shambles and some people thought EI being sold to IAG was a good idea!!

The failinings of EI management have long preceded a sale to IAG, there’s been many toxic phases between top level management and the rest of the staff in the past.
A good CEO and pregeesive management team would iron these things out. At EI things are let go in the name of cost savings until it’s a much bigger issue than it ever should have been, the pilot and mechanics shortage is a great example, as is staff stealing that’s was allowed to go on into the millions before a bitter COO ran to the news papers to point the finger at everyone but himself

Mebuntu

Locker10a wrote: »

as is staff stealing that’s was allowed to go on into the millions before a bitter COO ran to the news papers to point the finger at everyone but himself

With respect, in respect of staff stealing from their employer and the passengers, the only ones who can have fingers pointed at them is the staff who are doing the stealing (regardless of any low esteem the management may be held in).

NSAman

Can you honestly say that you have never gotten a few bottles of Champagne on a flight from a friend who was an Air Hostess ???

kona

If i was a manager and knew that I could be looking at multiple sections of my company engaging in industrial action, id probably leak a bit of crap to the rags to make my staff look bad to minimise any public sympathy for the staff.

Mebuntu

NSAman wrote: »

Can you honestly say that you have never gotten a few bottles of Champagne on a flight from a friend who was an Air Hostess ???

If you are addressing that question to me the answer is no I have not -ever.

archer22

Why would anybody doing an honest diligent days work be in any way bothered about CCTV camera's

Loads of people at work are on CCTV all day.
I never heard of any right to privacy at your place of employment.

ASOT

NSAman wrote: »

Can you honestly say that you have never gotten a few bottles of Champagne on a flight from a friend who was an Air Hostess ???

Just thinking about the amount of times I/Friends have been looked after, it'd be over 10 anyway.

Also happens on Ryanair not just AerLingus.

Noxegon

archer22 wrote: »

Why would anybody doing an honest diligent days work be in any way bothered about CCTV camera's

For me it's about trust.

If I know that my employer trusts me, then I will go above and beyond to do my job to the very best of my ability.

If an employer is constantly looking over my shoulder then I will not be inclined to do that.

Locker10a

NSAman wrote: »

Can you honestly say that you have never gotten a few bottles of Champagne on a flight from a friend who was an Air Hostess ???

I don’t think that’s the issue here, I don’t think this is related to cabin crew at all, I feel like the issues are staff working below the wing of that makes sense.

Kevski

Noxegon wrote: »

For me it's about trust.

If I know that my employer trusts me, then I will go above and beyond to do my job to the very best of my ability.

If an employer is constantly looking over my shoulder then I will not be inclined to do that.

But you can hardly expect your employer to have trust if there’s millions of euro worth of goods being stolen, can you? Unless someone comes forwards with information then I don’t see another way for the employer to get to the bottom of things.

Mebuntu

kona wrote: »

If i was a manager and knew that I could be looking at multiple sections of my company engaging in industrial action, id probably leak a bit of crap to the rags to make my staff look bad to minimise any public sympathy for the staff.

Are you hinting/suggesting then that Aer Lingus staff are threatening to engage in wholesale industrial action?

NH2013

I think the outrage is less about the fact CCTV going in which anyone reasonable wouldn’t have an issue with if they weren’t causing trouble, it’s the fact it was sent out to the press and a picture painted that the problem is rife amongst staff in general. It paints the airline staff in poor light that something like that is broadcast out for all the country to read. I’m surprised any marketing department worth their salt let that be released to the press.

lintdrummer

I have a lot of questions about these claims, in excess of a million Euro in theft is an extraordinary amount. The claim is vague and no evidence has been provided. Over what time period are these thefts supposed to have happened? Where specifically is the bulk of the "value" of the theft supposed to have occurred?
Let's suppose that €1m of theft was observed over a period of a year. Let's also say that 30% of the million euro value was passenger belongings. That would require for example 300 instances of forgetful pax who left an item worth €1000 on an aircraft which was then found by a member of staff who was happy to risk stealing it. I find it hard to believe that valuables are being stolen from checked baggage either. In Dublin, the opportunity to access and steal from bags undetected just doesn't exist. We should also consider that 50% of the times where opportunity for such theft arises is at an outstation where non EI staff have access to the aircraft and passenger baggage.
If 50% of the value is then assumed to be from goods on the aircraft, that would lead us to the conclusion that, for example, almost 3500 Skagen watches (most expensive item in current boutique catalogue) were stolen. Or maybe 11,000 cartons of Johnny Blue, or some combination thereof. If that kind of stock was going unaccounted for surely someone would have noticed long before now and done something about it. That leaves us with €200,000 to account for. Maybe it's from office staff taking bic pens home by the van load. Or somebody is siphoning Jet A1 out of the wing tanks undetected and bringing it home for the oil tank.
To say I'm sceptical about these claims is an understatement. Why, if you have a reasonably accurate figure for how much was stolen would you not have a better idea where it's been stolen from? Why send a message that tars all staff with the same brush? And why send it to the media where it makes front page news on the paper sold on your aircraft?

Locker10a

Kevski wrote: »

But you can hardly expect your employer to have trust if there’s millions of euro worth of goods being stolen, can you? Unless someone comes forwards with information then I don’t see another way for the employer to get to the bottom of things.

But what manager worth his or her salt would let theft get into the millions before taking action ? This could have surly been nipped in the bud much much earlier and all done with by now in a professional manner

Bussywussy

A good few Irish Independents never turned up for their flights yesterday :-)

NSAman

Bussywussy wrote: »

A good few Irish Independents never turned up for their flights yesterday :-)

Were they suppose to vote in an EU debate?

milhous

I'm not sure if this type of thing they're talking about or how it would add up to over million nvm millions.

I've been away a gd few times this year, maybe 7 or 8 times and like most ppl I usually don't leave items behind me. However had the kids away twice, and with toddlers it's just madness especially getting off flights. Both times they were with me I left items behind, both items from 150-200. They have a website which is an external company that's supposed to do a sweep of the plane.. neither time was successful in getting the property back.

A few years ago I left something behind and aerlingus was in charge of holding their own stuff, they had a lost and found in arrivals and I got my stuff back.. I think having the external company leaves no accountability and someone is lifting the gear.

Jamie2k9

Bussywussy wrote: »

A good few Irish Independents never turned up for their flights yesterday :-)

Naughty staff still robbing the company of potential revenue this time

kravmaga

Surely regular stocking taking procedures would have flagged up a Theft problem a long time before AL announces millions of euro in stock has gone missing.

Security management process and procedures must be flawed if they have no proper checks and balances in place and have had to use the media to make such a shock announcement. Not good for morale Id say.

I worked up in the airport over 18 years ago and even back then there were theft issues in the cargo terminals and from the trolly carts and it was not members of the public taking the stock.

https://www.stocktaking.ie/10-ways-to-reduce-stock-losses-in-your-company/

Noxegon

Kevski wrote: »

But you can hardly expect your employer to have trust if there’s millions of euro worth of goods being stolen, can you? Unless someone comes forwards with information then I don’t see another way for the employer to get to the bottom of things.

For clarity, I wasn't commenting on that.

I was commenting on the poster asking why anyone would be bothered by CCTV.

Stovepipe

The airport is already full of CCTV cameras but what has pissed people off about them was the manner in which management wanted to put them up in locker rooms and break rooms/canteens and the language they used implied that anyone who opposed CCTV was tolerating theft, which of course, is not the case. The newspaper stuff is heavy handed and clumsy, alienating and demoralising.

Tenger

Benjamin Rapping Gut wrote: »

There is not, and never has been, a module entitled "How to destroy a brand" as part of any program in DBS. There is not, and never has been, an MSc program entitled "Business and HR" in DBS.

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Come on, you made this up.

I will concede the point raised by Benjamin Rapping Gut. (not the accusation by Col Claptrap though)
I assume from the tone that you have personal knowledge of DBS, no harm correcting a mistaken claim.
My info is verbal and 2nd hand. Therefore could easily be wrong. Perhaps it was a Bsc, I’m not sure. The guy already had a degree, hence my thought that it was an MSc. The “module” in my recollection perhaps was a lecture or series of lectures. My memory is pretty vague as this chat was 10 years ago. I am going on the info given to me in my house over a brew about 10 years ago, by my mate of 5-8 years at the time.
We originally met while working in EI. When he did the course both of us had luseft EI. He did the course in DBS and later joined another airline.
I personally haven’t spoken to him in 6 months. However in saying that I stand by my post in that I do believe the story as recounted to me. As my mate was upset at the time about the content while agreeing with the premise.

Edit: just added context on my source before heading to work


And my personal opinion is that any large organisation will have issues with pilferage and stock discrepancies. I have to agree with lintdrummer on their argument for how the claim of "millions" can be backed up. Of course you are going to have 1-5% of staff being a bit klepto. One of the roles of a competent mgmt team is to identify pilferers and other employees working against the company.
However any decent company should have processes in place to monitor the losses and trap those individuals. I am wholly in favour of punitive procedures in place in any company to thwart such actions. No company can sustain long term deliberative wastage/pilferage. When I was in EI (15 years ago to honest) there was a sacking every 12-18 months from somewhere in the company relating to pilferage/theft.

With 4500 employees according to the Indo article, does this mean that 5% are stealing almost Eur4500 each per year? What type of incompetent manager allows this. Ive done my best to follow the EI financials over the last 5-8 years. Surely there public records would show "millions lost"?
Curently I work in a CCTV monitored area, personally I have no issue with it as I dont misbehave.

Jack1985

A number of points to make. To clarify and to make it abundantly clear now, nobody in Aer Lingus is defending theft and that includes unions, nobody in Aer Lingus in the same token is going to be walked over by the incompetent management team in place today using this deflection to implement over the top policies.

There have been managerial incidents of theft in EI, one involving company credit cards, but yet frontline staff took the blame on Sunday. The likes of the revolting Rutter do not (thankfully) greet passengers on a daily basis, his frontline staff do. Those same frontline staff were totally demoralized yesterday, Sunday's Independent was a blatant tarnishing of everyone's good name and character assassination at its finest. I read points of, ''a small percentage of staff'' the headline of the front of a national newspaper, displayed on board Aer Lingus aircraft in its lounges and online humiliated Aer Lingus staff at all grades and was designed to do so.

I mention all grades, many people in Aer Lingus are there so as a family. Relatives are shared across Cabin Crew, Flight Ops, Crew Control, Ground, Baggage, Catering, in Management.. I can go on but I'd be here a while. This is why everyone was outraged yesterday. The inboxes of management are being bombarded with emails from staff complaining of being defamed and having their names brought into disrepute owing to the COO of the company. Aer Lingus then issued a statement to RTE which did not back-track (although they changed their tack to immediately declare a small percentage of staff) and have YET to contact their employees since this has developed.

I firmly believe, this is an axe grinding job by a bitter man upset IAG didn't pick him for the CEO job, and management too self proud of the image they believe they hold can't admit a gross mistake bringing the internal politics of the company into the national media. Unions met with management yesterday morning, meetings were sporty. Hard working, brand ambassadors crucial to most companies were slapped in the face Sunday - Cabin Crew are refusing to sell papers, some do not want to sell revenue items they don't want their names attached to possible revenue discrepancies should they arise, Cabin Crew and Ground staff don't want to take bags off passengers at the gate after a correlation was made by Management with the loss of passengers belongings. This is absolutely shameful.

EI Management, sort the mess you have created.

Bussywussy

Jack1985 wrote: »

A number of points to make. To clarify and to make it abundantly clear now, nobody in Aer Lingus is defending theft and that includes unions, nobody in Aer Lingus in the same token is going to be walked over by the incompetent management team in place today using this deflection to implement over the top policies.

There have been managerial incidents of theft in EI, one involving company credit cards, but yet frontline staff took the blame on Sunday. The likes of the revolting Rutter do not (thankfully) greet passengers on a daily basis, his frontline staff do. Those same frontline staff were totally demoralized yesterday, Sunday's Independent was a blatant tarnishing of everyone's good name and character assassination at its finest. I read points of, ''a small percentage of staff'' the headline of the front of a national newspaper, displayed on board Aer Lingus aircraft in its lounges and online humiliated Aer Lingus staff at all grades and was designed to do so.

I mention all grades, many people in Aer Lingus are there so as a family. Relatives are shared across Cabin Crew, Flight Ops, Crew Control, Ground, Baggage, Catering, in Management.. I can go on but I'd be here a while. This is why everyone was outraged yesterday. The inboxes of management are being bombarded with emails from staff complaining of being defamed and having their names brought into disrepute owing to the COO of the company. Aer Lingus then issued a statement to RTE which did not back-track (although they changed their tack to immediately declare a small percentage of staff) and have YET to contact their employees since this has developed.

I firmly believe, this is an axe grinding job by a bitter man upset IAG didn't pick him for the CEO job, and management too self proud of the image they believe they hold can't admit a gross mistake bringing the internal politics of the company into the national media. Unions met with management yesterday morning, meetings were sporty. Hard working, brand ambassadors crucial to most companies were slapped in the face Sunday - Cabin Crew are refusing to sell papers, some do not want to sell revenue items they don't want their names attached to possible revenue discrepancies should they arise, Cabin Crew and Ground staff don't want to take bags off passengers at the gate after a correlation was made by Management with the loss of passengers belongings. This is absolutely shameful.

EI Management, sort the mess you have created.

Well said

zell12

Today's Indo

Henry Ford III

Jack1985 wrote: »

He settled with the woman and fled the country FFS !

Settled for what though? That report paints Rutter in a very bad light, but it's a newspaper report and nothing more.

Nobody here knows if he made any admission of liability, or paid a penny of compensation.

He returned, wasn't arrested as there was no arrest warrant and no charges against him, and subsequently got a very big job in Aer Lingus. Due diligence and background checks would have been carried out presumably?

So I think the public lynching here is possibly unfair.

Jack1985

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Settled for what though? That report paints Rutter in a very bad light, but it's a newspaper report and nothing more.

Nobody here knows if he made any admission of liability, or paid a penny of compensation.

He returned, wasn't arrested as there was no arrest warrant and no charges against him, and subsequently got a very big job in Aer Lingus. Due diligence and background checks would have been carried out presumably?

So I think the public lynching here is possibly unfair.

He worked a few more jobs before EI.

Last remark, please don't me laugh. :rolleyes:

Bussywussy

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Settled for what though? That report paints Rutter in a very bad light, but it's a newspaper report and nothing more.

Nobody here knows if he made any admission of liability, or paid a penny of compensation.

He returned, wasn't arrested as there was no arrest warrant and no charges against him, and subsequently got a very big job in Aer Lingus. Due diligence and background checks would have been carried out presumably?

So I think the public lynching here is possibly unfair.

There's a good few links if you bother to search where an internal company investigation also found him guilty of 8 counts of sexual discrimination and he did pay an undisclosed sum of money,that is guilty

If he's throwing mud at employees in newspapers I'm afraid he deserves whatever is dragged up that's already in the public domain

Henry Ford III

Jack1985 wrote: »

He worked a few more jobs before EI.

Last remark, please don't me laugh. :rolleyes:

So what? If he was that bad how did he secure any job, never mind several including the highest level at our national carrier?

Any links to support your claims are welcome btw.